Posted by zeugma on November 30, 2005, at 17:21:21
In reply to Re:, posted by alexandra_k on November 30, 2005, at 3:13:07
> and i don't know what i'm saying...
> i feel sad. fragile i guess.
> life is funny sometimes.
> funny strange not funny ha ha.
> and i wish i was a stronger person
> more resiliant
> could let things roll of my back
> could deal with things without letting them affect me so very much along the way
> could deal with things without going off along the way>>"What you depart from is not the way."-Ezra Pound, brilliant poet, though he went off the rails easily. He might have been quoting Lao Tzu or someone.
>
> but i guess thats just not the person i am
> though i wish it was
> i wish it was
>
> and i wish i didn't need people
> i fought that for so long
> i was determined
> i thought that was the way it was for everyone
> i guess i never really thought about it properly
> i thought i had to find myself before i was fit to be around people
> and so i isolated myself
> and one can't find oneself there
> one cannot
> and when people talk about that
> about how that is what you need to do
> then they do not understand what i mean by isolation
> because you cannot find yourself there you cannot
> and i see now that in a lot of ways i made things worse
> because like how sensory deprivation brings on hallucinations
> isolating yourself so much from people
> (not leaving the house for days...)
> brings on hallucinations
> and i guess i was making myself sicker
> and thought i was finding myself
> doing the right thing.
>
> snapping out of it a bit
> but still wary still wary
> and now i appreciate more how different life is
> life was for most people
> for other people
> and sometimes i hardly fit in
> like a human being
> because things were so very different for me in a lot of ways
> but then i suppose one can focus on difference
> and one can focus on similarities
> and i guess i'm human after all.
>i guess you are too :-) actually, i guess i am as well.
> i remember what the skills leaders said in dbt
> about how if there were no emotions then people wouldn't do anything...
> there wouldn't be any motivation...
> there wouldn't be any reason.
> a person wouldn't save a child from a burning building if there weren't any emotions
> but that is simply false.
> drives motivate but most often do not constitute emotions
> i don't have an emotion that motivates me to drink
> i have a drive of thurst
> and it isn't about having no emotions anyway...
> its about having no pain
> that is the point.
> and as for having pain...
> there is really no reason why pain has to feel so damned painful
> it could have been a little noise like an alarm clock and it would have functioned just as well
> there is no reason whatsoever for pain to hurt
> and there is no reason whatsoever for emotions to be painful
> it is just that they are.
> and i don't like it and you can have this back now thanks...>>
i have had NO good ex[eriences with therapy, with therapists. i have heard them tell me that what i was doing was wrong, that i was conceptualizing it incorrectly, etc. That was simply not true. People who have a professional stake in having insight often lose their abilities to perceive.
>
> but i suppose half the trouble is in thinking too much...
> over analysing...
> i probably talk myself into more than is good for me
> i probably think about things more than is good for me
> but...
> i guess its part of who i am
> and while i wish the pain would stop
> i don't really have the desire to think less
> i don't really have the desire to do more
> to join the gym
> to play a sport
> to find a hobby
> i guess these things just aren't important to me.
>why should they be? people inevitably are concerned with their own survival, and i suppose these hobbies help people who enjoy them survive, by making life more meaningful. others are more direct about it, and put a great stake in figuring things out for themselves. being a professional or even amateur thinker has its hazards as well. much as those whose profession is in providing insight lose the capacity to differentiate their own assesments of the situation from the situation itself. getting lost in thought has its dangers. but "What you depart from is not the way." >>
> i don't know what i'm saying.
> i feel flat
> i think i probably just need to...
> get some sleep.
>i know the feeling.
> but sometimes it does seem like i am split
> my head whirling in one direction
> dispassioned
> relentless
> and my emotions so very intense on the other
> i thought it was about that...
> i thought that was how i was supposed to master my emotions
> through logic
> through reason
> if emotions are responses to irrational thinking
> then the cure must be in rational thinking
> in logic
> so i learned logic
> i did
> and i learned (as best one can it is jolly hard)
> how to translate ordinary english into logic
> and problems...
> problems with indeterminacy of translation
> and indeterminacy of meaning
> and was this helping or missing the point?
> logic is the study of the structure of arguments
> is it illogical arguments that gets me into such an emotional state?
> missing the point...
>
> its not a matter of logic it is not
> and you can't conquer emotions via reason
> you cannot
> its in the indeterminacies
> the indeterminicies of translation
> between english and predicate calculus
> between the state of the world and ones description of the world in language or thought
>
> but the trouble with indeterminacy is that it is indeterminate
> and there isn't THE answer
> except that the problem was the pain
> the intense emotions
> and thus if it is those you want to change...
> you need to adopt the interpretation with the highest probablility of leaving one feeling okay...
> and while there is indeed an irreducible element of indeterminacy...
> there are reality constraints
> and one can't distort things too much
> well...
> not unless one is able to supress reality testing altogether...
> which one should probably not aim to do
> (and i've found i can't if i try so it is pointless thinking on it)
>
> and the answer...
>
> how can i live my life seeking the answer to the question 'what is wrong with me and what do i need to do to fix it?'
> but i am...ok, that is my life too. trying to fix what's broken. to use the metaphor that quine was fond of, i have been trying to fix the ship while out at sea. and that is not easy. and the moments when it seems easy are the most dangerous ones, because then the guard is down, vigilance is at its least, and the storm starts up again, and there isn't after all a ship that can last without constant fixing. but logic and language are constantly shifting, adaptations that keep us afloat (not things that fix the world forever). staying afloat, keeping language in contact with reality, terrifying tasks that keep the ship afloat.
> and i don't imagine i'll ever stop
> till its over
> and then the answer won't even matter anymore.well it's less a search for answers than a search for ways to stay afloat. but stopping is not a good thing. "What you depart from is not the way."
dear alexandrai am waterlogged
<<alexandra>>
-z
poster:zeugma
thread:575153
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/write/20051022/msgs/583803.html