Posted by alexandra_k on December 1, 2005, at 3:50:51
In reply to Re: » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on November 30, 2005, at 14:02:26
> Isolation yes - You can't find yourself in isolation. You need others like mirrors maybe. And maybe that's what therapy should be about at least for people who have been relationship deprived. But I think that's hard.
Yes. It is hard, because what will they mirror?
But maybe its about...
Keeping the emphasis.
Mirroring the helpful
Focusing on the helpful
Helping keep the perspective in check.
But...
I don't really know.> Both my husband and son were away for a week this summer and I actually did the stupid thing of taking a week off from work and staying in the house alone. I craved that time, I wanted it and yet I actually felt worse off.
Yes. I feel like that regarding my timetable. As an undergrad... And as a tutor... One has to get up in the morning. Because one has to make that class. But as a grad student (research not coursework) your timetable is entirely flexible. To start with... I was really very happy about that situation. Because sometimes... I really struggled to get up in the morning to make that class. But now I think... The flexibility is probably not so good for me. Because what do I do with that flexibility? I stay in bed and cry for several hours in a half sleep half wakeful state nearly every morning.
But there must be something...
Maybe it is about... Time to oneself... I think one does need time to oneself. To reflect. To write. But too much 'free time' can be destructive too... Hard to find the balance. Descartes shut himself away for... A year I think. And he wrote "Discourse on Method and the Meditations". Arguably... He worked himself up into a delusion that the existence of god + the veridicality of clear and distinct ideas was a foundational (indubitable) proposition... But I guess the point is he used that time productively. Wittgenstein did the same, I think... He went away to write the "Tractatus". Productivity... Rumination... Hard to know how much the rumination is harmful as opposed to helpful. But... It feels like something that I need to do...
> Yes, early in the week I was in the same place - this life is too much pain - I don't want it anymore. I want it over with already. Not that I was seriously contemplating suicide or anything but every day just felt like a another pain to endure, just something to manage to get through somehow or other.
Yes. I really think... I'm beyond suicide. Because I have tried... And failed. Countless times really. The most hurtful thing is people saying 'well then, you really didn't want to die because if you did you would have ensured it. You are smart enough to find the surest way etc etc'.
But...
Its more about a palitable way.
Pills.
Not so likely...
But it is hard to beat the notion that one might just fall into a dreamless sleep and remain there forever...
For me anyway.
And then...
My injuries. Snapped me out of the suicide buzz really. I'm not sure whether it is the fairly much constant physical pain or what... Maybe it is that. The physical pain distracts me. Allows me to distract myself by focusing on it. I guess it really brough home the thought that suicide (and more so with a failed attempt) is brutal. And that bodily damage... Bodily pain... Isn't something that seems desirable anymore. And there is a difference between... Well... I bite my nails most severely. Make them bleed even. That is different to getting a paper or knife cut, though. There always seemed to be something different about self inflicted pain (to be... thankful for) and accidental pain (more... alien and repulsive somehow). But now... I don't really get that difference anymore. Maybe the extent... Crushed feet. I feel like I want to die a lot... But I really don't think I would ever do anything direct to hasten things along... Not any more.> I don't know. Is it thinking too much? Or feeling too much?
I think it is feeling too much...
In the sense of the feeling being so intense.
But to attempt to develop comperable rationality
To counter it...
May ultimately be unproductive...
I don't know.
Maybe it is about...
Whether they work against one another...
Or whether they work in harmony...> And I guess you and I, we don't do those things in that way. As something to fill up a life. And so here we are trying to figure out what we are doing and why we are doing it and what's it all about anyway.
Maybe... It is about us seeing those things as 'something to fill up a life'. We don't really find those things meaningful much of the time. Whereas other people... I guess they do. They do. And that is why they take that route. I envy the 'doers' in the world sometimes. People who get out there and throw a cricket ball around for something to do...
Enjoy the social banter...
I'd be happier discussing the meaning of life with someone on the sidelines...
I sometimes think... The doers are happier. More in harmony with their surroundings.
But I guess... It is about finding happiness in the things that we do find meaningful. I try and push myself to be a little more interested in the 'ordinary' things... And I think there is something to be said for that. But for me to get lost in them... I really don't think I could.
> But what if nothing is wrong? What if there is just a lot wrong with the world?I guess what is wrong... Is that I hurt.
>What if it's just that we're different? What if it's just that most people have figured out how to keep everything, all the dark demons, at bay, and we've just not figured that out?
I think other people... Don't have those dark demons in the first place... Or... Those dark demons aren't so very powerful as ours. Not so very intense. Easier to cope with. I don't know.
>And the way that we see some others doing it with busyness and superficial relationships is not at all appealing? What if our intense feelings are not a defect?
I think... They are a defect when they are intense enough so that... They lead to pain. And the pain, in turn, leads to problems in functioning... Problems in intra-personal and inter-personal relationships. Problems with work etc.But I think most things...
Have the power to hurt and to help
I guess we can do something positive with our hurt
Or something negative
We can empathise more with others hurts...
Be a more sensitive person to others...
Or we can lash out with our hurts...
And become lost in ourselves...
Its not what it is...
It is what we choose to / are able to
Do with it.> I don't know. Maybe what I hated about therapy was its insistence on the past determining my present. What is wrong with me is that I had no love or care at a developmentally crucial stage. I hate that statement. I want no part of it. Not sure exactly why. Something else to think about.
You have talked about this before...
'What is wrong with me is that I had no love or care at a developmentally crucial stage'
'Its insistence on the past determining the present'
If you put those together then you get this...
'I had no love or care at a developmentally crucial stage WHICH MEANS THAT I will never ever be able to get / feel love or care'But I don't believe that...
I think... That the past does indeed determine the present... But I also think... There is something of a paradox with time... In that the present... So very quickly becomes the past as well. Your past... All of our discussions (and everything we have talked about up to now) are in the past. Those things... Join with your early childhood past... Moderate your early childhood past. Your subsequent reflections... Your subsequent relationships with people... All of those things are in your past too.
I don't believe that you aren't capable of feeling loved and cared about. I don't believe it. You are capable. But what you might well have... Is a harder road (where you need to reflect more than most, for example) in order to get there... But thats okay. Your past can be used for good as well as for bad. And you can use your past to your advantage and become a more caring and sensitive person to others because you are more intimately acquainted with how it feels when people are horrid... More intimately acquainted with that than most people.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:575153
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/write/20051022/msgs/584073.html