Posted by Larry Hoover on September 28, 2003, at 14:41:47
In reply to Re: B12 reaction, NADH, nitrates » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on September 27, 2003, at 19:16:25
> > > After each B12 needle I'd have a "one step backwards, two steps forwards reaction"...I was hoping I was doing the right thing, but the trend line seem to be on the improve. Each injection the "purple" lessened and the colour of feet/hands turned brighter red
> >>
> > That actually suggests to me that you were seriously B12 deficient, and that your body had ramped up some enzyme concentrations in a desperate attempt to accommodate what little B12 you had available. That's my educated guess.
>
> > If it was an allergy, you'd get worse over time, not better. You'd have hives. And you'd have a more severe reaction at the injection site.> Your right..haven't had hives since I was 12!
lots around that age.Well, something to be happy about....<wry grin>
> No it definitely was not an allergic reaction, although I'm going to check on any preservatives later today as Joebob suggested (the Australian drug reference I used to use has been removed from the net in the past month or so,sigh). I'm usually very careful about preservatives though.
I saw your post on that. Nothing to be worried about there.
> >
> > > Also methylcobalamin sublinguals have similar but far weaker reactions.
> >
> > Suggesting you don't have good gut uptake of B12, consistent with the idea that you were previously seriously deficient in B12.
>
>
> Lar, they were sublinguals..so does this gut uptake still apply that much?I meant a comparison between the response to the sublingual and my presumptive idea that your uptake from food had been isufficient. The neat thing about sublingual B12 is that what you don't absorb peri-orally will be swallowed, and you'll have a second shot at absorbing it from the gut.
> I do understand the poor gut uptake from diet, which most my life was a high protein meat diet style diet..mentioned b4 how I was always craving meat ..
It was once believed that the *only* way to obtain uptake from the gut was through the action of "intrinsic factor", which is low or absent in pernicious anemia. However, it has recently been shown that there is passive absorption, anyway. So, doses that are approximately 100 times the RDA (i.e. mg doses, vs the RDA in micrograms) will still promote some B12 uptake.
> >You do sound like you might benefit from NADH. Enada is the company that patented the process, but they license the product to numerous vendors. I would presume there is an Aussie vendor.
>
> No. I can only get niacinamide and niacin.
> I'm going to order the NADH from o'seas. .I had tried all the chemists before your suggestion. This week I've tried all the docs I can think of who practise some kind of orthomolecular psychiatry or on some nutritional basis..in case they resell some ..but I have found none. Most only suggest dietary modifications and supps like niacinamide.. etc.. (docs in Oz don't list their specialty..so It's difficult to find out..dumb idea in my book).I thought you were a civilised nation....
> Is the sublingual OK for the NADH?(or should I look for an enteric coated one).
The sublingual seems to work faster, but I have no idea how they compare on percentage uptake. In this case, any of the sublingual NADH swallowed inadvertently will be decomposed in the stomach. I use both, and both work for me.
> I was thinking of ordering these ones http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/enadasn25.htmlYup, that's the stuff. Same brand I use. Now, the sublingual is 10 mg. I use the 5 mg enteric, but in future I'll get the 2.5.
At first, I used 10 mg/day. But by about day five, I felt "full up" with the stuff, and now I use 5 mg/week. It seems something like filling up a near-empty well, and then topping it up more occasionally thereafter.
> BTW , I got some blood tests back this week..no coeliac, (as I expected fdrom an alimination diet years ago. )
That would be the anti-gliadin antibody titre?
> Probably glandular fever a long time ago(about 20 yrs I suspect)..which they believe can trigger hashi.
Hashimoto's is a bizarre entity, IMHO.
> I didn't really want either of these run, but guess nice to know.
>
> RT3 normal..right in middle of range, which I also kinda suspected and means I can't put my strange reaction to T4 only meds down to that, unless things have changed in the 2 years since I tried T4 only.Are your thyroid symptoms consistent with the blood concentrations? Sometimes I wonder about the possibility of the thyroid version of insulin resistance.
> I did suspect a small reaction to nitrates years ago in an elimination diet, and I've always limited this..occasionally bacon or corn beef seemed OK though.
> It fits in with that dental injection reaction and B12 reaction.
> That week I did eat a lot of nitrates so may have built up my level of (lot of leftover corn beef dinner that I froze and too lazy to prepare new food err preferring to spend time on the net?)
> Here's
> http://www.health.qld.gov.au/phs/Documents/ehu/4599.pdf
> people with a deficiency of a particular enzyme (glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase) are at particular risk from the ingestion of
> high levels of nitrate and nitrite.
> Even higher levels of exposure are needed to cause adverse health effects in other people. The adverse health effects are attributed to the formation of methaemoglobin. This compound is formed when nitrite present in the blood binds to normal haemoglobin.
> If the level of methaemoglobin in the blood is too high, a person may exhibit symptoms suggestive of not having enough oxygen because
> methaemoglobin does not carry oxygen as efficiently as normal haemoglobin. The types of symptoms are related to the level of
> methaemoglobin in the blood.
> Symptoms may include bluish discolouration of the skin, particularly around the mouth and eyes, headache, dizziness, weakness and difficulty in breathing. In most severe cases damage to the brain and even death may occur.
> The conversion of haemoglobin to methaemoglobin requires nitrite.
> However, ingested nitrate can be converted to nitrite by bacteria normally present in the stomach. In most people, methaemoglobin is
> converted back to haemoglobin, but low levels of methaemoglobin are normally present and do not pose a risk to health.
> -------------Intriguing.
> So can I please borrow your brain hon on
> glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase?Gonna hafta do some reading. I'll come back to you on it, later.
> How's your elimination diet going?Haven't started yet. Being a trucker, I'm at the mercy of truck-stop food. Can't do an elimination diet on the road. Now I'm home for a bit, and I'm doing the diet starting this week. Shopping required.
> <fried brain?
Trucking is brutal.
Hugs,
> JanThanks. Back at ya.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:259730
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263972.html