![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by Poet on April 30, 2005, at 3:34:26
In reply to .....never known pain like this......(trigger?), posted by shrinking violet on April 29, 2005, at 18:56:59
(((((((((SV))))))))))))
I know you are hurting so badly, and I wish I could find a way for you to keep seeing your T.
I know how intense the pain of major depression is. It's like my mind can only think of that one thing that would make me happy, make my life worth living. It's always something completely out of reach- for me it's a job. For you it is your therapist.
I am surrounding you with white light of healing, I hope it lessens your pain. You tried your hardest in therapy. Trying ones best is all that we can ask of ourselves. Be proud of what you did share with her. At the last session I think you'll be surprised how many things she heard you say and how you said it. My T does that to me alot, you said...
Sorry this post is getting rambling. Should have drank until I fell asleep, but am only drinking two nights a week. So I just popped an ambien and I need to sleep -it's 3:30 A.M.
Take Care Many Hugs, Hug and kiss your kitten and I'll hug and kiss my three kitties. Remember pets provide unconditional love, and you need to be loved.
Good night, actually morning.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:18:21
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?), posted by sunnydays on April 29, 2005, at 19:56:28
Thank you sunny. I'm sorry you're hurting too. Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate them.
SV
> I'm new here, but I've been reading here a while and I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in feeling this at all. I'm a student, too, and leaving my T for the summer, and it's really hard for me too. I'll be back in the fall, so it's not quite the same as for you, but I sometimes don't know how I'll manage to be gone for the entire summer. I have been struggling with some of the same questions as you and I don't really have any answers or advice, but I wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and you're not alone in this. Sorry I can't be of more help. It's definitely a difficult situation.
>
> sunnydays
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:24:45
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?) » shrinking violet, posted by frida on April 29, 2005, at 20:22:11
>> I don't know exactly the details of why you have to leave, or terminate T..is there any way that you can continue...? or work something out with her so you don't have to leave her??
--Hi Friday, thank you and welcome.
No, unfortuntely there isn't. She works at the Uni where I'm a grad student, and since I'm close to graduation, I can't see her anymore. Although, I am taking one course this summer, and continuing my work at the library, so I will be on campus and technically a student, but, she seems to want to terminate now, so I didn't ask why I couldn't finsh the summer with her....I'd be too devastated if she said no.
>> (((((Shrinking violet)))))
>
> I can only magine the depth of your pain..the possibility of losing my T makes me feel so much pain and hopelessness. I wish I could take away those feelings for you...--Thank you. I wish you could too.
>> Your post breaks my heart. Can you email her, reach out to her still? Maybe you and her can work something out? Does she know how you're feeling..?
--I don't know,I wish there were. I know she knows I'm upset, but I don't think she knows how hard this is, about the drug0-taking to keep myself asleep/numb, about the suicidal plans/thoughts, about the intense fear of being left alone. But, it sems stupid and unfair to dump all of this on her now. I want to email her so badly, but....I won't.
> I'm so sorry for your pain..I'm sending you lots of support....
> forgive me if you've shared about all of this already, it just breaks my heart to see you in so much pain
>
> You are not alone..
> love,
> Frida--Thank you hon, your words mean a lot. You take care too.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:27:21
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?, posted by LadyBug on April 29, 2005, at 22:15:28
> Will you explain to me why your leaving her? I understand if your moving away. It breaks my heart to see you have to suffer so much pain. It doesn't seem right to have to leave your T. when your not ready. Maybe if I knew why you were leaving, I'd hav a bit more to offer.--My T works at a University counseling center where I have been a grad student for the past couple of years. I'm graduating soon, at the end of the summer, so I can no longer see her once I graduate. I was silently hoping to be able to finish out the summer with her, but, that doesn't seem to be an option (at least not once she has brought up, and she must have her reasons, so I've left it alone).
I can imagine your pain and how you wonder how you will face her one more time. I can't even think about that day it hurts too much right now. I wish you well. I wish you the courage to get through this if it is what you have to do and you have no choice. I think it will hurt for a long time. And to you I'm sorry you are facing this.
--Thank you. I'm sorry too.
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:32:36
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?) » shrinking violet, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 23:45:53
> I'm so sorry that you are suffering. It breaks my heart. I wish there was something someone could do. Please go to your last session, even if you know you will cry the whole time. It is OK to let it out.
--I know,I will. I've been crying with her, it just doesn't seem to make things any better. And how amI supposed to leave (and live) afterwards? I don't know.....
> This is one of those situations that is impossibly unfair and at this moment you just can't see how any good could come out of it. Everything looks dark and bleak. But...if you hold on, if you get through the next days, weeks and months, I bet you will find that the work you've done together has cemented a foundation for further growth. I bet you will hear her words in your head when situations arise that make you think of her. I bet you will find that this anguish gives way to tender grief.--I'm sorry,I don't mean to be difficult here, and I know your trying to help, but......I don't believe any of that. Maybe some people "fall" for that kind of thing, and maybe for them things do get better because they have other things around them to sustain them through the pain. I don't have any of that. There's just....nothing. It feels like I'm being led deep into a thick dak jungle, and then left there, with no food or survival instincts or matches, nothing. I can't even explain it better than that, and that doesn't even suffice.
> You will always miss her. You will. All of this is totally unfair. But I don't think she would want you to do anything drastic. That isn't the way to honor the work you've done together.--It won't matter. It's easy for her anyway. I wish I knew what her magic was.....
> I hope you find some peace this weekend. I'll be around. Post as much as you need to.
>
> Hugs from me.
> Daisy--Thank you. I plan to drug myself into a stupor all weekend, and try to sleep most of the time. To hell with school right now, I don't care. Thanks again.
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:39:32
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?) » shrinking violet, posted by 10derHeart on April 30, 2005, at 0:05:41
> If I may put it this way, I beg you to either tell your T. by email, phone message - the method doesn't matter - how terrible you feel. Just whichever way is a bit easier for you to do. I'll take a guess you're partly or completely hiding it from her. That in itself much feel just awful - no wonder your insides feel so bad! And if she knew you seriously didn't want to go on in life without her, she would see to it you got the help you need. ANY of your team members would, but they have to know first to help you.
--Oh I wish I could. I want to emailher so badly. But....what could I say? And it would just interrupt her weekend. And what can she do, really? If she was that afraid for me, she's toss me into a psych ward and lock me up for the week, and I can't/won't go throught that again, it wouldn't help and probably make things worse. No one wants to deal with me, especially now, when the sands in the hourglass are running through faster and faster.> Sweetie, this is an illness and there is help out there. I know it's so hard for you to believe me right now, but it's true that you will not always feel this bad, and life CAN be worthwhile. Otherwise, as you said, why would anyone want to go on? People who've felt similar to you - and many are on these boards right now - have recovered and found the joy in life again.
--Joy in lifee again? I've never had it. Glimpses of it maybe, temporary glimpses, but that's all. And I have the a/d meds, I just won't take them. So it's up to me, and i get in my own way. So why put the burden on others who can't really "do" anything anyway (aside from lock meup,that is...what kind of solution that is supposed to be,I have yet to figure it out). And I think any small part of me that wanted to hang on, find a way to do this.....it's gone. Gone. I just want some peace now, and I know I'll never find it here.>> If you can't bring yourself to be honest with those who know you (and I understand that), you can use 911 or go to any hospital ER, any time. The people there will want to help you feel better, too. Will you think about asking directly for some help IRL, please? (((((sv)))))
--NO way. Again, that implies that one has hope,a will to live even if it's small.I don't have that anymore. Especially not enough to be locked up for a week+. I'd rather be dead that go through that again, that was sheer torture. There isno help for me, there really isn't.I tried, I did,but.....It's time to face the truth.
Thank you for your thoughts. I hope you're doing well.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:43:56
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?) » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on April 30, 2005, at 3:34:26
>> I know how intense the pain of major depression is. It's like my mind can only think of that one thing that would make me happy, make my life worth living. It's always something completely out of reach- for me it's a job. For you it is your therapist.
--(((((Poet)))))) Thank you friend. You're always around when I need you. I appreciate that.
It isn't just her, it really isn't. She's at the forefront right now, and stirring up a lot of the crap that's already there. But there's so much more, so much I can't get into, here or with anyone. And does it really matter anyway?
>> Sorry this post is getting rambling. Should have drank until I fell asleep, but am only drinking two nights a week. So I just popped an ambien and I need to sleep -it's 3:30 A.M.
--It's ok hon, I understand and I thank you for taking the time. I wish you peace enough to lay down the bottle. I've been reaching for the pills every time I'm conscious, so, I understand. I wish better things for you. In time, it will happen for you. You're doing such great work, showing tremendous courage. I hope you contine, and believe that it'll be better for you in the end. Your T sounds very dedicated and caring toward you, I'm glad for that.
<3
SV
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 12:26:25
In reply to woozy from meds...forgive any ramblins/errors » frida, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:24:45
BELIEVE me, I understand as much as anyone could. I really feel for you, and wish I could help.
But. She is still your therapist for one more week, and emailing her (if that's how you contact her between sessions) the things you say here are what therapists are for.
((((Shrinking Violet))))
If you can't manage it with her, perhaps another member of your team? And if not with them then ask for a referral for a therapist outside the university?
Sweet Shrinking Violet, as much as we want to help, you need someone IRL to support you at this difficult time. I'll lend you some of my courage to help you find someone.
> Although, I am taking one course this summer, and continuing my work at the library, so I will be on campus and technically a student, but, she seems to want to terminate now, so I didn't ask why I couldn't finsh the summer with her....I'd be too devastated if she said no.
> --I don't know,I wish there were. I know she knows I'm upset, but I don't think she knows how hard this is, about the drug0-taking to keep myself asleep/numb, about the suicidal plans/thoughts, about the intense fear of being left alone. But, it sems stupid and unfair to dump all of this on her now. I want to email her so badly, but....I won't.
>
Posted by fallsfall on April 30, 2005, at 12:45:33
In reply to Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » shrinking violet, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 12:26:25
I agree with Dinah. This is not the time to give up. She's still your therapist, and - as her patient - you have an obligation to tell her how you are feeling.
You say that you don't want to ask to continue through the summer because it would be painful if she said no. Seems to me that you are in an awful lot of pain now - would her saying no be any worse than where you are? Isn't that worth the risk of asking? She doesn't even know that is what you want.
If you have been hiding your misery from her, then of course she can't help you.
I've been in the hopeless place. In my case, my misery was caused by the therapist who I couldn't live without. I finally screwed up the courage to leave her. Now, 2 years later, things really are much better.
By the way, when I left her, I went to a different therapist (and I was SOO far into the camp of "My old therapist is the only one who could ever understand me in the world - I will die without my old therapist"). And he is wonderful. Very different from her. She taught me some things, he teaches me other things. My point is that there probably are other people out there who can help you when you can't see your current therapist anymore.
But in the meantime, please tell your therapist that you want to see her through the summer, and make part of your therapy goals to have you situated with a new therapist when you can't see her anymore.
Posted by sunnydays on April 30, 2005, at 13:15:56
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?), posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 11:39:32
shrinking_violet -
I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through. When I read your posts I see such a kind, compassionate person that it really seems unfair to me that you have to go through all this pain. I know you said you're scared your T will have you locked up if you tell her how you feel, but maybe you could tell her a little bit of it at least? I understand that you may not feel able to - I am having lots of trouble telling my T how I feel about leaving him for the summer, and spent almost our entire session last week silent - but I'm going to try really hard this coming week to just tell him a little tiny piece of how much I'm going to miss seeing him. Maybe you can tell her at least a little tiny bit of how you feel? I'm sending you all of my extra courage (sorry it's not that much) and all of my support in hopes that maybe you can just tell her a little tiny piece. Maybe she can help you with a little bit of your pain and then the rest wouldn't have to seem quite so overwhelming.I know that none of what I said is at all adequate to relieve the depth of your pain, but try to think in terms of little steps -- getting through the next five minutes, the next hour, the next week. And please try not to keep all of your pain to yourself IRL. Try to give a little bit to someone else and let them keep it for you.
Again, I am so sorry that someone as kind and caring as you seem to be has to go through pain like this. Please find comfort wherever you can, and try to hang in there.
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:27:11
In reply to Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » shrinking violet, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 12:26:25
dinah your sweet and funny, thank you.
>> But. She is still your therapist for one more week, and emailing her (if that's how you contact her between sessions) the things you say here are what therapists are for.
---Thank you, but, she isn't there anymore. Not really. And I wuldn't take advatnage of her that way....I know she checks emails on the weekends, and I wouldn't bother her that way, or put her through that. Besides, what could she do, aside from threaten to lock me up.
>> ((((Shrinking Violet))))
--Thank you, I really need hugs right now. I wish you wre here to give one IRL.
>> If you can't manage it with her, perhaps another member of your team? And if not with them then ask for a referral for a therapist outside the university?--NO NO NO . Again, the members of my team, they aren't realy there anymore either. The only other person i'd go to besides my T is my nutritionist, but she isn't a T, so, I wouldn't lay this on her. And agin, it's the wekend. How much can be done through email, really. As for referalls, my T has tried given me some. I don't want them. I don't want this anymore, with anyone else. I'm past trying to want anything for myself, I get in my own way, and wouldn't put anyone else through what I've put my T through either. And for what.....it's a partnership, as my T says, and I've exited stage left a long time ago. I wish I never started any of this, I was better off before.
>> Sweet Shrinking Violet, as much as we want to help, you need someone IRL to support you at this difficult time. I'll lend you some of my courage to help you find someone.
--Your sweet, thank you. But there is no one. No one.
Thank you Dinah, I appreciate your taking the time. I hope you are well.
I apologieze for any typos..i tried to fix them all. I'm still woozy.SV
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:39:15
In reply to Re: Shrinking Violet (hands on hips), posted by fallsfall on April 30, 2005, at 12:45:33
> I agree with Dinah. This is not the time to give up. She's still your therapist, and - as her patient - you have an obligation to tell her how you are feeling.
--I can't see it that way. What can she do in a week or two? She isn't a miracle-worker, or a rescuer....As much as I wish she could hug me and fix my life, make the pain go away, etc, I know now that she can't do that. And forcing meds down my throat and locking me in a ward for a few days isn't going to help either. I'm beyond help. And I don't want it, not that kind. I'm in my own way, that's the truth of it. I've put her through enough, I wn't do it anymore. I need to handle this, or not, on my own, like I did before I met her. It's time to decide once and for all what to do. Before I started this with her, I told myself I'd give it a chance, even though I was skeptical. If it worked, great, if not....then it was time to lay down and find some peace in the only other way I know of.
>> You say that you don't want to ask to continue through the summer because it would be painful if she said no. Seems to me that you are in an awful lot of pain now - would her saying no be any worse than where you are? Isn't that worth the risk of asking? She doesn't even know that is what you want.
--I know, but she must know that's what I would want if she asked. And she hasn't. Even last session she said our last appt "will be and should be" in two weeks. That pretty much answers any hope I would have had for an extension. Besides, the end would be the same...it would come eventually. Maybe then I'd be able to work through some of this and be able to "accept" it better, but maybe not, so.....what would be the point. I couldn't chance it and add any more hurt. She hurts me in little ways iwth things she says as it is (more the way I take them than how she means them, maybe, but the end is the same).
> If you have been hiding your misery from her, then of course she can't help you.
-- I know, but it's too late now. And I can't be honest with her anyway. She'd tell the director, the other T's, and in the end I'd end up locked up in a ward again. I can't chance that. I can't trust her. Best to keep it to myself and decide on my own whtt to do. Time to fix myself in my own way, maybe, even if others don't agree with it. I just want some peace, that's all. And I wn't get it here. Is that too much to ask? Is it?
>> I've been in the hopeless place. In my case, my misery was caused by the therapist who I couldn't live without. I finally screwed up the courage to leave her. Now, 2 years later, things really are much better.
--I'm glad for you, I am. But I dont have 2 years. I don't have 2 months. I dont have that kind of time. I've waited for over 2 decades for things to "get better." Yet they always get worse. And I can't do this anymore. I'm tired, and I just can't.
> By the way, when I left her, I went to a different therapist (and I was SOO far into the camp of "My old therapist is the only one who could ever understand me in the world - I will die without my old therapist"). And he is wonderful. Very different from her. She taught me some things, he teaches me other things. My point is that there probably are other people out there who can help you when you can't see your current therapist anymore.
-I'm sure there are. But I want nothing to do with them. Sorry, but...therapy isn't for me. I've learned that. I'm so resistant it's futile to even try anymore. I'm glad it works for some people, but it won't for me. And I dont have the energy to go through xx number of T's to try to find a decent one, but it will still awlays be areminder that it isnt my T.....no, rephrase, that is wouldn't be MJ, b/c she's much more than a T to me.....a T is one of the last tings she is to me.
> But in the meantime, please tell your therapist that you want to see her through the summer, and make part of your therapy goals to have you situated with a new therapist when you can't see her anymore.
--I can't I cant risk it. And a new T wouldnt be a goal for me anyway. And I wont pretend it is.
See...it's hopeless for me. I'm my biggest enemy.
Sorry. I know you're trying to be hepful. I do appreciate it.
SV
Posted by frida on April 30, 2005, at 13:41:02
In reply to Re: Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » Dinah, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:27:11
dear shrinking violet,
oh, sweetie, my heart goes out to you--I'm so sorry about what you're going through..
I still think that you should tell your T some of what you're feeling at least...you have nothing to lose, and it's not bothering her..She worked with you, she had a commitment with you (she still has), she cares about you.. I'm sure she doesn't want you to experience all this pain..all by yourself....she can't guess what you're going through..
I think I would give it a try and tell her in an email, you are not bothering her or interrupting her weekend, it's important, and she does care about you and would want to know how you're truly feeling...
you've worked together a long time,right?
I think it would break my heart to walk away from my T with so many things unsaid.
I know you feel that it's not worth it and that you're tired and don't want to try and don't want to reach out to her..but i truly wish you could do that..I wish you could send her an email, at least a short one, telling her that you're struggling so much, that you find it hard to tell her too because you don't want to bother her, etc..but that you feel in so much pain...I hope you can let her know..
My heart goes out to you-
if i were in such a painful situation, i think I would also want to protect myself and feel that way and even angry at my T..but in the end I think I would just break down and tell her how I"m truly feeling, and I'd tell her please please help me through this..please, would you consider emailing her and telling her some of what you're feeling?
I know it's very hard and you don't want to..it just breaks my heart that you're going through this alone and your T doesn't know how you're truly feeling.
I truly believe you need to reach out to someone...
I know it's so hard to reach out and ask for help...and how easy to feel you're bothering the other person, but people care about you and they would like to know how you're feeling and at least hold you and support you through this...i'm thinking of you and sending you lots of support, I am truly sorry you're going through this...
lots of support,
Frida
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:43:02
In reply to Re: .....never known pain like this......(trigger?), posted by sunnydays on April 30, 2005, at 13:15:56
>> I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through. When I read your posts I see such a kind, compassionate person that it really seems unfair to me that you have to go through all this pain.
--Thank you, but I think I do deserve it. This and so much more. I'm not compassionate or good. I'm not. You dont' know me, not really. No one does.
I know you said you're scared your T will have you locked up if you tell her how you feel, but maybe you could tell her a little bit of it at least? I understand that you may not feel able to - I am having lots of trouble telling my T how I feel about leaving him for the summer, and spent almost our entire session last week silent - but I'm going to try really hard this coming week to just tell him a little tiny piece of how much I'm going to miss seeing him. Maybe you can tell her at least a little tiny bit of how you feel? I'm sending you all of my extra courage (sorry it's not that much) and all of my support in hopes that maybe you can just tell her a little tiny piece. Maybe she can help you with a little bit of your pain and then the rest wouldn't have to seem quite so overwhelming.
--I've tried....I dont think she wants to hear it. I tried asking her why people choose to live everyday. She asked me why I asked that, if I was planning on hurting myself. I had to say no, or else she owuld have been calling the psych ward for beds. So, what's the use? We listened to a half hour CD I made for a her, a goodbye sort of thing...it was sweet, we hugged, held hands, I cried (she didnt', notably). She knew it was hard. Didnt seem to phase her. I wish I knew what her secret was, I wish I knew why she can see me and then see another client right after me and have it not matter. I wish I knew why she can do whatever she's doing this weekend and not think about me, while i'm swallowing pills and crying nonstop.
Thannk you sunny.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:52:54
In reply to Re: Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » shrinking violet, posted by frida on April 30, 2005, at 13:41:02
I wish I could too. I want to so badly.....but I dont think anything woulud come of it except bother her, or frustrate her, or take her personal time away. I can't do that.
I want to do what you said, I want to ask her to HELP ME through this without locking me up, without sharing my painful and secret feelings/thoughts with anyone else. That I need trust her now and need her to trust herself. That I'm really really scared, and I don't think it's time for one more session, that there's so much more to be worked through first, and I honestly truly do not think I'd be able to function alone after that. I can barely do so now. I want to beg her to not let me leave her yet, because I know I'm in trouble if I do.
But....She'll think it's a manipulation. She'll think it's part of "the process." She'll think prolonging it will make it worse. She'll think that I need another T, which I'll refuse, so....then we're back to where we are now.
I can't make her into a deity, b/c she isn't. She can't DO anything that would help. And even if we did have the summer, ther's no guaratnee I'd be able to make use of that time, as much as I'd want to, and as much as I think I could do so now. Two years almost now, and I've gone in 95% of the time and stared at the floor or fiddled with my sleeves while she did most of the talking. Why woulud that suddenly change?
Some people can't be helped. Some people....you can only do so muc for and then give up. Some people get in their own way. All fo those people are me.
ugh, sorry for the typos, it's hard to type. I should try to sleep.
Thank you.
> dear shrinking violet,
> oh, sweetie, my heart goes out to you--
>
> I'm so sorry about what you're going through..
> I still think that you should tell your T some of what you're feeling at least...you have nothing to lose, and it's not bothering her..She worked with you, she had a commitment with you (she still has), she cares about you.. I'm sure she doesn't want you to experience all this pain..all by yourself....she can't guess what you're going through..
> I think I would give it a try and tell her in an email, you are not bothering her or interrupting her weekend, it's important, and she does care about you and would want to know how you're truly feeling...
> you've worked together a long time,right?
> I think it would break my heart to walk away from my T with so many things unsaid.
> I know you feel that it's not worth it and that you're tired and don't want to try and don't want to reach out to her..but i truly wish you could do that..I wish you could send her an email, at least a short one, telling her that you're struggling so much, that you find it hard to tell her too because you don't want to bother her, etc..but that you feel in so much pain...I hope you can let her know..
> My heart goes out to you-
> if i were in such a painful situation, i think I would also want to protect myself and feel that way and even angry at my T..but in the end I think I would just break down and tell her how I"m truly feeling, and I'd tell her please please help me through this..
>
> please, would you consider emailing her and telling her some of what you're feeling?
>
> I know it's very hard and you don't want to..it just breaks my heart that you're going through this alone and your T doesn't know how you're truly feeling.
>
> I truly believe you need to reach out to someone...
> I know it's so hard to reach out and ask for help...and how easy to feel you're bothering the other person, but people care about you and they would like to know how you're feeling and at least hold you and support you through this...
>
> i'm thinking of you and sending you lots of support, I am truly sorry you're going through this...
>
> lots of support,
> Frida
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 13:54:08
In reply to Re: Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » Dinah, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:27:11
But I'm probably old enough to be your mother (ouch!) and I am a mother.
I've been around this world for 43 years, and my first introduction to therapy was at age 13. Life sucks... sometimes. And it's beautiful and worth living... sometimes. When you're in the bad spots it's hard to see that there will be good times ahead. But there will be good times ahead. Sometimes against your will. :)
There are things in this life that you are meant to do. You may not have found them yet, but they're there.
Losing someone you love hurts like hell, and there's no way around that. All you can do is endure until time dulls the pain.
Feeling like you aren't worthy hurts like hell, but there are lots of ways around that. I can think of a few right off the top of my head.
You're too young to think that things can't be better. If I had thought that at my worst, my son wouldn't be here today. There are some dogs with health problems who might not have found loving and accepting homes. My father would have died bitter and lonely.
It's hard to see it now, but it is true. If you hang on through the worst, things do get better. You love again. You hurt again. You make the world a bit better than it would have been without you. You screw up and make it a bit worse. You do all of those things, because everyone does. Life does go on after a loss, even if you don't want it to. And there is joy and meaning in life after a loss, even if you don't really want there to be.
Don't give up.
Posted by frida on April 30, 2005, at 14:07:08
In reply to Re: Shrinking Violet (hands on hips) » frida, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 13:52:54
shrinking violet,
safest hugs to you--
you said that you spent almost 2 years looking down while she did most of the talking and that makes you question if you'd be able to talk now...
and makes you feel hopeless..
I wanted to share that I don't think it's hopeless.. I spent the first 3 or so years with my T unable to talk at all. Just looking at her, looking down, hiding..only to break down after sessions...just now I'm beginning to talk..and she is amazed because even herself had felt very frustrated before when I begged her to help me and then could not say a word at all and would just stay there looking down while she talked. I would promise I'd talk and reach out and then I couldn't...but slowly I began to learn to talk and put all my feelings into words. It was very hard. But there IS hope. If I could do it, then I truly believe you could too. I know how hard it is and the pain when you leave, feeling there is no way you can be helped because you can't say anything and you just sit there and then you leave and the pain overwhelms you totally and you wish you could have one more chance to do it differently :-( But there IS hope...I still believe that your T would want to know how you're truly feeling..I hear your fear of her thinking that you may be manipulating, but she's a human being, she does care about you, maybe if you try to explain it from your heart she can take it as it is...just a CRY FOR HELP.
Maybe you can send her all these posts, the posts you've written..I think this is so important for her to read:
"I want to do what you said, I want to ask her to HELP ME through this without locking me up, without sharing my painful and secret feelings/thoughts with anyone else. That I need trust her now and need her to trust herself. That I'm really really scared, and I don't think it's time for one more session, that there's so much more to be worked through first, and I honestly truly do not think I'd be able to function alone after that. I can barely do so now. I want to beg her to not let me leave her yet, because I know I'm in trouble if I do".You could write an email and hope for the best and see what happens..maybe she would surprise you...
I think I would take one last chance and be totally honest with her...just write to her from your heart...she would want to know what you're truly feeling....She does care about you...
I know that she may have felt frustrated, my T did in the past and it was very hard for both of us, and she was hard on me, but it was out of her own frustration because I didn't let her to be helped when I needed it so much.
Please, consider being honest with her and telling her...
it is ok to reach out..we're talking about your life, it is very important...she worked with you for 2 years and she does care about you...consider telling her...
I know you say she's not a deity, but sometimes caring and support can do so much...It changed everything for me, to share the pain...I know you say that you can't be helped..i thought the same way, and I spent 3 and more years almost in silence.but things do change....i'm here for you, and sending you lots of support...
love,
frida>
>
>
>
>
> > dear shrinking violet,
> > oh, sweetie, my heart goes out to you--
> >
> > I'm so sorry about what you're going through..
> > I still think that you should tell your T some of what you're feeling at least...you have nothing to lose, and it's not bothering her..She worked with you, she had a commitment with you (she still has), she cares about you.. I'm sure she doesn't want you to experience all this pain..all by yourself....she can't guess what you're going through..
> > I think I would give it a try and tell her in an email, you are not bothering her or interrupting her weekend, it's important, and she does care about you and would want to know how you're truly feeling...
> > you've worked together a long time,right?
> > I think it would break my heart to walk away from my T with so many things unsaid.
> > I know you feel that it's not worth it and that you're tired and don't want to try and don't want to reach out to her..but i truly wish you could do that..I wish you could send her an email, at least a short one, telling her that you're struggling so much, that you find it hard to tell her too because you don't want to bother her, etc..but that you feel in so much pain...I hope you can let her know..
> > My heart goes out to you-
> > if i were in such a painful situation, i think I would also want to protect myself and feel that way and even angry at my T..but in the end I think I would just break down and tell her how I"m truly feeling, and I'd tell her please please help me through this..
> >
> > please, would you consider emailing her and telling her some of what you're feeling?
> >
> > I know it's very hard and you don't want to..it just breaks my heart that you're going through this alone and your T doesn't know how you're truly feeling.
> >
> > I truly believe you need to reach out to someone...
> > I know it's so hard to reach out and ask for help...and how easy to feel you're bothering the other person, but people care about you and they would like to know how you're feeling and at least hold you and support you through this...
> >
> > i'm thinking of you and sending you lots of support, I am truly sorry you're going through this...
> >
> > lots of support,
> > Frida
Posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 18:03:28
In reply to .....never known pain like this......(trigger?), posted by shrinking violet on April 29, 2005, at 18:56:59
.....either that or people believe what they want to.
I called my psych, left a message with her. I realized I only have one left of each of the pills i've been swalong like m&m's lately. so i called her, left a message asking for refills (the university pharmacy being open a half day tomorow, thankfully). part of me was hoping she wuld hear something in my voice that would tell her i wasnt totally ok (but at the same time afraid she would hear it, b/c she'd be the most likely to throw me in a ward and toss away the key). she called back, left a message. I caled her back. she asked if i was sleeping, I said no (true, if i'm not taking meds, but if i do take them -- a mix-n-match sort of thing lately -- than i'm sleeping ok). i also didnt tell her that i'm taking them b/c i want to sleep all the time: day, night, whatever. apparently the thouught never crossed her mind. (see, I get in my own way, but how can i trust them either. how can people "get help" when you're too afraid of what the docs will do to you if you tell them the truth? makes no sense to me.....). and i must not sound as druged up as i feel riht now either. she said she'd be happy to call in 2-3 scripts for me tomorrow.
something is going right, at least.
i really need to get this presentation done for tuesday. ya think? :-/
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2005, at 18:10:47
In reply to i must be pretty trustworthy, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 18:03:28
I'm sorry your psychiatrist wasn't more in tune with what's going on. Some are definitely better at reading minds than others. But you can never count on any of them being able to do it.
It would be a good time to live up to that trust, call her and tell her why you want the prescriptions.
Posted by annierose on April 30, 2005, at 23:17:52
In reply to i must be pretty trustworthy, posted by shrinking violet on April 30, 2005, at 18:03:28
You really sound like you are in a bad place right now. Lieing to your doctors is not a good thing ... I don't mean to be nagging you on a support board, but you worry me.
Your pdoc and therapist cannot help you, if they do not know that state you are in. You say you want help, then let them do their job. Tell them how you feel and what you are thinking.
SV, let the people in your life provide you with some support to help you make decisions. Just because therapy is ending with this one therapist, doesn't mean you have to end therapy forever. I know you think "she was it". No, she wasn't. Look how many therapist there are in the phone book ... hundreds and hundreds. Help is out there. You have to want the change. It isn't going to knock on your door. I believe you can make your life better. I am sorry you are feeling so much pain.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:24
In reply to Re: i must be pretty trustworthy » shrinking violet, posted by annierose on April 30, 2005, at 23:17:52
>> SV, let the people in your life provide you with some support to help you make decisions. Just because therapy is ending with this one therapist, doesn't mean you have to end therapy forever. I know you think "she was it". No, she wasn't. Look how many therapist there are in the phone book ... hundreds and hundreds. Help is out there. You have to want the change. It isn't going to knock on your door. I believe you can make your life better. I am sorry you are feeling so much pain.
--I know, but that's the point: I "dont" want it, I don't want the change, and even if I did, on some small deep level....it's too late. I get in my own way, I won't let myself change. I'm too defensive, too stubborn....too many years of defensive measures and now their so ingrained I can't get past them. Besides, I don't necessarily like therapy. I actually think it's a twisted, stupid, gimmick. I'm sick of being seen as a pathology and not an individual, I'm tired of being analyzed and labeled, I'm tired of the "relationship" being so damned hypocritical. I went into T feeling this way, but on some level I also knew I needed it, so I thought i'd give it a try. I did. I would have left a long time ago if my T wasn't the person she was. And I think we both hung in longer than we should have, and maybe for not the best reasons. Why can't I mourn the loss of this T (this PERSON) without being wrong for it? I don't understand....See, more BS, more labeling, more hypocrisy.
I'm not asking for help.....I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe some small teensy part of me is, hence why I keep posting here when I should leave everyone alone. I think it's just that pesky ingrained surivival thing we all have whether we want it or not. But I haven't emailed my T, so that's progress.
See, I'm defensive.
And tired today, even though I slept on and off for 14+hours.Sorry.....I won't post anymore, unless I can offer something to someone else.
sv
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 13:40:42
In reply to another day » annierose, posted by shrinking violet on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:24
You don't have to help anyone here. But do let us help you.
We won't brand you, analyze you, label you. We won't terminate you. We are not constrained by any ethical laws, and we won't charge you.
I have for nearly 2 years before, only been taking help from this board, and never offered much of help for anyone. At that time, I was not capable of it - totally. Everytime I came here, I was only seeking help.
It is totally ok to do it. You need it, and there is more than enough resources available here to provide support for 1000 more people if needed.
You don't have to change - not till you feel you want to. You can just keep venting, venting and more venting. Nobody here is going to think anything less of you to do it. I have done it, and I know everyone else here has done it.
You don't have to be defensive, you can be just waht you are.. Here in this board, nobody is going to ask you to progress even. They are just going to understand you and let you some support. I think that is a wonderful thing you need right now.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 15:22:12
In reply to another day » annierose, posted by shrinking violet on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:24
>
> --I know, but that's the point: I "dont" want it, I don't want the change, and even if I did, on some small deep level....it's too late. I get in my own way, I won't let myself change. I'm too defensive, too stubborn....too many years of defensive measures and now their so ingrained I can't get past them.I know that my T would say that he would have to hold the hope (for change) for both of you, if you are feeling that you don't want to and that it's not possible. I have no idea if your T would say that. But others still have hope for you.
>Besides, I don't necessarily like therapy... I'm sick of being seen as a pathology and not an individual, I'm tired of being analyzed and labeled, I'm tired of the "relationship" being so damned hypocritical.
I think that this is a valid response. Therapy is hard enough without someone feeling that the more they do it the more labelled and pathological they are. I wish that you felt "seen" in a truly authentic way by your T and others around you.
>Why can't I mourn the loss of this T (this PERSON) without being wrong for it? I don't understand....See, more BS, more labeling, more hypocrisy.
I think you absolutely can mourn this loss. I'd worry if you did not. Loss of an important person in your life is horrible. It's terribly painful, and it's not something that you can just "get over".
But you cannot mourn if you are not alive. I don't know if that is the plan you are referring to, but that's what's alarming me, and I would guess some of the other folks who have posted to you. But this pain, and the reason for it (the loss of an important relationship) is part of what makes us human. It hurts, oh yes. It's devastating. But it's part of our humanity to be able to form relationships and develop feelings for another person. Mourning that is also part of the human experience.
I'm sorry if concern for your safety seemed to diminish your unique humanity and lead folks (perhaps your team as well?) to focus instead on pathology.
(((((SV)))))
gg
>
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2005, at 15:56:32
In reply to another day » annierose, posted by shrinking violet on May 1, 2005, at 12:58:24
I hope I didn't make you feel unaccepted the way you are now. You aren't.
I really do understand the pain. God only knows how much.
I'm just concerned for your safety, that's all.
If the same thing happens to me, I understand that people here would feel concerned for my safety as well. Probably including you. :)
In fact, I wouldn't be overly offended if the board intervened IRL under those circumstances.
I would know that it didn't mean I wasn't accepted as I was. Or that they didn't understand. Just that they cared.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 1, 2005, at 21:58:13
In reply to You are allowed to mourn » shrinking violet, posted by gardenergirl on May 1, 2005, at 15:22:12
Forgive me.....it's fairly late, I'm tired, and I haven't had much to eat today so, I hope what I say comes out the way I intend it to.
>> I think you absolutely can mourn this loss. I'd worry if you did not. Loss of an important person in your life is horrible. It's terribly painful, and it's not something that you can just "get over".
--Thank you, but....why does everyone (mostly IRL) make it seem like I'm overreacting? My medical doc throws trite condescending platitutes at me, and my T doesn't show much of a reaction herself thereby negating my reaction. And maybe I am being stupid, maybe reacting this way over a T (rather than a relative or close friend) isn't "normal?"
>> But it's part of our humanity to be able to form relationships and develop feelings for another person. Mourning that is also part of the human experience.
--Well, if that's all the "human experience" is (and that's all it seems to be, at least for me), then I don't want it.
That's all I feel safe saying.
I don't want anyone to worry about me, I really don't, for lots of reasons, least of being I shouldn't take up the space or other's time (then I should stop posting and replying, huh? Duh. I don't know why I do this, what part of me feels impelled to type all of these words and put them out there.....). There are more important things and people to concern yourselves with. Really. I do appreciate it all though.
I appreciate your responding GG (I hope you take care of yourself too....being a T IRL and here (in a way) must be very trying. ((((((gg))))))
SV
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