![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
I was in so much pain today at the end of my session that all I could say was, "I've had enough, I've had enough." My therapist said, "let's close this down - you're done, OK?" I nodded but I didn't know what to say to feel better or really, how to even leave. I think I said, "I'm so discouraged, I feel ruined." And he said, "You won't always feel like this, I'm holding the hope that it will be different." I kind of railed at him and said, "you have to say that, it is your job to say that."
Tonight he called to check in and we had virtually the same conversation. He said I'm feeling so bad about myself right now that no matter what he says, I won't find it helpful, I'll call it "therapist speak." I felt kind of bad - did I hurt his feelings? I told him that even if that was true, I needed to believe that he believed it - that he was holding on to the hope for me for awhile. He said he was and that I knew that about him. He wants to back off tomorrow and work on containment again - but that made me quiet. He asked if I was thinking that he didn't want to hear anymore - and of course that was it. He said that wasn't it, it just is hard for him to see me hurting so much. He reminded me that he is with me in this and said, "that usually helps, at least a little."
It was hard to hang up because I don't know what I want from him right now, or how to "use" him. At the end of the session and at the end of the phone call, I felt small and all I really wanted was to curl up in a ball and have him hold me and protect me. I keep going back to where he said, "I'd say "X" but that doesn't seem to be helping you right now." So what will? If he doesn't know what to say and I don't know what to ask for - what now? I think I need Therapist Speak after all.
Posted by muffled on February 12, 2008, at 23:43:49
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
Ikids are often not logical. They kids.
Sometimes my IRL daughter gets emotionally upset. She dunno why, I dunno why. I dunno what to say, she got no words. Maybe just a build up from a rotten week? Maybe she sensing her Mom is messed, mebbe all of above and a hundred other little things.
So if I am careful, and not push, she will come to me eventually, and I will hold her.
We just sit and be.
No words.
Just sit.
There is love.
She feels safe I think.
And held.
It must feel like a fuzzy warm safe blanket feeling I guess.
Maybe I say dumb things.
I go now.
Hope your ikids can feel safer somehow.
M
Posted by twinleaf on February 13, 2008, at 2:31:19
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
Hi Daisy. Not that it makes it any easier, but I think everyone here has felt what you are feeling now. I certainly have. What first comes to my mind is that you DON'T WANT him to stop working through the most painful things with you. His saying that he wants to go more gently, to spare you, and to spare him also, might feel to you like you are being emotionally abandoned- left all alone in a nightmare of pain. The message from him right now seems, at least in part, to be that you and your suffering are too much even for such a skilled and empathic therapist as he is. It would probably be more helpful to you if you felt confident that he could stay with you through the very worst, while remaining hopeful and optimistic about your future. That would be much better than stopping the session early (I'm not sure if he actually did that), and indicating that he wants a safe, less painful session tomorrow. I think you are always the one who should determine how things go. You might want it safe for part of the session, and more probing and painful for another part of it.
When I get feeling desperate, my analyst will sometimes ask me whether I would like to just be there quietly in the room with him. With the words momentarily absent, everything changes. I tend not to know quite where to look, and feel very anxious, but these feelings calm way down after a few minutes. He is very comfortable with silence, (MANY years of practice!) and I am gradually learning to be a little more so. I know that he makes sure at those times, and in fact all the time, to keep me steadily in his mind. Both our gazes tend to roam around, first meeting, then separating, then meeting again. It's a lot like what a mother and baby do. Without fail, five or ten minutes of this takes away a lot of that terrible pain. It does it more effectively than any amount of interpreting. I think the reason it is so powerful, for me, is that what I am feeling at my worst is the pain of not having had a mother when I was a baby (she was hospitalized with post-partum depression). I wonder if something like what we do would be helpful to you.
There is another thing which jumps out at me- your therapist in fact may be having a really hard time tolerating the pain you are in now, and he may indeed feel reluctant to do anything that might make it worse, even temporarily. If this is really so, wouldn't it be good to have a thorough, honest discussion about it? Once it is out on the table, you and he will be in a much better position to work on a way out of the dilemma you are presently in. It should also put you both where you want to be-working together.
Since I'm mentioning all the things which are coming to mind- I wonder whether it is hard for you, also, to remain hopeful in the face of the reality how very long and slow therapy actually is. I know you make very big demands on yourself (me, too!), and maybe you feel, at times, that you have let yourself and your therapist down. I know I feel this way quite a lot, and it does help to air these feelings. I'm going to mention Dinah here- without permission- but I think it is just wonderful how in the TWELFTH year of therapy, a lot of things suddenly began to change for her. It just takes as long as it takes! And, because you will be a therapist yourself in the future, having some kind of ongoing therapy will probably be a part of your training.
Just a last thought- do you think regression is playing an important role in your therapy? I know therapists differ on how important they think regression is (I know you know all about this), but some think it's very important to get more in touch with painful, early feelings, while others feel that it's important to avoid regression altogether and instead concentrate on mastery and growth.In any event, I think everyone is agreed that regression should pretty much be confined to therapy hours, and that if it spills over into daily life, it isn't useful.
Having had the experience of going four and even five days a week, I know now that, for me, it was too much. I think the amount of early deprivation I had makes it hard for me to avoid an undesirable degree of regression when going almost every day. I have actually made much more progress in the past year going two or three times a week. It is such a help to me to be able to spend entire days doing adult things and having a chance to regain some sense of inner balance. My emotional problems are exactly the same, of course, but the experience of working on them with this therapist is completely new and unique; it bears no resemblance at all to what went on with the old analyst. I don't mean to give any hint that I am feeling that you should see another therapist (I was just referring to myself)- yours is the gold standard- a definite keeper. If you ever decided not to see him any more, half of Babble would move to California and line up outside his office!
These thought may be completely off the mark. But it does seem that now would be a good time to talk in depth about what may be going on between you, and what you both are feeling about the course of therapy. and one another.
Posted by Fallsfall on February 13, 2008, at 7:23:01
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
(((((Daisy)))))
Have a bowl of COW sitting in the corner of your couch. I'll sit with you.
This sounds like a really hard time. He is there with you. He will stay with you. He is there to help. Sometimes it is important to step back from the pain so that you can process what you have learned. It is OK to soothe yourself. It is OK for him to soothe you with an easier session. Remember that he is really good at what he does, that he really does know how to help you. Remember too, that he can protect himself - you don't need to worry about hurting him. Don't hold back because of that. Hold back only if it is what YOU need (and it sounds like it is right now).
You can transport from his office straight to Camp Comfort. We'll all be there for you. And I heard that Camp Comfort Shoe Store just got in a lot of new shoes that are just your size!
Let me know if I can help,
Love,
Falls
Posted by rskontos on February 13, 2008, at 9:30:02
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
Daisym,
I think TwinLeaf spoke so well, I can't add much. But I was struck by the saying be careful what you wish for when I read your post. It seems that part of you are playing a tug of war. You want therapist speak and you don't. I, when I started therapy, wanted my memories back so badly. Now the flashbacks come almost non-stop and I wish they would not. (Be careful what you wish). Then you were wanting him to drive, is he driving at the wheel now, or is he still letting you cruise. You want him to hold and protect but part may want to drive and man the wheel but doesn't feel strong enough?
I do know that pain, I have sat in that chair with so much pain thinking where does it come from and where does it need to go. Somewhere there needs to be a pain dump site, where we can take it in a bowl or bucket to dump and forever be rid of it :)
Maybe we can create such a site here on babble, just outside Camp Comfort where we can shed our pain before we step in :)
I am so sorry for your pain. I wish I could take it away and dump it for you.
rsk
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2008, at 9:43:40
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
I remember my therapist telling me the same thing once. That I get in these spirals where nothing he can say gets through. He admitted feeling frustrated and helpless.
And I was flabbergasted by this view. It was his steadiness when I was falling apart that was helpful. It wasn't that I was looking to him to fix it or to find the "right" thing to say. Why did he think I come more frequently when I'm in meltdown?
I somehow managed to convey this to him. That all I really needed him to say was "Everything's going to be ok." with all the conviction he can muster. And no, I might not look at him and say "Well, then, everything's ok now." But that didn't mean it wasn't helping.
He's not saying he doesn't want to hear it anymore. It's his job as therapist to try to keep the distress at a level you can tolerate and still work day to day. He said it because it was best for you, not best for him. He said it because therapy should spend enough time on coping mechanisms that the more difficult parts of therapy are bearable. He wants to do this in the way that's right for you, not for him.
Let him bring you to the therapy version of Camp Comfort for a little while.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2008, at 10:02:26
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
I was just wondering. Does little Daisy ever have fun with your therapist? If not, it might be a helpful thing for that part of you to experience. Not because there is anything wrong with telling, or with feeling bad.
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2008, at 11:43:33
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2008, at 10:02:26
Twinleaf great post. Phillipa can't add a thing learning from you.
Posted by MissK on February 13, 2008, at 19:27:17
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
>So what will? If he doesn't know what to say and I don't know what to ask for - what now?
I am not sure what you mean when you say 'therapist speak'.
I would say now you process. I've had many, many sessions after which it seemed 'what now', what do I do with 'this', what does it 'mean', why does it seem to be getting harder, not easier. As much as possible I tried to remember what explanations and understandings were offered by my T in whatever we were talking about, both in the past and in the present. Then I continue processing what is happening to me and trying to understand the connections, etc.
I've learned that what the T says and explains and helps you understand is a very big help, but it's only when you come to understandings with yourself that you really progress. It takes time and doesn't always make sense right away, not for a while sometimes. It's so personal to you that only yourself, in the end, puts together what needs to be put together to make yourself better.
>I felt small and all I really wanted was to curl up in a ball and have him hold me and protect me.
I've had that feeling and still do sometimes, but because I have relatively little transference going on with my T, I don't think of wanting it from her very often especially outside of sessions.
You are doing some hard processing. Take extra care of yourself and be good to yourself both in body and mind. The answers and understandings will come in time.
Posted by sunnydays on February 13, 2008, at 19:44:52
In reply to Therapist Speak, posted by Daisym on February 12, 2008, at 23:10:51
I'm feeling very awkward posting here lately, Daisy. I feel like a lot of really intense stuff is going on, but not that I can really express through words. But your post reminded me of something my T said in my last session.
I was getting upset, but he kept pushing me and asking me questions about something. After a few minutes he asked, "It seems like you've been wanting to cry for a few minutes. How did it feel to have me keep asking questions? Was there anything going through your mind?" And I had a hard time expressing it, but eventually I was able to say that I felt the sad part of me was being ignored lately. And he was saying how he was trying to call out the more adult part of me, but he could see how I'd take it that way. And he said something later on in the session when I said, "But you'll get sick of me if I keep asking you the same thing over and over again!" like, "No, I won't. This is how it goes. You keep coming here and working really hard and trying to get what you think you need, and it just takes a long, long time."
The 'what you think you need' part still worries me to some degree - I suspect he doesn't always agree with me about what I need - but it was that same idea of a disconnect between what I want to hear and feel and get from him and what he is giving me, or at least what I perceive he's giving to me.
Like I said, I feel sort of clumsy and awkward when I write lately, so I hope this makes some sort of sense and isn't just all about me. I'm sorry you're struggling. I'm in the cabin across the way from you at Camp Comfort. Maybe you can come over tonight and we can have a fire in the fireplace and drink hot chocolate and eat popcorn.
Take care,
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on February 14, 2008, at 0:49:58
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak, posted by muffled on February 12, 2008, at 23:43:49
Thanks for the support. You are right, none of this is logical. Today was better. Making decisions and moving forward.
Posted by Daisym on February 14, 2008, at 2:16:58
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Daisym, posted by twinleaf on February 13, 2008, at 2:31:19
Hi Daisy. Not that it makes it any easier, but I think everyone here has felt what you are feeling now. I certainly have. What first comes to my mind is that you DON'T WANT him to stop working through the most painful things with you. His saying that he wants to go more gently, to spare you, and to spare him also, might feel to you like you are being emotionally abandoned- left all alone in a nightmare of pain. The message from him right now seems, at least in part, to be that you and your suffering are too much even for such a skilled and empathic therapist as he is. It would probably be more helpful to you if you felt confident that he could stay with you through the very worst, while remaining hopeful and optimistic about your future. That would be much better than stopping the session early (I'm not sure if he actually did that), and indicating that he wants a safe, less painful session tomorrow. I think you are always the one who should determine how things go. You might want it safe for part of the session, and more probing and painful for another part of it.
****He didn't end the session early - we were near the end and he was trying to help me close up. I didn't feel abandoned as much as frustrated in not knowing what to do to help myself. And when he tried to offer an interpretation and some hope, I essentially batted him away. His comments about backing off and containment I think came from my expression of suicidal feelings. When we get to this point, he wants to talk about those feelings - which aren't particularly easy. He said he wants to be careful that his hope for me doesn't sound glib or fake because he knows I don't feel that way right now. I think he was trying to be careful to not push his feelings on top of mine. And it was me saying, "I hurt too much, we have to figure out how to diminish this."
When I get feeling desperate, my analyst will sometimes ask me whether I would like to just be there quietly in the room with him. With the words momentarily absent, everything changes. I tend not to know quite where to look, and feel very anxious, but these feelings calm way down after a few minutes. He is very comfortable with silence, (MANY years of practice!) and I am gradually learning to be a little more so. I know that he makes sure at those times, and in fact all the time, to keep me steadily in his mind. Both our gazes tend to roam around, first meeting, then separating, then meeting again. It's a lot like what a mother and baby do. Without fail, five or ten minutes of this takes away a lot of that terrible pain. It does it more effectively than any amount of interpreting. I think the reason it is so powerful, for me, is that what I am feeling at my worst is the pain of not having had a mother when I was a baby (she was hospitalized with post-partum depression). I wonder if something like what we do would be helpful to you.
*****If I'm crying, this works for me. He is quiet, or makes all these soothing noises. But this kind of pain - the pain that feels like something is sitting on your chest and you want to kick something - is deeper than tears. It demands a response of some kind and yet it defies words. He asked me the other day if I wanted to pace around - I was tempted.
There is another thing which jumps out at me- your therapist in fact may be having a really hard time tolerating the pain you are in now, and he may indeed feel reluctant to do anything that might make it worse, even temporarily. If this is really so, wouldn't it be good to have a thorough, honest discussion about it? Once it is out on the table, you and he will be in a much better position to work on a way out of the dilemma you are presently in. It should also put you both where you want to be-working together.
*****We talked today about what he said. I told him that even if I can't take it in, even if I shut him down, I don't want him to withdraw. He said he didn't and wouldn't. But sometimes it is his job to help me see that I'm heaping on the hurt as a form of self-punishment. And just like he wouldn't let me cut myself up physically, he can't stand by and watch me do it to myself emotionally either. It needs to be titrated, talked about and overlayed with reality. He said he wasn't trying to tell me what to talk about, or not talk about - but he was trying to help me control the flooding.
Since I'm mentioning all the things which are coming to mind- I wonder whether it is hard for you, also, to remain hopeful in the face of the reality how very long and slow therapy actually is. I know you make very big demands on yourself (me, too!), and maybe you feel, at times, that you have let yourself and your therapist down. I know I feel this way quite a lot, and it does help to air these feelings. I'm going to mention Dinah here- without permission- but I think it is just wonderful how in the TWELFTH year of therapy, a lot of things suddenly began to change for her. It just takes as long as it takes! And, because you will be a therapist yourself in the future, having some kind of ongoing therapy will probably be a part of your training.
****You hit the nail on the head here. I hate how long I'm taking. I feel stronger and better and then wham - I'm down again. I think part of what happens now is that since we've been around the spiral, I sort of know what will work and what won't. And I feel the need to handle it myself and yet I don't want to. So I have this internal war going on. And then we hit patches like this week when it is so very painful that it takes your breath away - and it shocks your system that it can still hurt this much. Last week we spent a whole session talking about the kind of reflective supervision I'll probably always need because of my history. I over-identify with the kids and get so angry with the parents - not that I've ever lost my cool and shown it. But sometimes I have to lock my office door and just weep for those kids. My therapist said this isn't bad or wrong - he talked about the wounded healer - he just said it is hard on me and I'll have to be very vigilant about monitoring myself. I was terrified that he would say I really was making the wrong choice in this work.
Just a last thought- do you think regression is playing an important role in your therapy? I know therapists differ on how important they think regression is (I know you know all about this), but some think it's very important to get more in touch with painful, early feelings, while others feel that it's important to avoid regression altogether and instead concentrate on mastery and growth.In any event, I think everyone is agreed that regression should pretty much be confined to therapy hours, and that if it spills over into daily life, it isn't useful.
****There are definitely times when I feel regressed and needy. But most of my therapy has centered on making it OK to need someone else and to allow myself to be cared about and for. It is a balance between early experiences and feelings and the pressures of day-to-day stuff. More and more I can see how I'm effected by all the events of the past. It is hard to feel ruined - because the past can't be changed. It is hard to know there are all these little kid feelings still free floating and easily triggered. But more and more there is a totally adult loneliness that brings out so much sadness.
Having had the experience of going four and even five days a week, I know now that, for me, it was too much. I think the amount of early deprivation I had makes it hard for me to avoid an undesirable degree of regression when going almost every day. I have actually made much more progress in the past year going two or three times a week. It is such a help to me to be able to spend entire days doing adult things and having a chance to regain some sense of inner balance. My emotional problems are exactly the same, of course, but the experience of working on them with this therapist is completely new and unique; it bears no resemblance at all to what went on with the old analyst. I don't mean to give any hint that I am feeling that you should see another therapist (I was just referring to myself)- yours is the gold standard- a definite keeper. If you ever decided not to see him any more, half of Babble would move to California and line up outside his office!
****No worries. I'm not taking this as you suggesting I see someone else. Recently a trusted friend wondered if I shouldn't try working with a woman - because I have such a hard time being less than perfect with women. I didn't freak out, I just said I was still in barnacle mode with my therapist and not ready to be scraped off yet. We've talked off and on about stepping back my sessions. The choice is always mine. But he encourages me to think about what I want, as much as what I think I need. And for now, I want the connections and the frequency. I still have a very hard time staying open and connected to him without seeing him. And over and over again I've proved to myself that I do better when I see him. I'm less anxious overall.
These thought may be completely off the mark. But it does seem that now would be a good time to talk in depth about what may be going on between you, and what you both are feeling about the course of therapy. and one another.
****We did a lot of that today. He wanted to hear all about my suicidal plan and fantasy. I talked a lot about my kids. He asked me if I thought about what he would feel. I said yes and told him I thought he'd be mad and sad. He said he thought I was right and he was very concerned about how much self-blame I was feeling. He emphasized a number of times that he wasn't trying to squelch the stories but to instead help me handle them. It felt like it today - no pushing. He said he sees my pain and he knows I'm suffering but that together we'll make it through like we have before. I'm trying to believe him.
Thanks for your long reply. It gave me a lot to think about.
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 17:32:40
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak - triggers - long, posted by Daisym on February 14, 2008, at 2:16:58
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 17:34:12
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Daisym, posted by Fallsfall on February 13, 2008, at 7:23:01
Thanks for making me smile and for the reminder that he knows what he is doing. I'm glad Camp comfort has COW. And shoes!
And most of all, friends. :)
Love,
Daisy
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 17:43:29
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak, posted by rskontos on February 13, 2008, at 9:30:02
I often think "be careful what you wish for" too. Kind of like cloning - do I really want there to be more of me? I can't handle what there is now.
Today was a very hard but very good session. I'll post about it on a different thread. But essentially he said - keeping with the car analogy -- that I've felt lost and alone, like he is along for the ride, kind of in the backseat but not driving, and not navigating and not narrating the trip either. So it is tempting to wreck the car in order to really get his attention. He said I don't need to do that, that he really is sitting up front, not just navigating but looking out the window too and telling me about the things we are passing that maybe I'm missing since I have to keep my eyes on the road. It was nice to feel reassured.
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 17:56:20
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Daisym, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2008, at 9:43:40
It is hard, isn't it? I want to be the perfect therapy client and not frustrate my therapist. But I also need to be honest about what I want. And sometimes the words are just stuck - my brain refuses to make sentences.
I haven't asked very often for him to just say, "things are going to be OK." Because he always seems to need to add "that is my hope or belief" - he qualifies it in some way. Of course I've been known to come back with "you don't know that for sure!" or "you don't know how hard this is!" so I think I've trained him to qualify things. But he has a great way of pointing out other times that have been hard and how we've worked through those together. I like it when he uses "we" - "we've been here before, we'll get through it."
And I did tell him what you wrote - "just because I can't take it in right now doesn't mean it isn't helping." He said he knew that, he just wanted to give me space to feel bad too. They can't win, can they?
As far as having fun, my younger parts really want caring and nurturing. The adult appreciates the humor more. I often bring him comics or funny cards and he makes lots of jokes. And he has a wicked wit - irreverent but hilarious. I think I've told you before he is Jewish - and I'm Catholic, so there are lots of quips between us about converting, guilt, mothers, etc. I love that about him and the fact that one of his favorite things to say is "F-that! Whatever works." It is so -- non-therapy-speak. :)
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 19:49:29
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Daisym, posted by MissK on February 13, 2008, at 19:27:17
I get myself stuck in this "should" place - I think I "should" know how to handle things after 5 years in therapy. I think I "should" be done with some of the pain. I hate process when I know I "should" be more open to it!
Therapist speak was a term my therapist used when referring to those things therapists offer up in a global sense - kind of like the cliche "how does that make you feel?" I once said there had to be a book of sayings and questions that you received when you graduated - the secret guide book to doing therapy.
I get what you are saying about coming to an understanding within myself about things. I also know that I need to let go of wanting to understand it all because there is no explanation for some of this. I find it frustrating.
Perhaps if I could figure out what I wanted from my therapist outside of sessions, this would allow me to recognize that I either can't have it, or to get it. But that has been like grasping at smoke - nothing sticks. Today is better though.
I will try to be gentle with myself. I appreciate your response.
Posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 20:01:51
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on February 13, 2008, at 19:44:52
Sunny,
I'm glad you posted. I'm sorry it has been hard to do that. But I get in those spaces too, where everything I write sounds awkward or silly, at least to me. I do understand what you were saying and I think there is a lot of similarity in what we are struggling with.
You described the dance very well - that balance of pushing forward with words, even through tears and allowing the space for the sadness. Questions show listening and concern but they can also be trails to other things. And something might get left behind or remain in the shadows. I think that is why we go frequently and for a long time. There are many trails to explore and lots of stops to make along the way.
"What you think you need" - yes, I can hear all the questions this would bring up for me. I want so much to be perfect and have him like me and he wants very much for me to identify my needs and figure out what the need means and how to get it met - in as healthy a way as possible. Some of my needs can never be met, which causes tremendous grief and frustration. I always remember that with kids we strive for optimal frustration - enough of a challenge that they have to stretch to achieve but not so far out of reach that they give up or fall apart. Therapy is very much the same way, I think. But the tricky part is that there are pieces and parts for some of us, and depending on what else is happening, the amout of frustration we can tolerate changes from week to week. So our therapists don't always get it right.
It is nice to know you are in the cabin across the way. Falls and I will join you, but she sort of demands ice cream - so we have to have that too. And I'm staying in my pjs all weekend, OK?
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 20:59:53
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » MissK, posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 19:49:29
Ah yes. Therapist-speak. That I object to on principle.
My therapist and I once had a difference of opinion on whether I was a boundary breaker. He was sure I wasn't. I didn't call him excessively, contact him at home, etc. I didn't ask for anything from him that it wasn't in his power as therapist to give. I was respectful of his personal life.
I always thought I was, because in session I pushed those professional boundaries as far as I could. I did everything I could to bring him as a real, authentic person into that room. Or as he puts it, I would never settle for Therapist X and always insisted on X, the therapist. And as it happens, he thinks that's the way therapy should be anyway, so he doesn't object.
Yet we have developed a repertoire of things that he can say that I find helpful. One of them being "Everything is going to be ok." Or "Yes, everything is going to be fine." in a tone of great firmness and conviction.
It did take us some negotiating to get to that point. He always wanted to answer noncommittally, or to add qualifiers. And we came to an agreement that "in that we will keep working together on whatever is distressing" and "as far as it is in my power" or "in our relationship" would be implied if not stated. On the phone sometimes he tries to answer that in a conversational tone, especially when he's in public. But it doesn't work, and in fact backfires, if it isn't said in his "everything is going to be ok" voice. And if I ask him to please repeat it in that voice, he manages to muster it up even if he's annoyed or busy. I don't know how explains it to those around him. :)
So maybe I have mixed feelings on therapist-speak. Certain phrases may have received the Dinah stamp of approval?
Posted by annierose on February 14, 2008, at 21:59:59
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » DAisym, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 20:59:53
>>Certain phrases may have received the Dinah stamp of approval?
What I get from that is certain phrases bring you comfort and learning what comforts us is extremely important under the umbrella of "self care".
Like you, I do like certain phrases such as, "yes, everything is going to be okay." Sometimes I will ask directly for her to tell me that.
Hoping not to change the direction of this thread, I want to point out that "therapy speak" has a whole different meaning "In Treatment". Some of his questions/phrases are used in an effort to protect himself from feeling the truth.
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 22:09:38
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Dinah, posted by annierose on February 14, 2008, at 21:59:59
It's not *necessarily* a change of topic, I don't think. But then my train of thought may not be on a direct route. I wouldn't *think* that Daisy's therapist would use it that way. But it is something to be considered when a person finds themselves annoyed by it in therapy, isn't it? Since if we can figure out why we don't like something we have a better chance of pointing out changes?
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 8:04:52
In reply to Re: Therapist Speak » Dinah, posted by DAisym on February 14, 2008, at 17:56:20
Fun can be caring and nurturing. Just with a bit of playfulness thrown in. I was wondering if that part of your relating belonged more to the grownup part of you, and if it might be helpful to encourage the younger part of you to experience it as well. To experience a range of ways of relating to your therapist. Not joking or intellectual banter, of course. Just playfulness.
I know that part of you holds your sadness and a range of other difficult emotions, and that those emotions should be respected and not diminished in any way.
But if you met a real little girl, a solemn and sad little girl with lots of reasons to be sad, wouldn't you try to encourage her to experience other things as well? Not because you didn't honor the sadness and the reasons for it, but because she deserves more than just sadness? Even more than just sadness that brings nurturing? And maybe even because nurturing can be playful and gentle and fun.
I'm not sure what that looks like in all cases. I know sometimes I bring in something I care about to share. A picture or an object. Or I might come in, sit down and smile shyly, and tell him I'm very happy to see him today. Or sometimes he shares with me the stories of the objects in his office. Things like that. Geared not to an intellectual or witty enjoyment, but to a simple and elemental emotional enjoyment. A gentle one, suited to the circumstance.
If that makes sense.
Just my thoughts. I don't experience what you experience, so I don't know if it would be helpful to you. But for me it's been helpful to experience a wider range of ways to be cared for and cared about.
This is the end of the thread.
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