![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Poet on June 11, 2006, at 12:27:37
In reply to Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER), posted by Tamar on June 11, 2006, at 7:07:01
Hi Tamar,
You're not an idiot, you were trying to let pain out and let an old coping mechanism get the better of you.
If you're comfortable telling us what triggered the SI, maybe we can help you fight the Shadow with words.
If any of your coworkers ask what happened to your face, tell them a cat scratched you and leave it at that.
I'm sorry you lost that fight with your Shadow.
Poet
Posted by caraher on June 11, 2006, at 14:57:22
In reply to Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER), posted by Tamar on June 11, 2006, at 7:07:01
(((Tamar)))
We all know you're no idiot, just a wonderful person in a lot of pain.
As far as what to say... that's tough. You might simply say "I cut myself" and leave it at that. Someone might press you for details, but others might accept this simple declarative statement, which declares the cuts neither intentional nor accidental, rather than probe for possibly uncomfortable details.
By the way... have you received my email?
Please accept our love and take good care of yourself!
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 21:14:21
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by caraher on June 11, 2006, at 14:57:22
Tamar,
You are special, you are smart.
You are hurting so much.
Did you ever show your T all your other injuries????
He needs to understand the depth of your pain.
My GP etc. wanto put me on seroquel....
Mebbe you need a diff. med too if your still needing to SI so intensely?
I want to wrap you up and make you safe and to somehow suck the hurt away from you :-(
You are smart and eloquent. Kind and considerate. Your just in a rough place right now. But its not forever.
Celexa made me SI much worse. Zoloft is ok at lower doses.
Noboddy asks me bout me scars either.
My hand was all bashed, my GP didn't say nothing when I was there, cept 'want me to bandage it?.' I said no. Then later she phones mental health on me.....
Mebbe when you want to SI you could send out a bunch of babblemails and if anyones around we can chat? Or that chat thing that replaced 'open'?
Just thots.
Please take special care of our Tamar.
Special care.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 21:45:01
In reply to ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » caraher, posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 21:14:21
Posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 10:04:44
In reply to Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER), posted by Tamar on June 11, 2006, at 7:07:01
Tamar,
You are not an idiot, I see you has having so much pain that you don't know what to do with it. How do you get the pain out? I am still trying to figure that out myself.
I am glad you are posting, I really wish I could help in some way. I care about you and don't like to see you hurting so bad. I can offer hugs, but I know you need more than that. Let us know how work goes. ((((((Tamar)))))
Posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 13:09:46
In reply to Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER), posted by Tamar on June 11, 2006, at 7:07:01
You are not an idiot. I am really sad that you cut yourself again, and it really feels very painful for me personally to see you hurting so much. I love you, and you have helped me so much, and I feel I owe a part of my life to you and your thoughtful helping words which made my days so many time, and I wish I can make you see the worth in yourself.
But I know it is a journey you have to make by yourself - no matter how hard the struggle seems. But you will get there.
I do have a few questions that came to my mind.
Have you cut yourself before you started your therapy the first time? You said it had been 18 years since your rape, did you cut yourself all the time before your therapy? IS it possible therapy is making it worse for you? I mean, you are saying you are cutting yourself more these days when you are back in therapy, and are gaining a lot of weight. So is it possible that therapy is actually making it worse for you? I can understand a downward turn in emotions for sometime before it starts becoming better when we go to therapy, but if the downward spiral is too much, then perhaps there might be a different way to bring out healing than probing further deep inside.
I also feel, that you have as much insight as needed for healing. Focussing further on gaining insights might not help much - it might actually make it worse (kind of make you wallowing in the mud and poking the sore again and again, and not really serve any constructive purpose). What you might need is more of a role model and a person who will serve as an inspiration to you. (be it your therapist or a pastor or some other friend whom you can confide in). Maybe reading about some women who have gone through rape and sexual assault and who have emerged to be beautiful and happy might help. Also another thing that might help is reading novel about strong and powerful women who have gone through stuggles in life but who have managed at the end to emerge happy. I love Daniel Steels novels because the women in those novels go through suffering, but always emerge better than ever at the end. Maybe you can try if you would like.
Also, another thing that comes to my mind is, is it possible, that there could be something else, other than the rape that gives you a low sense of self worth? Because as difficult as it is, a rape could be won by a woman if she has a good sense of self worth initially. It might be easier to toss out a rape as just an ugly physical accident if the woman had a good sense of self worth initially. I am not trying to minimise the impact the rape had on you, but I am asking you to probe into perhaps older and deeper issues that were there even before it. Like, maybe, your self esteem was damaged before rape - by your parents or whoever. Maybe instead of focussing on the rape itself, if you could probe into your childhood more, than there might be some answers there.
Another thing that might help is, in addition to emotional healing, it is also a good idea to start simulatenously other activities (positive activities side by side) so that whatever you achieve in therapy is complemented by an increased sense of well being that you derive out of such activities. Like enroll in a class, or learn music, or do painting etc. These things enhance our sense of well being, and will serve as a good support in addition to therapy.
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:26:12
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2006, at 9:15:05
Thanks Dinah.
> I am so sorry. Would it help to talk here about what happens to upset you? It might serve to reduce the tension that leads to self injury.
I think I really should do that. I need to stop cutting myself.
> I know that for me, part of the reason I SI is so that people will see and feel my distress. So I can't pretend that everything is ok and go about my business normally. Because I'm angry at life for continuing to go on without acknowledging my pain. Because I'm angry that people expect too much of me, and don't understand that I just can't perform as expected. Perhaps your Shadow wants acknowledgement.
Yes, exactly. I want it to be visible. And in fact it doesn’t help, because as soon as my husband saw it he said he couldn’t cope with me any more.
> That's why I suggested you talk about your pain here. Bringing the pain into the light is sometimes helpful to me in that way.
>
> My last injury was pretty obvious. And while part of me was mortified, part of me wanted it seen so that I could get some help. I even deliberately made it visible when I thought I was with someone who could get that help for me. But only one person I came across mentioned it at all or asked for an explanation. I kept it brief and cryptic and truthful, with a tone of not wishing to discuss it, and she dropped it.That’s really interesting. I guess lots of people just don’t notice what might make them uncomfortable. And in fact, after all my worry, no one even noticed today. Ha ha!
> But Tamar, based on my own experience only and no professional experience at all, it may be best not to explain away the cuts to those who can help you. Your husband, your therapist, and anyone else with the power to help should know what pain you're in so that the Shadow doesn't continue to up the ante. And better yet if you can bring yourself to not pretend everything's ok even without hurting yourself (visibly or not).
That’s very true… although at the moment my husband and my therapist are part of the problem! My husband doesn’t see my pain but when I remind him he tries to deny it; my therapist can see it but isn’t particularly interested…
> I don't recall how old your children are? For very young children "Mommy cut herself." might suffice as it's sort of the thing they'd say. If they're older it might be more troublesome.
The eldest is six. And you’re right; they don’t really need to be told much. It’s amazing how much weirdness they’ll accept at that age…
> ((((Tamar)))))
>
> How can I help?You did help! Thanks for responding, and for the hugs. Here are some for you (((((Dinah)))))
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:28:40
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by Poet on June 11, 2006, at 12:27:37
> You're not an idiot, you were trying to let pain out and let an old coping mechanism get the better of you.
Thanks Poet.
> If you're comfortable telling us what triggered the SI, maybe we can help you fight the Shadow with words.
I think we may need some asterisks!
> If any of your coworkers ask what happened to your face, tell them a cat scratched you and leave it at that.
They didn’t even notice! Yeah, a cat scratch would probably have worked, though.
> I'm sorry you lost that fight with your Shadow.Maybe next time I’ll win! Or maybe I’ll kick her *ss a little bit first…
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:30:53
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by caraher on June 11, 2006, at 14:57:22
> (((Tamar)))
>
> We all know you're no idiot, just a wonderful person in a lot of pain.I kind of like the certainty with which you say that!
> As far as what to say... that's tough. You might simply say "I cut myself" and leave it at that. Someone might press you for details, but others might accept this simple declarative statement, which declares the cuts neither intentional nor accidental, rather than probe for possibly uncomfortable details.
That works too… So far no one has noticed!
> By the way... have you received my email?
I will go check in a few minutes.
> Please accept our love and take good care of yourself!
Many thanks. Love to you too.
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:38:12
In reply to ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » caraher, posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 21:14:21
> You are special, you are smart.
So are you!
> You are hurting so much.
> Did you ever show your T all your other injuries????
> He needs to understand the depth of your pain.Funny story… I never showed him any of my injuries, but mentioned to him about the photos I took and asked if I could leave them with him. He had suggested I could leave something with him, and I thought of the photos. But when I mentioned it to him he looked quite alarmed. I asked if it was appropriate and he said he didn’t know. So I asked him to think about it, and I told him he didn’t have to look at them. But he never mentioned it again and I couldn’t bear to bring it up. So I don’t know if he ever thought about it. He probably forgot. He’s good at forgetting. (I’m such a bitch.)
> My GP etc. wanto put me on seroquel....
> Mebbe you need a diff. med too if your still needing to SI so intensely?I’m starting to think it’s a good idea.
> I want to wrap you up and make you safe and to somehow suck the hurt away from you :-(
That sounds really nice :)
> You are smart and eloquent. Kind and considerate. Your just in a rough place right now. But its not forever.
> Celexa made me SI much worse. Zoloft is ok at lower doses.The SI only became regular and frequent since Prozac. When I wasn’t on meds I hardly ever did it….
> Noboddy asks me bout me scars either.
> My hand was all bashed, my GP didn't say nothing when I was there, cept 'want me to bandage it?.' I said no. Then later she phones mental health on me.....Grrr… I hate people who make assumptions. Why should she presume to call mental health if she hadn’t asked you about it?
> Mebbe when you want to SI you could send out a bunch of babblemails and if anyones around we can chat? Or that chat thing that replaced 'open'?
I will try really hard to do that next time. I need to find ways of stopping.
Thanks so much (((((Muffled)))))
Tamar
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 13:39:06
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Poet, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:28:40
Maybe next time I’ll win! Or maybe I’ll kick her *ss a little bit first…
***Hi Tamar.
What d'ya mean by that ?
Or mebbe you don't know ?
Why d'ya need to kick her *ss?
You can ignore me if I am annoying you!
Muffled
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:41:52
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER), posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 10:04:44
> You are not an idiot, I see you has having so much pain that you don't know what to do with it. How do you get the pain out? I am still trying to figure that out myself.
Yeah… getting the pain out. The only thing I’ve figured out so far is that I need to feel safe. And it doesn’t come easily to me. I wish I had a special place I could go that was my safe place. Maybe I could imagine one… But I’d rather have a real one.
> I am glad you are posting, I really wish I could help in some way. I care about you and don't like to see you hurting so bad. I can offer hugs, but I know you need more than that. Let us know how work goes. ((((((Tamar)))))
You do help! Thanks for the hugs. I like hugs a lot. It’s so nice to know you care. (((((HF)))))
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 13:52:26
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » happyflower, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:41:52
Yeah… getting the pain out. The only thing I’ve figured out so far is that I need to feel safe. And it doesn’t come easily to me. I wish I had a special place I could go that was my safe place. Maybe I could imagine one… But I’d rather have a real one.
***I have my cave...
I myself don't go there but I send The Kid and the Table Kid there. Strangely it DOES help. Very strange, cuz doing that sorta stuff isn't usu. my thing.
I wear boots most of the time. I rarely am w/o a knife. I have trained myself to get over my aversion to physical violence to the point I feel I COULD in fact hurt someone as necccessary. I started packing a knife, wearing boots, when I was very young. Dunno why?
There are no guaranttees I guess.
Do you fear for your physical safety or more mental safety?
Nosey aren't I?
I goto go out and mow my lawn :-(
Its hot.
I'm perimenopausal and I SWEAT.
Sticky and yucky.
Don't like to dress too sparesly cuz of scars :-(
Sigh......
Hope you doing ok and I not setting you off or something. Sometimes I'm kinda stupid.
Sorry.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 14:13:18
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » muffled, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:38:12
> Funny story… I never showed him any of my injuries, but mentioned to him about the photos I took and asked if I could leave them with him. He had suggested I could leave something with him, and I thought of the photos. But when I mentioned it to him he looked quite alarmed.
***Have you asked him why he looked alarmed? I often make assumptions about what my t is thinking. She keeps teeling me to ASK and not assume.
I asked if it was appropriate and he said he didn’t know.
***So why couldn't he ask someone????
So I asked him to think about it, and I told him he didn’t have to look at them. But he never mentioned it again and I couldn’t bear to bring it up.
***Yeah, that why I fax stuff to my T. Though I don't think she 'gets' alot of it.
So I don’t know if he ever thought about it. He probably forgot. He’s good at forgetting. (I’m such a bitch.)
***I can be a bitch too :-) HA!!!!
Mebbe you could ask about it , if its important to you. Cuz this sort of stuff does mess up the 'theraputic relationship'(urgh! HATE that set of words!!!)
>
> > My GP etc. wanto put me on seroquel....
> > Mebbe you need a diff. med too if your still needing to SI so intensely?
>
> I’m starting to think it’s a good idea.
>
> > I want to wrap you up and make you safe and to somehow suck the hurt away from you :-(
>
> That sounds really nice :)*** Well, imagine me with my knife and hiking boots, sitting beside you on a wall. And we together so we safe. And we drinking coffee and harassing guys that walk by. And we safe and having fun. And its ok. And we ok.
>
> > You are smart and eloquent. Kind and considerate. Your just in a rough place right now. But its not forever.
> > Celexa made me SI much worse. Zoloft is ok at lower doses.
>
> The SI only became regular and frequent since Prozac. When I wasn’t on meds I hardly ever did it….***Alarm bells!!!!!!!!!! There are MANY AD out there. Unfortunately the only way you know how you personally gonna react is to try them :-( and find what works.
I ran out of zoloft, OH MAN! I been cranky! So I got an emergency 7 day supply from pharmacy and see my stinky poo GP (see I a bitch too!) on Fri.
>
> > Noboddy asks me bout me scars either.
> > My hand was all bashed, my GP didn't say nothing when I was there, cept 'want me to bandage it?.' I said no. Then later she phones mental health on me.....
>
> Grrr… I hate people who make assumptions. Why should she presume to call mental health if she hadn’t asked you about it?*** YEAH!!! I gonna piss on her CAR. Come up and help me!!!! ;-)
>
> > Mebbe when you want to SI you could send out a bunch of babblemails and if anyones around we can chat? Or that chat thing that replaced 'open'?
>
> I will try really hard to do that next time. I need to find ways of stopping.***Intense emotions require intense stopping mechanisms. Mebbe you can yell stop loudly, and that will seem so strange that you WILL stop and babble. Even if I got noboddy to talk to I post and reply and it gets me over the moment until I take benedryl and goto bed.
>
> Thanks so much (((((Muffled)))))
>
> Tamar
>
***Thank-YOU! Tamar
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 15:17:43
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 13:09:46
> You are not an idiot. I am really sad that you cut yourself again, and it really feels very painful for me personally to see you hurting so much. I love you, and you have helped me so much, and I feel I owe a part of my life to you and your thoughtful helping words which made my days so many time, and I wish I can make you see the worth in yourself.
I love you too. Thanks, Orchid.
> But I know it is a journey you have to make by yourself - no matter how hard the struggle seems. But you will get there.
>
> I do have a few questions that came to my mind.
>
> Have you cut yourself before you started your therapy the first time? You said it had been 18 years since your rape, did you cut yourself all the time before your therapy?I cut myself once when I was about 15 after a fight with my father. And then the first year I was married I cut myself a few times after fights with my husband. And then after I became diabetic and depressed I sometimes cut myself, again always after fights with my husband.
I started taking Prozac in November and since then I’ve been cutting myself more frequently. And in fact the frequency is increasing. According to my calculations I will want to cut myself again on Saturday or Sunday. I don’t know if anticipating it will help me to prevent it… We’ll see.
> IS it possible therapy is making it worse for you? I mean, you are saying you are cutting yourself more these days when you are back in therapy, and are gaining a lot of weight. So is it possible that therapy is actually making it worse for you? I can understand a downward turn in emotions for sometime before it starts becoming better when we go to therapy, but if the downward spiral is too much, then perhaps there might be a different way to bring out healing than probing further deep inside.
At the moment therapy is really hard, because my therapist keeps forgetting important things, like forgetting to be in his office at my appointment time. And the most recent cutting episode was partly about that. And I definitely want to make myself very ugly in therapy. And that’s odd because I don’t think my therapist is at all attracted to me.
> I also feel, that you have as much insight as needed for healing. Focussing further on gaining insights might not help much - it might actually make it worse (kind of make you wallowing in the mud and poking the sore again and again, and not really serve any constructive purpose). What you might need is more of a role model and a person who will serve as an inspiration to you. (be it your therapist or a pastor or some other friend whom you can confide in).Yeah, a role model would be nice.
> Maybe reading about some women who have gone through rape and sexual assault and who have emerged to be beautiful and happy might help. Also another thing that might help is reading novel about strong and powerful women who have gone through stuggles in life but who have managed at the end to emerge happy. I love Daniel Steels novels because the women in those novels go through suffering, but always emerge better than ever at the end. Maybe you can try if you would like.
It would be nice to do some reading… I haven’t read any novels for months. But my concentration is improving now. I read one of Danielle Steele’s novels a few years ago but I can’t remember much about it now!
> Also, another thing that comes to my mind is, is it possible, that there could be something else, other than the rape that gives you a low sense of self worth? Because as difficult as it is, a rape could be won by a woman if she has a good sense of self worth initially. It might be easier to toss out a rape as just an ugly physical accident if the woman had a good sense of self worth initially. I am not trying to minimise the impact the rape had on you, but I am asking you to probe into perhaps older and deeper issues that were there even before it. Like, maybe, your self esteem was damaged before rape - by your parents or whoever. Maybe instead of focussing on the rape itself, if you could probe into your childhood more, than there might be some answers there.
Well, there were several other sexual assaults before and after the rape experience. My therapist asked if there was something earlier than the rape, but I can’t remember anything significant. I think the thing that freaks me out at the moment is that things keep happening to me. And about a year ago something happened again. I probably didn’t say anything about it at the time… It’s a bit of a long story… and at the time I didn’t know quite what to think.
It was my friend’s partner (who I happen to work with). He exposed himself to me, and I looked away pretty quickly. And he treated it as a big joke, so I did too. And then after he broke up with my friend she told me how abusive he had been to her. And I had to see him a lot at work… So I just couldn’t face going to work for a few months. But I also thought I was being a total idiot because it was such a trivial thing. I’ve seen dozens of penises; what’s one more? And at the time it didn’t even bother me too much. Well, a little bit, but not too much. It was only later when I found out more about his personality that I felt really scared. And there was no way to avoid him at work. Anyway, he’s leaving next month, so I don’t have to put up with him much longer. But I feel particularly stupid because he propositioned me three years ago when I was pregnant (before he got together with my friend). So I feel as if he’s dangerous to me (and in fact to all women). Because if he thinks it’s OK to get his dick out and show it to me, where will he stop? But I can’t help feeling it’s my fault; maybe I didn’t say no emphatically enough when he propositioned me three years ago. Maybe he thought I was interested in him (I don’t know why…). Maybe he thought I was available in some way (I don’t know why). Or maybe he just wanted to intimidate me: to make me feel uncomfortable and afraid (which I happen to think is the most likely explanation). And I feel if I’m not safe from that kind of thing at work, I’m never safe from it. I’m completely sick of feeling unsafe. I keep wondering if I’m doing something to make it happen, but my therapist says (and I agree) that the people who do these things are completely responsible for them. And all adult men know that it’s not acceptable to expose themselves to women, so there’s no excuse. It wasn’t anything I did. And yet I’m still not safe.
> Another thing that might help is, in addition to emotional healing, it is also a good idea to start simulatenously other activities (positive activities side by side) so that whatever you achieve in therapy is complemented by an increased sense of well being that you derive out of such activities. Like enroll in a class, or learn music, or do painting etc. These things enhance our sense of well being, and will serve as a good support in addition to therapy.
That’s very true. I really need to do some more exercise, so maybe I’ll take up sport again. Although enrolling in a class sounds like fun… I’d like to learn Spanish, but I don’t know if I have the time. I’ll see if there are any classes starting in the summer.
Thanks for your response. It’s nice to know you care.
Tamar
Posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 15:40:15
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » orchid, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 15:17:43
Maybe it really is all about safety for you as you said below.
Perhaps you feel so very unsafe, that you think by making yourself fat (by gaining pounds) and ugly (by cutting yourself), you might be safe.
Could it be so? I remember having read that your father punched you when you were a child. Maybe that, and all the sexual assaults, really must have shaken the confidence about this world. And sometimes, we want to make ourselves the least likely target by making ourselves invisible and ugly. I know when I attained puberty I put on tons of weight. And looking back I think I didn't feel safe, and my overweight was my attempt to escape detection from anyone.
There is no reason why it should happen only to you all the time. But, perhaps because of your natural ability to understand other persons emotions, and your openness in talking about sex, your colleague (who exposed himself) or others could think of you as little easy. Also, when a predator sees a prey with a low self esteem, he somehow knows it and goes for it. So, your colleague could have sensed your issues about safety etc, and decided to use it to his advantage. I think he was a rascal. And it has nothing to do with you. But perhaps the part that you played was to be vulnerable. I know once a colleague of mine moved his shirt up to his shoulder to show his body to me, and I was very uncomfortable. But I didn't do anything to invite it - and he didn't do it purposefully also - he had just been to a Dr's appt, and I asked what was wrong and he did it to show what was wrong, but neverthelss, I felt very uncomfortable and after that pretty much avoided being in the same room with him in private.
>
> Well, there were several other sexual assaults before and after the rape experience. My therapist asked if there was something earlier than the rape, but I can’t remember anything significant. I think the thing that freaks me out at the moment is that things keep happening to me. And about a year ago something happened again. I probably didn’t say anything about it at the time… It’s a bit of a long story… and at the time I didn’t know quite what to think.
>
> It was my friend’s partner (who I happen to work with). He exposed himself to me, and I looked away pretty quickly. And he treated it as a big joke, so I did too. And then after he broke up with my friend she told me how abusive he had been to her. And I had to see him a lot at work… So I just couldn’t face going to work for a few months. But I also thought I was being a total idiot because it was such a trivial thing. I’ve seen dozens of penises; what’s one more? And at the time it didn’t even bother me too much. Well, a little bit, but not too much. It was only later when I found out more about his personality that I felt really scared. And there was no way to avoid him at work. Anyway, he’s leaving next month, so I don’t have to put up with him much longer. But I feel particularly stupid because he propositioned me three years ago when I was pregnant (before he got together with my friend). So I feel as if he’s dangerous to me (and in fact to all women). Because if he thinks it’s OK to get his dick out and show it to me, where will he stop? But I can’t help feeling it’s my fault; maybe I didn’t say no emphatically enough when he propositioned me three years ago. Maybe he thought I was interested in him (I don’t know why…). Maybe he thought I was available in some way (I don’t know why). Or maybe he just wanted to intimidate me: to make me feel uncomfortable and afraid (which I happen to think is the most likely explanation). And I feel if I’m not safe from that kind of thing at work, I’m never safe from it. I’m completely sick of feeling unsafe. I keep wondering if I’m doing something to make it happen, but my therapist says (and I agree) that the people who do these things are completely responsible for them. And all adult men know that it’s not acceptable to expose themselves to women, so there’s no excuse. It wasn’t anything I did. And yet I’m still not safe.
>
> > Another thing that might help is, in addition to emotional healing, it is also a good idea to start simulatenously other activities (positive activities side by side) so that whatever you achieve in therapy is complemented by an increased sense of well being that you derive out of such activities. Like enroll in a class, or learn music, or do painting etc. These things enhance our sense of well being, and will serve as a good support in addition to therapy.
>
> That’s very true. I really need to do some more exercise, so maybe I’ll take up sport again. Although enrolling in a class sounds like fun… I’d like to learn Spanish, but I don’t know if I have the time. I’ll see if there are any classes starting in the summer.
>
> Thanks for your response. It’s nice to know you care.
>
> Tamar
>
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:51:18
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » muffled, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 13:38:12
I think you ought to talk to whoever prescribed the Prozac to you. I started SI and did it most frequently when I was on Luvox. While Risperdal seems to help me stop SI.
Medication does have a very real effect.
If Prozac helps, maybe you don't need to stop it, maybe you just need to add something to offset the effects of it.
This is going to sound kind of silly, because I know you're probably relieved. But I'm sorry nobody noticed your expression of pain. And I'm sorry your husband's reaction was so much like my husband's reaction.
I *know* SI never has the intended effect of getting people to listen. I know it just makes the people in my life angry. But I sure wish there was something that was able to convey what I need to convey, and I wish that for you too.
(Was your therapist late? Or did he miss your appointment completely. Mine hasn't actually missed an appointment yet, and when he doublebooked once, it was the other client he asked to come back later, but he's late all the time.)
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:00:56
In reply to Re: Got in a fight with my Shadow (TRIGGER) » Tamar, posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 15:40:15
Do you know how to fight correctly?
Do you know how to use a knife effectively?
And be able to use it instantly with one hand?
Do you know how to be dead in your eyes and show NOTHING?
All these things make a person more confident that they have more power.
If you feel more confident, then you can often verbally get out of situations. Or de-escalate them.
There's no guarantees, but you can tip the scales more in your favor.
I saw a thing on TV where they had special self defense classes for women who had been assaulted. The focus was not only fight, but whole body language and self esteem etc. Wonder if there's anything like that around for you?
Might be useful?
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:01:44
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:51:18
Posted by caraher on June 12, 2006, at 16:39:48
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:51:18
> This is going to sound kind of silly, because I know you're probably relieved. But I'm sorry nobody noticed your expression of pain. And I'm sorry your husband's reaction was so much like my husband's reaction.I wouldn't assume nobody noticed it... all we really know is that nobody brought it up. That could be the result of nobody noticing. Or they might not know what to say. Or they might prefer not to make Tamar uncomfortable by "prying." Depending on how close she is to the people she works with not mentioning it might be a reasonably compassionate response.
It does sound like alternatives to the present treatment (drugs and/or therapy) need serious consideration. It's been more than long enough for Prozac to work, and if it might be making you worse in a significant way that's an especially powerful reason arguing for a change.
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 16:53:40
In reply to Self defense classes? » orchid, posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:00:56
>> Maybe next time I’ll win! Or maybe I’ll kick her *ss a little bit first…
>
> What d'ya mean by that ?
> Or mebbe you don't know ?
> Why d'ya need to kick her *ss?
> You can ignore me if I am annoying you!I guess I meant that there’s a part of me that I hate. And I feel like she wins when I injure myself. So if I could kick her *ss she wouldn’t be able to get me to SI. Or something like that. I talk strange sometimes…
> Do you fear for your physical safety or more mental safety?
Physical. Definitely.
> Nosey aren't I?
Nah… that’s just friendly interest!
> I goto go out and mow my lawn :-(
> Its hot.
> I'm perimenopausal and I SWEAT.
> Sticky and yucky.Ah, the clinging of the clothes, the sloshing of the shoes… Lovely summer…
> Don't like to dress too sparesly cuz of scars :-(
I don’t mind people seeing my scars when I’m feeling confident, but I find it harder when I’m feeling a bit low.
> Hope you doing ok and I not setting you off or something. Sometimes I'm kinda stupid.
I’m OK. You’re not setting me off. And I happen to know that you are extremely smart. I have ways of knowing these things!
> ***Have you asked him why he looked alarmed? I often make assumptions about what my t is thinking. She keeps teeling me to ASK and not assume.
Yeah, maybe I should just ask. Although he’s not very good at giving straight answers. Sometimes he does, but often he replies to questions in Therapist-Speak, so he manages to answer without really saying anything.
> *** Well, imagine me with my knife and hiking boots, sitting beside you on a wall. And we together so we safe. And we drinking coffee and harassing guys that walk by. And we safe and having fun. And its ok. And we ok.
I definitely like that!
> ***Alarm bells!!!!!!!!!! There are MANY AD out there. Unfortunately the only way you know how you personally gonna react is to try them :-( and find what works.
> I ran out of zoloft, OH MAN! I been cranky! So I got an emergency 7 day supply from pharmacy and see my stinky poo GP (see I a bitch too!) on Fri.If you piss on her car today, it’ll be dry and ready for more by Friday…
> ***Intense emotions require intense stopping mechanisms. Mebbe you can yell stop loudly, and that will seem so strange that you WILL stop and babble. Even if I got noboddy to talk to I post and reply and it gets me over the moment until I take benedryl and goto bed.
Ah! That’s a good idea. I will try that.
> Do you know how to fight correctly?
Oh yes. I play contact sport. When the referee’s not looking, anything goes…> Do you know how to use a knife effectively?
> And be able to use it instantly with one hand?
Never used one. I’m not good at stuff with my hands (except I play the piano and, well, you know...). If I held a knife I’d probably end up stabbing myself!> Do you know how to be dead in your eyes and show NOTHING?
That’s one thing I’ve never mastered. I think I will try to learn. I think it would be a useful skill.> All these things make a person more confident that they have more power.
> If you feel more confident, then you can often verbally get out of situations. Or de-escalate them.Usually the verbal thing works for me.
> There's no guarantees, but you can tip the scales more in your favor.
> I saw a thing on TV where they had special self defense classes for women who had been assaulted. The focus was not only fight, but whole body language and self esteem etc. Wonder if there's anything like that around for you?The funny thing is, I know that my body language is confident. Even when I feel unsafe, I walk with confidence. In the dark people sometimes think I’m a man because I’m tall and quite big. One time I nearly got a punch in the face from a man who thought I was another man (I started it by calling him a c*nt when he tried to run down two girls in his car). He backed off when he realised I was a woman, but I wasn’t going to run away! Actually, I’d rather a man punched me than showed me his penis. What’s that about?
Happy lawnmowing!
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 17:05:18
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:51:18
> I think you ought to talk to whoever prescribed the Prozac to you. I started SI and did it most frequently when I was on Luvox. While Risperdal seems to help me stop SI.
Yeah. It was my GP and I’m supposed to see her next week, and she was making noises about letting me cut down my dose, so that might help. Frankly I want to get off the stuff as soon as possible.
> If Prozac helps, maybe you don't need to stop it, maybe you just need to add something to offset the effects of it.
That would be a good alternative.
> This is going to sound kind of silly, because I know you're probably relieved. But I'm sorry nobody noticed your expression of pain. And I'm sorry your husband's reaction was so much like my husband's reaction.Thanks for saying that. It’s a strange set of feelings, isn’t it?
> I *know* SI never has the intended effect of getting people to listen. I know it just makes the people in my life angry. But I sure wish there was something that was able to convey what I need to convey, and I wish that for you too.
Yeah. I guess the problem is that words have failed to do it so far. I’ve tried lots of different words but they haven’t worked.
> (Was your therapist late? Or did he miss your appointment completely. Mine hasn't actually missed an appointment yet, and when he doublebooked once, it was the other client he asked to come back later, but he's late all the time.)
He’d actually completely forgotten about it. He’d forgotten to write it in his diary. So when I got there, the receptionist phoned him at home and he arrived about half an hour later. And this was the session after the one in which we talked about how upset I was that he forgot about my rape ‘anniversary’. So his forgetfulness is a bit of an issue for me right now. In fact, when we got to the end of our session last week neither of us had a pen, so he couldn’t write my next appointment in his diary AGAIN. I’m supposed to see him the day after tomorrow. I wonder if he will forget to show up…
I said I would phone him to remind him, and he said it wouldn’t be necessary. And I said I might phone anyway. But I’ve decided not to. I’ve decided I’ll give him this chance to get it right without my reminding him. And if he forgets, I will ask him to take me to supervision with him (tee hee).
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 17:21:41
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))), posted by caraher on June 12, 2006, at 16:39:48
>
> > This is going to sound kind of silly, because I know you're probably relieved. But I'm sorry nobody noticed your expression of pain. And I'm sorry your husband's reaction was so much like my husband's reaction.
>
> I wouldn't assume nobody noticed it... all we really know is that nobody brought it up. That could be the result of nobody noticing. Or they might not know what to say. Or they might prefer not to make Tamar uncomfortable by "prying." Depending on how close she is to the people she works with not mentioning it might be a reasonably compassionate response.I know. I'm probably projecting more than a bit. It was very recent for me.
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 17:29:40
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 17:05:18
> Yeah. I guess the problem is that words have failed to do it so far. I’ve tried lots of different words but they haven’t worked.
Yeah, I understand. It seems like I've tried being direct, and I've tried being bad, and I've tried covering up, and nothing really gets through, except maybe to my husband - and then not in the way I would wish.
My therapist says the right things. But he also encourages me to continue to try to meet my obligations at work, because doing that pays his bill (she says cynically).
And I can't seem to yell loudly enough to anyone that "I AM AT THE LIMITS OF WHAT I CAN DO! I HAVE TO STOP NOW!" And no matter how many times I say it politely, no one seems to hear.
I can be as understanding as I like about the reasons, but that only works at brain level.
I don't know if you're trying to yell the same thing, but I do know it's infuriating when no one hears what you're saying.
My therapist scratched me off his calendar once for a scheduled phone appointment and failed to inform me. It hurts, doesn't it? No matter how much we try to explain it away to ourselves, it hurts.
Why can't caring always be symmetrical?
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 17:36:05
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((Tamar))))))))))), posted by caraher on June 12, 2006, at 16:39:48
> I wouldn't assume nobody noticed it... all we really know is that nobody brought it up. That could be the result of nobody noticing. Or they might not know what to say. Or they might prefer not to make Tamar uncomfortable by "prying." Depending on how close she is to the people she works with not mentioning it might be a reasonably compassionate response.
You may be right. I guess I thought that I would be able to tell if people noticed: often people do a bit of a double-take if there’s something they’re not sure they’ve seen right. I’ve seen other people do it since I cut my face.
> It does sound like alternatives to the present treatment (drugs and/or therapy) need serious consideration. It's been more than long enough for Prozac to work, and if it might be making you worse in a significant way that's an especially powerful reason arguing for a change.
Yes. If I can get my GP to agree that the problem is the Prozac and not my depression…
Right, I shall attempt to get into my email now! Talk more later…
This is the end of the thread.
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