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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
The discussion today was about holding onto my center when confronted with things that make me question my own reality. Like:
I don't have to have sex if I don't want to. This is a really new and interesting idea for me. (New as in the last year, new.) I always thought that since I didn't like it, I should do what he wanted, because he knows best. My therapist said no way, no how...if I don't like it, I don't have to do it. He said that my husband might be right about me never wanting to do anything, but that doesn't change anything. I still shouldn't feel obligated. Really? Really??!!
I don't know how to hold onto what I know. My husband is really good at confusing me. So I asked my therapist to back me up on 4 simple statements: I don't have to consent to oral sex because he likes it. I don't have to give up my own space (my office at home) because he thinks I should be watching TV with him. I don't have to share what I'm talking about in therapy or in my journal, even if he thinks I'm keeping secrets. And I don't have to let him hurt me, even if the hurts are unintentional. By backing me up, I meant giving me permission to believe these things and not try to be "fair" or understanding about my husband's side.
He did, in a very straight forward way. And then I burst into tears. And I have no idea why.
So I need help. How do you guys keep your own center and not let someone guilt you into questioning yourself?
Posted by damos on February 15, 2006, at 19:04:30
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
Hey Daisy,
Wow that is big. And so great. I'm really happy for you and I totally agree with you and your T - he's so right that you don't 'have' to do any of those things. I'm only just learning to take some of myself and my space back and that everything I think and feel isn't wrong just cause it doesn't fit with what someone else wants. It's hard. So please don't beat yourself up if you slip on sticking to it once in a while, changes this big take time.
I have a pretty good idea why you cried. In your place I would have cried buckets.
Wish I had some good advice to give you about holding your centre, sometimes just being able to press the pause button so you don't get railroaded can make a difference, a couple of seconds can sometimes be all it takes to stop you playing the 'old' script and start writing the new one.
Good luck, you're a beautiful, valid human being who has the right to hold her own feelings and opinions and to say 'NO'.
Take very good care of you.
Damos
Posted by poet on February 15, 2006, at 19:12:54
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
Hi Daisy,
You wrote: *I don't have to consent to oral sex because he likes it. I don't have to give up my own space (my office at home) because he thinks I should be watching TV with him. I don't have to share what I'm talking about in therapy or in my journal, even if he thinks I'm keeping secrets. And I don't have to let him hurt me, even if the hurts are unintentional.
My husband doesn't know about CSA, so he thinks my lack of desire to have any kind of sex is AD side effects. I wish I could be more helpful with that one as I feel guilty about deceiving him. Though I don't want him to know, either.
I tell my husband that I need private time. He understands that if I'm babbling or emailing that I need this time alone. I'll spend time watching TV or something with him, but there are things that I need to keep private. It's not that I don't trust him or love him, it's that it helps me deal with things he doesn't know about.
I hope that helps. If I think of anything else, I'll post it.
Safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on February 15, 2006, at 19:54:42
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
I agree with your therapist.
To keep your center, you may need to be a little angry at your husband. Why does he demand these things from you when he knows you don't want them? Does he know? You may need to practice saying "I want to stay here in the office for a little longer. I'll come and watch TV with you later." "You hurt me. I don't think that you meant to hurt me, but you did, and I need you to figure out a way that doesn't hurt me the next time." "Yes, I'm keeping secrets from you. I know that you want to know what they are, but right now I need to have some things secret." "No, I don't want to have oral sex. I really don't like oral sex. I know you DO like it, but I really don't, so I'm not going to do it".
Practice your answers. And KNOW that you have the right to say these things. Tell yourself over and over that your therapist knows what is right. And Babble knows what is right. And know that you are worth it. You are worth having yourself stick up for yourself. (And you ARE **SO** worth it).
And Poet was right - you won't be able to do it all the time. But you'll get better at it, if you keep practicing.
And your husband won't like it at all. But he's had his way for how many years now? It is your turn.
Posted by fairywings on February 15, 2006, at 20:05:21
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
You did good daisy. Crying buckets is understandable. All the feelings come tumbling back, and your guts just kind of spill out all over the place. It's hard to confront those things.
My mom guilted me into stuff all the time, and I'd back down to her, then it was my mother in law. Just now I'm learning to say "you need to back off", or something that conveys that feeling when she crosses the line. Maybe just being prepared with some simple statments that will kind of throw him off balance will help you feel strong enough to stand up for yourself.
It's taken me years, it's horribly difficult. I still have a lot of trouble. I hope you find some things that help you stay in that place your T is helping you establish.
fw
Posted by annierose on February 15, 2006, at 20:21:16
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
Daisy -
Your therapist is right and I'm so glad you had this conversation. It is your body. No one can tell you what to do with it.I don't know how to tell you to stick up for your "center". It's something I became very good at as a child, to the point of not letting anyone near me. I agree with everyone. It takes practice. Listen to your inside helper --- that little voice that whispers in your ear, "this doesn't feel right". Trust that voice.
My husband and I have had very open discussions regarding sex, and that has been very helpful for both of us --- each knowing what we are comfortable doing with and to each other. Yes, he would like sex more often, but when he backs off, I am more open to his advances. It has taken YEARS to get to this point, and my therapist has helped me have these discussions, and my husband has listened and responded in kind.
If your husband doesn't know that you don't like oral sex, he'll keep asking. Fallsfall is right. He has gotten his way for years, it's your turn.When I got the courage to speak the truth to my husband about "my time" "my space" "my feelings" "my sexuality" --- it took awhile for it to sink in and it's still sinking in. I'm not going to change my mind. This is the way I feel. This is what I want. This is what I need. It's a learning curve. He still gets mad, frustrated, etc. But I'm not apologizing as much. And that feels good. After dinner, if my girlfriends want to go out for a movie, I would say "no" because I had to help the kids with homework and put the kids to bed. No longer. I ask my husband if it's a good night for me to go out, and now, he'll usually say "yes".
Keep working at it. He'll start listening because he NEEDS you.
You are so worth this fight!!
You are so special!!Love, Annie
Posted by madeline on February 15, 2006, at 20:40:57
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
I hate oral sex too, it makes me feel like I'm choking or suffocating or something.
As far as keeping your center try printing this out and keeping it with you all the time.
http://www.sidran.org/recovery.htmlI have it bookmarked on my computer and read it (even at work) when I need to, or if the thought just crosses my mind to.
You need to internalize this new autonomy and constantly reinforce it. Don't worry, it will happen and along the way you will relapse (we all do). But try to believe in yourself, and just sit with the notion "This is me, this is the rest of the world" a while.
If you need us, you know where we are.
Madeline
Posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger » Daisym, posted by madeline on February 15, 2006, at 20:40:57
Thanks you guys. This is so hard.
Hard to believe I don't have to keep the peace. Hard to believe that I'm so scared of what I want. And hating myself every single minute for being anxious and uptight about just doing what I want to do. Instead of what he wants me to do.
Falls is right...he doesn't like this. And we haven't even gotten to the sexual stuff yet. Or again. He doesn't know about the csa...but his behavior itself is enough to say no to. He wants me to stop therapy, he thinks my therapist is changing me for the worst.
I find myself wanting to trade -- using sex as the currency to be able to keep therapy out of the discussion. What does that say about me? And I don't really want to tell my therapist this part of it. I'm mortified.
:(
Posted by Voce on February 16, 2006, at 1:16:39
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
Dear Daisy,
I'm so so sorry you feel so bad. I don't blame you for crying buckets. Standing up for ourselves is the hardest thing in the world because.....often we don't think we deserve it.
I don't know a lot about your relationship with your hubby, except that it's negative a lot of the time. I'm really sorry and this may be the dumbest suggestion in the world, but might it help him understand this whole thing better if he at least knew you had been abused? Not going into details of course....but....would it help him understand you a little better? Or does he care about understanding you at all? Or would it make everything worse?
I know you and your T will know what is best.
All I can do is offer safe hugs and tissues.
You are so valuable. You deserve to be safe and happy and cared for.
Voce
Posted by annierose on February 16, 2006, at 6:26:04
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
He wants you to stop therapy because he is selfish. He doesn't want you to change. He liked the Daisy that didn't speak up, that didn't set boundaries. But that doesn't make you feel better. That's not the Daisy that you are becoming.
You are changing. You are upsetting the delicate balance marriage maintains. But that is okay. People should grow and develop. And our love and support for them should always be there.
Try not to use sex as a currency. Use words. Tell him that therapy is not going to stop anytime soon. Tell him "It is very important to me. I know you can't understand why but that is okay. It's okay for me. I need this right now. And I need you to be supportive, just as I am supportive of you and your needs."
(((((((((((daisy)))))))))))))
Posted by B2chica on February 16, 2006, at 9:57:34
In reply to I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 17:57:41
very good question. i actually am a little weary of your statements because they ring SO true to me also...
i feel obligated to do as my husband wishes, mostly i feel out of duty. i absolutely HATE oral sex but have done so to please him...i just want him happy. but i did fight for one space in our house that i paint in...i had to really fight and stand up but i did it and feel really great about it.
and my hubby always wanted to know what i was saying in therapy, luckily my friend told him several times that what i say to T is private, he's slowly learned to accept that but every now and again i'll feed him a little info...some of it lies but it keeps him at bay. and about the journal, for the first two years that i was journaling this was a BIG issue, he was constantly trying to read it and would be angry if he saw me writing in it. i told very first T about it but he never gave me any feedback. the next T (who just left) told me that my journal IS private and i need to make a boundry and keep it up. after several sessions talking about that i did. and finally my hubby still gets annoyed if he sees me writing but we don't argue about it anymore (knock on wood).
-and my hubby hurts me with words all the time but i think it has to do with him feeling out of control and he tries to hurt me to 'get back' at me. looking at it, it's pretty childish but there it is.
But i do love him and i think he's working on that.so my point. ..."REALLY??" is a very understandable response for me too.
i just feel like all i've known is so messed up and i don't know which end is up right now. i don't know where i can stand and where i can't.i really like your T.
so i guess after that long response my answer to your question is i don't know how to keep my own center. i'm constantly guilted into all kinds of things, including questioning myself....
my T said it's cuz i'm on a completely different level than most people in the way i think and they can't accept or understand it but that i'm good. and i shouldn't question who i am. and follow my gut.be good to yourself DaisyM, i'll stand up for you. i'll hold your hand and say 'NO"! and i'll repeatedly tell you there is NOTHING wrong with what you believe or think. you are a kind sensitive and very intelligent being.
protect that.(((((hugs))))))
b2c.
Posted by fairywings on February 16, 2006, at 13:09:26
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
If you can find the strength maybe just flat out saying, "therapy is non-negotiable, so it's not even on the table." Some things are "sacred", therapy is one. I agree with annie, your dh probably doesn't like the stronger daisy, but if he doesn't, then it's clear he's not looking out for what's best for you either.You really need to tell your T about the part you don't want to tell him. Seems that is vital info, and says a lot abt. your relationship with your husband - or at least it says a lot abt. your husband.
Controlling with anger is a sickness/abusive, will he get therapy for his anger? If you've answered this I'm sorry I can't remember. Could he take some kind of psychotropic to chill him out?
(((hugs)))
fw
Posted by madeline on February 16, 2006, at 16:27:04
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
Daisy,
I really don't want to pry, but why haven't you told your husband about what happened to you?Is there something here that I am missing?
Posted by Shortelise on February 23, 2006, at 12:31:04
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Daisym on February 15, 2006, at 23:23:03
Hey Daisy,
Were you crying from relief? To have such things confirmed, your rights in a relationship, your needs in a relationship, confirmed as acceptable and real, jeepers, who wouldn't cry? He threw you the lifeboat of reality checks - hop on board.
You chose a man who makes demands that you pacify with sex. Manipulates you to trade sex in order to get what you need. But did you do it intentionally? I think not. So where did it come from?
Daisy, is this a crux of things for you, is it a place from which a lot of your pain springs? Do you think that if you wade through the muck of this, this you might have to leave your marriage? Afraid that to be well could mean understanding that in your marriage you cannot be well?
This is all so hard. I feel for you so very much.
Posted by Daisym on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:17
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger » Daisym, posted by Shortelise on February 23, 2006, at 12:31:04
I didn't mean to ignore you...in fact I was pretty happy to see your name here. It was just hard and painful to see the truth in print.
Yes, I think I'll have to leave this marriage in order to fully heal. There are lots of obvious reasons why I chose my husband...obvious now, after three years of therapy. I've said a number of times that I wish I'd done this work before I got married. My therapist said if I wasn't ready, it wouldn't have mattered.
The other day I was frustrated about back sliding into a funk when "nothing was really wrong...nothing was broken." My therapist looked at me a minute and said, "your marriage is broken." Yes, there were more tears.
It is critical that I figure out why I can't leave just yet. I want to say it is for the boys, or about money. But in my heart of hearts, I know this isn't true. So why do I stay? I love him still, but it isn't enough. I think I'm hoping he will leave and spare me having to hurt him. I don't know how to hurt him.
Be well. I've missed you.
Posted by fallsfall on February 28, 2006, at 8:09:08
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger » Shortelise, posted by Daisym on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:17
Posted by antigua on February 28, 2006, at 8:26:23
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger » Shortelise, posted by Daisym on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:17
Oh Daisy, I've never heard you admit that you think you'll have to leave your marriage to get better. How that hurts, but it is so brave of you. I've often thought of this because my husband hasn't changed much and I've changed so very, very much. We have such a long history together (since jr. high) and I don't know what the right answer is--to give up that tie is such a scary thought.
I know you're suffering now, and you and your T are doing such great work. You're learning you can love, and that someone can love you back in the way you deserve. I don't mean w/your T, but I think you will see that just maybe it will/can transfer to real life.
I have so much I'd like to say, but that's enough for now. Hold on tight and think of those lovely boys you have.
love,
antigua
Posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2006, at 20:20:37
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger » Shortelise, posted by Daisym on February 27, 2006, at 22:38:17
One thing that has kept me in therapy is the incredible lightness I sometimes feel when I've seen through yet another ruse of my twisted psyche.
I am sorry that I wrote hard things that were hard for you to read. Sorry, too that I don't know you well enough not to know you were already aware of what I wrote. I never know, as I've said before, if it's better to say what I see, or just be supportive. You're pretty evolved so I feel ok writing things to you that might be hard.
I'm going back into obscurity now.
You too, keep well.
Posted by Daisym on February 28, 2006, at 23:01:25
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2006, at 20:20:37
Thank you for speaking the truth, even if it is hard. I wasn't criticizing you for writing it, I hope you know that. And it never hurts to be reminded of truths that are hard to confront.
Evolved huh? I like that. I think I'll use in in my self descriptions.
What I know is that as deep as these valleys are, they are not miles across anymore. It gets scary to go down but *if* I can get up then it isn't as hard to get out. Don't disappear completely. :)
Posted by 10derHeart on March 1, 2006, at 0:27:21
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2006, at 20:20:37
>>I'm going back into obscurity now.
:-( But I understand that choice.
I have always been particularly touched by many of your past posts. So I guess I'm selfishly hoping you pop back in soon. Somehow my hearts leaps when I see your posting name. It's like, "oh, good ShortE's back!!"
Wishing you peace and contentment. ((ShortE))
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2006, at 10:35:00
In reply to Re: I need some help -- trigger, posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2006, at 20:20:37
I echo what 10der said.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 6, 2006, at 15:26:37
In reply to Shortelise » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on March 1, 2006, at 10:35:00
It's quite nice having my very own echo sometimes.Especially when it's you :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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