Posted by tealady on October 12, 2003, at 22:28:40
In reply to Re: cortisol, testosterone » tealady, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 10:48:25
> They only do a.m. testing. Or twenty-four urinary analysis. Neither evaluates the diurnal cycling of cortisol, which is as important as total excreted, or morning concentrations.
>Well the AM test can tell a bit. The urine test is usually only useful for cushings
If you were diagnosed with chronic fatigue, did they do a morning cortisol?
> > > Maybe if I win the lottery, I can go to the States and buy the care I want. :-/
> >
> > ya, my dream too..reckon winning lotto is the top antiD.
>
> Winning the lottery would permit choices not presently avaialable to me.that's how it works
>
>
> One thing at a time, I guess. First, my prostate.
>
> > Also a good test for you would be 21 hydroxylase antibodies..but that is harder to get, not run by many labs and exxy (Larrian likes this one) I've got references you can show your doc if interested, ..mine aren't <g> I can't even find a lab in Oz that can run them. If you have these antibodies it can prove an adrenal problem..I guess you need a good specialist for this kinda stuff
>
> Maybe I'll get that, before too long.
>
> There is no way I can change doctors. Nobody is taking referrals, even if I could get one.yeh, I could only find one really good pdoc, and he wasn't taking new patients either
My present doctor, named Whatley, is known as "Wait and see Whatley" within the medical community. If something isn't clearly and overtly indicated, you ain't gettin' it.
Can you take along studies and emphasize your symptoms to show that the referral is clearly indicated?
>
>> > lately I've taken to internet searches for correspondence between docs in specialties I want, or looking up support groups literature of docs they use, then look up their treatment philosophies(usually not impressed) ..If I see intelligent questions asked/answered on the web I then try to find out what public hospitals (if any) they practise at ..and see then for free thru the outpatiets of the public hospital system.....you only have to convince a GP to write a referral here after you make the appointment. Problem here is they are soon stopping practising in public outpatients due to insurance coverage pricing etc.
>
> That's just what I tried, but it didn't work. My doctor would happily write the referrals. They simply came to nought.So he will write you referrals?
>
> > Not easy, is it. I told my GP I wanted to see a different specialist as this specialis thas an interest in the field covering what suspect may be my problem ..(only he hadn't wanted to refer me)...so he gave me a referral anyway, probably thinking he'd forgotten to note the specialist referral...pushing it a bit I know, but you must be allowed to see a specialist for a second opinion???
>
> Not without my doctor's support, no. Or some doctor's support, but you're not likely to get a referral to a specialist from an emergency room physician.That's not what I meant. I made some appointments where the specialists practise in the outpatient clinics of the major teaching hospitals ..THEN to get a referral from my doc to them after I make the appointment and try to give good reasons why this I need to see thuis particular specialist to my GP. It just seems to work better this way, otherwise I can't get the referrals. You're right emergency rooms would not answer.
Problem with this approach sometimes get to see the students, but they usually get checked over by the specialist..so you still have a chance of getting the tests you need run..and I get to see if I like the doc or not without using up too much money
> > Hope it goes OK and you fail all the tests big time..like they are come back negative
>
> Find out Tuesday.
>
> > BTW is intuition merely applied logic used against a background of experience? Sigh, that is disappointing if so.
>
> Intuition is an act of faith, IMHO. A sense of knowledge without needing to know why, or perhaps without any evidence at all. What you describe makes me think of the concept of an educated guess.Lar, that's a lovely definition of intuition.. re the educated guess..not much education or guessing needed
>
> > Re cortisol...you can buy it in cream form. It does absorb thru skin..but it's better to get the tests first.
>
> I've been on steroids for years, for asthma (budesonide). I know it has systemic effects, but again, nobody seems to be interested in checking me out to see the exact nature of the effects.hmm..one would expect that to increase your cortisol level as it's known to have systemic effects, as you say. Do you take all the time, or only occasionally?
I was supposed to have my kids and me on similar all the time , but I decided against that one..and kids grew out of it..and I'm fine now I'm on thyroid meds.
Did you read that Dr Derry thread on the thyroid forum..BTW if you do ever read it, click on "advanced view" at bottom of page to view 20 messages in one go>
>
> > Re Hydrocortisone cream ...
> > With the cream , I think I started with about the equivalent of 50mg worth..as you don't absorb it all and gradually reduced to about 10 mg worth over a couple of months. You MUST taper cortisol if used longer than a week, and cream should not be rubbed into same place on skin for more than a week ..due to skin thinning effects.. Also you have to watch your immunity as immune system suppressed while on cortisol.
>
> How would you know how to correlate skin cream and miligrams dosed? For example, I have 1% hydrocortisone cream, but how big a blob is what dose?
>
> > There used to be an adrenal forum too..but it closed a few weeks ago. There's a small adrenal section on the thyroid forum..
> > Don't be surprised if you need to treat adrenals to be able to treat testosterone..they work together (similarly with thyroid meds) You can invoke a addisonian crises with T3 if you take it with low adrenal function...
>
> Everything is linked to everything else. Messing with hormones directly is kind of scary for me.Should be too...that's why I think testing and a good specialist, even if out of area..is the preferable way to go
>
> > Ok, all above is from my memory only
> > Here's a post on the forum
> > http://forums.about.com/fatigue1/messages?msg=362.7Whoops , that link won't link..no idea how I posted that!
It was 10mg/g(1%) and there was 50g in the tube..so I started with about 1/10 of a tube..50mg as I doubt you absorb it all.
(in truth, I think the first day I probably used more than this..then cut back). You can judge what percentage of the tube you use..and there is no real reason to be that exact, as long as you taper off gradually.
It actually works quite well as is not as "sudden" as hydrocortisone tablets..it seems to release slower in a smaller dose. I used it in the end to get a smoother dose....rubbed on my inner elbow and inner lower arm mainly...although sometimes outer lower arm and just above elbow.(actually this was where my muscles were really sore anywayar the time) I have heard there is very good absorption in the neck area..but it may be too much except for an occasional needed sudden desperation -type boost.
I think I ended up taking the tablets in the morning and lunchtime..and then cream about 4pm ish ..to last thru the night.
Just tapered the cream down so only using a dab in the end...even after discontinued tablets, as a part of tapering off.
I still use very occasionally and it helps..although I seem to survive on those Dutch black cat lollies (salty licorice)...if anything I would say I'm highish on cortisol now.> Thanks. You've convinced me to pay for the testosterone panel too.
>
Sorry for the rant Lar. Just sounded like you'd given up in a previous post for some reason..and one has just got to just keep trying with all of this. "Your special, ya know" <g>Jan
poster:tealady
thread:259730
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/268814.html