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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by beatrix34 on July 6, 2004, at 22:22:38
It's been a while since I've seen a posting from you. Are you OK? Thinking of you.
Bea
Posted by antigua on July 7, 2004, at 13:02:23
In reply to 2ndXround...you ok?, posted by beatrix34 on July 6, 2004, at 22:22:38
Posted by 2ndXround on July 7, 2004, at 23:59:06
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok?Thinking of you too (nm), posted by antigua on July 7, 2004, at 13:02:23
Oh My Gosh!!!!!
HI!!!
I was so shocked to see someone had posted to me...not in reply to a post or beause I was asking for advice...but just because, because...well because they were thinking about me...I am in shock (now I have to be careful I don't get the keyboard wet from the tears running down my face)
I'm not exactly moving in the direction I planned. You know how people with addictions always find reason to stop trying and go back to using......I stubbed my toe, It's raining today, My car broke down..
Well, I am in a very unhappy marriage and I used that as my excuse....never mind that I have been in this marriage for 23 years and as far as I was concerned it ended years ago (when my husband ignored our family when our house was full of drugs, stolen cars, guns, police...denied it was happening...said work was more important...never came home) Since I have not had the courage to get a divorce, it seemed like a good excuse to blow my sobriety on.
I encountered another stumbling block when hubby told me to sign, don't bother to read ("Trust me") another loan application. I did that last year and found out I had taken out a personal loan for over $450,000...that he used for his business!
Sometimes I just don't have the strength to fight anymore. It is so hard.
I guess I have to put aside, emotionally, the marriage problem and work on staying straight first. If I do it the other way round I might not have anything by the time I reach sobriety again.
Please....POST again!!!! It gave me strength to realize what I was doing and try again.
THANKYOU
Posted by beatrix34 on July 8, 2004, at 23:03:37
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok? beatrix antigua » antigua, posted by 2ndXround on July 7, 2004, at 23:59:06
Whew! It's so good to see your name back up here. I was getting a bit worried. I don't want to lose another person to this disease. We DO care here for sure. I know the feeling of despair and loneliness. Please know that we are here to lend an ear, virtual shoulder, and do anything we can to try and support you through your struggles. Please keep coming back and posting. You have some things that you need to overcome with your marriage and guilt but it is true that the first thing that needs to be there in order for you to make any changes in your life is you...and your sobriety. Keep trying, I know it's not easy...just please don't give up. We care that you are here.
(((((((2ndXround)))))))
Bea
Posted by 2ndXround on July 9, 2004, at 7:54:47
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok? beatrix antigua, posted by beatrix34 on July 8, 2004, at 23:03:37
Hi
You are such a Sweetie! Thankyou.
I think the 'addicts' thinking is a trap I have fallen into again.
I was clean for over 23 years....and I had LOTS of stress in my life. My marriage was awful, I had 2 daughters who were teenagers, a couple of my best friends died (one from my old AA group) and I was starting to have physical problems (getting older....(:...) like a ruptured disk and nerve damage, I went deaf suddenly, degenerative osteoarthritis in my neck, shoulders and spine...a torn meniscus in my knee....lots of things that need surgery....(:....but I never used them as excuses to drink or use drugs....I didn't even think about it.
Now, being out of milk is stress enough to make me want to blow it!
Why is it so hard to stop this destuctive thinking???
OK...almost 6AM...I better try and get some sleep. I can't stop thinking about my daughter....she had an abortion last week.....and she was 6 months pregnant...
Thanks for posting...and listening.
Posted by antigua on July 10, 2004, at 15:25:40
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok? beatrix antigua » antigua, posted by 2ndXround on July 7, 2004, at 23:59:06
I'm really happy to hear from you. Remember, try not to be too hard on yourself because, as you say, you can end up using that as an excuse as well. For me, it doesn't really matter what excuse I use--if I want to use, I will. Usually I'm not even conscious of making the decision--I guess my mind is already made up and I think there's no use arguing. I really wish I understood it better--and understood how I make that decision to leap off the edge despite what I know it will do to me.
I recently met someone else whose situation is somewhat similar to yours. She was clean for 16 years and one day she simply went back to it. She denies there is a reason, it's just that she decided she wants to. I don't know how to help her. Do you have any words of wisdom?
On the lighter side (as if $450K is the "lighter" side, my husband made me meet him at the bank to sign for a $150K loan. He's bought another house and I sure as H@LL hope he knows what he's doing because my signature makes me liable as well and he makes so much money than I do!)
Is there any small change you can make in your marriage situation? Do you really not want to leave or are you afraid to leave? I certainly am not judging you; I have no idea what I would do in your situation. All I do know is that for me, the longer I remain sober the better I feel and the more confidence I have in myself and my abilities. Now if my husband tries to guilt me for something he "thinks" I've done I just tell him he's being ridiculous. My sobriety is too important to me now and I will not let him sabotage it (which he does on a regular basis, IMO).
Take care,
antigua
Posted by 2ndXround on July 11, 2004, at 4:55:14
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok?, posted by antigua on July 10, 2004, at 15:25:40
Hi Antigua
Exactly right....I probably didn't need any excuse, my mind way already made up. The stress I was under at the time (watching helplessly as my daughter was destroying her life by following in my shoes; my house taken over by drug dealers; money, credit cards, computers, cameras stolen; 24 hour survailance by police after being held at gunpoint, breakins almost every night; my husband looking the other way, in total denial...choosing to play golf while the police searched our home and arrested our daughter...and blaming me for calling the police in the first place because of a stolen car in our garage, drugs, loaded guns; telling me to stop complaining....).....I better stop, sorry.
But nothing will make me trust or respect my husband now....and the strange thing is, he doesn't understand! He acts confused like "What did I do?" when I tell him it's over! Even stranger is why I am afraid to leave.
I guess the familiar is less scary then the unfamiliar....even if it makes me unhappy.
I am really sorry to go on about things that have nothing to do with my using. But I am not going to delete it because it felt good to get (even a little) out.
I do think your friend is deceiving herself. After 16 years clean there was definitely something going on in her life that triggered her. It was not just a "Well, I think I will go back to hell again because I feel like it"
She needs to be a little more honest with herself. Something happened....
Think of it this way...at least you have a second house in case you need to get away....(:....all I have is a 3 story office building. Not quite as homey.
Gosh....you got my mind off my problems!!! Thanks!!!!!
You are great if you made it this far.
Take care
Posted by antigua on July 11, 2004, at 20:45:26
In reply to Re: 2ndXround...you ok?, posted by 2ndXround on July 11, 2004, at 4:55:14
Yea, I can see that the familiar is more comfortable, but.... what about the excitement and possibilities of the unknown? Who knows what's out there for you? A better life? A man who not only loves you but understands you? You could drop all the sh%t in your life and make a new start.
Lately I've been thinking about what my life would be like if I started over. It might be really great. I could MAYBE live the life I want to live, instead of the one dictated to me by overbearing personalities who crush me like a bug.
I know I have to be sober, though, otherwise it's all a pipe dream. SOmetimes now I can even see living the life I want w/in the parameters ofmy current life. I don't have to be pushed around and told what to do--and if someone else doesn't like it, they can just take a hike.
Not my kids, though, but I feel secure w/them. I've been pretty honest w/them so they know my life isn't a bed of roses. I try to make their childhood better than mine, and I think I have, but they'll face their own demons: I can't protect them forever.
Good luck, and post once in a while to let me know how you are. I care.
antigua
Posted by beatrix34 on July 11, 2004, at 21:30:53
In reply to Familiar vs the unknown, posted by antigua on July 11, 2004, at 20:45:26
Yeah fear of the unknown. That's a big one and where faith comes into play. Just the faith that everything will work out in the long run. I just made a huge change, quit my career, got married, moved to a new country. It took me 5 years of recovery to feel that I could even attempt this. It is not easy, that;s for sure. I really think that I needed to get me back into decent mental health before I even thought about trying to change things.
It is hard to do, but it is possible. Being clean is definitely the starting point in getting both the courage and faith to enable us to make these major life changes. It is suggested that there are no major changes made in the first year of recovery but I do believe that everyone needs to be in a safe place.
I spent a lot of time thinking about how you must be feeling about your daughter and the abortion. It made me sad to think that this was something that you and she were going through. I had an abortion when I was 22 and I know that it haunted me for a long while, the only saving grace that I had was that I knew that I was incapable of bringing another human into the crazy existance that I was living. I still live with the memories and the shame comes back to pay me visit. I was earlier on, only 8 weeks, and that seemed to make it a bit easier on me mentally. I can't imagine what you guys must be going through with her ebing so far along in her pregnancy. Try to remember that this is not your fault in any way. That all you can do is provide support if your daughter chooses to ask you for it. It must be something that is hard for you. This is one of those things that need to be out in the open and not stuffed away in your brain, So thank you for sharing that and don't feel bad talking about anything, we aren't here to judge you at all.
I hope your weekend was ok.
Bea
Posted by 2ndXround on July 17, 2004, at 4:15:52
In reply to Re: Familiar vs the unknown, posted by beatrix34 on July 11, 2004, at 21:30:53
Hi
I hope you are both doing good.
I am having a hard time staying clean...surprise. My older daughter (22) called me, crying, asking me to come get her. This is not the first time. She has been living with her boyfriend for almost 2 years. He is 35 has no job and is using drugs...while she is still at rehab 4 days a week and gets drug tested every week. I would say 'He beat her up" but the beating was mutual. I have never hit or slapped anyone in my life and I can't understand why they stay together. They both have black eyes and bruises....and I am having trouble feeling sorry for her. Instead I feel guilty...that I did something wrong as a mother and that is why she is in the relationship. She has a choice...right? She is the one who brought guns, drugs and people who belong in jail to our house and let them steal from us. She says she did nothing wrong...she blames me for allowing them to get away with it. I said I am to blame only for trusting her too much....but inside I feel she is right. I feel guilty...I'm her mother..I am supposed to protect her ... I should have known what to do.
Sorry....so she is staying at our house...and that means I have to give up my own bedroom and sleep with my hubby....talk about stress!!!
By the way....although I am hurt and angry at what she has done...I love her dearly....and she is not aware of my anger. I have always kept my pain and anger inside...and pretended everything was fine. I have made a fantastic door mat over the years.
I wonder if it is OK to let some of my anger out now. Let her know I am hurt and angry at her. She is 22, not a child. I don't want to hurt her...but it might help me if I can get some of this anger out. Less stress on me...but I don't want to hurt her!!!
What do you think? Should I stop protecting her at my expense???
Thanks for any help.
Posted by antigua on July 18, 2004, at 0:14:48
In reply to Re: Familiar vs the unknown Anti and » beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on July 17, 2004, at 4:15:52
I think you can lessen or reduce the amount of support so that she learns to start taking responsibility for her behavior. I would also suggest letting her know your feelings, if you can keep them civil, matter of fact and very calm. You could tell her that you're trying to help her by letting her take responsibility for some specific things, so she doesn't feel like you've totally abandoned her. After you have warned her, maybe the next time she calls for help you could deny her; the time after that you could help her, and so on.
I don't know, that may sound goofy, but you want to help her to grow w/o hurting her.
I'm so sorry things are so tough for you right now.
antigua
Posted by beatrix34 on July 18, 2004, at 21:13:45
In reply to Re: Familiar vs the unknown Anti and » 2ndXround, posted by antigua on July 18, 2004, at 0:14:48
Hi there -
I am sorry that things are so tough right now for you too. I would definitely say that you should try to let her know how you are feeling. This is the only way that she is going to learn to recognise that her issues are dirived from her own decisions, and they aren't solely your responsibility. If you continue to "help" her out of these situations you are only enablig her behavior, which is far more detrimental to her well-being and her future than letting her feelings get hurt in the present. When I got clean my parents asked me if I thought I needed help, then they suggested that I call my doctor to start my delve into rehab. I did this as well as talked to my HR dept and asked them to fund the rehab with company insurance, which they did. These events were some of the hardest things I have had to face (other than my true demons of the past), but they were also some of the best lessons I learned. I took responsibility for myself and admitted that my addiction and recovery were up to me. Please know that any harsh feelings that come from the initial confrontations with you daughter are sure to pass as she gets clean and takes herlife into her own hands.
Have you ever been to Nar-Anon or Al-Anon? These would be good support groups for you to attend to figure out the lines between caring for and enabling your daughter's behavior. They can give you the support you need to let her discover herself and start to help you get yourself back at the same time.
It seems that both you daughter and your husband place a lot of blame on your shoulders. It's no suprise that you tend to put that blame on yourself too...I think that's a natural response. Nar-Anon or Al-Anon may be some of the best rooms to be in for you through these times.
I hope that things pick up and that you are able to find the strength in yourself to break free of this chaos that is your life right now. It will get better but you too have to make your first steps toward making this happen. Remember, you are not alone with this stuff.
((((2ndXround)))
Bea
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