![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 16:52:54
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 10:32:38
Hi,
> -- Thanks. The hardest thing to deal with is the apathy and the lack of motivation. It seems, for the first time in my life, I am content just to stay at home, listen to music, keep the house clean and the laundry done, take my dog for walks, talk to friends on the phone, But, to go out and really do stuff just leaves me feeling flat. I don't know how to explain it. I have never been like this before. It's unnerving. For a while, I thought it was fear, but it's not that, it's like a Blah feeling. Yuk! :-(
Yeah, the apathy sucks. I do envy your ability or motivation to keep your house clean though. Mine is a nightmare. Wish I had the energy to clean it. It's good that you have a lot of motivation to socialize on-line at least.
> -- Well, don't forget, you have a thyroid condition to contend with now. I would think that would have some kind of effect on how we metabolize and respond to medications. I don't know, but I seem to recall reading that some thyroid medications increase the effects of ADs, which might explain the start-up side effects you are experiencing now that you didn't before.
I had the thyroid condition when I started on Effexor the last time though. I probably need to have my level of thyroxin increased. Maybe that plays into it somehow.
> -- That's what is so interesting and nice about those types of techniques - they can serve multiple purposes. Nice to know that you could well have a technique that you can use to deal with other problems as well. I saw the thread on the Alternative board about tapping. I didn't join in, but I did try it last summer. It was an interesting concept, but really didn't do a thing for me - and I did it daily for a week or two. Oh well, I like trying alternative things, so I don't regret having pursued it.So you're way ahead of me on the tapping. I'm bummed it didn't work for you. Did you try the EFT or Lambrou's techniques? Lambrou has things you can do when it doesn't work to reverse your polarity and correcting polarity disorganization etc. I wonder if any of that really makes a difference.
> -- I, personally, don't care what I look like in the winter anymore (well, the hat-head I could do without), as long as I am warm! I am used to the cold now. But, that first walk in the morning with my dog on a cold day can be a drag and a bit hard to take sometimes. Once I am out there and moving I don't notice the cold as much.
The cold can be invigorating. Also good psychologically to think that you've mastered the elements.
> -- Not much stops him! He did his first (and only) triathalon when he was about 60. He even had to learn to swim in order to do it. He finished it, even though he was the last one out of the water! Actually, the big joke is that he wasn't the last one out the water because his swimming coach (a friend of his) swam with him and he actually got out of the water last!A triathalon at 60? He really is something! Wish I had one tenth of his moxie.
> -- I have used Xanax for extended periods of time. When I first started getting sick, it was extremely busy at work (it's always busy, but we were going through a really caotic time for months and months) and I wasn't on an AD at the time, so I used my Xanax every morning before I left for work for a number of weeks (taking a break on the weekends though). I was worried that I would develop a dependence, but I didn't have a problem stopping (and I am a recovering alcoholic). I think that not using it on Saturdays and Sundays may have helped.
You were lucky. I took Ativan for 2-3 weeks - only a little bit at night to help me sleep. Then I went off it for 2-3 weeks and then I went back on it for 2-3 weeks. When I stopped it at that point all hell broke loose. My pdoc said that my body "remembered the Ativan" during the break I took from it. So I've been a bit afraid of using benzos ever since. I will probably have to use it for the move as well as for getting onto Zoloft and then spend a year trying to get off of it.
> -- Moving is a huge stresser! And, you are right, it is not the type of thing you want to deal with when you're experiencing overwhelming anxiety already. It's nice though that you have a friend you feel comfortable enough to share a house with. It's nice, too, to have another person around. I don't know, but it can be somewhat comforting. It will probably turn out to be a good thing in the long run. My younger brother lived with me for a year while he was saving up a down payment for a house. It was nice having him here (well, most of time :-)). That's a shame about having to sell your furniture though. I know it's hard to part with our things. I am not a materialistic person, but our "things" became a part of us and our lives in a way. Since you already know you will be moving in a couple of months, you can take your time packing - a litte bit each day, so as not to put to much stress on yourself. When I moved a couple of years ago, I did a little bit each day. Took my time, decided what I could or was willing to part with (you know, those sentimental things that we hang to for years, but take up space) and found it less stressful than previous moves.Yeah, I think that it will probably be a good thing for me to have someone else around now. She is a good loyal friend - a bit obnoxious and hard to take at times - but her heart is good. The reduction in my expenses will be good for me as well. The downside is that it will be her house and her furniture and her rules. Also she has terrible taste. Her apartment is so dark and cluttered. You wouldn't believe how ugly it is! (meow...) It will be interesting to see how all of our animals get along (to say the least). She has 3 cats and a parrot and I have 2 cats. (One of her cats and the parrot are quite nasty so I'm a bit concerned about that as well.) On the plus side, she is the one who did the reiki healing. I've been using my light box daily and I don't feel as good as after she did that healing on me. It might have been a coincidence. It's so hard for me to believe in that stuff. Unfortunately what ever it was only lasted two days. I haven't felt as good since.
I'm not so much concerned with parting with my furniture because I don't have much that's nice. I'd like to keep my couches but that's about it. I'm more concerned with how to sell the stuff. I'm too afraid to put an ad in somewhere and have strangers in LA coming into my place. It's just too dangerous. I guess there's a thrift shop kind of a place that I can call and they would come over and offer you some money for the stuff and then cart it away. That's probably my best bet - if they even want the stuff. I would hardly make any money that way though. I don't know. There's one end table that's probably worth something so maybe I should take that elsewhere. I don't know. How do people do this?
> -- I wonder if a some chromium in the morning and before bed might help combat the sugar cravings? It might be worth a shot. I have found my cravings for sweets have diminished since using chromium. This from a person who has considered peanut M & Ms and Orville's movie theatre microwave popcorn a balanced dinner!
I have some chromium here. I'll try adding it in to my regimen again. It's the GTF version though - I think other versions are better but I'll finish this one for now.
> -- That's a good idea about seeing if you can find a therapist through the free clinic. Therapy is so expensive. If you do pursue it, I hope you can find a therapist who compares to the one you had in college. The connection and the bond I imagine is so important to the success of the therapy. I doubt I would be considering therapy if my insurance didn't cover 80% of the cost. I find, too, that babble has helped me quite a bit, even just by reading posts and the responses to the posts. But, I agree, finding an IRL support group would be nice.Babble is great for information and for support. I've learned a lot about meds and supplements as well as receiving support. Previously I didn't have anyone in my life who understood or could relate to what I've been going through so I didn't talk much to anyone about it. My family was the opposite of helpful for most of this time. They saw me as lazy. They just didn't get it. I moved across country partly to get away from them. Ironically, now my mother is going through this. One day she said to me "Now I understand." You can't imagine how gratifying that was (even though I would never have wished this on her). She is finally responding to Effexor though so now she thinks that my problem is that I haven't given these medications enough time. I told her that I was on Effexor for several years but it still doesn't get through to her. GRRRR. She keeps thinking that if I just go to see a doctor more often that I'd get better. I have told her that I know what all of my options are at this point but that doesn't change her mind. So frustrating! (Sorry for the rant.) Overall though I have to say that my family is much more supportive now which is a blessing.
> -- Yes, books can be a comfort. I love it when I find a good book and I just can't put it down. I'm like my mom - I'll lose myself in a book (even if it is just a silly or trashy novel to some) and I just spend an entire day reading and and reading and reading until I finish the book. That's a drag about the Braverman book. Hopefully the Tolle book will be better upon first glance.
Yeah, even if a book is just escapism, it's helpful. I have a hard time starting fiction but once I do, I usually can't put it down. Most of the time these days though I'm more interested in reading something that's going to help me out of this rut I'm in.
> -- She was probably in her late 50s or even early 60s. She is a recovering alcoholic (she told me when I first started seeing her because I was in the early stages of recovery). But, she would have almost 30 years of sobriety (if I am remembering right), so I don't think she fell off the wagon. When I think back to my last appointment with her, I have to say now that she seemed quite distracted and not quite herself. She's a fighter, so I am sure she will be ok. It's just a shame that the medical community is losing one of the good ones.
That's way too young to have a serious health problem. I have a feeling that if the problem were alcohol related that she wouldn't close her practice for good - just temporarily. That's too bad for her and for all of the people in the community who will miss out on a wonderful doctor.
Speaking of doctors, when do you meet with that healer doctor? Should be soon, right?
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 20:21:29
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 16:52:54
> Hi,
>
> Yeah, the apathy sucks. I do envy your ability or motivation to keep your house clean though. Mine is a nightmare. Wish I had the energy to clean it. It's good that you have a lot of motivation to socialize on-line at least.
>
-- I have been spending way too much time on-line and on babble. I really have to cut down in the next little while before I return to work. But, it has been so nice to have a place to hang out where people understand and have been through, or are going through, similar experiences. There are a lot of nice people here. And, the past month and a half, I have been couped up because of the weather and not being able to get since I wasn't able to get a winter coat and mitts on because of the cast, so spending time on-line was therapeutic. Now I have no excuses. I can get out again, so I'll just have to push myself to get active. I'd like to try yoga, and maybe I'll try to go to a class a day or every second day for the next couple of weeks.
>
> So you're way ahead of me on the tapping. I'm bummed it didn't work for you. Did you try the EFT or Lambrou's techniques? Lambrou has things you can do when it doesn't work to reverse your polarity and correcting polarity disorganization etc. I wonder if any of that really makes a difference.
>
-- I tried the EFT. Perhaps I should look into Lambrou's techniques and give it another go one day.of time. I actually thought it was working at first, but then I had a really bad day and the tapping didn't make a dent in the anxiety. But, that was when I was taking L-Glutamine and was having a bad reaction to Depo. After about two weeks of use, I found that the L-Glutamine made me quite wired and jittery. It was very unpleasant.
>
> You were lucky. I took Ativan for 2-3 weeks - only a little bit at night to help me sleep. Then I went off it for 2-3 weeks and then I went back on it for 2-3 weeks. When I stopped it at that point all hell broke loose. My pdoc said that my body "remembered the Ativan" during the break I took from it. So I've been a bit afraid of using benzos ever since. I will probably have to use it for the move as well as for getting onto Zoloft and then spend a year trying to get off of it.
>
-- Maybe if you tried skipping a couple of days instead of using it for 2 - 3 weeks straight you might not build up such a tolerance. But, everybody responds to differently to benzos, what works for one won't be effective for another (as you well know). I'm just glad that I have it when I need it. And, I'm sure it will be a blessing for you when you move.
>
> Yeah, I think that it will probably be a good thing for me to have someone else around now. She is a good loyal friend - a bit obnoxious and hard to take at times - but her heart is good. The reduction in my expenses will be good for me as well. The downside is that it will be her house and her furniture and her rules. Also she has terrible taste. Her apartment is so dark and cluttered. You wouldn't believe how ugly it is! (meow...) It will be interesting to see how all of our animals get along (to say the least). She has 3 cats and a parrot and I have 2 cats. (One of her cats and the parrot are quite nasty so I'm a bit concerned about that as well.) On the plus side, she is the one who did the reiki healing. I've been using my light box daily and I don't feel as good as after she did that healing on me. It might have been a coincidence. It's so hard for me to believe in that stuff. Unfortunately what ever it was only lasted two days. I haven't felt as good since.
>
-- As long as she means well, that's the important thing. And, when she gets on your nerves, you have your own space to go to to get away. It's nice too that you will be saving on expenses. That's always a relief. Too bad about her taste though :-(. Once you get settled, maybe you can start making some subtle suggestions to help un-ugly the place (meow meow) :-) Try to get her hooked on Trading Spaces or Divine Design to get her thinking. As for the reiki, I guess you won't know if it was a coincidence until you have the opportunity to have another session. I hope when you have another session you get positive results again.OMG, I just had a little bit of a freak-out. I hadn't locked my front door, and, while I was typing away, I heard the front door opening. I hustled over to the front door, and there is some guy starting to come into my house! Oops. Sorry he says, wrong house??? Whaaaaaaat the . . . .!!! I don't usually worry about those things. I live in a pretty good neighborhood and have gone to bed a few times with the front door unlocked. Now I feel all nervous. I am letting my imagination run away with me. Ok, deep breaths, deep breaths, deep breaths.
>
> I'm not so much concerned with parting with my furniture because I don't have much that's nice. I'd like to keep my couches but that's about it. I'm more concerned with how to sell the stuff. I'm too afraid to put an ad in somewhere and have strangers in LA coming into my place. It's just too dangerous. I guess there's a thrift shop kind of a place that I can call and they would come over and offer you some money for the stuff and then cart it away. That's probably my best bet - if they even want the stuff. I would hardly make any money that way though. I don't know. There's one end table that's probably worth something so maybe I should take that elsewhere. I don't know. How do people do this?
>
-- I understand your concern about the ad. I wouldn't want strangers coming to my place. Your best bet is probably second hand store(s). If you think the end table might be worth something, then you might want to try to get it to an antique store/dealer for an appraisal. It would be a shame for you not to get what it is worth. When I was getting rid of things, my brother and some friends knew of people who were interested in some of things I was selling, so I was comfortable with them coming over because people I knew could vouch for them.
>
> > I have some chromium here. I'll try adding it in to my regimen again. It's the GTF version though - I think other versions are better but I'll finish this one for now.
>
-- I've been using the GTF version, and it seems to work fine.
>
> Babble is great for information and for support. I've learned a lot about meds and supplements as well as receiving support. Previously I didn't have anyone in my life who understood or could relate to what I've been going through so I didn't talk much to anyone about it. My family was the opposite of helpful for most of this time. They saw me as lazy. They just didn't get it. I moved across country partly to get away from them. Ironically, now my mother is going through this. One day she said to me "Now I understand." You can't imagine how gratifying that was (even though I would never have wished this on her). She is finally responding to Effexor though so now she thinks that my problem is that I haven't given these medications enough time. I told her that I was on Effexor for several years but it still doesn't get through to her. GRRRR. She keeps thinking that if I just go to see a doctor more often that I'd get better. I have told her that I know what all of my options are at this point but that doesn't change her mind. So frustrating! (Sorry for the rant.) Overall though I have to say that my family is much more supportive now which is a blessing.
>
-- Lack of support and understanding certainly don't make it easier to go through and recover from depression and anxiety. My family can have their heads in the sand at times, which can be very frustrating and only makes me feel worse. They just can't seem to accept that I am going through this. So, they were spending a lot of time trying to convince me that nothing was wrong and all I have been doing is making myself sicker by taking medication. My mom has always been mildly depressed ever since I was a kid - sleeping a lot, pessimistic, lack of motivation. She says that's the way she has always been and there's nothing wrong with her. OK. Mothers eh! GRRRR is right! -:) It must be somewhat of a mixed blessing for you - your mother understanding what you've gone through and are going through, but now having an opinion on how you are handling your med trials. Rant away Kara :-) One day I'll be ranting about my mom, and then you'll be sorry (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that your family has become much more supportive. It really does make a huge difference.
>
> Speaking of doctors, when do you meet with that healer doctor? Should be soon, right?
>
-- I was told to call to make another appointment for early March. So, I will call next week to set something up. I had almost forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me! I'm looking forward to it.Take care. I'll talk to you soon.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 23:27:39
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 20:21:29
> > Hi,
> -- I have been spending way too much time on-line and on babble. I really have to cut down in the next little while before I return to work. But, it has been so nice to have a place to hang out where people understand and have been through, or are going through, similar experiences. There are a lot of nice people here. And, the past month and a half, I have been couped up because of the weather and not being able to get since I wasn't able to get a winter coat and mitts on because of the cast, so spending time on-line was therapeutic. Now I have no excuses. I can get out again, so I'll just have to push myself to get active. I'd like to try yoga, and maybe I'll try to go to a class a day or every second day for the next couple of weeks.
I hope that once you start work you'll still come here to talk. You would be very missed if you didn't. Besides we can still offer you a lot of support as you enter back into the work world. But it will be better for you to have more outside interests as well.
> -- I tried the EFT. Perhaps I should look into Lambrou's techniques and give it another go one day.of time. I actually thought it was working at first, but then I had a really bad day and the tapping didn't make a dent in the anxiety. But, that was when I was taking L-Glutamine and was having a bad reaction to Depo. After about two weeks of use, I found that the L-Glutamine made me quite wired and jittery. It was very unpleasant.
I doubt that the accupressure would work against a drug or supplement that was making things worse. Maybe without that kind of negative influence, you might succeed with it. Then again, maybe it just wasn't for you. I'll let you know if I have more success.
> -- As long as she means well, that's the important thing. And, when she gets on your nerves, you have your own space to go to to get away. It's nice too that you will be saving on expenses. That's always a relief. Too bad about her taste though :-(. Once you get settled, maybe you can start making some subtle suggestions to help un-ugly the place (meow meow) :-) Try to get her hooked on Trading Spaces or Divine Design to get her thinking. As for the reiki, I guess you won't know if it was a coincidence until you have the opportunity to have another session. I hope when you have another session you get positive results again.
Yeah, I'll have my own room to go to and we'll probably be on different schedules so it'll be ok. As for her taste, she thinks she has the best taste. She works in catering and she goes to the homes of really wealthy people. I've worked a couple of times with her so I know that she sees houses that are beautifully decorated. How she can't tell the difference between that and her place is beyond me. She also sets up buffet tables and seated tables and decorates them nicely for her job so she thinks she's an artist and that her taste is wonderful. You'd really have to see her place to believe how ugly it is. Everything is dark, very dark, wtih barely an inch of free space anywhere. Horrible dark old pictures are on the wall. I tell her outright how horrible her taste is. I tell her to get rid of certain really ugly things. She just laughs it off. She has decided that I just don't appreciate her good taste. (Everyone I know of who has seen her place thinks it's horrendous so it's not just my opinion.)
> OMG, I just had a little bit of a freak-out. I hadn't locked my front door, and, while I was typing away, I heard the front door opening. I hustled over to the front door, and there is some guy starting to come into my house! Oops. Sorry he says, wrong house??? Whaaaaaaat the . . . .!!! I don't usually worry about those things. I live in a pretty good neighborhood and have gone to bed a few times with the front door unlocked. Now I feel all nervous. I am letting my imagination run away with me. Ok, deep breaths, deep breaths, deep breaths.
Wow, that's scary!!! Since you continued writing I'm assuming that it all turned out ok. I bet you'll be keeping your door shut and locked from now on...
> -- I understand your concern about the ad. I wouldn't want strangers coming to my place. Your best bet is probably second hand store(s). If you think the end table might be worth something, then you might want to try to get it to an antique store/dealer for an appraisal. It would be a shame for you not to get what it is worth. When I was getting rid of things, my brother and some friends knew of people who were interested in some of things I was selling, so I was comfortable with them coming over because people I knew could vouch for them.I'll have to see what I can do. Unfortunately I just don't have the energy to go shopping around for the best deals. I just want the stuff gone and I don't want to have to worry about where to store it. My anxiety is creeping up just thinking about it all.
> -- I've been using the GTF version, and it seems to work fine.
Ok, good, I'll use that then.
> -- Lack of support and understanding certainly don't make it easier to go through and recover from depression and anxiety. My family can have their heads in the sand at times, which can be very frustrating and only makes me feel worse. They just can't seem to accept that I am going through this. So, they were spending a lot of time trying to convince me that nothing was wrong and all I have been doing is making myself sicker by taking medication. My mom has always been mildly depressed ever since I was a kid - sleeping a lot, pessimistic, lack of motivation. She says that's the way she has always been and there's nothing wrong with her. OK. Mothers eh! GRRRR is right! -:) It must be somewhat of a mixed blessing for you - your mother understanding what you've gone through and are going through, but now having an opinion on how you are handling your med trials. Rant away Kara :-) One day I'll be ranting about my mom, and then you'll be sorry (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that your family has become much more supportive. It really does make a huge difference.How frustrating for you that they won't accept what you're going through. It's hard enough with this condition without having to prove that you really have a problem. I think that with mothers they worry that they might have done something wrong and are responsible if we don't do well or they'd prefer to think that they didn't pass on any genetic predisposition towards this. It's too scary for them to even consider it.
> -- I was told to call to make another appointment for early March. So, I will call next week to set something up. I had almost forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me! I'm looking forward to it.I can't wait to hear what he has to say and whether he can in fact make a difference with these kinds of problems.
Talk to you later,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 26, 2005, at 9:01:49
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 23:27:39
> > > Hi,
>
>
> I hope that once you start work you'll still come here to talk. You would be very missed if you didn't. Besides we can still offer you a lot of support as you enter back into the work world. But it will be better for you to have more outside interests as well.
>
-- You are very kind, thanks. I know I will still be able to visit babble. The emphathy, support and good advice have been a Godsend these past number of months. I had put my outside interests on hold for a while, but I think I just needed a break from it all. So, I will ease my way back in . . . slowly. Try not to go full force like I usually do.
>
> I doubt that the accupressure would work against a drug or supplement that was making things worse. Maybe without that kind of negative influence, you might succeed with it. Then again, maybe it just wasn't for you. I'll let you know if I have more success.
>
-- The tapping sure didn't. I was tapping, and tapping and tapping . . . It just wouldn't stop the extreme agitation and racing thoughts I was experiencing. And, my boss was coming over for lunch that day. I was so worried that he'd get here and I would be all agitated and talking a mile a minute, etc. I finally had to take a Xanax. That worked - phew!
>
> Yeah, I'll have my own room to go to and we'll probably be on different schedules so it'll be ok. As for her taste, she thinks she has the best taste. She works in catering and she goes to the homes of really wealthy people. I've worked a couple of times with her so I know that she sees houses that are beautifully decorated. How she can't tell the difference between that and her place is beyond me. She also sets up buffet tables and seated tables and decorates them nicely for her job so she thinks she's an artist and that her taste is wonderful. You'd really have to see her place to believe how ugly it is. Everything is dark, very dark, wtih barely an inch of free space anywhere. Horrible dark old pictures are on the wall. I tell her outright how horrible her taste is. I tell her to get rid of certain really ugly things. She just laughs it off. She has decided that I just don't appreciate her good taste. (Everyone I know of who has seen her place thinks it's horrendous so it's not just my opinion.)
>
-- I guess your friend has never heard of the concept "less is more" :-) How can people be so oblivious? Well, to get a message across that might sink in, you could always send a picture of her living room to Oprah for her "The Ugliest Room in America" segment. Now, if Oprah says it's ugly, then she'll have to wake up and smell the coffee! (double meow). But seriously, at least you know you can be blunt and honest with her about things. That will make a big difference when you are sharing a place with her. I hope it works out for you.
>
>
> Wow, that's scary!!! Since you continued writing I'm assuming that it all turned out ok. I bet you'll be keeping your door shut and locked from now on...
>
-- Crisis averted. I managed to calm down, in spite of the fact that my dog, every ten minutes or so, kept running from the front door to the patio door barking. She never barks, and every time she did, I just about jumped out of my skin. I had a flashback to when I was ten years old and I was home alone with my baby brother while I parents had gone to the store. So, I'm sitting there and these two guys come to the door. One of the says "Is your daddy home?" No. "Is your mommy home?" No. "Well, we've come to rob the house!" I went nuts! Screaming and yelling, and terrified that they would hurt my baby brother who I had been entrusted to take care of. Anyway, the next door neighbors (aunt and uncle who are not really but called that because they are such good friends) come running over. This guy is totally embarrassed, and finally manages to tell us that he was just there to pick up field markers for an upcoming soccer tournament (my dad was very active in the soccer association at the time). Needless to say, he never showed his face at our place again!>
>
> I'll have to see what I can do. Unfortunately I just don't have the energy to go shopping around for the best deals. I just want the stuff gone and I don't want to have to worry about where to store it. My anxiety is creeping up just thinking about it all.
>
-- One step at a time. Just give yourself small, move-related goals for each day or every few days. You will get through this. And, the nice thing is is that you have a couple of months to get ready. So, that takes some of the pressure off. And, when it is over, you can breath a sigh of relief.
>
> How frustrating for you that they won't accept what you're going through. It's hard enough with this condition without having to prove that you really have a problem. I think that with mothers they worry that they might have done something wrong and are responsible if we don't do well or they'd prefer to think that they didn't pass on any genetic predisposition towards this. It's too scary for them to even consider it.
>
-- They have been a bit better lately. The heads have come out of the sand a bit. I have, for the most part, always been so active and upbeat that they just aren't used to it. They tend to depend on me for calm reassurance and positive reinforcement, especially my mom and my younger brother. My younger brother can not handle it when I am sick. He gets so upset. I think if my mom would just accept her dysthamia, then she would be more empathetic. But, as far as she's concerned, that's what life is all about and you just keep muddling through. I know it must be hard for a parent when one of their children goes through any illness. The need and instinct to protect and make everything better is so strong in a lot of parents.
>
> I can't wait to hear what he has to say and whether he can in fact make a difference with these kinds of problems.
>
-- I'm hoping he can help. He seems to have quite a following, so he must be doing something right.
> Talk to you again soon. Take care,Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 26, 2005, at 15:04:25
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 26, 2005, at 9:01:49
Hi,
> -- You are very kind, thanks. I know I will still be able to visit babble. The emphathy, support and good advice have been a Godsend these past number of months. I had put my outside interests on hold for a while, but I think I just needed a break from it all. So, I will ease my way back in . . . slowly. Try not to go full force like I usually do.
Sounds like a good plan.
> -- The tapping sure didn't. I was tapping, and tapping and tapping . . . It just wouldn't stop the extreme agitation and racing thoughts I was experiencing. And, my boss was coming over for lunch that day. I was so worried that he'd get here and I would be all agitated and talking a mile a minute, etc. I finally had to take a Xanax. That worked - phew!
I think if it's that acute, the tapping probably won't work. I'd be very interested in hearing about someone who has been able to get that much of an effect that quickly. Thank God for Xanax for crisis situations!
I don't expect the tapping to help me get on Zoloft unfortunately. When a medication is causing something it's not a matter of your energy being blocked, so what good could the tapping do? At least that's the way that I'm looking at it. I don't really know if that is the case.
> -- I guess your friend has never heard of the concept "less is more" :-) How can people be so oblivious? Well, to get a message across that might sink in, you could always send a picture of her living room to Oprah for her "The Ugliest Room in America" segment. Now, if Oprah says it's ugly, then she'll have to wake up and smell the coffee! (double meow). But seriously, at least you know you can be blunt and honest with her about things. That will make a big difference when you are sharing a place with her. I hope it works out for you.
That's so funny that you mentioned Oprah's ugliest room shows because I have really wanted to send in a picture of her livingroom. It would win hands down!! It's far uglier than anything I've seen on Oprah. My friend would be extremely upset about it though so I haven't done it. I'll just have to continue with my subtle messages ("Those drapes are atrocious! Please tell me you're not going to put those up in the new house!") :-)
I just heard bad news earlier this morning though. The deal is off. The sleezoid realtor accepted a higher offer - and this is after my friend already put money down! That should be illegal but apparently it isn't. My friend is up there at the complex now looking at some more units. It actually may end up better for me as she's now looking at 2 car gargages and one that has a second bedroom with a big walk-in closet.
Keep your fingers crossed for us!
> -- Crisis averted. I managed to calm down, in spite of the fact that my dog, every ten minutes or so, kept running from the front door to the patio door barking. She never barks, and every time she did, I just about jumped out of my skin. I had a flashback to when I was ten years old and I was home alone with my baby brother while I parents had gone to the store. So, I'm sitting there and these two guys come to the door. One of the says "Is your daddy home?" No. "Is your mommy home?" No. "Well, we've come to rob the house!" I went nuts! Screaming and yelling, and terrified that they would hurt my baby brother who I had been entrusted to take care of. Anyway, the next door neighbors (aunt and uncle who are not really but called that because they are such good friends) come running over. This guy is totally embarrassed, and finally manages to tell us that he was just there to pick up field markers for an upcoming soccer tournament (my dad was very active in the soccer association at the time). Needless to say, he never showed his face at our place again!>That's unbelievable. What a moron! He actually thought that was a funny line to use with children! No wonder you were so scared the other day.
> -- One step at a time. Just give yourself small, move-related goals for each day or every few days. You will get through this. And, the nice thing is is that you have a couple of months to get ready. So, that takes some of the pressure off. And, when it is over, you can breath a sigh of relief.
Yeah, I guess you're right. It's the only way to try to do it. It's overwhelming to me right now because I'm looking at everything that will need to be done. I just can't wait for it to be over though.
> -- They have been a bit better lately. The heads have come out of the sand a bit. I have, for the most part, always been so active and upbeat that they just aren't used to it. They tend to depend on me for calm reassurance and positive reinforcement, especially my mom and my younger brother. My younger brother can not handle it when I am sick. He gets so upset. I think if my mom would just accept her dysthamia, then she would be more empathetic. But, as far as she's concerned, that's what life is all about and you just keep muddling through. I know it must be hard for a parent when one of their children goes through any illness. The need and instinct to protect and make everything better is so strong in a lot of parents.
It definitely takes time for them to adjust if your role in the family has changed. I was never really the caretaker in my family. I bet it's hard to be a parent - knowing when to step in and when to step back esp. when you care so much. It's too bad that your mom can't recognize her condition and seek to improve her life but there's even more of a stigma for people in her generation (in terms of how they perceive it).
> -- I'm hoping he can help. He seems to have quite a following, so he must be doing something right.
It's so appealing to believe that someone can just wave their hand or say a magical spell and all of our problems will instantly disappear. I would love to experience that kind of miracle for so many reasons. If he helps you, you have to give me his contact info!
Take care,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 8:36:32
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 26, 2005, at 15:04:25
Hi,
I don't expect the tapping to help me get on Zoloft unfortunately. When a medication is causing something it's not a matter of your energy being blocked, so what good could the tapping do? At least that's the way that I'm looking at it. I don't really know if that is the case.
-- You are probably right. I can't see how it would be effective against medication-induced side effects. I guess it might help calm a person down enough to endure the side effects. But, it's unlike to eliminate the side effects.
>>I really wanted to send in a picture of her livingroom. It would win hands down!! It's far uglier than anything I've seen on Oprah. My friend would be extremely upset about it though so I haven't done it. I'll just have to continue with my subtle messages ("Those drapes are atrocious! Please tell me you're not going to put those up in the new house!") :-)
-- Maybe the fact that it is a new place that you both will be moving into will give you a chance to influence the decor a bit and make the place nice and bright. If not, then the subtle hints may sink in one day. Persistence may pay off eventually :-)
I just heard bad news earlier this morning though. The deal is off. The sleezoid realtor accepted a higher offer - and this is after my friend already put money down! That should be illegal but apparently it isn't. My friend is up there at the complex now looking at some more units. It actually may end up better for me as she's now looking at 2 car gargages and one that has a second bedroom with a big walk-in closet. Keep your fingers crossed for us!
-- That is appalling! Had she signed a lease or a contract? Or was it a verbal agreement with a down payment? Either way, it is a pretty sleezy thing to do. It's incredible what some landlords will stoop to. Some people's lack of ethics is astounding at times. Well, I guess unless she is willing to take legal action, I suppose there would be nothing she could do. But, maybe it was meant to be if you guys now have the opportunity for a bigger place, with a better room for you (and a walk-in closet - I would love a walk-in closet!). That would be great! I'll will certainly keep my fingers crossed for you.
>>Yeah, I guess you're right. It's the only way to try to do it. It's overwhelming to me right now because I'm looking at everything that will need to be done. I just can't wait for it to be over though.
-- It is overwhelming when you think of everything that has to be done. I guess if you just made a list of the stuff that needs to be done, it wouldn't all be spinning around in your head as much. Then you can check things off and see yourself making progress. It might minimize the distress a bit. Sometimes just getting our thinking organized so we can prioritize helps calm us down and helps us realize that we can do it - one step, one box at a time.
>>It definitely takes time for them to adjust if your role in the family has changed. I was never really the caretaker in my family. I bet it's hard to be a parent - knowing when to step in and when to step back esp. when you care so much. It's too bad that your mom can't recognize her condition and seek to improve her life but there's even more of a stigma for people in her generation (in terms of how they perceive it).
-- I have always wanted kids, but it scares me that maybe I just wouldn't be good at it. And then there is the whole worry thing. It would probably suck the life right out of me. I would always be worrying about him or her. Maybe I'll just have to marry a guy who already has kids. Then I can be stepmom and maybe there wouldn't be as much pressure.
>>It's so appealing to believe that someone can just wave their hand or say a magical spell and all of our problems will instantly disappear. I would love to experience that kind of miracle for so many reasons. If he helps you, you have to give me his contact info!
-- The first few times I went he used this little pin-prick type needle and pricked my fingers and knuckles (everybody gets their own needle, and you had better not forget it when you show up for a visit). He also does the full accupuncture thing. And, he is cheap - $7 a visit (a couple of times when I went he didn't even charge me and refused to take any money). I'll let you know how it goes once I get started with treatments, and I'll certainly give you his contact info if you want it.
Take care, and talk to you soon.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 14:58:48
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 8:36:32
> Hi,
> -- You are probably right. I can't see how it would be effective against medication-induced side effects. I guess it might help calm a person down enough to endure the side effects. But, it's unlike to eliminate the side effects.
I probably told you already that I did some practicing of the tapping the night before last and the next day no anxiety. I don't know yet if it's related. I'm still VERY skeptical. Time will tell. My friend also promised to try more reiki on me. She's the one I'd be living with so if it helps I'd have my own therapist in-house.
Have you read the CES thread yet on the main board? I'm still very interested in learning more about that. You can get your own equipment - it's small and easy to use - kind of like a walkman. It has the potential to hit all transmitters (unlike most meds) but without many side effects. The guy who started the post just purchased one so I will be following his progress closely. I'm pretty sure I read that it is approved in Canada and that you don't need a prescription to order one as you do in the U.S.
> -- Maybe the fact that it is a new place that you both will be moving into will give you a chance to influence the decor a bit and make the place nice and bright. If not, then the subtle hints may sink in one day. Persistence may pay off eventually :-)Yes, that's the plan. I hope to wear her down a bit :)
> -- That is appalling! Had she signed a lease or a contract? Or was it a verbal agreement with a down payment? Either way, it is a pretty sleezy thing to do. It's incredible what some landlords will stoop to. Some people's lack of ethics is astounding at times. Well, I guess unless she is willing to take legal action, I suppose there would be nothing she could do. But, maybe it was meant to be if you guys now have the opportunity for a bigger place, with a better room for you (and a walk-in closet - I would love a walk-in closet!). That would be great! I'll will certainly keep my fingers crossed for you.My friend was trying to buy the house, not rent it. There had been a handshake between the brokers from both sides as well as a verbal agreement. My friend was told to submit the necessary papers with signature and 3% down. When my friend's broker went to hand over the papers and the check (less than 24 hours after the verbal agreement), the broker for the seller said something to the effect of "Sorry, we have since accepted another offer that was higher." Apparently it is legal because they hadn't taken the check yet (as I originally thought) or signed those papers themselves, but it is still very sleazy. I've never heard of such a thing before. My friend doesn't have any recourse.
The second place she has bid on is smaller, only two bedrooms instead of 3 and it is less desirable in other ways. It's also more expensive. The other deal she had was really too good to be true. Oh well, this could end up being really nice as well and this one does have some advantages the first one didn't have.
> -- It is overwhelming when you think of everything that has to be done. I guess if you just made a list of the stuff that needs to be done, it wouldn't all be spinning around in your head as much. Then you can check things off and see yourself making progress. It might minimize the distress a bit. Sometimes just getting our thinking organized so we can prioritize helps calm us down and helps us realize that we can do it - one step, one box at a time.
Yes, I'll definitely do that. I'm a fanatical list maker. Unfortunately I never get much done besides creating the lists. In this case, though, I would have lots of pressure to get the list completed.
> -- I have always wanted kids, but it scares me that maybe I just wouldn't be good at it. And then there is the whole worry thing. It would probably suck the life right out of me. I would always be worrying about him or her. Maybe I'll just have to marry a guy who already has kids. Then I can be stepmom and maybe there wouldn't be as much pressure.
I know exactly what you mean. I'd be terrified to have children - particularly in the U.S. where crime is a lot higher. My sister has a daughter and she worries so much. On the otherhand, she gets so much joy out of her that it is well worth it. Being a stepmom might work out for you though I think that if you bonded and grew to love the children, you'd worry plenty too.
> -- The first few times I went he used this little pin-prick type needle and pricked my fingers and knuckles (everybody gets their own needle, and you had better not forget it when you show up for a visit). He also does the full accupuncture thing. And, he is cheap - $7 a visit (a couple of times when I went he didn't even charge me and refused to take any money). I'll let you know how it goes once I get started with treatments, and I'll certainly give you his contact info if you want it.
That's fascinating about the needle pricks. I've never heard of that. How refreshing that he's not in it for the money. That's usually the sign of a true healer. I recently looked into one of the doctors around here who pioneered the brain mapping/BEAM/QEEG diagnostic system. He charged so much for everything - including a $10 fee for prescriptions. That was such a turnoff for me that on top of all of these other huge fees, he felt the need to charge for prescriptions. How petty and money grubbing can you get. I would never go to see this guy based on that alone.
Thanks for the offer of the contact info. If things do work out, please send me a babble mail with the info. It might be hard to see him if he's so far away and requires multiple visits though.
Talk to you later,
KaraP.S. I read on the main board that you're experiencing some nausea from the Provigil. I hope that goes away with time. I used to experience that with the start up of SSRIs but it almost always went away.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 18:34:53
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 14:58:48
> > Hi,
>
> I probably told you already that I did some practicing of the tapping the night before last and the next day no anxiety. I don't know yet if it's related. I'm still VERY skeptical. Time will tell. My friend also promised to try more reiki on me. She's the one I'd be living with so if it helps I'd have my own therapist in-house.-- No, you hadn't told me that. That sounds encouraging. And, it can't hurt to keep trying it - it doesn't cost anything but a bit of time, so there's nothing really to lose. I have to say that when I did my first two sessions with the practioner, and even when I practiced it on my own, I thought I noticed a reduction in my anxiety and anxious thoughts. So, maybe I'll try it again too. Like you, I am always somewhat skeptical about these things. But, we have to take whatever relief we can (even if it is sometimes just placebo). That's what keeps us going.
> Have you read the CES thread yet on the main board? I'm still very interested in learning more about that. You can get your own equipment - it's small and easy to use - kind of like a walkman. It has the potential to hit all transmitters (unlike most meds) but without many side effects. The guy who started the post just purchased one so I will be following his progress closely. I'm pretty sure I read that it is approved in Canada and that you don't need a prescription to order one as you do in the U.S.
-- I started reading the thread and then got distracted. I'll finish reading tonight. That's good news that a prescription is not needed in Canada for the equipment. I am going to look into the cost and decide whether I want to consider pursuing it. I have had a bad day today (actually, it started last night). No real anxiety, but very weepy and despondent. I don't get it. Will I ever be me again? Oh well, maybe I hadn't slept well or something. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
>
> Yes, that's the plan. I hope to wear her down a bit :)
>
> Good luck :-) As the saying goes, "The strongest of all warriors are these two - Time and Patience".
>
> My friend was trying to buy the house, not rent it. There had been a handshake between the brokers from both sides as well as a verbal agreement. My friend was told to submit the necessary papers with signature and 3% down. When my friend's broker went to hand over the papers and the check (less than 24 hours after the verbal agreement), the broker for the seller said something to the effect of "Sorry, we have since accepted another offer that was higher." Apparently it is legal because they hadn't taken the check yet (as I originally thought) or signed those papers themselves, but it is still very sleazy. I've never heard of such a thing before. My friend doesn't have any recourse.
>
-- Regardless, she and her broker should have at least been given the opportunity to counter the other offer. That was very unprofessional of the other broker. Some, I guess, just don't have much integrity.> The second place she has bid on is smaller, only two bedrooms instead of 3 and it is less desirable in other ways. It's also more expensive. The other deal she had was really too good to be true. Oh well, this could end up being really nice as well and this one does have some advantages the first one didn't have.
>
-- I hope this one works out. When my brother was house hunting, he went through a similar thing - having to take his second choice. It turned out quite well, and he is very happy with the house that he got (plus it was less expensive, so that was an added bonus). But, he was discouraged and disappointed at first.> Yes, I'll definitely do that. I'm a fanatical list maker. Unfortunately I never get much done besides creating the lists. In this case, though, I would have lots of pressure to get the list completed.
>
-- I am the same way! :-) The nice thing about lists is that you don't have to make a complete list right away. You could be sitting there, or having a walk, or be in middle of tapping :-) and think of something you will need to do and just jot it down. Lists are evergreen. So, we don't have to stress ourselves over making a comprehensive list all at once. When my older brother was getting his house ready to sell, I went down to give him a hand for a week (he lives in another city). I spent days stripping wallpaper, cleaning and organizing, etc., on top of looking after his kids while he had an opportunity to take a bit of a break. The last day I was there, I was up for 24 hours straight finishing some painting, etc. Then I made a list of all the things that still had to be done and left it on the coffee table for him. It was funny because he had spent the night at his girlfriends's place and when he got home he came across the list and started hustling around doing the stuff I had listed before he had to take me to the train. I think he was feeling a bit guilty!
>
> I know exactly what you mean. I'd be terrified to have children - particularly in the U.S. where crime is a lot higher. My sister has a daughter and she worries so much. On the otherhand, she gets so much joy out of her that it is well worth it. Being a stepmom might work out for you though I think that if you bonded and grew to love the children, you'd worry plenty too.
>
-- You are right. It doesn't matter if they are your own, biological kids. Once a bond has been established, the worry and instinct to protect just comes naturally. It's human nature to feel worry about others and feel protective I guess.
>
> That's fascinating about the needle pricks. I've never heard of that. How refreshing that he's not in it for the money. That's usually the sign of a true healer. I recently looked into one of the doctors around here who pioneered the brain mapping/BEAM/QEEG diagnostic system. He charged so much for everything - including a $10 fee for prescriptions. That was such a turnoff for me that on top of all of these other huge fees, he felt the need to charge for prescriptions. How petty and money grubbing can you get. I would never go to see this guy based on that alone.
>
-- This guy leads a very simple life apparently. He spends a lot of time meditating and he eats minimally but well. He seems to have found peace and harmony which must be such a wonderful thing. He was struck with polio when he was younger (he has a very noticeable limp) and even spent time as a POW, but he has perservered. He's quite an inspiration and very self-less. His brother and sister both work with him, and they as self-less as he is. I know what you mean about the money-grubbers though. I went to a hypnotist years ago who was very expensive and, well, turned out to be a quack. And, to top it off, he was really creepy. He would sometimes go off on a rant about his life (things that I really didn't need to hear or want to hear). After a few visits, I just got so creeped out by him that I didn't go back. It gives me the willies every time I think about it and him.
> Thanks for the offer of the contact info. If things do work out, please send me a babble mail with the info. It might be hard to see him if he's so far away and requires multiple visits though.
>
-- I will do that. And, if you decide you want to pursue it, you would certainly have a place to stay here. All are welcome at my home.> Talk to you later,
Tamara
>
> P.S. I read on the main board that you're experiencing some nausea from the Provigil. I hope that goes away with time. I used to experience that with the start up of SSRIs but it almost always went away.
>
-- I hope it goes away too. I have been experiencing so much nausea over the past year that it is becoming very frustrating and beyond a nuisance. I'll try to go up to 100 mg tomorrow and limit my coffee to one or two cups a day (probably decaf). I am sending my pdoc an e-mail. I had hoped that I would not have to go back to see him this soon. I just don't have it in me to do it. I may give up on him and try the L-Tyrosine again if the nausea continues to be bad. But, I won't give up on it just yet. >
Posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 22:42:38
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 18:34:53
Hi,
> -- No, you hadn't told me that. That sounds encouraging. And, it can't hurt to keep trying it - it doesn't cost anything but a bit of time, so there's nothing really to lose. I have to say that when I did my first two sessions with the practioner, and even when I practiced it on my own, I thought I noticed a reduction in my anxiety and anxious thoughts. So, maybe I'll try it again too. Like you, I am always somewhat skeptical about these things. But, we have to take whatever relief we can (even if it is sometimes just placebo). That's what keeps us going.Absolutely, we cling to whatever hope we can find.
> -- I started reading the thread and then got distracted. I'll finish reading tonight. That's good news that a prescription is not needed in Canada for the equipment. I am going to look into the cost and decide whether I want to consider pursuing it. I have had a bad day today (actually, it started last night). No real anxiety, but very weepy and despondent. I don't get it. Will I ever be me again? Oh well, maybe I hadn't slept well or something. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
I'll definitely wait to see what happens with the 2 guys who are discussing CES in the thread before I commit to ordering it. It's just nice to have another potential option - something that might actually work on motivation.
I'm so sorry to hear about your bad day. I admit to being just as baffled as you are at the fickleness of these mood changes. I can't quite figure out why some of my days are encouraging and others are so anxious and despondent. I guess we're lucky that every day isn't as bad as our worst days. It must be particularly hard to take if you've been a happy and upbeat person in the past. (I've been dysthymic my entire adult life punctuated with periods of major depression. Unfortunately I can't even imagine not living with depression to some extent.)
> > Good luck :-) As the saying goes, "The strongest of all warriors are these two - Time and Patience".
That's a good saying to remember. You know a lot of great sayings!
> -- Regardless, she and her broker should have at least been given the opportunity to counter the other offer. That was very unprofessional of the other broker. Some, I guess, just don't have much integrity.
You're right. It really was unprofessional. My sister is in real estate and she thought it was appalling. She thought that my friend had cause to sue the seller and broker.
> -- I hope this one works out. When my brother was house hunting, he went through a similar thing - having to take his second choice. It turned out quite well, and he is very happy with the house that he got (plus it was less expensive, so that was an added bonus). But, he was discouraged and disappointed at first.I just heard that my friend's latest offer has been accepted so we're back on the roler coaster. I think this one could turn out to be a good choice as well.
> -- I am the same way! :-) The nice thing about lists is that you don't have to make a complete list right away. You could be sitting there, or having a walk, or be in middle of tapping :-) and think of something you will need to do and just jot it down. Lists are evergreen. So, we don't have to stress ourselves over making a comprehensive list all at once. When my older brother was getting his house ready to sell, I went down to give him a hand for a week (he lives in another city). I spent days stripping wallpaper, cleaning and organizing, etc., on top of looking after his kids while he had an opportunity to take a bit of a break. The last day I was there, I was up for 24 hours straight finishing some painting, etc. Then I made a list of all the things that still had to be done and left it on the coffee table for him. It was funny because he had spent the night at his girlfriends's place and when he got home he came across the list and started hustling around doing the stuff I had listed before he had to take me to the train. I think he was feeling a bit guilty!
Yeah, I'm always jotting items down to add to the "master" list later on. I just wish I got more items accomplished. That was incredibly nice of you to go to another city and then do so much to help your brother move.
> -- You are right. It doesn't matter if they are your own, biological kids. Once a bond has been established, the worry and instinct to protect just comes naturally. It's human nature to feel worry about others and feel protective I guess.
I worry a lot about my cats too. Sometimes I think even that's too much responsibility for me.
> -- This guy leads a very simple life apparently. He spends a lot of time meditating and he eats minimally but well. He seems to have found peace and harmony which must be such a wonderful thing. He was struck with polio when he was younger (he has a very noticeable limp) and even spent time as a POW, but he has perservered. He's quite an inspiration and very self-less. His brother and sister both work with him, and they as self-less as he is. I know what you mean about the money-grubbers though. I went to a hypnotist years ago who was very expensive and, well, turned out to be a quack. And, to top it off, he was really creepy. He would sometimes go off on a rant about his life (things that I really didn't need to hear or want to hear). After a few visits, I just got so creeped out by him that I didn't go back. It gives me the willies every time I think about it and him.
It's so rare to hear about people who are so selfless and unconcerned with money. Truly a very evolved soul. (That applies to his siblings as well.) The hypnotist does sound creepy. Unfortunately some people out there exploit those of us with emotional problems.
> -- I will do that. And, if you decide you want to pursue it, you would certainly have a place to stay here. All are welcome at my home.
Thank you so much. That's so sweet of you.
> -- I hope it goes away too. I have been experiencing so much nausea over the past year that it is becoming very frustrating and beyond a nuisance. I'll try to go up to 100 mg tomorrow and limit my coffee to one or two cups a day (probably decaf). I am sending my pdoc an e-mail. I had hoped that I would not have to go back to see him this soon. I just don't have it in me to do it. I may give up on him and try the L-Tyrosine again if the nausea continues to be bad. But, I won't give up on it just yet. >
Nausea is the worst. I hated having to try to force food down. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that yours goes away soon.
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 23:34:11
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 22:42:38
> Hi,
>
>
> I'll definitely wait to see what happens with the 2 guys who are discussing CES in the thread before I commit to ordering it. It's just nice to have another potential option - something that might actually work on motivation.
>
-- That's right. I know that action = motivation = more action, but when your mind is constantly telling you NO ACTION, it is hard to get over that hump. So, anything that gives us that kick-start and a boost would be most welcome. I am definitely going to check it out.> I'm so sorry to hear about your bad day. I admit to being just as baffled as you are at the fickleness of these mood changes. I can't quite figure out why some of my days are encouraging and others are so anxious and despondent. I guess we're lucky that every day isn't as bad as our worst days. It must be particularly hard to take if you've been a happy and upbeat person in the past. (I've been dysthymic my entire adult life punctuated with periods of major depression. Unfortunately I can't even imagine not living with depression to some extent.)
>
-- I don't know what happened. I have felt lousy since late yesterday (I was hoping that yesterday was just a blip), and I have been crying on and off all day. It just doesn't make sense. I am beginning to think it is hormonal. I sent a long e-mail to my pdoc today to tell him how I have been doing. I have to go back work in 2 weeks, and if I have any more days like today and yesterday, I just don't know if I can do it. I want so much to get back into the swing of things and not let anyone down.
> >
> You're right. It really was unprofessional. My sister is in real estate and she thought it was appalling. She thought that my friend had cause to sue the seller and broker.
>
-- I am sure there are legal precedence for situations like that where there was a perhaps a contract in principle (implied contract perhaps). I guess the question would be whether a person would want to invest money, time and energy into pursuing legal action. I would imagine most don't because, like your friend, they manage to find something else. Oh well. At least not all brokers lack integrity.
> > >
> I just heard that my friend's latest offer has been accepted so we're back on the roler coaster. I think this one could turn out to be a good choice as well.
>
-- That is great news! New digs on the horizon. My fingers are crossed that all goes smoothly, with as little stress as possible.
> >
> I worry a lot about my cats too. Sometimes I think even that's too much responsibility for me.
>
-- I am the same way with my dog. I can't imagine how much I would worry about a child. There have been days that just knowing I have to take care of my dog have kept me going (in spite of the love of family and friends). I worry about who would take care of her if I wasn't here.> Nausea is the worst. I hated having to try to force food down. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that yours goes away soon.
>
-- Thanks. I agree, it is the worst. I can't imagine how some women put up with months of morning sickness. Must be awful. I can usually handle a bit of nausea, but I have had so much extreme nausea for the past year that my resistence is wearing down. I think I may pick up some ginger just to keep on hand. I have found it excellent for nausea. Even my mom (who always poo poos alternative treatments has tried it and had really good results from it).All the best,
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 3:30:47
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 23:34:11
Hi,
> >
> -- That's right. I know that action = motivation = more action, but when your mind is constantly telling you NO ACTION, it is hard to get over that hump. So, anything that gives us that kick-start and a boost would be most welcome. I am definitely going to check it out.The only thing that has me a bit worried is one of Larry's posts about its classification. OTOH, this doctor Braverman uses it with his patients and there have been numerous studies done on it. I haven't read of any problematic side effects in any of the studies.
> -- I don't know what happened. I have felt lousy since late yesterday (I was hoping that yesterday was just a blip), and I have been crying on and off all day. It just doesn't make sense. I am beginning to think it is hormonal. I sent a long e-mail to my pdoc today to tell him how I have been doing. I have to go back work in 2 weeks, and if I have any more days like today and yesterday, I just don't know if I can do it. I want so much to get back into the swing of things and not let anyone down.Hormones can wreak a lot of havoc on our systems. That could very well be the cause if there's no other external reason for your mood change. It's worth looking into. Try not to worry so much about letting others down. You have medical problems. You can't help it. You need to do whatever is going to get you well - not whatever is going to make other people happy. I struggle with that same issue. It's not an easy situation.
> -- I am sure there are legal precedence for situations like that where there was a perhaps a contract in principle (implied contract perhaps). I guess the question would be whether a person would want to invest money, time and energy into pursuing legal action. I would imagine most don't because, like your friend, they manage to find something else. Oh well. At least not all brokers lack integrity.
My friend is a very positive thinker. She says it just wasn't meant to be and that there may be some good reason why she didn't get the house. At least my friend's broker is a really nice guy - definitely a lot of integrity. I try hard to note the good people in the world otherwise I get too depressed over all of the sleazoids out there.
> -- That is great news! New digs on the horizon. My fingers are crossed that all goes smoothly, with as little stress as possible.
So far so good but we've been down this path twice before and it didn't work out either of those times. I have a feeling that the third time is the charm though.
> -- I am the same way with my dog. I can't imagine how much I would worry about a child. There have been days that just knowing I have to take care of my dog have kept me going (in spite of the love of family and friends). I worry about who would take care of her if I wasn't here.Yeah, same here. I worry that if I weren't able to take care of them, then they'd be up for adoption - stuck in cages for days on end. They could end up with people who don't take good care of them or even abuse them. I can't stand to think about it. I just have to manage to take care of them.
> -- Thanks. I agree, it is the worst. I can't imagine how some women put up with months of morning sickness. Must be awful. I can usually handle a bit of nausea, but I have had so much extreme nausea for the past year that my resistence is wearing down. I think I may pick up some ginger just to keep on hand. I have found it excellent for nausea. Even my mom (who always poo poos alternative treatments has tried it and had really good results from it).
When I first was diagnosed with CFS I had flu like systoms that came and went. It was like a stomach flu and it would run its course like a regular virus. I'd feel better for a while and then it would start again. The nausea was worse than the fatigue or other symptoms. I thought I was going to have to live my whole life with that nausea. Fortunately as the years passed, the attacks came less frequently. Then it got to the point where I only get them if I'm really run down. This last episode of extreme anxiety where I wasn't sleeping or eating, I thought for sure I'd get a CFS attack but it didn't happen. I guess if there's a silver lining here...
Are you feeling any better today? Less nausea, less sad? I read your post below about stopping smoking. Are you sure you want to do that now? It's going to add a lot more stress at an already stressful time. Is there any way you could get the nicotine patches to help you with this?
K
Posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 11:04:21
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 3:30:47
> Hi,
>
> Hormones can wreak a lot of havoc on our systems. That could very well be the cause if there's no other external reason for your mood change. It's worth looking into. Try not to worry so much about letting others down. You have medical problems. You can't help it. You need to do whatever is going to get you well - not whatever is going to make other people happy. I struggle with that same issue. It's not an easy situation.
>
-- I know what you mean. My hormones have been crazy lately. It is the second cycle I have had in a month (yet again). When that happens, my mood and energy really take a nosedive. I slept and slept and slept yesterday, which is so unlike me. When I feel like this, I know I am not ready to go back to work. I can't even take care of myself when I am like this. I had so hoped that I would have some energy to start doing some things like exercising, etc. so I would be ready for work. But, I know I am of no use to anyone right now. I sent an e-mail to my pdoc. I told him that I don't even have the emotional or physical fortitude right now to come in for an appointment and that I would even be willing to re-try the Anafranil to see if I can get up to 75 mg. I can't go on like this much longer. And, it is time I was completely honest with people about the depth of the depression. I have tried to be upbeat and have people believe that I am just mildly depressed, but I am not doing myself any favors by doing that. I hope the pdoc calls me back today. He may, however, be fed up with me. And, what's so hard is that I don't even have a family doctor that I can go to. Whine! Whine! Whine! Sorry Kara, you didn't need to hear all that. I apologize.
>
> My friend is a very positive thinker. She says it just wasn't meant to be and that there may be some good reason why she didn't get the house. At least my friend's broker is a really nice guy - definitely a lot of integrity. I try hard to note the good people in the world otherwise I get too depressed over all of the sleazoids out there.
>
-- It's good that your friend has maintained a positive outlook throughout all of this. And, she's lucky that her broker has a lot of integrity. I agree with you - we have to look for the good in people. Life would just be too hard to take if we couldn't find good in at least some people. But, there are good, honest and caring people out there. So, that makes it all worthwhile.
>
> So far so good but we've been down this path twice before and it didn't work out either of those times. I have a feeling that the third time is the charm though.
>
-- That's the attitude :-) What is that expression - the universe unfolds as it should (?) My fingers, toes, legs and even my eyes are crossed for you guys!
> >
> Yeah, same here. I worry that if I weren't able to take care of them, then they'd be up for adoption - stuck in cages for days on end. They could end up with people who don't take good care of them or even abuse them. I can't stand to think about it. I just have to manage to take care of them.
>
-- That's the way I feel too. I got my dog from the Humane Society, and it was heartbreaking to see all those dogs in cages needing homes. Luckily, my dog had only been there for a few days when I got her, so she didn't seem any the worse for wear after her experience. I wish I had a farm and then I could take them all home with me and they could be safe and happy. I wish more people would get their pets from the Humane Society instead of going to breeders and pet stores. It's sad.
>
> When I first was diagnosed with CFS I had flu like systoms that came and went. It was like a stomach flu and it would run its course like a regular virus. I'd feel better for a while and then it would start again. The nausea was worse than the fatigue or other symptoms. I thought I was going to have to live my whole life with that nausea. Fortunately as the years passed, the attacks came less frequently. Then it got to the point where I only get them if I'm really run down. This last episode of extreme anxiety where I wasn't sleeping or eating, I thought for sure I'd get a CFS attack but it didn't happen. I guess if there's a silver lining here...
>
-- I just can't imagine how hard it must be to live with CFS. My heart goes out to you. A friend of mine has CFS, and it has been really hard on him. He was always so active - a real workaholic. He has adjusted to it, but it took a number of years before he was able to accept and adjust to his limitations. I'm glad for you that you didn't experience a flare up of your CFS symptoms during the most recent period of extreme anxiety. Thank goodness. The anxiety alone is enough!
>
> Are you feeling any better today? Less nausea, less sad? I read your post below about stopping smoking. Are you sure you want to do that now? It's going to add a lot more stress at an already stressful time. Is there any way you could get the nicotine patches to help you with this?
>
-- I just feel drained. And, as for quitting smoking, maybe what I have to do to begin with is try to cut down. That hasn't always been the most effective approach for me, but I will try. I didn't take any Provigil yesterday or today, and I don't have a piercing headache or any nausea. I will probably try the Provigil again tomorrow to see how I react. Maybe it's just not for me. Bummer. The headache I could handle, but the nausea was gutwrenching (a real burning sensation and like I was constantly going to throw up - yuk). Oh well. There has to be something out there that will help me. Seems like both of us are having a heck of a time finding not only a med that works, but also one that we can tolerate. How's the Zoloft titration going? Have you been able to tolerate increasing the dose even modestly? Any more thought to trying a different AD? And, have you been able to keep the anxiety under control a bit more lately? It is amazing how much anxiety can exacerbate depression, isn't it? Well, I will keep thinking positive thoughts that you can begin to tolerate a closer to therapeutic dose of the Zoloft or that you find a more suitable and tolerable AD.Take good care of yourself Kara. I will talk to you soon.
Tamara
>
Posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 16:09:22
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 11:04:21
Hi,
> >
> -- I know what you mean. My hormones have been crazy lately. It is the second cycle I have had in a month (yet again). When that happens, my mood and energy really take a nosedive. I slept and slept and slept yesterday, which is so unlike me. When I feel like this, I know I am not ready to go back to work. I can't even take care of myself when I am like this. I had so hoped that I would have some energy to start doing some things like exercising, etc. so I would be ready for work. But, I know I am of no use to anyone right now. I sent an e-mail to my pdoc. I told him that I don't even have the emotional or physical fortitude right now to come in for an appointment and that I would even be willing to re-try the Anafranil to see if I can get up to 75 mg. I can't go on like this much longer. And, it is time I was completely honest with people about the depth of the depression. I have tried to be upbeat and have people believe that I am just mildly depressed, but I am not doing myself any favors by doing that. I hope the pdoc calls me back today. He may, however, be fed up with me. And, what's so hard is that I don't even have a family doctor that I can go to. Whine! Whine! Whine! Sorry Kara, you didn't need to hear all that. I apologize.
> >Don't apologize for ranting. I've done my share here. We have good reason to rant! We're having a really hard time and we need to vent. It's better to do so with people who understand and are going through the same thing. Are you convinced that hormones are invovled? Is there any bipoloarity in your family? There is none in mine though my pdoc thinks I may be "soft bipolar". I don't have mood swings but I get periods of more agitation. I don't know if it's hormonal or a soft bipolar condition. I think I'm going to try taking some of the lithium orotate later on and see if that helps me at all.
But back to you and your work situation, I think you're wise to acknowledge that you're not ready. I'm so sorry to hear that though. I know how hard it must be for you to admit that to yourself and to your supervisor. You would only make things worse if you tried to push yourself. You really had no other choice. Depression and anxiety are so hard to deal with. With any other condition, you have some tools to work with. With depression/anxiety, we don't even have the energy for a fight. It's the hardest thing to deal with. I wish your doctor would let you try nortriptyline. I don't understand why he's so against it. It's not a dangerous, on the edge kind of a choice.
> -- It's good that your friend has maintained a positive outlook throughout all of this. And, she's lucky that her broker has a lot of integrity. I agree with you - we have to look for the good in people. Life would just be too hard to take if we couldn't find good in at least some people. But, there are good, honest and caring people out there. So, that makes it all worthwhile.
My pdoc is another really good person. In fact I think he's a saint. He talks to me on the phone, advises and prescribes for me without charging me because he knows I don't have any money. He is willing to listen to my input and doesn't talk down to me when I suggest things. I don't know where I'd be right now if he hadn't been there to prescribe for me immediately when I was so incapacitated with anxiety (and this after seeing him once in the last year). I keep trying to think of something I could do for him or a gift I could give him for being so kind to me. With all of the money grubbers out there, it sure is nice to know that there are also some saints.
> -- That's the attitude :-) What is that expression - the universe unfolds as it should (?) My fingers, toes, legs and even my eyes are crossed for you guys!
Thanks so much. I think it's only a matter of time even if the current offer doesn't work out.
> -- That's the way I feel too. I got my dog from the Humane Society, and it was heartbreaking to see all those dogs in cages needing homes. Luckily, my dog had only been there for a few days when I got her, so she didn't seem any the worse for wear after her experience. I wish I had a farm and then I could take them all home with me and they could be safe and happy. I wish more people would get their pets from the Humane Society instead of going to breeders and pet stores. It's sad.I know. I wish I had a house big enough to adopt all of the animals who needed a good home (not to mention the funds to take care of them). I wish they'd shut down those breeders and the pet store sales and force people to adopt animals who are already here and need homes. But I can't think about this for too long. It's too upsetting and it doesn't do me or the animals up for adoption any good.
> -- I just can't imagine how hard it must be to live with CFS. My heart goes out to you. A friend of mine has CFS, and it has been really hard on him. He was always so active - a real workaholic. He has adjusted to it, but it took a number of years before he was able to accept and adjust to his limitations. I'm glad for you that you didn't experience a flare up of your CFS symptoms during the most recent period of extreme anxiety. Thank goodness. The anxiety alone is enough!
The CFS isn't a big deal in my life now. It doesn't occur often enough and I can usually prevent it by not letting myself get run down. It was h*llish for a while there though. I wish I had known that it would get better when I was initially going through it. That would have helped immensely - but fortunately it's not a huge problem now.
> -- I just feel drained. And, as for quitting smoking, maybe what I have to do to begin with is try to cut down. That hasn't always been the most effective approach for me, but I will try. I didn't take any Provigil yesterday or today, and I don't have a piercing headache or any nausea. I will probably try the Provigil again tomorrow to see how I react. Maybe it's just not for me. Bummer. The headache I could handle, but the nausea was gutwrenching (a real burning sensation and like I was constantly going to throw up - yuk). Oh well. There has to be something out there that will help me. Seems like both of us are having a heck of a time finding not only a med that works, but also one that we can tolerate. How's the Zoloft titration going? Have you been able to tolerate increasing the dose even modestly? Any more thought to trying a different AD? And, have you been able to keep the anxiety under control a bit more lately? It is amazing how much anxiety can exacerbate depression, isn't it? Well, I will keep thinking positive thoughts that you can begin to tolerate a closer to therapeutic dose of the Zoloft or that you find a more suitable and tolerable AD.
If you do cut back now, do it very gradually. You don't need any more anxiety than you have right now. As for the Provigil, the nausea and headache sound horrible. I don't know whether it will pass if you manage to take it longer. I guess only you can decide if you can stand to continue on it. I often read about people (on the main board) who have been close to discontinuing something but managed to persevere and work through the initial side effects and were glad that they did. OTOH, there are no guarantees that it will work or the side effects will diminish. Just wish we had a way of knowing!
I stopped taking the Zoloft. I may try it again soon though. It was making me too anxious at a time when my anxiety wasn't yet under control. I also had only a mild antidepressant effect from it previously so I'm not expecting much from it anyway. In the past it has calmed the anxiety and allowed me to work (though I still couldn't keep my apartment clean and in order.) I was hoping for that now. Even with the Effexor, it helped somewhat with mood but left me apathetic and unable to take care of my apartment or push myself to find a job. I was just hoping to get on one of these drugs and control the anxiety and provide some functioning while I tried to figure out what else to do. It was a big surprise that I haven't been able to tolerate either of these meds or the maprotiline that I've used so much in the past. It felt like I was losing ground rather than moving forward and that was really scary. I'm sure you understand because you're having a hard time tolerating meds.
Right now I'm on only 25 mg. of doxepin and it is really getting the anxiety under control. The agoraphobia is almost gone as well as the panic. This med worked wonders for me years ago in a similar situation and it is doing so again now. My doctor said that I could increase the doxepin instead of trying to get onto the Zoloft. I am considering it but at the higher dosages come the side effects and the serious impairment of cognition. At the moment I think I'm going to try to stay on this small dosage and add more exercise, the tapping, lightbox (been using it every morning for about a week now), vitamin D, increase fish oil, utilize CBT, meditation with visualization, aroma therapy and even more of the reiki. I'm also going to try to get into a support group, get formal CBT training and get an idividual therapist. I may also try that CES device if I can get a prescription for it. If all of this doesn't work or I'm not able to do it all then I may try an MAOI or maybe the selegiline patch which will hopefully be on the market soon. I don't have the energy yet to do all of these things at once but I'm finding that it's getting easier to start doing some things and so I'm hoping that the rest will follow. I want to find something(s) that will give a complete response - not just allow some mood lift. I want energy, motivation and drive!!!
Back to you...you had some success in the past with amino acids, didn't you? Have you tried tryptophan? Dr. Slagle has a program where you use the tryptophan at night and the tyrosine during the day. Or perhaps a new pdoc might be willing to prescribe nortriptyline for you. A lot of people find it very easy to tolerate. It's less likely (as you know) to give you the blood pressure problems like clomipramine did. Would you ever consider an MAOI? (I know your current pdoc would never go for it.) Who knows, maybe this healer/doctor you're going to see this month may be able to help you.
I know we'll figure this out eventually. It may take a little more time than we hoped though.
Hang in there. You'll get through this!
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 18:33:43
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 16:09:22
> Hi,
> > >
> > >
> Don't apologize for ranting. I've done my share here. We have good reason to rant! We're having a really hard time and we need to vent. It's better to do so with people who understand and are going through the same thing. Are you convinced that hormones are invovled? Is there any bipoloarity in your family? There is none in mine though my pdoc thinks I may be "soft bipolar". I don't have mood swings but I get periods of more agitation. I don't know if it's hormonal or a soft bipolar condition. I think I'm going to try taking some of the lithium orotate later on and see if that helps me at all.
>
-- Thanks Kara. You're right! We do have reason to rant! I remember last fall you talking about your pdoc thinking you may be "soft bipolar". Lithium orotate may be just what you need. It might even help quell your anxiety as well. There is no diagnosed bipolar in my family. As I mentioned before, my dad had many symptoms, especially the extreme highs and then a crash. I guess, however, we never know what our grandparents and great aunts and uncles may have suffered from. There may be a hereditary link somewhere that we just aren't aware of. It's funny because my family doctor sent me to the pdoc because she thought I might be bipolar. I was surprised because of my age. I raised it with the pdoc during the first visit and he said no that I was just very hyper. I have gone through periods where I have been quite impulsive and had probably what some might consider hypomania, but the lows have never really been bad. Some of these periods were cycle related, but not all.
> But back to you and your work situation, I think you're wise to acknowledge that you're not ready. I'm so sorry to hear that though. I know how hard it must be for you to admit that to yourself and to your supervisor. You would only make things worse if you tried to push yourself. You really had no other choice. Depression and anxiety are so hard to deal with. With any other condition, you have some tools to work with. With depression/anxiety, we don't even have the energy for a fight. It's the hardest thing to deal with. I wish your doctor would let you try nortriptyline. I don't understand why he's so against it. It's not a dangerous, on the edge kind of a choice.
>
-- I feel like such a fraud. I have tried so hard to keep a smile on my face and in my voice when speaking with my friends from work and my boss. I haven't been entirely honest with my boss about the severity of the depression. I wasn't even completely honest with the pdoc or my doctor when I think about it. I didn't do myself any favours I guess. I was afraid of what they would do to me or think of me if I shared with them the dark thoughts I was having. Oh well. Live and learn. The pdoc has not called me back yet. I hope he does. I hope he isn't that cold-hearted that he wouldn't call back. He cancelled my last appointment and I had a conflict (with the surgeon) with the only two alternative times he had available. And, I forgot to make another appointment. He must be fed up with me.
> >
> My pdoc is another really good person. In fact I think he's a saint. He talks to me on the phone, advises and prescribes for me without charging me because he knows I don't have any money. He is willing to listen to my input and doesn't talk down to me when I suggest things. I don't know where I'd be right now if he hadn't been there to prescribe for me immediately when I was so incapacitated with anxiety (and this after seeing him once in the last year). I keep trying to think of something I could do for him or a gift I could give him for being so kind to me. With all of the money grubbers out there, it sure is nice to know that there are also some saints.
>
-- You are very fortunate to have found such a good, understanding, open-minded and compassionate pdoc. That's great. It makes a difference I would imagine when you feel comfortable and safe and know that the person has your best interests at heart and allows you to be an active participant in your treatment. Not many like that around. I am sure he knows how much you appreciate him. When you're up to it, perhaps you can find a really meaningful card and send it to him. I have often been touched more by a thoughtful card and the time the person spent in chosing just the right card than a gift.
>
>> The CFS isn't a big deal in my life now. It doesn't occur often enough and I can usually prevent it by not letting myself get run down. It was h*llish for a while there though. I wish I had known that it would get better when I was initially going through it. That would have helped immensely - but fortunately it's not a huge problem now.
>
-- That's good that it is under control or in partial remission. Depression and anxiety are hard enough to deal with, things don't need to get even more complicated and distressing by adding CFS into the mix.
>
> If you do cut back now, do it very gradually. You don't need any more anxiety than you have right now. As for the Provigil, the nausea and headache sound horrible. I don't know whether it will pass if you manage to take it longer. I guess only you can decide if you can stand to continue on it. I often read about people (on the main board) who have been close to discontinuing something but managed to persevere and work through the initial side effects and were glad that they did. OTOH, there are no guarantees that it will work or the side effects will diminish. Just wish we had a way of knowing!
>
-- I didn't take any Provigil today and no nausea or headache. I may try again tomorrow to see what my reaction is. The headache was intermittent, but it was like one side of my head was being pierced by a knife. It was kind of scary at first. I agree, it would be nice if we had some inkling of how we would respond to the meds we have been prescribed. It starts to take its toll after a while when we experience one failure after another.> I stopped taking the Zoloft. I may try it again soon though. It was making me too anxious at a time when my anxiety wasn't yet under control. I also had only a mild antidepressant effect from it previously so I'm not expecting much from it anyway. In the past it has calmed the anxiety and allowed me to work (though I still couldn't keep my apartment clean and in order.) I was hoping for that now. Even with the Effexor, it helped somewhat with mood but left me apathetic and unable to take care of my apartment or push myself to find a job. I was just hoping to get on one of these drugs and control the anxiety and provide some functioning while I tried to figure out what else to do. It was a big surprise that I haven't been able to tolerate either of these meds or the maprotiline that I've used so much in the past. It felt like I was losing ground rather than moving forward and that was really scary. I'm sure you understand because you're having a hard time tolerating meds.
>
-- I'm sorry about the Zoloft. I don't think you are alone though (not that it's any consolation :-(). Some people have a hard time with it because of increased anxiety and agitation. I think it tends to be more activating than other SSRIs. I understand how discouraging it can be to be searching for the elusive med that will provide some measure of relief. Sometimes, even moderate relief would be welcome. I wonder if the Lithium you are thinking about adding eventually might help even out the effect of a more activating AD? I guess all we can hang on to is hope. As long as there are ADs we haven't tried, then there is still hope. But, I know that every failed trial brings with it a bit of discouragement.> Right now I'm on only 25 mg. of doxepin and it is really getting the anxiety under control. The agoraphobia is almost gone as well as the panic. This med worked wonders for me years ago in a similar situation and it is doing so again now. My doctor said that I could increase the doxepin instead of trying to get onto the Zoloft. I am considering it but at the higher dosages come the side effects and the serious impairment of cognition. At the moment I think I'm going to try to stay on this small dosage and add more exercise, the tapping, lightbox (been using it every morning for about a week now), vitamin D, increase fish oil, utilize CBT, meditation with visualization, aroma therapy and even more of the reiki. I'm also going to try to get into a support group, get formal CBT training and get an idividual therapist. I may also try that CES device if I can get a prescription for it. If all of this doesn't work or I'm not able to do it all then I may try an MAOI or maybe the selegiline patch which will hopefully be on the market soon. I don't have the energy yet to do all of these things at once but I'm finding that it's getting easier to start doing some things and so I'm hoping that the rest will follow. I want to find something(s) that will give a complete response - not just allow some mood lift. I want energy, motivation and drive!!!
>
-- You have to do what you think is best for you. It's good that you have enough emotional energy to be thinking about the things you want to do to help you recover. One thing at a time is a good credo. A support group would be wonderful and a great place to be among and learn from people who have been, or are going through, similar experiences. It is something I would like to do as well. Energy, drive and motivation - I hear you! That's the goal!> Back to you...you had some success in the past with amino acids, didn't you? Have you tried tryptophan? Dr. Slagle has a program where you use the tryptophan at night and the tyrosine during the day. Or perhaps a new pdoc might be willing to prescribe nortriptyline for you. A lot of people find it very easy to tolerate. It's less likely (as you know) to give you the blood pressure problems like clomipramine did. Would you ever consider an MAOI? (I know your current pdoc would never go for it.) Who knows, maybe this healer/doctor you're going to see this month may be able to help you.
>
-- I may well try the aminos again, maybe even this week. And, I may cave in and try the Clomipramine again and see if I can keep my blood pressure up with more salt tablets so that I can go up to 75mg. I don't know if I would ever be able to stick to the MAOI diet - I am a very fussy eater, and absolutely love cheese. I just hope the pdoc calls me back. In my e-mail to him I explained that I had suggested nort because some people had suggested that the side effects were less severe and it was better tolerated than clomipramine. Maybe that might help change his mind. Ed (ed_uk) had provided me with an article that validated that, so I could always e-mail that him for information. But, then again, I don't want to tick him off any more than I may already have :-)
> I know we'll figure this out eventually. It may take a little more time than we hoped though.
>
-- That's right. We will keep fighting the good fight!> Hang in there. You'll get through this!
>
-- Right back atcha Kara. And, thanks for your kindness and understanding.Tamara
Posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 21:48:45
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 18:33:43
Hi,
> -- Thanks Kara. You're right! We do have reason to rant! I remember last fall you talking about your pdoc thinking you may be "soft bipolar". Lithium orotate may be just what you need. It might even help quell your anxiety as well. There is no diagnosed bipolar in my family. As I mentioned before, my dad had many symptoms, especially the extreme highs and then a crash. I guess, however, we never know what our grandparents and great aunts and uncles may have suffered from. There may be a hereditary link somewhere that we just aren't aware of. It's funny because my family doctor sent me to the pdoc because she thought I might be bipolar. I was surprised because of my age. I raised it with the pdoc during the first visit and he said no that I was just very hyper. I have gone through periods where I have been quite impulsive and had probably what some might consider hypomania, but the lows have never really been bad. Some of these periods were cycle related, but not all.
Sorry I didn't remember you saying that about your fathers mood swings. My memory isn't the greatest these days (and doxepin doesn't help that either). So it sounds like you might be open to the possibility that you may have some bipolarity. We're probably on the same page on this one - we think there may be some of that or else it's hormonal. I think that if your doctor was going by the old definitions of bipolar illness then neither of us would qualify but the newer definitions include so much more than the extremes of depression and hypomania. The only symptom I have is that I get periods of agitation that aren't related to what's going on my life. That was enough for my pdoc to think I might benefit from adding a mood stabilizer.
> -- I feel like such a fraud. I have tried so hard to keep a smile on my face and in my voice when speaking with my friends from work and my boss. I haven't been entirely honest with my boss about the severity of the depression. I wasn't even completely honest with the pdoc or my doctor when I think about it. I didn't do myself any favours I guess. I was afraid of what they would do to me or think of me if I shared with them the dark thoughts I was having. Oh well. Live and learn. The pdoc has not called me back yet. I hope he does. I hope he isn't that cold-hearted that he wouldn't call back. He cancelled my last appointment and I had a conflict (with the surgeon) with the only two alternative times he had available. And, I forgot to make another appointment. He must be fed up with me.You're not a fraud! You did what you thought was best at the time. You probably hadn't even fully admitted to yourself the extent of your problem. That's a fairly normal response. You probably figured you wouldn't make too many waves and get the problem fixed in the meantime. Unfortunately it was harder to fix that you had anticipated. Besides, most people don't tell their supervisors the full scoop because they're concerned about their jobs. You can explain to your pdoc the next time you see him what the story is and how much more severe you think the problem is than you dared to admit.
Cancelling an appointment and failing to make another one quickly are not grounds for being fed up with you and not calling you back!! If he has any compassion at all, he should be able to see that you're struggling right now and that you need his help. I can't stand most of these doctors and their egos. Also, if you have to fight tooth and nail just to get basic treatment, then maybe you're better off elsewhere anyway. If he doesn't call you back, then let him handle the people who are fine just taking the latest SSRI and who won't ask for anything more than that from him.
> -- You are very fortunate to have found such a good, understanding, open-minded and compassionate pdoc. That's great. It makes a difference I would imagine when you feel comfortable and safe and know that the person has your best interests at heart and allows you to be an active participant in your treatment. Not many like that around. I am sure he knows how much you appreciate him. When you're up to it, perhaps you can find a really meaningful card and send it to him. I have often been touched more by a thoughtful card and the time the person spent in chosing just the right card than a gift.
Yes, I am very lucky to have found him. I didn't fully appreciate him until recently either. I didn't have the kind of rapport with him that I had with my female pdoc when I lived back east. I think that's because I talked to her about my problems whereas this guy deals basically with meds. But I've grown to see how kind and compassionate he is. I think it's a good idea to send a card. At least he'll know how much I truly appreciate his help.
> -- That's good that it is under control or in partial remission. Depression and anxiety are hard enough to deal with, things don't need to get even more complicated and distressing by adding CFS into the mix.
I don't think I could have coped with bad CFS bouts on top of the current situation.
> -- I didn't take any Provigil today and no nausea or headache. I may try again tomorrow to see what my reaction is. The headache was intermittent, but it was like one side of my head was being pierced by a knife. It was kind of scary at first. I agree, it would be nice if we had some inkling of how we would respond to the meds we have been prescribed. It starts to take its toll after a while when we experience one failure after another.
Yikes, that headache sounds horrible! Yes, I can see why you'd be scared. I was picturing a dull kind of an ache but it sounds much worse than that. That would definitely be hard to take on a full time basis! I hope that goes away. Yes, it does take a toll when we keep experiencing failures. You have responded in the past and I've had at least a partial response so we're not completely treatment resistant. It's just a matter of finding the right medicine or combo of meds and hopefully we can tolerate them. Did you read any of the post on the rEEG or QEEG diagnostics? This kind of brain mapping shows the doctors what is actually going on in the brains of depressed people. They then compare your pictures to those of people who have had success on certain meds. The doctors had less guesswork this way and they had much more success (I can't remember the exact figures) than doctors who just talked to people and then suggested meds. Of course then you still have to be able to tolerate the meds that they recommend. I thought it was fascinating reading about this and if I don't have much luck in the near future and I can get some health insurance, then I'm going to try to have this done. IMHO, time is too precious to waste much more of it trying things blindly.
> -- I'm sorry about the Zoloft. I don't think you are alone though (not that it's any consolation :-(). Some people have a hard time with it because of increased anxiety and agitation. I think it tends to be more activating than other SSRIs. I understand how discouraging it can be to be searching for the elusive med that will provide some measure of relief. Sometimes, even moderate relief would be welcome. I wonder if the Lithium you are thinking about adding eventually might help even out the effect of a more activating AD? I guess all we can hang on to is hope. As long as there are ADs we haven't tried, then there is still hope. But, I know that every failed trial brings with it a bit of discouragement.
If only these meds (Zoloft and Effexor) were stimulating when I took them before. I mean I wish that they had stimulated me to get going and get things done. I've also been reading about treatments that involve surgery and thinking for the first time that I might be desperate enough to try them - anything to make me feel like I want to get out of bed in the morning!
> -- You have to do what you think is best for you. It's good that you have enough emotional energy to be thinking about the things you want to do to help you recover. One thing at a time is a good credo. A support group would be wonderful and a great place to be among and learn from people who have been, or are going through, similar experiences. It is something I would like to do as well. Energy, drive and motivation - I hear you! That's the goal!It would take most of my waking hours to do all of things that I want to treat my condition esp. considering that I am not able to get moving until several hours after I've woken up. It's probably unrealistic to assume that I'll be able to do all of the things I've listed but I have made progress and I think it's beginning to pay off. I have a long way to go however. I just hope I can keep the momentum going.
> >
> -- I may well try the aminos again, maybe even this week. And, I may cave in and try the Clomipramine again and see if I can keep my blood pressure up with more salt tablets so that I can go up to 75mg. I don't know if I would ever be able to stick to the MAOI diet - I am a very fussy eater, and absolutely love cheese. I just hope the pdoc calls me back. In my e-mail to him I explained that I had suggested nort because some people had suggested that the side effects were less severe and it was better tolerated than clomipramine. Maybe that might help change his mind. Ed (ed_uk) had provided me with an article that validated that, so I could always e-mail that him for information. But, then again, I don't want to tick him off any more than I may already have :-)I hate that you have to worry about ticking off your doctor. We should be able to provide information and have some input in our own treatment. But realistically, you do have to appease him at least until you decide you want to go elsewhere. I wish you good luck if you try the clomipramine again and/or the aminos. I may try tryptophan or 5-htp myself soon. As for the MAOIs, I really like cheese too but I'd gladly trade that for a good antidepressant effect. It's my fear of hypertension and other side effects that has kept me from tyring them so far.
> -- That's right. We will keep fighting the good fight!There are no other good alternatives.
> -- Right back atcha Kara. And, thanks for your kindness and understanding.
Same to you. I find our talks very therapeutic.
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on March 2, 2005, at 14:01:29
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 21:48:45
> Hi,
>
> > Sorry I didn't remember you saying that about your fathers mood swings. My memory isn't the greatest these days (and doxepin doesn't help that either). So it sounds like you might be open to the possibility that you may have some bipolarity. We're probably on the same page on this one - we think there may be some of that or else it's hormonal. I think that if your doctor was going by the old definitions of bipolar illness then neither of us would qualify but the newer definitions include so much more than the extremes of depression and hypomania. The only symptom I have is that I get periods of agitation that aren't related to what's going on my life. That was enough for my pdoc to think I might benefit from adding a mood stabilizer.
>
-- I get the agitation as well. Sometimes I am so agitated that I feel like I could crawl out of my skin. The other thing I get, at times, is this extreme impatience. I keep it all inside, but sometimes I feel like I will explode. Like when I am in the grocery store or at the mall or walking along the sidewalk, and people are walking slow and cutting me off, etc., in my mind I am yelling one expletive after another.
> > >
> You're not a fraud! You did what you thought was best at the time. You probably hadn't even fully admitted to yourself the extent of your problem. That's a fairly normal response. You probably figured you wouldn't make too many waves and get the problem fixed in the meantime. Unfortunately it was harder to fix that you had anticipated. Besides, most people don't tell their supervisors the full scoop because they're concerned about their jobs. You can explain to your pdoc the next time you see him what the story is and how much more severe you think the problem is than you dared to admit.
>
-- I talked to him today. I don't think he had planned to call me back. But, I had called the office to make a follow-up appointment and he answered the phone (weird). We had a nice talk, and he has prescribed Nortriptyline. I couldn't believe it. He said I could try it, altough he doesn't think it is any different than Anafranil.> Cancelling an appointment and failing to make another one quickly are not grounds for being fed up with you and not calling you back!! If he has any compassion at all, he should be able to see that you're struggling right now and that you need his help. I can't stand most of these doctors and their egos. Also, if you have to fight tooth and nail just to get basic treatment, then maybe you're better off elsewhere anyway. If he doesn't call you back, then let him handle the people who are fine just taking the latest SSRI and who won't ask for anything more than that from him.
>
-- I think part of the problem was his former secretary. She could be quite rude and controlling at times. He is actually quite nice, but he finds it difficult to treat over the phone. I suppose I can understand, but body language is only one aspect of a diagnosis. When we talked about a new AD or re-trying Anafranil, he said what about Effexor. I reminded him that I had tried it for about 6 months and experienced severe night sweats, myclonus, apathy and some increased anxiety. In all fairness to him, he had forgotten and didn't have my file in front of him.
>
> Yikes, that headache sounds horrible! Yes, I can see why you'd be scared. I was picturing a dull kind of an ache but it sounds much worse than that. That would definitely be hard to take on a full time basis! I hope that goes away. Yes, it does take a toll when we keep experiencing failures. You have responded in the past and I've had at least a partial response so we're not completely treatment resistant. It's just a matter of finding the right medicine or combo of meds and hopefully we can tolerate them. Did you read any of the post on the rEEG or QEEG diagnostics? This kind of brain mapping shows the doctors what is actually going on in the brains of depressed people. They then compare your pictures to those of people who have had success on certain meds. The doctors had less guesswork this way and they had much more success (I can't remember the exact figures) than doctors who just talked to people and then suggested meds. Of course then you still have to be able to tolerate the meds that they recommend. I thought it was fascinating reading about this and if I don't have much luck in the near future and I can get some health insurance, then I'm going to try to have this done. IMHO, time is too precious to waste much more of it trying things blindly.
>
-- The first headache kind of scared me because it was so piercing. But, they didn't last too long, so that was good. I haven't read the thread on rEEG. Sounds interesting. I'll have to check that one out. I agree, if there is something available that could take the guesswork out of prescribing meds, then people should be able to take advantage of it. I sometimes wonder if doctors realize how much one failed drug trial after another affects a person's outlook. I mean, it can be hard enough to deal with the start-up side effects, then only to find out 6 weeks later that you have not responded and have another med with its own side effects to try. I agree with you that time is too precious. Do you think that by moving in with your friend you will be able to get some insurance?
>
> If only these meds (Zoloft and Effexor) were stimulating when I took them before. I mean I wish that they had stimulated me to get going and get things done. I've also been reading about treatments that involve surgery and thinking for the first time that I might be desperate enough to try them - anything to make me feel like I want to get out of bed in the morning!
>
-- I saw part of a clip on the news last night or the night before about I think it must have been the Vagus Nerve Stimulator. That involved surgergy as well. The clip said that 8 of the 10 people who participated in the trial responded and are now depression free. That's encouraging.
>
> It would take most of my waking hours to do all of things that I want to treat my condition esp. considering that I am not able to get moving until several hours after I've woken up. It's probably unrealistic to assume that I'll be able to do all of the things I've listed but I have made progress and I think it's beginning to pay off. I have a long way to go however. I just hope I can keep the momentum going.
> > >
-- I think as long as you are making an effort and doing what you can, then that is progress. Take it one thing at a time. And, if it is beginning to pay off, then that is very encouraging and incentive to keep trying. I find sometimes I make this big list of things I want to do - yoga, join a gym, longer walks; dance class, book club, . . . And, then I just feel overwhelmed with everything I want to do that I don't do hardly any of it. So, I am starting to make smaller, more achievable goals -one or two things at a time (well, when I am feeling a bit better). I don't know about you, but I find I sometimes sabatoge myself by being over-ambitious and impatient for results.
>
> I hate that you have to worry about ticking off your doctor. We should be able to provide information and have some input in our own treatment. But realistically, you do have to appease him at least until you decide you want to go elsewhere. I wish you good luck if you try the clomipramine again and/or the aminos. I may try tryptophan or 5-htp myself soon. As for the MAOIs, I really like cheese too but I'd gladly trade that for a good antidepressant effect. It's my fear of hypertension and other side effects that has kept me from tyring them so far.
>
-- I surprised myself with him today. I was worried about ticking him off, but I stood my ground. And, he was very good about it. So, right now, I will try the nort with the Celexa. My stomach has finally settled down (again) so I don't know if I want to take any chances with the Provigil. Maybe once I have been on the nort for a while (if it works), I will try Provigil again. You may find the L-Trytophan may be worth a try. Jas seems to have had pretty good results with it, with the exception of some insomnia. I tried 5-HTP last summer for about a week or so at 50mg and it just left me feeling groggy and tired in the morning. I have never tried Tryptophan though. L-Tyrosine at a low dose may give you some energy, increase motivation and decrease apathy. Last fall I ordered a very low dose (250 mg) to trial. The first time I tried it, I was using 500mg, two or three times a day and it was a bit much. I think, if I try it again, a lower dose might be better tolerated. Like Larry always says - Start low and go slow. But, who knows, maybe you will be able to try a MAOI in the near future after you move in with your friend and have some extra money.
>
> Same to you. I find our talks very therapeutic.
>
-- I do as well. Take care, and I'll talk to you soon.Tamara
>
>
Posted by KaraS on March 2, 2005, at 22:09:33
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 2, 2005, at 14:01:29
Hi,
> -- I get the agitation as well. Sometimes I am so agitated that I feel like I could crawl out of my skin. The other thing I get, at times, is this extreme impatience. I keep it all inside, but sometimes I feel like I will explode. Like when I am in the grocery store or at the mall or walking along the sidewalk, and people are walking slow and cutting me off, etc., in my mind I am yelling one expletive after another.
> > > >Yeah, I had the agitation, general anxiety, panic, morning trauma (upon awakening) and the impatience. It defies logic. We know there's no good reason to be that impatient but it's out of our control. I have to say that the doxepin has taken care of most of that. I'm still quite worried about the future but at least I can stand in line at the market and not freak out. I don't wake up in a panic anymore either. Once you get on the right medication, those problems will go away.
> -- I talked to him today. I don't think he had planned to call me back. But, I had called the office to make a follow-up appointment and he answered the phone (weird). We had a nice talk, and he has prescribed Nortriptyline. I couldn't believe it. He said I could try it, altough he doesn't think it is any different than Anafranil.
YAY!!!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!! I hope that you prove him wrong and the nort. works out really well. I bet you'll be able to tolerate it better than the Anafranil. Just remember to get your blood tested to make sure that you are within the therapeutic window for that drug.
> -- I think part of the problem was his former secretary. She could be quite rude and controlling at times. He is actually quite nice, but he finds it difficult to treat over the phone. I suppose I can understand, but body language is only one aspect of a diagnosis. When we talked about a new AD or re-trying Anafranil, he said what about Effexor. I reminded him that I had tried it for about 6 months and experienced severe night sweats, myclonus, apathy and some increased anxiety. In all fairness to him, he had forgotten and didn't have my file in front of him.
You can't blame him for not remembering all of your details. He must treat many people and would be impossible to remember all of their histories. I'm glad he was nice about it and that he relented on the nort. Glad the nasty secretary is gone too. That profession needs a good, kind admin person more than any other I can think of!
> -- The first headache kind of scared me because it was so piercing. But, they didn't last too long, so that was good. I haven't read the thread on rEEG. Sounds interesting. I'll have to check that one out. I agree, if there is something available that could take the guesswork out of prescribing meds, then people should be able to take advantage of it. I sometimes wonder if doctors realize how much one failed drug trial after another affects a person's outlook. I mean, it can be hard enough to deal with the start-up side effects, then only to find out 6 weeks later that you have not responded and have another med with its own side effects to try. I agree with you that time is too precious. Do you think that by moving in with your friend you will be able to get some insurance?
Exactly why that rEEG sounds so good to me. Plus supposedly it can tell you if you need a mood stabilizer and, if so, which one would be best. It can recommend if augmenting with cytomel would be a good idea. It has the potential to save so much time for people if it's really as good as they're claiming.
I still won't have enough money to get health insurance. I need a job for that. It's very hard to buy insurance on your own here especially when you have a pre-existing condition. Depression is one of the major things that they try not to cover. Apparently they can't make a lot of money off of us so why bother giving us healthcare? It's just disgusting.
I went to see the house today. It wasn't quite as nice as I imagined it would be. It needs some work (some of the other houses my friend looked at were in tip top shape with brand new everything) so I was a bit disappointed by comparison. My friend isn't going to have the money to fix it up either. However it was still nice and it's in a quiet, beautiful gated community. There's a small gym just a short distance from the house. I hope I'm making the right move here. I think it's better than staying where I am but I'm concerned about so many things. It won't be easy to not have my own place anymore. Also, I really wish her taste weren't so awful and I'm so not up for a move right now. I can't help but feel sorry for myself that I'm going to be in a situation like this at my age rather than owning my own home and having it decorated nicely. OK, whining is over. It felt good to get that out though.
> -- I saw part of a clip on the news last night or the night before about I think it must have been the Vagus Nerve Stimulator. That involved surgergy as well. The clip said that 8 of the 10 people who participated in the trial responded and are now depression free. That's encouraging.I'm interested in that as well as a last hope kind of a measure since it involves invasive surgery. Jerrympl went through a trail of that. He didn't respond to it but he knew of others in the study who had great responses.
> -- I think as long as you are making an effort and doing what you can, then that is progress. Take it one thing at a time. And, if it is beginning to pay off, then that is very encouraging and incentive to keep trying. I find sometimes I make this big list of things I want to do - yoga, join a gym, longer walks; dance class, book club, . . . And, then I just feel overwhelmed with everything I want to do that I don't do hardly any of it. So, I am starting to make smaller, more achievable goals -one or two things at a time (well, when I am feeling a bit better). I don't know about you, but I find I sometimes sabatoge myself by being over-ambitious and impatient for results.
Same here. I make all kinds of lists and plans all of the time. Realistically I won't be able to do all of it but I'll try to do what I can and try not to get discouraged because I'm not able to do it all.
> -- I surprised myself with him today. I was worried about ticking him off, but I stood my ground. And, he was very good about it. So, right now, I will try the nort with the Celexa. My stomach has finally settled down (again) so I don't know if I want to take any chances with the Provigil. Maybe once I have been on the nort for a while (if it works), I will try Provigil again. You may find the L-Trytophan may be worth a try. Jas seems to have had pretty good results with it, with the exception of some insomnia. I tried 5-HTP last summer for about a week or so at 50mg and it just left me feeling groggy and tired in the morning. I have never tried Tryptophan though. L-Tyrosine at a low dose may give you some energy, increase motivation and decrease apathy. Last fall I ordered a very low dose (250 mg) to trial. The first time I tried it, I was using 500mg, two or three times a day and it was a bit much. I think, if I try it again, a lower dose might be better tolerated. Like Larry always says - Start low and go slow. But, who knows, maybe you will be able to try a MAOI in the near future after you move in with your friend and have some extra money.
I've tried 5-htp before. I think I only took 50mg. to help me sleep. It did that but created some stomach problems. I haven't tried the enteric coated version yet though. I tried a bit of tryptophan many years ago for sleep and don't remember much about it. I may try it again sometime soon. Also, I've tried l-tyrosine. I got up to about 3,200 mg. a day on an empty stomach but didn't notice a thing - not even jitteryness. I used a couple of different quality brands too. Something just wasn't happening with that. I may try DLPA again. I've only used it in small dosages and not for a long enough period to really judge it. It would be so great if I could get aminos to work for me. So much easier and no doctors need to be involved.
> -- I do as well. Take care, and I'll talk to you soon.
I am crossing my fingers that the nort. will work wonders for you. You deserve it!
Have you started cutting back on cigarettes or have you stopped cold turkey yet?
Uggh! It's raining again. I can't stand it!!!
Talk to you later.Kara
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by TamaraJ on March 3, 2005, at 11:53:38
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 2, 2005, at 22:09:33
> Hi,
>
> >
> Yeah, I had the agitation, general anxiety, panic, morning trauma (upon awakening) and the impatience. It defies logic. We know there's no good reason to be that impatient but it's out of our control. I have to say that the doxepin has taken care of most of that. I'm still quite worried about the future but at least I can stand in line at the market and not freak out. I don't wake up in a panic anymore either. Once you get on the right medication, those problems will go away.
>
-- The morning panic/trauma is the worst. It's like - Oh crap, not again! It would be nice to wake up and at least have a couple of hours of peace of mind. I have found that taking magnesium (500mg) before bed has helped those feelings a bit. I'm glad for you that doxepin has helped you some. Even a small amount of relief is welcome, especially if the mornings have become a bit more tolerable. It's the impatience that I find the worst at times. I even have a hard time going shopping with anyone because I am so hyper and can get so impatient. I have to be able to zip into a store, take a quick scan, and leave when I realize there is nothing in there I am interested in. So many of my friends make shopping almost a sport! Puttering through the stores, purusing each and every rack, while I stand there thinking "there is nothing in here, let's go, go, go!" My friends and I go shopping in the States sometimes, and I try to make sure there are at least 3 of us so I can take off and shop at my hyper pace.
>
> YAY!!!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!! I hope that you prove him wrong and the nort. works out really well. I bet you'll be able to tolerate it better than the Anafranil. Just remember to get your blood tested to make sure that you are within the therapeutic window for that drug.
>
-- Thanks. I hope I can prove him wrong too. I am happy and a little nervous - so many failed trials. But, I will remain optimistic and hope for the best. I have been taking 25mg of the Anafranil for the past few days (I still had a small amount left) until I pick up the Nort prescription. Oh God, I hope it works. Have you ever considered trying Anafranil. I remember reading other people's experiences, and some were really positive. Banga, if I remember correctly, had said when she used it the first time, it was like going from black and white to color (or something like that). Given your sensitivity, maybe you wouldn't need a very high dose. I think for some people weight gain is a problem, but if you were able to keep the dose low (50mg - 75mg), it might not be a problem. I gained a bit, but I think that was mostly because I was finally able to eat again, so it was almost a given I would gain some. I just hope you can find something soon to help you. You deserve some relief.
>
> > You can't blame him for not remembering all of your details. He must treat many people and would be impossible to remember all of their histories. I'm glad he was nice about it and that he relented on the nort. Glad the nasty secretary is gone too. That profession needs a good, kind admin person more than any other I can think of!
>
-- Ya, he has a lot of patients. And, he is quite old - 76 years old. Not that that is any indication of a failing memory though. But, after probably 40 years in practice, he has a lot of patients' histories rolling around in his head. He's a pretty good guy. My mom met him the first time I went to see him (she had given me a lift, and his office is at the hospital, so she came up and waited with me). All she kept saying after she met him was how handsome he is. Good God! That's all I need is my crazy mother making a pass at my pdoc! Yipes!
>
> >
> Exactly why that rEEG sounds so good to me. Plus supposedly it can tell you if you need a mood stabilizer and, if so, which one would be best. It can recommend if augmenting with cytomel would be a good idea. It has the potential to save so much time for people if it's really as good as they're claiming.
>
-- Wouldn't that be great to have the guess work taken out of psychopharmocology! What a concept. It would almost be like taking it from an art to an actual science. You'd think the psychiatric community would want to pursue something like that with a vengeance. I hope more research (if that is what is needed) is put into it. The lives it could save.> I still won't have enough money to get health insurance. I need a job for that. It's very hard to buy insurance on your own here especially when you have a pre-existing condition. Depression is one of the major things that they try not to cover. Apparently they can't make a lot of money off of us so why bother giving us healthcare? It's just disgusting.
>
-- I'm sorry about that. I think that health care should be a basic human right. Everybody should have access to at least some form of health care regardless of income. It's true that universal, public health care systems have problems and inadequacies, but at least all citizens have access to the basics. Politicians need to get their priorities straight sometimes. Ok, I'll shut up now. Sorry for the rant.> I went to see the house today. It wasn't quite as nice as I imagined it would be. It needs some work (some of the other houses my friend looked at were in tip top shape with brand new everything) so I was a bit disappointed by comparison. My friend isn't going to have the money to fix it up either. However it was still nice and it's in a quiet, beautiful gated community. There's a small gym just a short distance from the house. I hope I'm making the right move here. I think it's better than staying where I am but I'm concerned about so many things. It won't be easy to not have my own place anymore. Also, I really wish her taste weren't so awful and I'm so not up for a move right now. I can't help but feel sorry for myself that I'm going to be in a situation like this at my age rather than owning my own home and having it decorated nicely. OK, whining is over. It felt good to get that out though.
>
-- That's a shame. But, rant away :-) It helps to get these things out. If we held it all in, we would explode. Years ago, my best friend asked me to move into a house that he and friend owned and were using as an income property (rooming house). I loved the neighborhood (it was within walking distance of the river, and all the amenities were there), but when we moved in, I realized what bad shape the house was in. Like you, I was disappointed and discouraged. But, once we got the furniture in there and did a little bit of painting, it wasn't that bad. And, slowly, over a couple of years, other things got done. That's nice about the gym being close by. Once you feel up to it, you can take advantage of that. So, that's a plus. And, it being in a nice neighborhood and a gated community will be reassuring as well. I don't think you are making the wrong move. I remember once talking to my gp about living arrangements in this day in age. I don't even remember why we started talking about it. Anyway, she said that these days people are making all kinds of arrangements, like sharing a house with a friend, living with a sibling, etc. There is no right or wrong these days. I never thought I would own a house or even that I wanted that responsibility. It just turned out that the landlords of the apartment I was living in were becoming unbearable and negligent and the place I bought was reasonably priced and came out to about the same as I would have been paying had I found a new apartment. But, I would not have hesitated to share a place with a good friend if that would have been the financially sound thing to do. And, I like the idea sometimes of having someone else there. I sure hope that your friend will be receptive to some of your decorating ideas. She has to realize that it will be your home too, and it needs to be inviting to you as well. Good luck with that. I will send telepathic messages to your friend - "You are open to suggestion. Accept some decorating tips and help" :-)
>>
> I'm interested in that as well as a last hope kind of a measure since it involves invasive surgery. Jerrympl went through a trail of that. He didn't respond to it but he knew of others in the study who had great responses.
>
-- It's nice to know it is there if and when the time comes to pursue a more aggressive treatment. I remember reading of Jerry's experience. I think he was the first to admit that his failure to respond was not necessarily indicative of the potential success of the treatment for others. I think he had some problems with frequency level or something. So, who knows, he may have eventually responded if they had kept tweaking the frequency.
> >
> Same here. I make all kinds of lists and plans all of the time. Realistically I won't be able to do all of it but I'll try to do what I can and try not to get discouraged because I'm not able to do it all.
>
-- That's all we can do - is do our best to do what we can. We have to feel good about our successes. And, success is not always measured by how much a person does, but rather by the effort a person puts into doing something and the person's good intentions. There! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! :-)
> >
> I've tried 5-htp before. I think I only took 50mg. to help me sleep. It did that but created some stomach problems. I haven't tried the enteric coated version yet though. I tried a bit of tryptophan many years ago for sleep and don't remember much about it. I may try it again sometime soon. Also, I've tried l-tyrosine. I got up to about 3,200 mg. a day on an empty stomach but didn't notice a thing - not even jitteryness. I used a couple of different quality brands too. Something just wasn't happening with that. I may try DLPA again. I've only used it in small dosages and not for a long enough period to really judge it. It would be so great if I could get aminos to work for me. So much easier and no doctors need to be involved.
>
-- You have nothing to lose by trying the aminos again. And, I agree, it would be nice to use something natural and achieve relief rather than having to rely on doctors. You could actually even consider a low dose AD with aminos to augment. I remember reading FredPotter's post about his success with L-Tyrosine as an augmenter. I like to hear success stories like that. I wish more family doctors and pdocs would become better informed of the treatment potential of amino acids and vitamin/mineral therapy. Maybe in the future, there will be a more integrated approach to dealing with depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses. Who knows.
>
> I am crossing my fingers that the nort. will work wonders for you. You deserve it!
>
-- Thanks Kara. Your support means a lot to me. I hope things start to look up for you too. You certainly deserve it.> Have you started cutting back on cigarettes or have you stopped cold turkey yet?
>
-- Well, I have realized that going cold turkey will be hard. So, I am cutting down day by day and will quit, hopefully, in the next couple of weeks. Yikes!> Uggh! It's raining again. I can't stand it!!!
>
-- Oh crap! That stinks! Rain, rain, go away - and stay away!. I'm going out to my backyard right now to do a sun dance for you :-)
>
> Take care, and I'll talk to you later.
>
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on March 4, 2005, at 21:26:19
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 3, 2005, at 11:53:38
> > Hi,
> -- The morning panic/trauma is the worst. It's like - Oh crap, not again! It would be nice to wake up and at least have a couple of hours of peace of mind. I have found that taking magnesium (500mg) before bed has helped those feelings a bit. I'm glad for you that doxepin has helped you some. Even a small amount of relief is welcome, especially if the mornings have become a bit more tolerable. It's the impatience that I find the worst at times. I even have a hard time going shopping with anyone because I am so hyper and can get so impatient. I have to be able to zip into a store, take a quick scan, and leave when I realize there is nothing in there I am interested in. So many of my friends make shopping almost a sport! Puttering through the stores, purusing each and every rack, while I stand there thinking "there is nothing in here, let's go, go, go!" My friends and I go shopping in the States sometimes, and I try to make sure there are at least 3 of us so I can take off and shop at my hyper pace.
I haven't been waking up with that panic lately. I'm amazed that this low level of doxepin has been able to take that away. It still don't want to get out of bed, however, and I end up resetting the alarm a hundred times (despite my promises to myself the night before that I'll wake up the first time the alarm goes off.) By now I've lost all credibility with myself. :-(
I bet your friends really enjoy shopping with you. Have you always been like that or is it a more recent phenomenon that goes along with your current anxiety state? It's good that you try to go with more than two people so you can zip around and not have to wait for others. I went to do a lot of errands yesterday - was gone at least 7 hours. That's the first time in weeks that I've been able to do that. At first I was pleased to have made the progress but then for some reason as the day wore on I felt very hopeless. I started obsessing about the future. I was tired and the bad traffic didn't help at all. If only I could stop worrying so much about the future.
> -- Thanks. I hope I can prove him wrong too. I am happy and a little nervous - so many failed trials. But, I will remain optimistic and hope for the best. I have been taking 25mg of the Anafranil for the past few days (I still had a small amount left) until I pick up the Nort prescription. Oh God, I hope it works. Have you ever considered trying Anafranil. I remember reading other people's experiences, and some were really positive. Banga, if I remember correctly, had said when she used it the first time, it was like going from black and white to color (or something like that). Given your sensitivity, maybe you wouldn't need a very high dose. I think for some people weight gain is a problem, but if you were able to keep the dose low (50mg - 75mg), it might not be a problem. I gained a bit, but I think that was mostly because I was finally able to eat again, so it was almost a given I would gain some. I just hope you can find something soon to help you. You deserve some relief.
Have you started the nort. yet? I also like to hear about people who have great success with something. It gives me hope. I've never had that kind of success yet. I've had partial mood lift which has allowed me to function but nothing that has made life seem worth living. I am determined, however, to find something that works even if I have to get invasive surgery (hopefully it won't come to that). Did you have that kind of success when you were on Paxil before it pooped-out? (That was what you took earlier, right?)
> -- Ya, he has a lot of patients. And, he is quite old - 76 years old. Not that that is any indication of a failing memory though. But, after probably 40 years in practice, he has a lot of patients' histories rolling around in his head. He's a pretty good guy. My mom met him the first time I went to see him (she had given me a lift, and his office is at the hospital, so she came up and waited with me). All she kept saying after she met him was how handsome he is. Good God! That's all I need is my crazy mother making a pass at my pdoc! Yipes!
Sounds like material for movie or a TV sitcom! Wow, still working at age 76. He must really like his job (or he'sone of those people who wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they retired). His age helps to explain his conservatism with medications too. But I'm glad he came through for you recently.
> -- Wouldn't that be great to have the guess work taken out of psychopharmocology! What a concept. It would almost be like taking it from an art to an actual science. You'd think the psychiatric community would want to pursue something like that with a vengeance. I hope more research (if that is what is needed) is put into it. The lives it could save.
Maybe the psychiatric community wouldn't want that kind of a tool. If a patient is easily diagnosed and treated, then there's no need to have them come in to the office a million times for further treatment. They might find their income dropping off significantly.
> -- I'm sorry about that. I think that health care should be a basic human right. Everybody should have access to at least some form of health care regardless of income. It's true that universal, public health care systems have problems and inadequacies, but at least all citizens have access to the basics. Politicians need to get their priorities straight sometimes. Ok, I'll shut up now. Sorry for the rant.I agree completely. It's just horrible that some people don't have access to health care. Actually the numbers are well over 40 million people in the U.S. without health care coverage. There are some free clinics but they are decreasing in number as the number of uninsureds has climbed. This problem will only get worse as budget cuts further curtail the services avaiable. Not a good situation.
> -- That's a shame. But, rant away :-) It helps to get these things out. If we held it all in, we would explode. Years ago, my best friend asked me to move into a house that he and friend owned and were using as an income property (rooming house). I loved the neighborhood (it was within walking distance of the river, and all the amenities were there), but when we moved in, I realized what bad shape the house was in. Like you, I was disappointed and discouraged. But, once we got the furniture in there and did a little bit of painting, it wasn't that bad. And, slowly, over a couple of years, other things got done. That's nice about the gym being close by. Once you feel up to it, you can take advantage of that. So, that's a plus. And, it being in a nice neighborhood and a gated community will be reassuring as well. I don't think you are making the wrong move. I remember once talking to my gp about living arrangements in this day in age. I don't even remember why we started talking about it. Anyway, she said that these days people are making all kinds of arrangements, like sharing a house with a friend, living with a sibling, etc. There is no right or wrong these days. I never thought I would own a house or even that I wanted that responsibility. It just turned out that the landlords of the apartment I was living in were becoming unbearable and negligent and the place I bought was reasonably priced and came out to about the same as I would have been paying had I found a new apartment. But, I would not have hesitated to share a place with a good friend if that would have been the financially sound thing to do. And, I like the idea sometimes of having someone else there. I sure hope that your friend will be receptive to some of your decorating ideas. She has to realize that it will be your home too, and it needs to be inviting to you as well. Good luck with that. I will send telepathic messages to your friend - "You are open to suggestion. Accept some decorating tips and help" :-)
It'll probably work out and, if not, then I'll have to get my own place again. In the meantime I'll have the company as you said. You're a riot with the telepathic messages about decorating. I think she's way beyond hope though.> -- It's nice to know it is there if and when the time comes to pursue a more aggressive treatment. I remember reading of Jerry's experience. I think he was the first to admit that his failure to respond was not necessarily indicative of the potential success of the treatment for others. I think he had some problems with frequency level or something. So, who knows, he may have eventually responded if they had kept tweaking the frequency.
I asked him that same question about whether he might have given it more of a chance. He said that they did try changing the frequency and it didn't help and the researchers told him to forget it. How incredibly discouraging to go through something that dramatic and not get results. I'd have felt completely hopeless after that.
> -- You have nothing to lose by trying the aminos again. And, I agree, it would be nice to use something natural and achieve relief rather than having to rely on doctors. You could actually even consider a low dose AD with aminos to augment. I remember reading FredPotter's post about his success with L-Tyrosine as an augmenter. I like to hear success stories like that. I wish more family doctors and pdocs would become better informed of the treatment potential of amino acids and vitamin/mineral therapy. Maybe in the future, there will be a more integrated approach to dealing with depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses. Who knows.
That would be nice but for now you have to combine the meds and the supplements on your own or search for one of those rare doctors who know both. I remember being jealous of Fred Potter's success with l-tyrosine. If that had worked to augment the Effexor last year then I wouldn't have had to go through this last horrible spell of anxiety and depression. Oh well, nothing to be gained by obsessing about something I had no control over.
> -- Well, I have realized that going cold turkey will be hard. So, I am cutting down day by day and will quit, hopefully, in the next couple of weeks. Yikes!
Yikes is right. You'll fee so much better in the long run but in the short run you might have some withdrawal effects. Hope that you're able to tell what is nicotine withdrawal and what are side effects from the nort.
> -- Oh crap! That stinks! Rain, rain, go away - and stay away!. I'm going out to my backyard right now to do a sun dance for you :-
We've had more rain but with some breakthrough sun sometimes so your sun dance partially worked.
> > Take care, and I'll talk to you later.Ditto.
k
Posted by TamaraJ on March 5, 2005, at 11:33:42
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 4, 2005, at 21:26:19
> > > Hi Kara,
>
>
> I haven't been waking up with that panic lately. I'm amazed that this low level of doxepin has been able to take that away. It still don't want to get out of bed, however, and I end up resetting the alarm a hundred times (despite my promises to myself the night before that I'll wake up the first time the alarm goes off.) By now I've lost all credibility with myself. :-(
>
-- That is good news! Try not to worry Kara. The day will come when you will not be hitting the snooze button for as long. My bedside clock is always set about 1/2 an hour ahead so that I can hit the snooze button over and over and over again before I get out of bed! My warped logic has me somehow convinced that I am getting more sleep this way. It's human nature to want to grab as many winks as we can. I am sure that once you find the right med and get your depression under even moderate control, you will be more inclined to hit the snooze button less. And, your credibility with yourself will be back :-)
> I bet your friends really enjoy shopping with you. Have you always been like that or is it a more recent phenomenon that goes along with your current anxiety state? It's good that you try to go with more than two people so you can zip around and not have to wait for others. I went to do a lot of errands yesterday - was gone at least 7 hours. That's the first time in weeks that I've been able to do that. At first I was pleased to have made the progress but then for some reason as the day wore on I felt very hopeless. I started obsessing about the future. I was tired and the bad traffic didn't help at all. If only I could stop worrying so much about the future.
>
-- I guess. I don't show my impatience outwardly, so that's a good thing. And, I try to contain myself when my friends want to spend lots of time trying things on (I can't be bothered trying things on - I know my size and what I like, so I usually just head to the cash with my purchases). I have been that way for years - a hyper, get in and get out type of shopper. That's great about your day of errands. That's an accomplishment and you should be proud of yourself. And you drove as well! That's wonderful! I know what you mean about the hopeless feeling, and I can so relate to that. But, you were probably feeling tired and a bit drained from all that you had done that day. I mean, really, that would have been a full day even for someone without depression. When I get that hopeless feeling I kind of step back and think about what else is going on, and, more often than not, I realize that I am just feeling tired and drained, and that it probably is not the best time to think about things like the future. So, I try to turn my thinking to something else - even if it is just to taking out the garbage or getting the kitchen organized. Anything to distract myself from the feelings of hopelessness until I have had a chance to get some sleep and recharge a bit. And, don't forget, you have a lot on your plate right now - the upcoming move, a complete change in your living arrangements, trying to decide on a new med. . . So, not to sound like a nudge, but be patient and gentle with yourself. Once you get settled, the feelings of hopelessness will likely subside somewhat. Right now, it's just a lot to deal with and think about. I so wish for you peace of mind Kara.
> >
> Have you started the nort. yet? I also like to hear about people who have great success with something. It gives me hope. I've never had that kind of success yet. I've had partial mood lift which has allowed me to function but nothing that has made life seem worth living. I am determined, however, to find something that works even if I have to get invasive surgery (hopefully it won't come to that). Did you have that kind of success when you were on Paxil before it pooped-out? (That was what you took earlier, right?)
>
-- I took my first dose last night. So, time will tell. Ya, I think the success stories keep us going. I am sure it is only a matter of time before you have that type of success. You've had partial success, so it is now just a matter of finding the right med or combo of meds for you. I had a really good response to Paxil. It was rough the first few weeks - increased anxiety, nausea, etc. But, once it kicked in and started being active again, I was like my old self again. I am still kicking myself in the butt for stopping it a couple of years ago. I should have continued with a low, maintainence dose. Oh well, live and learn. Like you, I hang on to hope. If hope is all we have sometimes to keep us going through the rough times, then we have to hang on to it with both hands.
> >
> Sounds like material for movie or a TV sitcom! Wow, still working at age 76. He must really like his job (or he'sone of those people who wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they retired). His age helps to explain his conservatism with medications too. But I'm glad he came through for you recently.
>
-- My mom is a strange bird sometimes. She keeps wanting me to go on a cruise with her so she can "meet a hunk". Can you imagine! I always tell she's all talk no action :-) My pdoc really does seem to love his work. But, he does have outside interests, and he has, I think, a big, loving family. So, I am sure that when he decides to retire, he won't be without things to him occupied.
> >
> Maybe the psychiatric community wouldn't want that kind of a tool. If a patient is easily diagnosed and treated, then there's no need to have them come in to the office a million times for further treatment. They might find their income dropping off significantly.
>
-- You have probably hit the nail on the head. Sometimes it all comes down to money. What a shame :-(
> > >
> I agree completely. It's just horrible that some people don't have access to health care. Actually the numbers are well over 40 million people in the U.S. without health care coverage. There are some free clinics but they are decreasing in number as the number of uninsureds has climbed. This problem will only get worse as budget cuts further curtail the services avaiable. Not a good situation.
>
-- That is almost criminal. I am sure there must be some kind of corelation between a healthy society and a healthy economy. People have enough to worry about these days that stressing over whether they can afford to see a doctor or have a necessary surgery shouldn't be one of them. I suppose to a lot of politicians there are just more important things to spend money on. What a shame.
> >
> It'll probably work out and, if not, then I'll have to get my own place again. In the meantime I'll have the company as you said. You're a riot with the telepathic messages about decorating. I think she's way beyond hope though.
>
-- That's right. You won't know until you try. And, you know you always have the option of getting your own place again.
> >
> I asked him that same question about whether he might have given it more of a chance. He said that they did try changing the frequency and it didn't help and the researchers told him to forget it. How incredibly discouraging to go through something that dramatic and not get results. I'd have felt completely hopeless after that.
>
-- That's too bad that the researchers gave up. Who knows what a little extra tweaking might have done. I agree that it would have been discouraging. I, too, would have felt some level of hopelessness. It's so nice to hear the optimism in Jerry's words now though isn't it. I have been following his Opiates trial threads, and I am so happy for him that he is experiencing some measure of relief. Another positive story of success to hold on it. Thank goodness!
> >
> That would be nice but for now you have to combine the meds and the supplements on your own or search for one of those rare doctors who know both. I remember being jealous of Fred Potter's success with l-tyrosine. If that had worked to augment the Effexor last year then I wouldn't have had to go through this last horrible spell of anxiety and depression. Oh well, nothing to be gained by obsessing about something I had no control over.
>
-- Those doctors, I think, are few and far between. I remember when I asked my gp and pdoc if I could try aminos and they both just kind of dismissed the suggestion with a wave of a hand and said sure go ahead. Me too - I was somewhat jealous of Fred's success! I was happy for him, but I thought why couldn't that have been me. Oh well, we're human, so it is only natural to feel that way sometimes. And, who knows, maybe you will have that kind of success if you try the DLPA again and play around with the dose. I can't remember, did you ever try Acetyl L-Carnitine? It is another supplement that is supposed to be effective for increasing motivation and decreasing apathy. I also read that it is effective for chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms. Once I have increased my dose of nort, I may try adding a couple of natural supplements - probably NADH and L-Carnitine.
>
> Yikes is right. You'll fee so much better in the long run but in the short run you might have some withdrawal effects. Hope that you're able to tell what is nicotine withdrawal and what are side effects from the nort.
>
-- You are right! I think smoking can be a stimulant, but it also can be quite physically draining. I know the withdrawal will be brutal for a few days, but that is to be expected. Maybe by the time I quit, I will have already been through the worst of the nort side effects so I won't be dealing with both side effects and withdrawal. I hope so.
> >
> We've had more rain but with some breakthrough sun sometimes so your sun dance partially worked.
>
-- That's good. I'll have to dance a bit longer and a bit harder next time :-) Seriously though, I hope the rain lets up for an extended period of time soon.
>
Take care Kara. Until next time.Tamara
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 17:15:48
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 5, 2005, at 11:33:42
Hey Tamara!
Best of luck with the nortriptyline :-) I look forward to hearing how you do. I think it could be the one!
Ed x
Posted by KaraS on March 5, 2005, at 17:59:42
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 17:15:48
> Hey Tamara!
>
> Best of luck with the nortriptyline :-) I look forward to hearing how you do. I think it could be the one!
>
> Ed x
I remember when "finding the one" used to mean finding a mate. I never imagined that for me it would come to mean finding the right drug. Anyway, I hope we all "find the right one".K
Posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 10:35:54
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » ed_uk, posted by KaraS on March 5, 2005, at 17:59:42
Hi K,
LOL, please forgive me for my embarrasing use of language!
Ed x
Posted by KaraS on March 6, 2005, at 15:22:06
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 10:35:54
> Hi K,
>
> LOL, please forgive me for my embarrasing use of language!
>
> Ed x
Ed,Nothing to forgive. We all use that term. I was just waxing philosophical for a moment.
K
Posted by KaraS on March 6, 2005, at 16:16:29
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 5, 2005, at 11:33:42
Hi,
> >
> >
> -- That is good news! Try not to worry Kara. The day will come when you will not be hitting the snooze button for as long. My bedside clock is always set about 1/2 an hour ahead so that I can hit the snooze button over and over and over again before I get out of bed! My warped logic has me somehow convinced that I am getting more sleep this way. It's human nature to want to grab as many winks as we can. I am sure that once you find the right med and get your depression under even moderate control, you will be more inclined to hit the snooze button less. And, your credibility with yourself will be back :-)
>Ah, so you hit the snooze button a lot too. I've started to set my alarm earlier as well. (Unfortunately that gives me more reason to keep hitting that snooze button.) I'm hoping that when I have to be some place that I won't continue to hit the snooze button. We shall see.
> -- I guess. I don't show my impatience outwardly, so that's a good thing. And, I try to contain myself when my friends want to spend lots of time trying things on (I can't be bothered trying things on - I know my size and what I like, so I usually just head to the cash with my purchases). I have been that way for years - a hyper, get in and get out type of shopper. That's great about your day of errands. That's an accomplishment and you should be proud of yourself. And you drove as well! That's wonderful! I know what you mean about the hopeless feeling, and I can so relate to that. But, you were probably feeling tired and a bit drained from all that you had done that day. I mean, really, that would have been a full day even for someone without depression. When I get that hopeless feeling I kind of step back and think about what else is going on, and, more often than not, I realize that I am just feeling tired and drained, and that it probably is not the best time to think about things like the future. So, I try to turn my thinking to something else - even if it is just to taking out the garbage or getting the kitchen organized. Anything to distract myself from the feelings of hopelessness until I have had a chance to get some sleep and recharge a bit. And, don't forget, you have a lot on your plate right now - the upcoming move, a complete change in your living arrangements, trying to decide on a new med. . . So, not to sound like a nudge, but be patient and gentle with yourself. Once you get settled, the feelings of hopelessness will likely subside somewhat. Right now, it's just a lot to deal with and think about. I so wish for you peace of mind Kara.
If your method of shopping works for you, then no harm done. I'm the opposite though. I don't want to have to worry about taking it back if it doesn't fit so I always try things on. I saw a segment on the news the other day about some retailers having limits on the amount of things that can be brought back within certain timeframes. The person who always just brought things home was not allowed to return some things because of this policy and it led to a story on the news.
I think that doing some CBT or trying to redirect thoughts to something else are good solutions (if one can manage it) when one starts to negatively worry and obsess. Who knows, maybe even the tapping will, in time, help with this kind of thing. And maybe medication could help eventually.
> -- I took my first dose last night. So, time will tell. Ya, I think the success stories keep us going. I am sure it is only a matter of time before you have that type of success. You've had partial success, so it is now just a matter of finding the right med or combo of meds for you. I had a really good response to Paxil. It was rough the first few weeks - increased anxiety, nausea, etc. But, once it kicked in and started being active again, I was like my old self again. I am still kicking myself in the butt for stopping it a couple of years ago. I should have continued with a low, maintainence dose. Oh well, live and learn. Like you, I hang on to hope. If hope is all we have sometimes to keep us going through the rough times, then we have to hang on to it with both hands.
So how is the nort. treating you so far??? Any side effects or problems? Hopefully it's ok. I had tachycardia from it but you would have noticed that on the first pill so chances are you're not going to have that problem. Don't beat yourself up about going off of the Paxil. There's no way you could have known about future med problems. I feel that away about the Effexor sometimes but I went off of it for a good reason and I just keep telling myself that.
> -- My mom is a strange bird sometimes. She keeps wanting me to go on a cruise with her so she can "meet a hunk". Can you imagine! I always tell she's all talk no action :-) My pdoc really does seem to love his work. But, he does have outside interests, and he has, I think, a big, loving family. So, I am sure that when he decides to retire, he won't be without things to him occupied.
Both of your parents are characters! Definitely lots of material for a sitcom! As for your doctor, I really envy him. I wish I had a career I loved and that gave me a sense of fulfillment.
> -- That is almost criminal. I am sure there must be some kind of corelation between a healthy society and a healthy economy. People have enough to worry about these days that stressing over whether they can afford to see a doctor or have a necessary surgery shouldn't be one of them. I suppose to a lot of politicians there are just more important things to spend money on. What a shame.Criminal is exactly the word. And even those who have health insurance can be completely ruined financially if they or one of their family members develops a horrible disease or condition because insurance only pays for so much. Besides, insurance companies always find excuses not to cover things. They love to call procedures "experimental" and that way they don't have to pay for them. The politicians always give lip service to changing our healthcare system but nothing ever happens once they get elected. To be fair, Clinton tried to do this but Congress gave too much resistance. Part of the reason was that he put Hillary in charge of the whole thing and everyone balked at her being given this role. Afterall, who was she? No one elected her to anything (at the time). Lots of sexism involved too.
> -- That's right. You won't know until you try. And, you know you always have the option of getting your own place again.Yeah, I'm sure it's the best move in the short-term. It's just my heightened state of anxiety, given recent events, that has me questioning my decision.
> -- That's too bad that the researchers gave up. Who knows what a little extra tweaking might have done. I agree that it would have been discouraging. I, too, would have felt some level of hopelessness. It's so nice to hear the optimism in Jerry's words now though isn't it. I have been following his opiates trial threads, and I am so happy for him that he is experiencing some measure of relief. Another positive story of success to hold on it. Thank goodness!
I just hope that this therapy continues to work for Jerry. There are lots of dangers with opiates and the chances are great that he will require higher and higher dosages in the future.
> -- Those doctors, I think, are few and far between. I remember when I asked my gp and pdoc if I could try aminos and they both just kind of dismissed the suggestion with a wave of a hand and said sure go ahead. Me too - I was somewhat jealous of Fred's success! I was happy for him, but I thought why couldn't that have been me. Oh well, we're human, so it is only natural to feel that way sometimes. And, who knows, maybe you will have that kind of success if you try the DLPA again and play around with the dose. I can't remember, did you ever try Acetyl L-Carnitine? It is another supplement that is supposed to be effective for increasing motivation and decreasing apathy. I also read that it is effective for chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms. Once I have increased my dose of nort, I may try adding a couple of natural supplements - probably NADH and L-Carnitine.What was your response to the l-tyrosine? I thought that helped you but my memory is failing me. I tried acetyl-l-carnitine along with DMAE and phosphatidylserine for several weeks and didn't notice any improvement. I'm sure that they were doing good things in my body but nothing that I could really pinpoint in terms of depression or increased concentration. I only took 100 mg. of DMAE and PS though. I don't remember the ALC dose. Maybe I didn't go high enough on any of them. I don't have the money now or I'd like to try taking larger doses of PS to lower my cortisol. The NADH and ALC seemed to work well for you. Good to know that you have those augmentors available to you.
> -- You are right! I think smoking can be a stimulant, but it also can be quite physically draining. I know the withdrawal will be brutal for a few days, but that is to be expected. Maybe by the time I quit, I will have already been through the worst of the nort side effects so I won't be dealing with both side effects and withdrawal. I hope so.
That could be right and if you sense trouble from the nicotine withdrawal, you can always slow down the process. I think it's a great sign that you're motivated to quit smoking now.
> -- That's good. I'll have to dance a bit longer and a bit harder next time :-) Seriously though, I hope the rain lets up for an extended period of time soon.
Your raindance worked. It's really sunny here today and the prediction is for several more days of this to follow. So, please don't stop the dancing!!! (It could also help you deal with cigarette withdrawal and work wonders for your anxiety.) :-)
Talk to you later. Now I think I'm going to force my butt outside to take a walk.
Kara
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.