![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:16:04
I'm not trying to have an eating disorder. I'm not pretending to have an eating disorder. I don't want to have an eating disorder.
I think I do have some sort of disorder. I think I've had it since I was little.
When I was little and got upset I used to eat large amounts of food. Then when my body starting changing I had *major* body image issues. Then I started purging on and off for a few years.
Just because I purge on and off doesn't mean I don't have a problem! This whole thing isn't new to me. I didn't *suddenly* get an eating disorder.
How come it feels like some people are invalidating my experience and minimizing my difficulties?
How come I don't feel supported here? How come it feels like some people are saying that *they* have an eating disorder, but I don't?
Am I supposed to pretend I don't have a problem?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:31:37
In reply to I *do* have a problem, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:16:04
I HATE this! I'm stressed out! I can't stop eating! I can't stop purging! I can't stop obsessing about weight and calories and I feel like people are saying I'm just doing this to myself on purpose, that I trying to develop an eating disorder.
This is making me very upset!
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 0:18:44
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:31:37
I think people mean well. Sorry if I'm frustrating to try to help.
Perhaps it's sometimes better to just say, "I wish you the best" or offer a cyber hug.
Deneb*
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 31, 2006, at 7:48:12
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:31:37
Hi Deneb,
I'm sorry you're stressed out. Just because you may have never been in treatment for an Eating Disorder, or just because you fail to meet ALL of the diagnostic criteria for eating disorders doesn't mean that you are 100% well.If you are concerned about binge-purge obsessional thoughts about body image and things like that, I would definitely recommend that you talk to a counsellor or a therapist. Strong recommendation.
Maybe the frustration you are experiencing is because you would like for someone to validate your experiences? Well, I have gone through phases of poor body image, disordered eating "dieting" and exercise bingeing. Never met diagnostic criteria, never sought treatment. In retrospect, that stuff was a symptom of my first major depressive episode some 6 years ago.
Maybe people on this board are having a hard time responding to you because so many are currently in treatment, or have experienced treatment for eating disorders. So, it may be really hard for other posters to read about Deneb* and her disordered eating.
So, yes, you may very well have a problem. That's why I think you should start working on this stuff in therapy. It sounds like you have a lot of pain and you're really struggling. I'm so sorry. You deserve to feel better about yourself. A lot of times I have a hard time expressing my pain or my suffering in words, so, I try to take it out on my body, or to make the outside of my person match the inside of my "rotted self". All of it is a very disguised demand for HELP.
I want you to get help in real life, if any of my experiences ring true for you. Medication is fine, but the real work takes place in therapy. That's what both of my Ts and my pdoc said.
in order to have disordered eating, you must have disordered thinking. Find the disordered thoughts, root them out and find a way to keep them from sprouting again, and you'll feel better. Not only about your body, but about your academic accomplishments, your relationships and your plans for your life in general. (ideally!)
your friend,
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 31, 2006, at 12:19:59
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem » Deneb, posted by Lindenblüte on October 31, 2006, at 7:48:12
>>>>How come I don't feel supported here?
I'm sorry you feel this way, but I don't completely understand. There are some posts here to you that you haven't even responded to - Even if only to refute (nevermind try and engage in something deeper).
What would feel supportive to you? I want to help Deneb but can't figure out how. I've tried my best to write sensitive replies but I think I need you to tell me what *you* need.
I guess I've been confused because I can't tell if you want to improve upon whatever disordered behaviours you have, or if you want to figure out how to engage in them better (if you want me to I could give examples of why I wonder that sometimes, so you wouldn't think I'm saying it out of malice or something, but, truly truly truly, I DON'T want you even more upset, so I'll leave it at that for now). If the stuff that I interpret is that, and not just me getting mixed up, then it's nothing to be ashamed of, or hear as an attack. Ambivalence is a very common psychological symptom of all disordered eating. If I point it out, is it helpful (as in, helps identify recovery pitfalls), or No? But I'm stuck as on how to approach you without making you upset - I'm kinda dense that way.
If you've found my posts offensive then you may tell me straight out :-) For real - I wouldn't be mad. You can always ask me to clarify my content or my tone. But I never *tried* to invalidate, only to impart some info, and personal experience. Honestly I tried kinda hard to be very sensitive, and am kinda sad myself that after all that I seemed to have failed. Where I've made somewhat personal statements about you, I made sure to base them on words you already used yourself. I may have asked questions that didn't have ED words or labels attached, but that doesn't mean the content wasn't related. They're not statements of invalidation. Behind ED's and labels and terminology is just a bunch of regular problems in hiding - and I've learned that it's those that need to be focused on to improve or recover. Perhaps that's too much of a jump for you right now. Would you appreciate actual concrete symptom-controlling strategies instead? [though I'd never advise how to starve better in order to negate a binge, or anything like that. But I'm sure you wouldn't have assumed that right :-) ] I can't appoligize for having a strong stance on the destructiveness of disordered eating and behaviour -- I won't -- but I don't think I've ever withheld support or worse by confusing the person with my overall beliefs. [I'm NOT saying that you express this in any of this thread, but I would be down right offended if someone accused me of knowingly being hostile towards another person that way. It would make me feel like someone was telling me that *I* think ED's are a neat club or something, that I feel need group-approved gold stars to join in on, and I've taken it upon myself to be the one to hand them out. If I was ever gonna get mad about anything, it'd be then] Please tell me if you've interpreted something I've written differently.
So if you want the support you feel you're not getting, please respond to me and tell me the best way to impart that so I, so we, can know. I'm geninely (friendly-ly) confused.
I'm no one's enemy here. You know I'm a friend right?
blove, EL
Posted by Racer on October 31, 2006, at 13:11:56
In reply to I *do* have a problem, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2006, at 20:16:04
OK. You have a problem.
What are you going to do about it? Are you looking for someone to hold your hand and say, "Oh, that's too bad?" Are you looking for advice on how to get help for you problem? What are you looking for?
Deneb, I'm not going to engage in much discussion on this topic, for reasons of my own. I'm only going to say this: I think you need to be in regular therapy if you want to get over your problems. Not seeing a pdoc once every three or four weeks, but minimum once weekly sessions with a qualified psychotherapist. I think DBT would also help you, but regular therapy of any sort is the most important thing. I've said that before. Others have also said that before. I don't know anything else to offer as advice.
The choice is yours, of course.
That's really all I know to say to you, though.
Posted by zazenducky on October 31, 2006, at 15:12:33
In reply to OK, so what are you going to do about it? » Deneb, posted by Racer on October 31, 2006, at 13:11:56
I'm usually not a hugger but I thought you might need one .
You did a good job using your voice as they say in the ED world!
When people choose to be unkind or unhelpful or seemingly to judge you or reject you, sometimes it helps to remember that it's probably because of their own problems not because of you.
I wish I had more to offer you but I thought a hug was better than nothing.
Posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 21:22:10
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem, posted by ElaineM on October 31, 2006, at 12:19:59
((((((((Elaine)))))))))
You're very supportive. I value your thoughts on this.
> What would feel supportive to you? I want to help Deneb but can't figure out how. I've tried my best to write sensitive replies but I think I need you to tell me what *you* need.
I'm not sure what I need. Maybe I want people to comfort me. I don't seem to take well to "tough love".
> I guess I've been confused because I can't tell if you want to improve upon whatever disordered behaviours you have, or if you want to figure out how to engage in them betterI want to stop purging and I want to stop overeating. I want to lose about 15 pounds. It's mainly the purging I have a problem with.
> If you've found my posts offensive then you may tell me straight out :-) For real - I wouldn't be mad.
(((((Elaine))))) Your posts are very caring. I don't find them offensive.
> Would you appreciate actual concrete symptom-controlling strategies instead?
That might be helpful. I came up with a few myself:
- Hide my "puke" bucket
- Get rid of plastic bags
- Go for a walk
- Journal> I can't appoligize for having a strong stance on the destructiveness of disordered eating and behaviour
You're right to have a strong stance, considering how destructive EDs can be.
((((Elaine)))) I know you care. You spent a lot of time and energy writing to me.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on October 31, 2006, at 21:32:07
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 21:22:10
>
> That might be helpful. I came up with a few myself:
>
> - Hide my "puke" bucket
> - Get rid of plastic bags
> - Go for a walk
> - Journal
>
>I notice something that's not listed there: getting treatment.
Good luck to you.
Posted by ElaineM on October 31, 2006, at 23:07:33
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 21:22:10
Deneb, I just saw some of your responses, and I wanted to say that I appreciate you answering. It's pretty late for me though, and I think I'm going to try and find a different approach. I'll get back to you soon (I have appointments tomorrow). (Do you find it less threatening if I limit the questions in my posts to only a few? So it doesn't seem like so much. Do you find the length of posts difficult, or does that not bother you?)
blove, EL
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2006, at 7:55:41
In reply to (((((((Deneb))))))))), posted by zazenducky on October 31, 2006, at 15:12:33
> it feels like some people are invalidating my experience and minimizing my difficulties?
>
> Deneb*> There are some posts here to you that you haven't even responded to
>
> ElaineM> Are you looking for someone to hold your hand and say, "Oh, that's too bad?
>
> Racer> When people choose to be unkind or unhelpful or seemingly to judge you or reject you, sometimes it helps to remember that it's probably because of their own problems not because of you.
>
> zazenduckyPlease don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Deneb, I'm sorry if you feel left out.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 1, 2006, at 10:31:22
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem » Deneb, posted by Lindenblüte on October 31, 2006, at 7:48:12
> Maybe the frustration you are experiencing is because you would like for someone to validate your experiences?
>
> Maybe people on this board are having a hard time responding to you because so many are currently in treatment, or have experienced treatment for eating disorders. So, it may be really hard for other posters to read about Deneb* and her disordered eating.I'm not sure why I alone passed through the civility gauntlet. The statements I wrote above strike me as uncivil. I would like to remind myself to be more careful, and to apologize to the people on this board who find my statements above uncivil. I would also like to voice my regrets that I had to learn about civility because so many nice people got a PBC all at once. I hope nobody is really hurting because of the PBC.
please take care everyone,
-Lijust because I pbc myself doesn't mean I don't like myself. (but it doesn't mean that I like myself either *grin*)
Posted by Deneb on November 1, 2006, at 14:21:03
In reply to Re: please be civil » Deneb » ElaineM » Racer » zazenducky, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2006, at 7:55:41
Sorry Dr. Bob, sorry to whomever I hurt.
I shouldn't post things that might make others feel bad. This is tricky Bob. I really thought I was civil because I expressed my *feelings* and I didn't think I directed them towards anyone.
Should I just keep bad feelings that result from interactions on Babble to myself?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 1, 2006, at 14:27:56
In reply to Re: please be civil » Deneb » ElaineM » Racer » zazenducky, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2006, at 7:55:41
> > it feels like some people are invalidating my experience and minimizing my difficulties?
> >
> > Deneb*It just occurred to me that "invalidating my experience" and "minimizing my difficulties" are not feelings.
Maybe I should have just written, "I feel frustrated" and not imply that anyone here led me to feel that way.
Maybe it doesn't matter how I word things, if it can make a poster feel bad I shouldn't write it.
Deneb*
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 1, 2006, at 16:01:02
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Deneb on November 1, 2006, at 14:27:56
how about this one:
I'm having problems feeling that my experiences are validated.
I feel frustrated when I think that people minimize my difficulties.
these are *really* hard to reword in a civil way. I probably am treading a very fine line here, but I will risk it. Any contribution from deputies/admin would be appreciated.
I dont' think you're the only one who feels like this though. I understood that sentiment.
Many days I struggle (not so much here on babble, but IRL) with the dilemma- do I make more of a fuss about my struggles? will that help people understand me better? I wonder why people that CARE don't seem to listen to me, or seem interested, concerned, worried about my difficulties. I wonder why people are not able to hear me when I say something that is HUGE to me, and I feel frustrated when they seem to say that my feelings and struggles are insignificant. To me, they're significant, and that's all I was trying to express. So, I feel really torn- do I exaggerate, hoping that they will listen to me? But if I exaggerate, will they think I'm crazier than I really am? For instance, if I exaggerate to my T, will T think I'm in bad enough shape to recommend me to go to the hospital (my ultimate nightmare)? So the dilemma- hold my tongue and feel like no one hears me. Feeling all alone. unimportant. OR do I exaggerate (either my behaviors or my descriptions of my thoughts or behaviors) in an effort to get noticed, heard, understood, validated.
You're not the only one who has struggled with this Deneb*. It's really uncomfortable, at least for me.
hugs,
-Li
Posted by Racer on November 3, 2006, at 12:49:50
In reply to Re: I *do* have a problem » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 21:22:10
>
> That might be helpful. I came up with a few myself:
>
> - Hide my "puke" bucket
> - Get rid of plastic bagsOr maybe with a little help? "The Snapper"
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2006, at 21:39:01
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Deneb on November 1, 2006, at 14:27:56
> Maybe I should have just written, "I feel frustrated" and not imply that anyone here led me to feel that way.
Thanks for working on this. The above would be one way, but I thought Lindenblüte's suggestions were good, too. Plus see:
http://www.crnhq.org/windskill4.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html> Maybe it doesn't matter how I word things, if it can make a poster feel bad I shouldn't write it.
I do think wording matters, but unfortunately it doesn't guarantee that others won't feel bad.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on November 6, 2006, at 17:38:06
In reply to OK, so what are you going to do about it? » Deneb, posted by Racer on October 31, 2006, at 13:11:56
I've been seeing my pdoc every week. I'm working to stop binging and purging, but it's really hard. :-(
I just can't seem to convince myself that I don't need to lose weight. I really can't.
Today I saw my pdoc and she convinced me to eat normally. I then had lunch, only to feel too full and purge. In order to stop purging I have to restrict.
I think I everything will be OK once I'm at my goal weight.
I'm very conflicted right now. I want to get better, but I also want to lose weight. My pdoc basically tells me I can't do both at the same time.
I hate this, I just want to lose some weight.
I'm going to try to eat normally, but most days I know I won't be able to do that. The best plan I can come up with now is to eat a 200 kcal breakfast, nothing for lunch, a 100 kcal snack and a 500 kcal dinner. It's better than my 300 kcal/day plan. I'd still be undereating so I wouldn't feel the need to purge. At 800 kcal/day I wouldn't damage my body as much as at 300 kcal/day.
I think I will stop once I'm at my goal weight.
Deneb*
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 6, 2006, at 21:40:56
In reply to Re: OK, so what are you going to do about it?, posted by Deneb on November 6, 2006, at 17:38:06
((((Deneb))))
It sounds like you're really hurting right now. Is there a way that you can see a nutritionist? Maybe you can talk to someone about what is a healthy diet for a person like you, and figure out a way to get all the important nutrients your body needs.
The bad news about restricting calories like that is that your body cannot keep it up forever. When you start to eat normally again, you may put on weight, even though your calorie intake is similar to what you were eating before you started this binge-purge-restricting eating pattern.
It's bad for your body to shift to "starvation mode". I really urge you to keep up a sensible plan where you eat nourishing food and add more activity to your diet. Food affects your mood a lot, and if you're not eating right, you may be sending yourself into a depression that you can choose to avoid (I know it's hard).
Please take care of yourself. I know you're a student, and that should be your focus. It's awfully hard to think and stay alert when you're not giving your brain many calories.
((((Deneb))))maybe you can see pdoc twice a week? or ask her for a referral- just tell her you're having trouble eating sensibly and it's really making you suffer.
(((more hugs)))
-Li
Posted by Deneb on November 7, 2006, at 22:39:52
In reply to Re: OK, so what are you going to do about it? » Deneb, posted by Lindenblüte on November 6, 2006, at 21:40:56
Things have been going out of control. I purge whenever I've eaten too many calories. I'm binging a lot and trying to restrict to no avail. I'm binging on junk food, probably because I don't eat all day and am starved when I get home.
I've decided to listen to my pdoc and eat normally. I'm going to try not counting calories. I'm going to eat all the veggies, fruit and lean protein I want to. I'm going to eat whenever I'm hungry and not skip meals. Hopefully by filling myself up with healthy foods I will not want to binge on junk food. I'm going to forget about losing weight. I'm not going to weigh myself. I'm going to use my treadmill everyday and practice walking and jogging until I can jog the whole 30 mins.
Instead of using my little notebook to record calories, I'm going to use it to record exercise and time spent studying.
I'm going to get my life together! Maybe I'll even end up losing a few pounds in a year eating healthy and exercising.
Wish me luck, I'm going to need it.
Deneb*
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 23:05:05
In reply to I've decided not to count calories, posted by Deneb on November 7, 2006, at 22:39:52
Deneb,
I'm so proud of you. You're making the rght choice, and i hope you'll be able to realize that you're doing it for YOU, not for you pdoc, or to satisfy anyone else either.Just remember- don't be too hard on yourself if you have a bad day here and there. You don't have to become an A+ exerciser fitness guru overnight. I think a B+ is great too. Try not to overcriticize yourself if you slip up. The important thing is to know that there are people to help you get things straightened out.
-Li
ps I wrote this AFTER seroquelled chat ended. about to pass out.
Posted by Deneb on November 9, 2006, at 20:37:15
In reply to Re: I've decided not to count calories, posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 23:05:05
I can't do it. I have to count calories.
I overate and I purged again. I can't say I regret the purging.
I must stop overeating or I will continue to purge.
I've purged 3 times this week. :-(
Tomorrow is another day. I'll do better tomorrow.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 9, 2006, at 21:38:02
In reply to Re: I've decided not to count calories, posted by Deneb on November 9, 2006, at 20:37:15
I feel horrible about overeating and purging. I wish someone could hug me in real life, someone who understood and cared about me, someone who wouldn't judge me.
Deneb*, who wants to be babied today.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 9, 2006, at 23:28:07
In reply to Re: I've decided not to count calories, posted by Deneb on November 9, 2006, at 21:38:02
It's okay to want to be taken care of. Do you have anyone that you can talk about that with? What would your Pdoc say if you told her than some days you just want to be nurtured and taken care of?
It's a very natural thing, a very normal thing to want that kind of comfort. Can you find a pillow to hug, or maybe meow-meow can snuggle with you? Maybe you can take a warm bath and just forget about today.
Tomorrow IS another day.
wish I could be there to give you a nice smooshy hug :(
your friend,
-Li
Posted by SatinDoll on November 23, 2006, at 7:52:13
In reply to Re: OK, so what are you going to do about it?, posted by Deneb on November 6, 2006, at 17:38:06
Deneb,
I usually don't come to this board, but the admin. board made me curious about what is going on.
Deneb, if you have a eating disorder, you can't just just stop by willing to do it. You need treatment with a specialist in ED pronto. You are really hurting your body in a lot of ways and I feel you need help. I care about you, Deneb, you know that, so I hope you seek help.Your P-doc it not enough, you need more, maybe in treatment. I would not take this problem lightly, it is serious. Please seek more help
((((((Deneb))))))
This is the end of the thread.
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