![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 56. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 9:41:38
Things are getting "strange" with me and my T. (I've posted a bit before) Within the past month there have been definate changes in the way we interact. He tells me all this stuff about how he wants to keep me forever (not necessarily sexually), he gave me flowers, invited me to his condo, he says that touching me makes him forget his troubles, and that he likes that I can help him with his problems, and sometimes office stuff (though I never have anything to do with other patients files at all). I like to help, and I'm glad to give something back. I'm a useless reject in the rest of my life, and usually only upset and hurt others who come near me.
I know he cares, and I know he is not trying to hurt me at all. Not at all. I'm just really scared that if I disappoint him in any way that he can terminate me. And the way things are, I'd be losing more than a T, and more than a friend. Plus, I do like the attention in a way, I'm so lonely and scared. Is he just like every other man I've known? Do all men end up only wanting sex? (is it okay for me to say that word here?) It is hard to have this secret alone, with no one to talk to in person. I don't have anyone else in my life at all. I do care deeply for him. I don't mind being his companion (I like when he makes me feel worthy of being alive) but I couldn't bare to feel like his whore. I know he would not think of me that way, but I would feel it within myself. All I know is that I can't lose him.
My question is: If I mention this to my doctor, to get advice or something, does she have to try to report my T or whatever? Is how we are actually bad when we haven't kissed or slept together yet? (But I worry that that could be coming.) Sometimes I'm relieved it could be coming though. I'm so so confused! If I don't volunteer his name, is there any way at all that she can find that stuff out behind my back? I don't want him in trouble, just to not have this secret alone. How discreet is the med.doctor/patient relationship this way?
Any advice about how to disclose this discreetly would be helpful. I'm going out of my mind with anxiety.
Thanks, El
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 10:24:47
In reply to can professionals keep this a secret?, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 9:41:38
Hi Elaine,
I don’t know the answer to your question about whether you doctor has to report him.
But I do know that he is taking advantage of your vulnerability.
His behaviour is completely inappropriate. It is not therapy. If the two of you want to have an actual friendship or relationship then he MUST stop meeting you for therapy and you must find a new therapist.
I am probably more open-minded than many people about boundaries. I think it’s possible for a therapist to give a client flowers and even in certain circumstances to meet outside the office. In certain circumstances it could be therapeutic.
However, it is NEVER appropriate for a therapist to tell a client that touching her makes him forget his troubles, and that he likes that she can help him with his problems.
A therapist who has sex with a client is a sexual predator. If that’s what he’s aiming for, then he is dangerous. Sexual predators can be very nice and sweet and charming, but once they have you where they want you they can also intimidate and bully you. It is extremely difficult to escape from an abusive relationship because he makes you feel good about yourself and very very bad about yourself at the same time.
I’m saying all this because it sounds to me as if you are quite ambivalent about the existing relationship and also about where it might lead. It sounds to me (forgive me if I’m wrong) as if you want it to happen at the same time as hoping it won’t happen. And that’s totally normal in your circumstances.
I don’t know what advice your GP might give you. My advice would be to terminate tomorrow. I think you are in genuine danger, and you need to find a new therapist. I hope I’m not alarming you too much, but I recognise all the danger signs.
I suspect you don’t want to terminate tomorrow. Perhaps you love him, or at least are very fond of him. Perhaps you’re attracted to him or at least physically interested in him. Perhaps he seems like the only source of support in your life.
And yet, it sounds as if you also know that what he’s doing is wrong. And maybe you think that this time it will be OK; that the problems other people have with boundary crossings will not apply to you. Maybe you think you can handle it.
It has to be your own decision. I’m not going to tell you what to do. I don’t know if I could walk away from my therapist if he behaved towards me the ways yours does. I adore my therapist. I’d love the attention and the mutuality of boundary crossings. I’m very attracted to my therapist and if I thought he wanted to have sex with me I’d be very tempted. So I’ll never criticise you if you don’t leave him, because I don’t know whether I could follow this advice if I were in your situation.
I sort of hope your GP encourages you to report him, even though I’m sure it’s not what you want. I think it would be helpful for you to have the support of a doctor or another therapist to get you through this.
This probably isn’t the answer you wanted to hear. I’m sorry if it hurts or upsets you. And if you decide to stay with him I won’t judge you.
I hope everything works out well for you.
Tamar
Posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 11:16:10
In reply to can professionals keep this a secret?, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 9:41:38
first of all....wow.
you are going through something very distressing. i'm very very glad you've decided to talk about it here. thank you.>>I know he cares, and I know he is not trying to hurt me at all. Not at all. I'm just really scared that if I disappoint him in any way that he can terminate me.
and that is why we call this sexual harrassment. any person in authority who uses anytype of sexual inuendo or personal closeness in a working relationship is crossing a line (even if it is accepted) because of the position of that person.
sweetie, of course you like the attention. who wouldn't. it feels good for people to care about us. but unfortunately it doesn't sound like this guy Does care about you in a good way. if he did. he would keep better boundries. or in this case...some boundries as it sounds as if you are both the patient and the therapist at times.
>>>Is how we are actually bad when we haven't kissed or slept together yet?
...and here's the red flag... 1)yes it is bad. this kind of situation can be damaging to any person 2)"yet"...i'm' concerned with what you have said that quite frankly you may feel pressured to let him touch you even if you are really wanting it. i don't mean to sound crass or uncaring but i'm scared for you and when i read that a big flashing sign of sexual assault flashed before my eyes. unfortunately if this guy is the way i think he is, it won't stop. it will only get worse. it needs to be stopped, the question here is how is the best way.
hopefully others will be more helpful with the how.
i can only suggest two ways. one, that you DO tell your doctor. now from what i understand if you were to report any type of abuse to a psychologist or doctor they are require by law to report it. and i think i would see what's going on with you abuse. now i'm not in your shoes, so i don't know exactly what's going on. but i am VERY concerned from what you have said. maybe if you tell your doc the two of you can figure out the best way to deal with this 'T' (and i use the term loosely).
the other suggestion is to tell him how you are feeling...all of it. but quite frankly i think he'd just be worried about covering his own butt, so i don't know what his reaction would be. and i don't know that that is the best answer here.
Either way (((Elaine))) you need to stop seeing this T immediately.i think that this person will continue to act the way he is if you don't stop. and i actually think that unless he is repremanded he will infact do this again to someone else (if he isn't already).
this is a very serious situation and shouldn't be taken lightly. please. for your sake i strongly suggest telling your pdoc.
hopefully others here will give you some better insight.
but know i care and please let us know how you are feeling about all this.(((((((hugs))))))))
b2c.
Posted by pseudoname on June 16, 2006, at 13:49:23
In reply to can professionals keep this a secret?, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 9:41:38
It sure sounds like you want "some advice or something" from a real person who is responsible, clearly on your side, and connected to you. My suggestion is that you heed that desire immediately.
Your physician could be a place to start. It sounds like your instinct is to trust her? Physicians, however, are not necessarily highly trained in what to do in these situations. Another — additional — option would be to get a consult from another experienced, preferably female, therapist. You could see one in another town, if you're really concerned about inadvertently revealing your current T's identity.
By getting help from outside your relationship with your current T, you may be helping HIM to avoid serious errors with disastrous consequences for HIM. Whatever bad things could theoretically happen to him at this stage, they are minor compared to what can happen to him if the two of you escalate the non-therapy relationship or cross the line into sexual contact, the consequences of which could end his career or even land him in jail.
It's better for him, no matter what the outcome, for you to see someone else immediately. While I think your concern for him is misplaced, it's understandable.
> Any advice about how to disclose this discreetly would be helpful.
Pay for the consult by yourself (i.e., don't disclose your insurance company information), at least at first. Make clear to her your concerns about identifying your current therapist, and ASK HER what she would or would not do on her own to identify him or turn him in. The focus of a new therapist will be YOUR well-being, not prosecuting the other guy.
Good luck and please post how it's going for you.
Posted by happyflower on June 16, 2006, at 13:54:49
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 11:16:10
Wow, okay I am a little jelous but at the same time I am worried about this. I think if you two want a personal relationship (which it sounds like you do if you are going to his house, etc., then you should stop doing therapy with him. How long have you been seeing him?
Now the other thing, and it can be diffenent maybe on where you live. But a few months ago my allergist saw me at a concert and met me afterwards and was flirting with me and he smacked my butt. Now I asked my therapist before I told him this if he is required to report this sort of thing and he said no, what i tell him remains safe, except in few instances.
Like I can tell him I robbed a bank and he can't turn me in, but if I tell him I am going to rob a bank, he can turn me in because it would be threatening safety of others. Now if I was in in middle of some kind of suicide behavior, he
can turn me in. If my kids were being harmed in anyway he can report me. And I think in certain legal cases like court, his notes can be given to the court. Now I don't know if doctors have the exact same rules as a physcologist because they are two different things.I do feel you should at least stop seeing him for therapy and seek out another for advice. I think they would be able to help you more than a medical doctor. I understand you attachment to him, the excitement, but since you don't have anyone else to talk about this too, please seek out another therapist.
I feel like Tamar, if my T wanted to have sex with me, I would have a hard time saying no. If he wanted to be friends outside of therapy I would in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't see him for therapy anymore though. Keep in touch, we are hear to listen, a lot of us have some simular feelings for our therapist.
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:05:41
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 10:24:47
Thank you so much for being concerned, though I do think I should point out again that he is really very kind and gentle. I don't think he's a predator. He said he's never done this before, and that this is better for me. Better therapy.
And I know he'd never force me physically, ever. It's just that if he asked, I don't think I could say no. (But that's just me and my dysfunctions) I can't get him in trouble, because he is only trying to be nice to me, when no one else is. The thing that actually upsets me the most is when I find myself worrying more about what to say to make him feel better, and telling him what I think about his stuff going on, than my own stuff. Though the way we interact has become "my stuff". I don't mind helping him, but it scares me when I feel like he isn't strong enough for me anymore. I worry that if I stopped that that he would grow tired of me. I wouldn't have a purpose for him anymore. But again, I could have it all wrong. He has done nothing to seem aggressive or mean.
I am ambivalent. I'm scared of most people, most men. But I don't want to be all alone. I owe him everything for helping me this far, and for being able to stand me, cause I'm ugly and stupid. Maybe he is just trying to give me confidence. Maybe he just pitys me. I'm not sure.
I am a bit scared though after reading your post. Would I be able to tell if he was really this bad person underneath? If he is then he is a really good actor. But I'd be able to tell right?
Thanks Tamar.
El
Posted by llrrrpp on June 16, 2006, at 15:27:51
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » Tamar, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:05:41
Dear Elaine,
He may not be a bad person, but he's doing a bad job at being a therapist. His job is to help you. He may have even deluded himself into thinking that starting a more personal relationship is in your therapeutic interests. The fact that you have warning bells going off should tell you something. The fact that you are more concerned with helping HIM than helping ELAINE is also a big warning sign.Even given zero misconduct on his part, it's in your best interests as a client and a human being (especially a fragile human being) to terminate immediately and find a new T who will help give you perspective on this stuff. You aren't getting good perspecive right now. Your own thinking is distorted. And your T (who's supposed to be helping you figure out your true reflection in the funny house mirrors) is just showing you another distorted mirror.
This is not about him. He'll be fine. He's an adult. He's clearly flawed, but so are we all.
This is about you, and doing what you need to get better, and what you need to do to sort through a complicated relationship before it becomes a lot more complicated and a lot more damaging.
Best wishes Elaine,
I admire your openness, and I'm glad that you're able to communicate your conflicts to us.
-ll
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 15:33:48
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » Tamar, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:05:41
> Thank you so much for being concerned, though I do think I should point out again that he is really very kind and gentle. I don't think he's a predator. He said he's never done this before, and that this is better for me. Better therapy.
I’m glad that in your experience he is kind and gentle. I’m sure that feels very good.
I wonder if he could back up his claim that this is better therapy for you with any research… I am not aware of any research that suggests that clients benefit from a close personal relationship with their therapist. Of course, I haven’t read everything, but if he’s using a model of practice that involves a close personal relationship with you, he should have some evidence for the usefulness of that approach with clients with your diagnosis/difficulties. And I doubt he can come up with such evidence.I was a bit worried when you said you do some office work for him. I have heard many stories of women doing their therapists’ office work – unpaid of course. It’s a surprisingly common part of the breaking of the boundaries. Is he paying you a decent wage for the work you do for him?
> And I know he'd never force me physically, ever. It's just that if he asked, I don't think I could say no. (But that's just me and my dysfunctions)
So although he wouldn’t use violence, he still has the power to coerce you. Do you think it would be better for you to say no? If so, how can you keep yourself safe with him? You need your own boundaries if his are melting away.
> I can't get him in trouble, because he is only trying to be nice to me, when no one else is. The thing that actually upsets me the most is when I find myself worrying more about what to say to make him feel better, and telling him what I think about his stuff going on, than my own stuff.
You see… that’s really not therapy. Therapy is when you talk to him about your stuff without worrying how he feels. He can’t help you with your stuff if you’re worrying about his stuff.
> Though the way we interact has become "my stuff". I don't mind helping him, but it scares me when I feel like he isn't strong enough for me anymore. I worry that if I stopped that that he would grow tired of me. I wouldn't have a purpose for him anymore. But again, I could have it all wrong. He has done nothing to seem aggressive or mean.
His purpose as a therapist should be to help you to live as happily and as contentedly as possible. Seeing you get healthier should be enough to make him feel proud to be a therapist. Most clients worry at some point that they will be too much for their therapist to cope with. That’s why therapists are supposed to keep their own stuff out of therapy. Perhaps he isn’t aggressive or mean, but his behaviour is highly unprofessional. I wouldn’t say this if I weren’t genuinely concerned for you.
> I am ambivalent. I'm scared of most people, most men. But I don't want to be all alone. I owe him everything for helping me this far, and for being able to stand me, cause I'm ugly and stupid.
I’m glad you feel he’s helping you with your feelings of low self worth. Please believe me when I tell you that if you begin to have a sexual relationship with him you will feel more ugly and stupid than you felt to begin with. And the fact is that you are NOT ugly or stupid. Well, I don’t know what you look like, but I don’t meet many ugly people, and I know for sure that you’re not stupid (I’m a teacher, so I can tell!).
> Maybe he is just trying to give me confidence. Maybe he just pitys me. I'm not sure.
I hope he is trying to give you confidence. But I’m worried that he may be using you (at least to some extent) for his own gratification.
> I am a bit scared though after reading your post. Would I be able to tell if he was really this bad person underneath? If he is then he is a really good actor. But I'd be able to tell right?
Honey, if we could tell someone’s character that easily, no woman would ever be raped, and no woman would ever get involved with a man who beat her. The problem is that the people who do monstrous things do not look like monsters and do not act like monsters most of the time. Most people who do really bad things are actually pretty decent most of the time. There’s a reason why women who have experienced abuse know the warning signs. Please trust us on this one. He is dangerous to you.
Sorry to have scared you. I just want you to be safe.
Please be careful.
Tamar
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:34:19
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 11:16:10
Okay I'm getting really scared reading this. I assumed people would tell me that I was reading into nothing. I am too afraid to "stop seeing him immediately". I just couldn't, though it is nice of you to be concerned. I'm not used to having others respond to my questions either. I don't often ask things of people because I'm afraid no one would listen, or believe me, or want to help, so this whole thing is a bit new for me.
The thing I worry about is that I don't think he would hurt anyone, and that if I complained, and he got in trouble, I think it would crush him. In some ways I feel he could be more fragile than me. I'm used to people treating me like crap, and expecting the worst from the world, so I am not shocked when bad things happen to me. But he is normal, and has a life, and I think if I was mean enough to get him in trouble that he would be devastated.
Thanks for caring. I'm glad to know I can tell you all what's happening. It's going to be hard to decide what to do.
El
Thanks for showing what ((()))) means. I never knew that it stood for hugs!
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 15:53:51
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » B2chica, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:34:19
> Okay I'm getting really scared reading this. I assumed people would tell me that I was reading into nothing.
Sorry we weren’t able to reassure you. It really does sound pretty dangerous.
> I am too afraid to "stop seeing him immediately".
I know. I can understand that. And maybe you really do need another professional perspective. Is there any way you can talk to another (preferably female) therapist once or twice? We can give loads of advice, but a second therapist can really help you make a decision.
> I just couldn't, though it is nice of you to be concerned. I'm not used to having others respond to my questions either. I don't often ask things of people because I'm afraid no one would listen, or believe me, or want to help, so this whole thing is a bit new for me.
Welcome to Psychobabble! The care that people show for each other here restores my faith in human nature. Please be assured that we do believe you, and part of the reason is that some of us have had similar experiences.
> The thing I worry about is that I don't think he would hurt anyone, and that if I complained, and he got in trouble, I think it would crush him. In some ways I feel he could be more fragile than me. I'm used to people treating me like crap, and expecting the worst from the world, so I am not shocked when bad things happen to me.
Bad things should not happen to you. You don’t deserve bad things. You are a good person and you deserve health and happiness. (You’re wondering how I know you’re a good person, eh? It’s simple. I’ve seen one or two of your previous posts and it’s entirely clear to me that you have a very good heart. I’m always right about these things.)
> But he is normal, and has a life, and I think if I was mean enough to get him in trouble that he would be devastated.
I’m sure he would be devastated. But he is as aware of the professional guidelines as we are. He must know he is doing things that are not appropriate. He might not want to acknowledge it, but he must take responsibility for his behaviour in his professional field.
> Thanks for caring. I'm glad to know I can tell you all what's happening. It's going to be hard to decide what to do.
I know. He makes you feel good. How could you possibly leave him? And yet… he also makes you very anxious. At the moment perhaps it seems worth putting up with the anxiety because you enjoy the good feelings so much. Of course you’re not going to terminate tomorrow. He’s very important to you.
I really feel for you. You’re in an impossible situation. I honestly think the suggestion of seeing another therapist and talking it through would be a good idea. You would get an opportunity to disclose your anxieties and you’d also hear a qualified and authoritative opinion of your therapist’s behaviour. Please please confide in someone professional that you can trust.
(((((Elaine)))))
Your safety matters.
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 16:16:52
In reply to Ask them » ElaineM, posted by pseudoname on June 16, 2006, at 13:49:23
Pseudo, I do trust my physician very much. I'm just confused about what her obligations are because I know she has alot of feminist views. I would just be worried that she would be unable to overlook anything she thought might be a threat to the ethical standards of the helping professions. It has me extra worried that I would be making a mountain out of a mole hill. Especially when I don't really know for sure what his motivations and intentions are. I'm just concerned about my misinterpretations, if that's what they are, harming him.
I'm supposed to see her next week. Every day I go back and forth with my decision. Last check-up I chickened out.
El
Posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 16:44:26
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » B2chica, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:34:19
honey i don't mean to scare you at all. and to be honest...maybe i'm mis reading it. but i haven't had good experiences in life and i've always been withdrawn and its hard for me to stick up for myself, and i've been hurt many times because of it. i guess i'm just a little over protective now and i HATE for anyone to be in a compromising situation, or in a place where they could be physically, sexually or emotionally abused.
i understand your not wanting to hurt anyone. especially this man who has given you bits of self-esteem and whom you've built a relationship with. one that's supposed to be of trust.
but please remember, he is an adult, his is supposed to be a professional in a very sensitive field. it's not like he's never been taught what boundries are (especially in his position) but he's chosen to cross those. you on the other hand are not as familiar with the boundries and should be able to look to him for first hand example of being able to create and enforce these boundries.
if nothing else i think he is not a good therapist for exactly this reason.
and us that have dealt with cr@p all our lives would much rather take on more cr@p than watch it be put upon others, but you have to remember he's supposed to be helping you deal with that, not make it worse.i do think that no matter what you do you should discuss it with some professional. EVEN if it is some late night nurse 800 number or some local public health center or something like that. you could make an anonymous call and ask for their advice. but better yet, if you do trust your GP i think you should tell her.
and i think Tamar mentioned (and is right) that they may not report it. if they suspect abuse (like physical or sexual) then they will but i guess technically you can make it clear that nothing has happened but here are your concerns...overall, no matter what you decision...2 things
1)you are worth SO much and deserve good health care. you are not currently getting it, no matter your attachment to this guy, he may have helped you in the past but he is not currently doing so. so i really think you should find someone else.
2) THANK YOU for trusting us here with your problem. personally i think it was a big step and an important one at that. not just for this problem. but to show your strength, that infact your instincts are right and something here is not healthy for you. you reached out and asked for help. you did a Wonderful job for doing that.please take everyones comments into consideration along with your own thoughts, instincts and other insights. you know this T better than us.
but please. you are SO worth a deserving therapist. one that can truly help you.please take care of yourself Elaine.
extra ((((((((((((((Elaine)))))))))))))))))b2c.
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 16:59:11
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret?, posted by happyflower on June 16, 2006, at 13:54:49
Happyflower, I have read some of your posts before and I can understand how you might want something to happen with your T. (And Tamar) I totally get it. I know you can see this from both perspectives. I've been seeing my T for close to two years. Before, when things were still normal, I used to wish that something would happen. I always want somebody to do anything, so I can know that I'm alive and can pretend I'm not repulsive. Then things started to change. Still, on the days that nothing happens, and he doesn't ask to hold me or touch me, or say romantic things, I feel really really bad. And all I think about is what I did differently and how I can act better for next session. I wonder if I wore something that made me look uglier. I worry that the day had come when he finally realized what a horrible patient I am, and can't take me anymore. Then when he offers me invitations or presents I feel 10% good and thankful, but 90% slutty.
I even feel guilty asking for help because part of me does still enjoy it, because he is important and special and a better person than me. Whenever I'm getting upset about what could come next, I just say to myself that I should be honored that he could pick me. He could do so much better than me. I'm just afraid that if anything more happened I wouldn't be able to look at him anymore. I don't mind the rest, I'm just afraid of sleeping with him. (Though maybe that won't come up) If I knew that he'd be okay if I didn't I could handle the rest. I'm sure he only wants to encourage me and be kind. It doesn't make sense to me any other way.
I do take what everyone has said very seriously. I trust what you all say, especially cause some of you have gone through similar things /feelings. I can't help being afraid and confused. I don't know why things changed after being together so long.
I'll let you all know if I follow through, and you can tell me if I was stupid or not. Thanks for answering.
El
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 16, 2006, at 17:27:31
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » happyflower, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 16:59:11
I'm sure that your medical doc has no right to report this behavior. Unless you've signed a consent form, she can't tell anyone anything about you - unless it's regarding suicide/homicide.
I WOULD definately talk to her, since it sounds like she is someone you trust. You've already heard from people here that his behavior is flat out absolutely unethical, and dangerous to you.
Please take care of yourself. He is unhealthy psychologically. He is manipulately a client into something which could cause him to lose his license permanently. How desparate/sick does a person have to be to jeopardize their livelyhood for the possibilty of sex (yup, that's what he is after IMO)? It's sad for him, and dangerous for you. Please take care.
I know all of this must be difficult to hear, but read this board and the archives and you'll learn more about what a good therapist is like. You'll also meet posters who lives were turned into shambles by morally bankrupt T's.
Em
Posted by fairywings on June 16, 2006, at 17:38:56
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » B2chica, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 15:34:19
> Okay I'm getting really scared reading this. I assumed people would tell me that I was reading into nothing.
Hi Elaine,
I'm sorry you're going through this and feeling so vulnerable and ambivalent. I understand not feeling you can leave him, it sounds like you've become very dependent on him - understandable since he pays you so much attention and you feel so alone otherwise.
My guess is, since you asked if it's okay, at some level you feel it's not. Could you consider weaning yourself off of him by seeing another therapist? You don't have to confide this to another T, but maybe you can forge enough of a bond with another T while letting your feelings for your current T subside?
When I was a teenager, my 1st therapist encouraged a very unhealthy dependency on him. I feel like I lost 5 years of my life. I never reported him, and never would. I won't even tell my T what happened, but I often wonder what would've happened to me if I hadn't gotten away. He seemed very nice, but in retrospect he didn't have my best interest at heart.
Can you look forward, and think of the things that could possibly happen and how you'd feel, or how you'd deal with them? Have you thought about how you'd feel if he terminated your therapy abruptly, or just stopped seeing you? I'm not saying he will, but does it worry you? Are you preparing yourself, just in case?
You're probably not reading nothing into all of this, esp. since you've expressed concerns about whether it's okay. I wondered...is he in solo practice, and are you still paying him, or has he waived his fee?
>>I am too afraid to "stop seeing him immediately". ... I'm not used to having others respond to my questions either. I don't often ask things of people because I'm afraid no one would listen, or believe me, or want to helpMaybe that's one of the things that makes you especially appealing to him?
BTW, you're definitely not stupid, and I'm sure you're not ugly. You sound like a wonderful, sensitive, caring person who could be very easily hurt. I hope that doesn't happen. Good luck.....
fw
Posted by happyflower on June 16, 2006, at 18:02:51
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » happyflower, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 16:59:11
Still, on the days that nothing happens, and he doesn't ask to hold me or touch me, or say romantic things, I feel really really bad. And all I think about is what I did differently and how I can act better for next session. I wonder if I wore something that made me look uglier. I worry that the day had come when he finally realized what a horrible patient I am, and can't take me anymore. Then when he offers me invitations or presents I feel 10% good and thankful, but 90% slutty.
Okay for me this worries me. First of all you can never be a horriable patient. If you are thinking that your actions of being a patient is the reason he is "hot, cold" with his actions, well this worries me. You should just be you no matter what, and doing therapy shouldn't be about if he or does or does not respond to you like this. If he was truely helping you as a therapist, he would allow you to become self confident about yourself in a way that doesn't have anything to do with him touching you.
>
> I even feel guilty asking for help because part of me does still enjoy it, because he is important and special and a better person than me.You shouldn't feel guilty for needing help, you are PAYING for it. This is his job, to help you become the best you can be.
Whenever I'm getting upset about what could come next, I just say to myself that I should be honored that he could pick me. He could do so much better than me.
This really worries me that it seems like you feel that you are so much inferior to him. I am also worried about is that do you think he has truely picked you ? Do you think he might be doing this with other clients too?
I am really worried about you. Your confidence is very low and it seems like your self worth is so tied into how he responds to you (in unethical ways).
I have been with my T for more than 1 1/2 years, yes there is mutual attraction, but he has never done the things you have talked about. Plus I don't believe I am inferier to him in any way. If you were confident, and living your life in a big way,being mentally healthy, I wouldn't worry so much about you being with your therapist. But it seems to me he is taking advantage of you in a big way. He might seem very charming, and gentle, but you know what, my mothered seemed the same way and she was a monster. I kinda of wonder if he has a personality disorder. I really urge you to talk to another therpist about this.
I also think your gut instinct is also telling you something is wrong, because you are writing her about it and you want to talk to your doctor about it.
My posts about my T and how I feel have been on this board for over a year now. But if he ever did the things your T has during therapy, I would think very ill of him and not respect him at all. I have a different view AFTER therapy. Please take care of yourself. I know it is hard to hear this stuff, but really everyone is concerned about you and don't want to see you get hurt even more.
>
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 18:48:27
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » happyflower, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 16:59:11
> Then when he offers me invitations or presents I feel 10% good and thankful, but 90% slutty.
There’s the problem. Right there.
Only you can know why you feel slutty. It’s your business and if you choose to share it here that’s up to you.
Nevertheless, I would bet my house that the reason you feel slutty is that same reason that he is pushing the boundaries. And if you have some kind of abuse in your history and he knows about it, then I want to go over there and slap his head. Because abusers always pick on vulnerable people. They know they can get away with it.
Don’t let him revictimise and retraumatise you. You deserve better.
(((((Elaine)))))
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 19:17:32
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by fairywings on June 16, 2006, at 17:38:56
Fairywings, He is in private practice and I don't pay personally. He knows I don't have alot of money. That's part of the reason I feel so ungrateful. When things were normal, all that time, he was doing this for very little. That was really generous of him. He works mainly by himself, with two young T's underneath him. They are just rarely around from what I hear. At least not when I'm there.
He says he will never end it with me. I can't picture him doing it, I just worry that it is only because I behave well and say nice things, and help him out. I sort of think he could maybe even love me. I don't think I could handle it if he terminated me. I'm tired of losing T's. I can't do it again.
He does know of my past abuse by my father, and a smaller incident a few years ago. That's why I think he wants to make sure he's extra caring. That's why I want to make sure I don't mistake caring for something else. I can't believe he would use his knowledge of my past to hurt me. But he does know that I have no one else, and am lonely. It's embarassing to say but, I'm desperate, and he knows that. I wish I could just know for sure what will happen.
El
Posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 19:50:47
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 18:48:27
Tamar: Sorry, I responded to the "knowing my history" stuff in a post above. The main reason I feel slutty is because he is much, much older than me. And his children are my age. I think the gap is what makes me feel a bit weird. But he says I'm old on the inside. And I think that was nice to say. I thought it was a compliment. Was it not?
And I say slutty because I see myself as a tease. I both hate and like stuff that goes on in sessions. If I was normal, it wouldn't be both at once. And I feel trashy cause I do let him touch me when I don't really want it. (Sometimes I flinch when he gets up from his chair, and I feel so embarassed and guilty for it, and I hope he didn't notice it) Even stupid things are making me too nervous, like when a hug lasts too long. Once I flinched when he went to only touch my face. But this is all part of the closeness I was wanting so much in the beginning. I don't understand why I'm getting cold feet now. I wonder if things feel strange cause I haven't had someone touch me nicely in a long time, so I can't even recognize regular male/female contact.
I'm too humiliated and afraid to say everything that's been said, or done between us, but I honestly haven't had sex with him, or kissed him yet. I haven't. I always think I'm a slut anyways. If I smile at someone who holds the elevator door for me then I think I was slutty.
It's hard for me to post here. I've been testing out this board, and this topic before, and it has taken me a long time to lose enough of my fear about my T reading this, to post everything I have. I'm still paranoid that he'll read this.
I do want to say that I'm not discounting everything you guys say. I do hear it all. It is just hard stuff to hear. Harder still to fully believe. And hardest to act on. I'm sorry though if I frustrate everyone.
El
Posted by orchid on June 16, 2006, at 20:45:39
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » Tamar, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 19:50:47
> Tamar: Sorry, I responded to the "knowing my history" stuff in a post above. The main reason I feel slutty is because he is much, much older than me. And his children are my age. I think the gap is what makes me feel a bit weird. But he says I'm old on the inside. And I think that was nice to say. I thought it was a compliment. Was it not?
>
> And I say slutty because I see myself as a tease. I both hate and like stuff that goes on in sessions. If I was normal, it wouldn't be both at once. And I feel trashy cause I do let him touch me when I don't really want it. (Sometimes I flinch when he gets up from his chair, and I feel so embarassed and guilty for it, and I hope he didn't notice it) Even stupid things are making me too nervous, like when a hug lasts too long. Once I flinched when he went to only touch my face. But this is all part of the closeness I was wanting so much in the beginning. I don't understand why I'm getting cold feet now. I wonder if things feel strange cause I haven't had someone touch me nicely in a long time, so I can't even recognize regular male/female contact.
>
> I'm too humiliated and afraid to say everything that's been said, or done between us, but I honestly haven't had sex with him, or kissed him yet. I haven't. I always think I'm a slut anyways. If I smile at someone who holds the elevator door for me then I think I was slutty.
>
> It's hard for me to post here. I've been testing out this board, and this topic before, and it has taken me a long time to lose enough of my fear about my T reading this, to post everything I have. I'm still paranoid that he'll read this.
>
> I do want to say that I'm not discounting everything you guys say. I do hear it all. It is just hard stuff to hear. Harder still to fully believe. And hardest to act on. I'm sorry though if I frustrate everyone.
>
> ElI have to agree with others here. He isn't good. Please take care of yourself by seeking someone else.
It would have been so admirable if he had been open to you about his attraction perhaps, and then decided to let you see someone else, or continued to work with you on improving you, but I think he is kind of manipulative, and is playing with your emotions. So it is better to avoid it.
Posted by fairywings on June 16, 2006, at 21:22:40
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » fairywings, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 19:17:32
Hi Elaine,
I think a lot of people worry about T's reading here. I'd guess statistically it's unlikely, but I understand the worry. I think people are very concerned about you and the situation, not frustrated.
Is your T's practice busy? How frequently do you see him? How long have you seen him? Are you making strides since you've been seeing him? Are you seeing him for your appts. when no one else is around? Does he ever bring up that you haven't been able to pay his normal fee?
It's concerning that you seem to question your self worth based on how he is with you each week. I know it must feel good to be held and shown all the attention when you feel so alone, but is it possible that by asking to hold you/touch you one week, and not doing it the next it's making you feel insecure and vulnerable? Do you have some sense of satisfaction when he wants you, and a sense that something's horribly wrong with you when he doesn't?
I hope I haven't been too aggressive - I don't mean to. I"m just hoping you'll make decisions that will benefit you and not hurt you.
fw
Posted by Fall Girl on June 17, 2006, at 9:10:20
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 10:24:47
I have to add my agreement to Tamar's posting about your relationship with your therapist. I am totally concerned for your emotional safety and growth. Please let us know how things are going. FG
Posted by ElaineM on June 17, 2006, at 18:13:39
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » ElaineM, posted by fairywings on June 16, 2006, at 21:22:40
FW: My T's practice doesn't seem too busy. I've only seen others a few times. Lately, since some of my times changed, I never see anyone. Not even the two young T's under him. I've seen him for a long time. It's getting close to two years. I started out once a week, and now I go anywhere from twice to four times a week. But those are just sessions. I see him outside of sessions too.
I think it has helped me seeing him. I probably wouldn't be around now if I had gone through all this time alone. I'm not a strong person. I'm not any closer to losing any of my problems but I've maintained, which to me, is always a miracle. Better than bottoming out.
You're not too aggressive. No one responding here is. I just scare easily. I worry that the time is coming when one of the two possibilities will occur. I don't want to have to deal with either outcome.
Thanks, El
Posted by annierose on June 17, 2006, at 22:08:02
In reply to Re: can professionals keep this a secret? » fairywings, posted by ElaineM on June 17, 2006, at 18:13:39
I haven't read all the replies just Tamar's and I agree with her.
He isn't your T anymore. He isn't helping you. I know it feels like he is, but he has LEAPED over any boundaries that did exist and now he is going to hurt you.
Please please please begin to see someone else. I don't know the laws where you live, but I believe if you don't use real names, he/she will protect your secret for you. Let this T know that you don't want to hurt this T, that you do love him, but you know in your heart that he isn't acting like a T anymore. That you just want to hear another professional opionion.
If this T really did care about you, he would act professional at all times. Boudaries are there for a reason, to protect you and protect him.
Posted by Karolina on June 18, 2006, at 2:27:55
In reply to can professionals keep this a secret?, posted by ElaineM on June 16, 2006, at 9:41:38
I agree with what the others have said, and I’m worried about your situation. Seeing a female T and letting her know about what’s been going on would be a good idea. I know you are in a difficult situation. And I know it feels awesome to be cared about and get all that kind of attention from him, but it sounds like it’s gone too far. If you didn’t think anything was wrong, I don’t think you would be posting about it or have an interest in telling another professional about it.
But you know what, it’s a *good* thing that you are aware that his behavior isn’t right and that you want to talk to somebody about it.
I’m so glad you’ve spoken up about this issue and please know we are here for you. Good luck with everything,
-Karolina-
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