![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 9:30:41
I've never been into cutting myself before (although I'm a cuticle-attacker, which I think is related). But a few weeks ago, I burned myself accidentally on the radiator and it gave me this weird sense of pride/pleasure (the burn on my arm looked like a heart), and then I started fantasizing about getting a tattoo, which I've never done before.Last week, in the midst of a very difficult week with my therapist, I cut myself for the first time. I told her about it and she said she'd appreciate it if in the future I tell her about it when I'm angry at her rather than take it out on myself.
But this Monday, I carved her initials into my arm. I couldn't bring myself to tell her about it yesterday when I saw her so I emailed her about it. I feel like I'm being manipulative (which I told her in the email) but I'm also just scared because I'm wanting to do this all the time now, and I know this can be addictive. I don't really understand it. I'm sorry if this is a hard post for folks to read -- I just thought maybe you guys could help me understand what's going on, and realize why I need to stop doing this. Because it's not entirely clear to me what the harm is.
I quit doing a lot of self-destructive/addictive things recently (drugs and smoking) so this feels pretty innocuous in comparison), and it's kind of taking the place of those things for me.
I'm also worried that my T is mad at me now and it's kind of embarrassing (especially since it was her initials).
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 25, 2004, at 10:10:27
In reply to SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 9:30:41
i carved a guys name in my leg over 15 years ago when i was a teen,,,
he is not the man i am married to...
i erased it with more scares..
..
cutting is not the way to go..please read up on it on the net..
dont destroy your beautiful body..
j
Posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 10:17:05
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » crushedout, posted by justyourlaugh on February 25, 2004, at 10:10:27
i've been trying to read about it on the net, but i haven't found that much. can you recommend any links? anyone?is this really going to scar? yikes. i really didn't think so.
> i carved a guys name in my leg over 15 years ago when i was a teen,,,
> he is not the man i am married to...
> i erased it with more scares..
> ..
> cutting is not the way to go..please read up on it on the net..
> dont destroy your beautiful body..
> j
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 25, 2004, at 12:29:54
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » justyourlaugh, posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 10:17:05
i am so terrible at "linking"
i hope someone else could post a few...
its never to late to learn a few good coping skills that will not be permenant.
dont believe everything you read on the sites, there are many reasons why people do things..
dont feel you need to be "lumped" into a group ideas made up to fit others...
sorry i couldnt be more helpful
but ask away
and i will try my best
j
Posted by tabitha on February 25, 2004, at 14:31:56
In reply to SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 9:30:41
Crushed, I'm so sorry for the pain you're in. You don't need to carry those marks for life though.. please find other ways of expressing and coping. My best method is probably journaling. It doesn't exactly make me feel better but it's a way to get out all the feelings and frustration when there's nobody to listen. Other people swear by screaming someplace nobody can hear (hurts my vocal cords too much).
I have a few little scars from things I did as a 20-something, and as a halfway stable 40-something I'm just so glad I didn't damage myself worse. My cuticles are another matter! I'm not sure I'll ever be able to give up tearing them.
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:56:22
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » crushedout, posted by tabitha on February 25, 2004, at 14:31:56
Hi,I get the feeling we have alot in common.
I did not cut until 3 yrs ago because a T. said she would dump me if I cut. I had never cut. I cut. She dumped. Now I cannot stop.
Perhaps if you stop now you won't have scars. The scars are very hard to hide from my husband. They are also hard to hide from the Doctor. I wish there was something else I could say to help you stop. terrics ps I can never wear a bikini.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 23:38:42
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » justyourlaugh, posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 10:17:05
Hey,
I have sat down to do a psych. paper that I have put off until the very last minute. I was doing some research and came across a website for self-injury. I remembered that you had asked for some sites on it.http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html
This one has a self assessment questionnaire. Hope it helps you out.
Elle
Posted by cubic_me on February 26, 2004, at 7:33:01
In reply to SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on February 25, 2004, at 9:30:41
Hi, I SI too, and it was pretty scary I when I did it for the first time. I tend to go through phases of cutting/not cutting/carving words/other SI, but sometimes its better than others.
Your T is right that you should talk to her when you get angry with her, rather than take it out on yourself - I have difficulty with that too.
I've done quite a bit of surfing on SI sites, and the best ones I've found so far are: http://www.selfharm.net/ and
http://www.psyke.org/Psyke has got a messageboard that I have found very helpful in reassuring me that I am not alone, and its got some really good coping tips and things you can do instead of SI. If you want to chat to me there, my name is Contadiction.
x
Posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 21:12:21
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » crushedout, posted by cubic_me on February 26, 2004, at 7:33:01
well, my t was really mad at me today for having carved her initials into my arm. what a stupid thing to have done. i mean, if someone told me they did that with my initials, i'd run away screaming. i would think they were pathetic. i feel pretty ashamed. maybe i shouldn't have told her. god, i've never seen her so mad. i guess she had reason to be, although she didn't even tell me exactly why she was mad. in a way, i guess it comforts me that she was mad. maybe that's even why i did it.
Posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 21:18:10
In reply to Re: SI (caution may trigger) » crushedout, posted by cubic_me on February 26, 2004, at 7:33:01
i wish i could write more. i'm really depressed.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 26, 2004, at 23:38:42
In reply to thanks for the links, guys, posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 21:18:10
I'm sorry your feeling depressed. I wish I had some better advice to offer you, but I'm depressed myself. Why do you think you started cutting all of the sudden? Do you have an idea of what triggered it? I know I cut because it's a way of punishing myself. I read on the webpage that I recommended to you that carving initials seems to be fairly common. What did your T have to say about this (if you don't mind my asking)? Take care of yourself okay. ((((Crushedout))))
Elle
Posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 23:52:27
In reply to ((((Crushedout))))) » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on February 26, 2004, at 23:38:42
Thanks, Elle. I'm not sure why I started, except that I've been in all this pain over my T, and a few weeks ago I accidentally burned myself on the radiator, and it left these marks in the shape of a heart on my arm. I got this weird sense of pride/pleasure from that, and then started fantasizing about getting a tattoo. It kind of took off from there. I even drew pictures on my arm before I tried actually cutting myself. Maybe I should go back to drawing pictures.
My T was angry and pressing me for reasons. She wanted to know what I was feeling, what I was getting out of it. I was having a lot of trouble coming up with answers, and usually she doesn't push me very hard, but today she was like, "Try harder." It was a bit rough, but like I said, I think I sort of liked it. Maybe in a sort of masochistic way.
She said it made her realize that before we get into exploring my fantasies about her, we have to make sure I have enough coping skills to handle it. Then she gave me a chart to keep track of my feelings and urges to cut. And a referral for a psychopharmacologist.
I think the point of the chart was to help me figure out other ways to cope, but I almost took it as her giving me permission to cut more, as some kind of research. So, I did tonight, only a little. But just to see how it made me feel. Then I wrote it down on the chart. It made me feel better. Nothing else I tried did.
Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about your reasons for cutting, since I'm not sure I understand what's motivating me at all yet. It's really weird. I'm too old for this.
> I'm sorry your feeling depressed. I wish I had some better advice to offer you, but I'm depressed myself. Why do you think you started cutting all of the sudden? Do you have an idea of what triggered it? I know I cut because it's a way of punishing myself. I read on the webpage that I recommended to you that carving initials seems to be fairly common. What did your T have to say about this (if you don't mind my asking)? Take care of yourself okay. ((((Crushedout))))
> Elle
Posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 23:58:33
In reply to ((((Crushedout))))) » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on February 26, 2004, at 23:38:42
I'm sorry you're depressed also, Elle (I'm so freaking self-absorbed I didn't even say this in my last post -- more self-flaggellation, which is simply more self-absorption -- ugh).Do you know why? (if you feel like talking about it -- if not I understand -- besides, it's so hard to know why)
anyway, it helps to have each other to write to, doesn't it? well, it helps me when you write to me. makes me feel less alone. so thank you.
Posted by Kind Girl on February 27, 2004, at 1:00:00
In reply to Re: ((((Crushedout))))) » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 23:52:27
This whole thread interests me because I am a closet self injurer. The thing I do is called "self excoriation"...it is a really disgusting habit of picking at my fingers (yeah start with cuticle and work around the tips) and my feet. It is so disgusting I hate writing about it.
I could barely talk to T. about it and finally did after I put on acrylic nails and COULDN'T pick if I wanted to (my way of constraining myself). Her response was something like this: I hurt myself because I am hurting inside so much that I can't express it so I take it out on my body to have a focus for the pain. If my finger is bleeding from picking at it, or I can't walk on my left foot because I have torn up the bottom of it, then I can say, "Ah ha! That is why I feel so bad!"...and the issue, the real pain...it never has to come out. It is a survival mechanism I think.
I also started smoking last year for the same reasons. I would smoke a cigarette (closet smoker too) and then shame myself all day long for it.."You are disgusting! You can't quit now!"...and that would work in keeping me in the shame spiral. I finally went to a pdoc and got Wellbutrin and now cigarettes taste like hay...it really worked for me!
But the point is....I hurt myself when the hurt inside is unbearable. My t. says I/we need to find ways for me to comfort myself in other ways instead of dissociating by picking at my skin for comfort. It sounds really nice and easy but it isn't, as you guys all know too well.
Thanks everyone for sharing. It helps to know I am not alone.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 1:54:33
In reply to ((((Elle))))) » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on February 26, 2004, at 23:58:33
So all this started quite by accident then, that's interesting. Do you think you cut this time because you wanted to upset your therapist or get a reaction out of her?
I'm not sure if you've read my threads about my cutting, but I started really young. My reason was usually a way to express my frustration due to what I perceived as unfair punishments from my parents. IMO, virtually everything I did warrented a punishment. I could never do anything right. It frustrated me so much. When I was in middle school and highschool, I did beauty pageants. I can remember my mother constantly railing the way my body looked. She never said I was fat or anything, but she made these comments about me looking somewhat deformed in this orange top. She said it just didn't look "right" on me and for that matter, nothing did. I still remember the incident word for word. And it hurts to even think about it. I don't mean to rail my mother here, I love her, but she said some things to me that really hurt. That is another reason I think I cut. I feel that in some way I am truly deformed. I even went so far as to go to a plastic surgeon to talk about it and he asked me straight out of no where if I was seeing a psychiatrist for all this. I was... Ugh.
>My T was angry and pressing me for reasons.She wanted to know what I was feeling, what I was getting out of it.
It's so annoying when they ask the same question repeatedly and I just don't have the answers she wants. I know they think I'm trying to avoid the question, but in reality, I just really don't know what I feel.
I don't think I get anything out of cutting aside from feeling like I have been properly punished. I seem to be unable to just feel bad about something and then let it go.
>I think I sort of liked it. Maybe in a sort of masochistic way.
Is it the pain you enjoy? Do you feel really numb, so in order to feel something you SI? Sometimes that's the reason I do it. Other times, I depersonalize, so then I self injure to reassure myself that I am awake and real. This has been the trend for me lately, as I have been depersonalizing more than usual as of late.
>She said it made her realize that before we get into exploring my fantasies about her, we have to make sure I have enough coping skills to handle it.
I definitely agree with her on that. It might not be a good idea to delve into your fantasies about her without having a healthy way to cope with them. I just really hope for you that this is something you can stop since you just recently started. It is a highly addictive behavior.
>Then she gave me a chart to keep track of my feelings and urges to cut.
Thats a good idea, I think I'm going to try it. Do you mind describing the chart? I think that would be really helpful.
>And a referral for a psychopharmacologist.
For meds? Some of the meds that control impulses are said to be somewhat helpful for SI-ing.
>I think the point of the chart was to help me figure out other ways to cope, but I almost took it as her giving me permission to cut more, as some kind of research.
Probably research on your motives for cutting. Perhaps you should not only list the time you had the urge to cut, but also the motivation for it. i.e. an argument with a spouse, child etc.
>So, I did tonight, only a little. But just to see how it made me feel. Then I wrote it down on the chart. It made me feel better. Nothing else I tried did.
What else did you try first? Sometimes I find taking an anti-anxiety helps me to calm down enough to resist the urge. Did you cut tonight just to see how it would make you feel or was there another more specific reason. I try to identify why I'm getting the urge to cut. Tonight, I admit, I ran my fingernails down my leg. I was upset about my cowardness and my fear of calling my T. Plus I was having a bad OCD day and I needed a "punishment."
> I'm sorry you're depressed also, Elle (I'm so freaking self-absorbed I didn't even say this in my last post -- more self-flaggellation, which is simply more self-absorption -- ugh).
Don't feel self-absorbed. I tend to feel that way too. You probably notice I give a personal experience in virtually every post I write. That's because I usually am able to understand people by first relating their problems to myself. I hope that doesn't come across as self-absorbed. I am sometimes, but I think everyone is at some point.
> Do you know why? (if you feel like talking about it -- if not I understand -- besides, it's so hard to know why)
I'm really not sure why I'm depressed. I have Dysthymia, so the depression is always there. This time, I think I'm just unhappy with my life altogether. I'm overly tired and school work seems to be never-ending. I get overwhelmed so easily. I really feel like I should have a job, but everytime I get one, I quit 3-4 months later.
> anyway, it helps to have each other to write to, doesn't it? well, it helps me when you write to me. makes me feel less alone. so thank you.
Makes me feel less alone too. :) Thanks for being there. By the way, I realize I have asked you tons of questions in this post. Please don't feel like you have to answer every single one of them. Don't answer the ones that make you feel uncomfortable. But, I would love to hear your answers.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 1:57:40
In reply to Re: ((((Crushedout))))), posted by Kind Girl on February 27, 2004, at 1:00:00
I'm so happy the Welbutrin helped you stop smoking!! :) Yay for you!!
How are you coping with SI-ing? Have you found anything that helps to control and resist the urges? Anything like medications, mind exercises, etc?
Elle
Posted by cubic_me on February 27, 2004, at 3:31:05
In reply to Good for you! » Kind Girl, posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 1:57:40
Somewhere along the thread someone mentioned reasons for why people SI. I think that we are all different in that respect, but there are definatly some reasons that are common to many of us.
I started when I was about 13, picking at my skin with a needle. I didn't know what I was doing (that it had a name) but it made me focus pain away from the internal pain that I had so little control over. A few years ago I started cutting because it was so hard to get blood with a needle, and seeing blood made me feel like I had punished myself *enough*.
Sometimes I just want to hack at myself until I bleed to death, but I am careful about where I cut and very concious of my scars. Thats the only thing that stops me going further with it.
Seeing the pain on my skin is a more *acceptable* form of pain than internal pain which I was brought up to repress and punish. I like to see the cuts because I know that the pain is real and that I am really hurting.
Why do you guys think you do it? Are you ashamed of it?
Posted by KindGirl on February 27, 2004, at 16:24:11
In reply to SI reasons, posted by cubic_me on February 27, 2004, at 3:31:05
Oh yeah I am ashamed...that is the whole point. I seem to enjoy shaming myself and making myself feel bad...is that sick or what?
Posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 18:00:35
In reply to SI reasons, posted by cubic_me on February 27, 2004, at 3:31:05
> Why do you guys think you do it? Are you ashamed of it?
I listed in depth why I do it in a couple of posts above this one. I am definitely ashamed of it. If anyone found out about it (aside from my T and pdoc who already know) I would be mortified. I don't even know how I would explain it. Has anyone else ever gotten caught in the act of SI-ing?? If so, how did you explain it?
Elle
Posted by crushedout on February 27, 2004, at 18:19:29
In reply to Re: ((((Elle))))), posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 1:54:33
hi elle,i definitely don't mind trying to answer your questions. i like it, actually.
> So all this started quite by accident then, that's interesting. Do you think you cut this time because you wanted to upset your therapist or get a reaction out of her?
yes, i think that's why i did it, mostly. and i think she knew that, and that's why she was mad at me. i even told her in the email where i told her i did it, that i felt like i was being manipulative by telling her about it, but the alternative (not telling her) seemed worse. that didn't get me off the hook, though.
> >My T was angry and pressing me for reasons.She wanted to know what I was feeling, what I was getting out of it.
>
> It's so annoying when they ask the same question repeatedly and I just don't have the answers she wants. I know they think I'm trying to avoid the question, but in reality, I just really don't know what I feel.yeah, i really didn't have the answers and she wouldn't let me just say "i don't know." she usually does, but i guess she was mad or i don't know why she was pressing me like that.
> >I think I sort of liked it. Maybe in a sort of masochistic way.
>
> Is it the pain you enjoy? Do you feel really numb, so in order to feel something you SI? Sometimes that's the reason I do it. Other times, I depersonalize, so then I self injure to reassure myself that I am awake and real. This has been the trend for me lately, as I have been depersonalizing more than usual as of late.well, i was talking about liking her being mad at me, i think. but i also liked the si. i don't think it was the pain i enjoyed. it's hard for me to tell. it's more seeing the blood, i guess. i've only done it three times now but each time i was in pain, and i did it to calm myself, to feel numb -- so, it was the opposite of what you're talking about. although i could see myself doing it to feel something when i'm numb, too. i just haven't done it for that reason yet. hopefully, i won't start.
> >She said it made her realize that before we get into exploring my fantasies about her, we have to make sure I have enough coping skills to handle it.
>
> I definitely agree with her on that. It might not be a good idea to delve into your fantasies about her without having a healthy way to cope with them. I just really hope for you that this is something you can stop since you just recently started. It is a highly addictive behavior.me, too. i think i can. that's why i told her about it. i don't want to wait till it's gotten completely out of control.
> >Then she gave me a chart to keep track of my feelings and urges to cut.
>
> Thats a good idea, I think I'm going to try it. Do you mind describing the chart? I think that would be really helpful.sure. the chart has columns for (1) day and time, (2) urge to cut on scale of 1-5, (3) feeling(s) (or if you can't figure out what you're feeling that thought(s)), (4) action taken (cutting would be one possible action, i suppose -- this is where i took this as permission to cut -- but ideally, i guess you would try something less destructive, like writing in a journal), and (5) feeling after action.
> >And a referral for a psychopharmacologist.
>
> For meds? Some of the meds that control impulses are said to be somewhat helpful for SI-ing.yeah, i guess that was the idea. and also to avoid falling into a deep depression. i'm already on some meds but a very low dose.
> >So, I did tonight, only a little. But just to see how it made me feel. Then I wrote it down on the chart. It made me feel better. Nothing else I tried did.
>
> What else did you try first? Sometimes I find taking an anti-anxiety helps me to calm down enough to resist the urge. Did you cut tonight just to see how it would make you feel or was there another more specific reason. I try to identify why I'm getting the urge to cut.i tried filling out the chart (as my action) and then i tried journal writing. but the journal writing made me very sad and i cried a lot, and then that made me want to cut way more than i was wanting to before i wrote. so i did, and then i felt comforted. i felt so much better.
i know that's messed up. i'm not sure what i'm going to do to deal with this.
crushed
Posted by KindGirl on February 27, 2004, at 19:18:18
In reply to Reason and additional question, posted by Elle2021 on February 27, 2004, at 18:00:35
Sick because I lie so easily...sad because I can't stop.
I pick at my fingers...esp my thumbs. They look horrid when I do it...like someone poured acid on me...just gross....well one time a friend "caught" it...noticed it and commented on it and lied. I can't believe how It can come up with lies...a million of them "I cut myself chopping vegetables" (when I hide w/bandaids)..."I burned my thumb on the curling iron"...but this takes the cake......
I made up some b.s. story about my breast pump causing my thumbs to blister constantly because this one friend wouldn't leave it alone. When she had a baby a few years later she said, "I don't want to use the breast pump you used because it blistered you." Is that sad or what?About being caught....since I pick when I am dissociating which is usually in the car or while I am watching tv, my husband will say "stop picking!!" or "quit chewing!"...and I will stop while he is looking but as soon as he turns his head I am picking away or I do it under the table.
Okay now I feel like crud for sharing all of this but it is the truth and I am being honest and open with you guys. My nails broke off (I needed a fill and just bit off all the nails yesterday) and I am already picking and biting and I am thoroughly disgusted with myself. Even typing is hard because one of my fingers is thrashed.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 28, 2004, at 0:53:23
In reply to answers » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on February 27, 2004, at 18:19:29
Hi Crushed
> i even told her in the email where i told her i did it, that i felt like i was being manipulative
Usually when we are manipulative we are trying to gain something or trying to get the other person to do something we want, that they don't necessarily feel comfortable giving or doing for us. If you think you were being manipulative, what do you think you wanted from her? Just attention, or something more?
but the alternative (not telling her) seemed worse.
I'm glad you did tell her. It's something she should know about, that way she can help you through it. It took me over a year to tell my pdoc.
> yeah, i really didn't have the answers and she wouldn't let me just say "i don't know." she usually does, but i guess she was mad or i don't know why she was pressing me like that.She probably pressed you for an answer because the cutting came out of the blue. Plus, people cut for lots of different reasons (as this thread has shown), and I'm guessing the different reasons require different thereuputic approaches.
> well, i was talking about liking her being mad at me, i think.Because she was more attentive to you?
>it's more seeing the blood, i guess.
Does seeing the blood make you feel like you are draining some of the "bad" part of you out?
>i've only done it three times now but each time i was in pain, and i did it to calm myself, to feel numb --
When you say you do it to feel numb, it makes me think you are doing it to distract yourself from what's really bothering you. So I guess the thing you have to get at here, is *what's bothering you?*
Also, I really think there is hope for you since you have only done it three times.> me, too. i think i can. that's why i told her about it. i don't want to wait till it's gotten completely out of control.
Good plan! Thank you for describing the chart. I think I will make one of my own based on your description and start keeping a record of my SI-ing.
> yeah, i guess that was the idea. and also to avoid falling into a deep depression. i'm already on some meds but a very low dose.
Have you tried Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? I'm starting it, and I think it seems to be helping me.
> i tried filling out the chart (as my action) and then i tried journal writing.
Sometimes to distract myself from the urge to cut, I just cry really hard (with the hopes of falling asleep). Can you think of other things you can do instead of SI-ing, like maybe taking a walk or cooking/baking, exercising?
> i know that's messed up. i'm not sure what i'm going to do to deal with this.
Well, I think with the help of your therapist, you will get past this. You seem pretty insightful, which is a good sign!
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on February 28, 2004, at 0:56:11
In reply to Okay this is sick and sad how I lie about it...., posted by KindGirl on February 27, 2004, at 19:18:18
I haven't ever gotten caught. Sometimes, when people ask about the cuts on my arm I say that they are cat scratches. I HATE lying like that. It makes me feel so guilty. I wish I could just say, "I'd rather not discuss it." But, that would just lead to more questions.
ElleP.S. That breast pump story is um...creative. :)
Posted by crushedout on February 28, 2004, at 1:35:43
In reply to More questions » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on February 28, 2004, at 0:53:23
really good questions, elle.
> > i even told her in the email where i told her i did it, that i felt like i was being manipulative
>
> Usually when we are manipulative we are trying to gain something or trying to get the other person to do something we want, that they don't necessarily feel comfortable giving or doing for us. If you think you were being manipulative, what do you think you wanted from her? Just attention, or something more?well, i really wasn't sure what i was trying to get. i even told her this in the email. i said it felt manipulative but i wasn't even sure what i was trying to get. i asked aloud, "nurturing? guilt?" but honestly didn't know. probably both of those things and maybe others, too. i think i probably partly wanted her to get angry at me. i wanted the negative attention. i'm not sure. i even told her when i saw her that part of me maybe wanted her to terminate me, because that would be somewhat of a relief. (btw, elle, have you been following all the drama i've been going through with my t lately? i was just assuming you had, but that's a silly assumption.) i also realized afterwards that part of me might have done it to get some kind of closure, to make it clearer to myself that nothing would ever happen between us (me and my t -- this assumes you know about my recent history with her -- if not, i'll have to fill you in) because i would have creeped her out or just appeared so f'ed up and immature that she would definitely never want to be my lover. or maybe even my friend for that matter.
> > well, i was talking about liking her being mad at me, i think.
>
> Because she was more attentive to you?not *more* attentive really, but i think the anger showed me she cared maybe. also i found it sort of arousing. that sounds weird.
> >it's more seeing the blood, i guess.
>
> Does seeing the blood make you feel like you are draining some of the "bad" part of you out?i dunno. i don't think so. i think it's like a pretty picture on my skin. i drew on myself tonight: a flower and a sun. i colored the flower in. it makes me happy to look at it. i got the same feeling when i looked at my t's initials after i carved them into my arm. that was one of the things she kept pressing me for an answer for: what about looking at the flower, the initials, the original accidental burn in the shape of a heart, gave me pleasure? i couldn't explain it. it just does. i can't explain it.
> >i've only done it three times now but each time i was in pain, and i did it to calm myself, to feel numb --
>
> When you say you do it to feel numb, it makes me think you are doing it to distract yourself from what's really bothering you. So I guess the thing you have to get at here, is *what's bothering you?*wanting so much to be my t's lover/child/mother/friend and knowing i can't be. that's clear as can be. and yes, i do it to distract myself from the pain that causes me, which is pretty unbearable at times.
> Also, I really think there is hope for you since you have only done it three times.thanks. but i think there is hope for you, and others, too. it just may be a little easier for me.
i'm glad you found the chart useful.
> > yeah, i guess that was the idea. and also to avoid falling into a deep depression. i'm already on some meds but a very low dose.
>
> Have you tried Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? I'm starting it, and I think it seems to be helping me.no, i haven't tried it. do you only do it for the si stuff, or other stuff, too? do you do other kinds of therapy? i don't entirely know what it is, except that i know it doesn't appeal to me (that sounds so closed-minded).
> > i tried filling out the chart (as my action) and then i tried journal writing.
>
> Sometimes to distract myself from the urge to cut, I just cry really hard (with the hopes of falling asleep). Can you think of other things you can do instead of SI-ing, like maybe taking a walk or cooking/baking, exercising?well, i do all that stuff (including crying really hard). after i cried hard, i wanted to SI. so that wasn't a replacement, but more of a trigger. i've been exercising every day. and shopping and snacking on healthy foods a lot. i'm actually taking amazingly good care of myself for the first time in my life, practically, in every way but this one. it's like i'm learning to nurture myself for the first time, and it feels really good. but then i cut. i don't know. it doesn't really make sense. does it?
i hope you're right that i will get past this. i'm more worried about getting over my t.
crushed
Posted by Elle2021 on February 28, 2004, at 2:16:29
In reply to More answers (long) » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on February 28, 2004, at 1:35:43
> really good questions, elle.
Thank you!
>i'm not sure. i even told her when i saw her that part of me maybe wanted her to terminate me, because that would be somewhat of a relief.
It's interesting that you sort of wanted her to terminate you. I think that perhaps for you, her terminating you would signal some type of firm answer on whether the two of you can have something more than just a therapist-client relationship.
>(btw, elle, have you been following all the drama i've been going through with my t lately? i was just assuming you had, but that's a silly assumption.)
I have been following it. :)
>i also realized afterwards that part of me might have done it to get some kind of closure, to make it clearer to myself that nothing would ever happen between us (me and my t -- this assumes you know about my recent history with her -- if not, i'll have to fill you in)
I remember you talking about your transference in the past. If I'm remembering correctly, the two of you exchanged CD's. I think that transference is like a safe experience for people in therapy to explore their feelings about relationships. The therapist is a safe person to choose to do this with because the client knows that nothing can happen between them (except in some rare, unethical situations).
> not *more* attentive really, but i think the anger showed me she cared maybe. also i found it sort of arousing. that sounds weird.
Perhaps you found it arousing because she showed concern for you, much like a close loved one might (i.e. a spouse).
> i dunno. i don't think so. i think it's like a pretty picture on my skin. i drew on myself tonight: a flower and a sun. i colored the flower in. it makes me happy to look at it. i got the same feeling when i looked at my t's initials after i carved them into my arm. that was one of the things she kept pressing me for an answer for: what about looking at the flower, the initials, the original accidental burn in the shape of a heart, gave me pleasure? i couldn't explain it. it just does. i can't explain it.
Okay, when I read the above, I started to think a little bit. Here is my sketchy theory on what you wrote:
The things you cut, carve, burn into yourself are things you desire or seek to make a part of yourself. The burn that was shaped like a heart, signified that you want love. So having a heart on your body might be like having "love." Carving your T's initials into your skin might be your way of having her with you all the time, or just having her, if that makes sense. Since you said the flower and sun make you happy when you look at them, that is like always having something you know will make you happy, right there on your skin. By the way, I would much rather have you draw on yourself then cutting. I don't know what you think about that, but I'd be interested to know.
> wanting so much to be my t's lover/child/mother/friend and knowing i can't be. that's clear as can be. and yes, i do it to distract myself from the pain that causes me, which is pretty unbearable at times.
I'm going to respond to the rest of your questions too, but I have to get something done right quick.
Elle
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