Posted by alexandra_k on November 3, 2005, at 16:23:36
In reply to Re: Non-12 Step » CleverGuy, posted by AuntieMel on November 3, 2005, at 10:36:05
> "the government needs to quit funding this religious org"
> AA doesn't get a cent from the government or any other organization.The government does force people to AA / NA treatment programs BY LAW. Does the government pay for the person to attend by any chance?
> But - they *do* have a higher success rate than any other program.
Stats please. Sorry but... They have been saying this for how many years now? Studies are done all the time and I really would be very suprised if this is so. Even if it is true CBT has the highest success rate for treatment of mental illness too - but that doesn't mean it is suited to everyone. Also... What are the success rates? I've heard the relapse rates for people relapsing 6 months, 1 year, 5 years etc after AA / NA attendance. They are staggeringly high. Can't remember them off hand however.
>It doesn't work for all people, granted, but it does work for a lot. And it was a very important part of my early sobriety, when I was totally clueless.
Yes. They have helped a lot of people and I don't want to take that away from them. The danger is in their approach being fairly much the only option for a lot of people out there. And some of what they have to say... Is unsubstantiated... And can cause more harm than help.
> A lot depends on which group you find.True. But you still have the steps. You still have the stated mission and so on and so forth. It is that stuff that I'm objecting to.
> I was told my 'higher power' could be anything - even a doorknob. I chose a jade necklace that I would touch everytime I had a craving - to remind me of the good I was doing for myself.
How did you go with confessing your sins to your higher power? Did that variety of higher power make it tricky to do some of the later steps?
I think... The message they give... The message they say you HAVE TO GET (otherwise you will die of your disease - yes they say this) is that you are powerless and your higher power will save you.
> The idea behind admitting you are powerless is that you are accepting that all the things you tried before have failed.Well. The fact you are in the program means you have already done step one then...
>It actually *gives* you power to admit that you have no power and it ISN'T your fault!
Sorry - what isn't your fault?
Did someone chain you to a chair and force your drug of choice down your throat or up your arm or whatever?I agree that it isn't your fault that you jolly well LOVE whatever it is... I agree that your behaviour is UNDERSTANDABLE given your pain etc etc. But one does need to take responsibility... And that is ultimately what helped me to progress... Not accepting powerlessness but taking responsibility. IMO there is a difference...
> As for counting days - every day is a milestone and every day is a miracle.Yeah, but if you are thinking about your drug of choice every day (in order to count the days) then how much are you moving on from your addiction. Recovering from your addiction. Not obsessing about the stuff just living your life. AA / NA tells you you have a disease. That is to say you are ALWAYS an addict. It is possible for someone to be an addict but to NEVER use. I think that is conceptually confused. You alter your behaviour - and the problem is fixed. Thats a cure if anything is.
> Why will you "be ferderally forced to listen to their non-sense in a few weeks?"
Probably a treatment order...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:573995
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20050914/msgs/575057.html