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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 16, 2004, at 12:43:26
I wanted to let youse guys know that I'm trying EMDR treatment for my drinking behaviour. Since all my drinking is done in hiding (closets are good if there is company in the house), the therapist has approached it as an anxiety coping behaviour. Normally if I'm alone I will run, not walk, to get a drink in me as soon as I get home from work. Then the evening quickly degenerates and I say all sorts of bizarre things to people who call me.
These first dew days have been a surprise. The panic and anxiety starts even before I leave work - I suppose because I would be thinking where I was going to stop on the way home for supplies. I feel ill, my head is spinning, heart is trying to beat itself out of my chest - and I just drive the rest of the way home. I tell myself that I can deal with the discomfort.
My evenings are l-o-n-g without booze to do that time warp thing.
Just thought I would share.
Posted by watergirl on September 17, 2004, at 22:27:19
In reply to Not drinking, posted by partlycloudy on September 16, 2004, at 12:43:26
What is EMDR?
I wish you the best to sustain your focus on not drinking. I really understand.
Best Wishes & Lots of Love,
Cindy
Posted by partlycloudy on September 18, 2004, at 7:03:06
In reply to Re: Not drinking » partlycloudy, posted by watergirl on September 17, 2004, at 22:27:19
It's a type of treatment - Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing - that allows you to get over past events that have become sticking points in your head (now cause anxiety, or other symptoms). It's often used for people who have experienced traumatic events in their past. For me, I am trying to change how I react to being alone. Used to race for the closet and gulp a drink.
It's a fascinating treatment. It has been working well for my panic attacks and anxiety, so I am hopeful it well help me change this life sapping habit.
There's more info at emdr.com
pc
thanks for the well wishes!
Posted by partlycloudy on September 18, 2004, at 7:08:05
In reply to Re: Not drinking » watergirl, posted by partlycloudy on September 18, 2004, at 7:03:06
No drinking still. It is so much easier when there is company at home. I can mix a mean martini but don't feel like I have to suck the ice cubes.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 19, 2004, at 20:22:41
In reply to Day three, posted by partlycloudy on September 18, 2004, at 7:08:05
I am now ready to bite the head off of my company. Still no drinking but feel a black and sticky panic that did not relent all day.
I can hardly wait to sleep and end this day.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 20, 2004, at 11:30:16
In reply to Day Four, posted by partlycloudy on September 19, 2004, at 20:22:41
Who cares anymore. I'm not drinking and haven't been this anxious and panicked for months. This is nothing to be proud of. This is why people drink in the first place. Who would want to spend any time in THIS brain? It's a nasty place to be.
pc, who feels pretty depressed right now.
Posted by antigua on September 20, 2004, at 23:16:28
In reply to Re:, posted by partlycloudy on September 20, 2004, at 11:30:16
Are you o.k.? Remind yourself how good you feel when you wake up in the morning. Do it for yourself. Go to sleep? Or, maybe you can't sleep? Take a pill? I wish I could be there to keep you company through this anxiety and panic. I know how you feel, but hopefully it will start to lessen. Sorry if I sound preachy, I'm not by any means. I just care about you and I know you're committed to it. You made it through my worst time--the weekend, of course.
Is your husband away?
That was interesting, what you said earlier, about drinking because you were afraid to be alone. I don't have anything else to say about it--it just made me think.
antigua
Posted by saw on September 21, 2004, at 1:14:16
In reply to Re:, posted by antigua on September 20, 2004, at 23:16:28
that you have made it this far. Hang in there, you are so much stronger that you realise.
Sabrina
Posted by partlycloudy on September 21, 2004, at 7:44:53
In reply to Re:, posted by antigua on September 20, 2004, at 23:16:28
My depression has flared up seriously for the first time in a year. Once again I'm at that horrible place where you feel like you'll never stop crying, never feel like a regular person, and I guess I look at myself not sneaking any drinks and in my present state of mind, say, "so bloody what?"
I do like feeling better when I wake up in the morning. I am happy I'm not getting headaches. I am upset by the anxiety and panic I'm experiencing again, and what I'll have to try next. As if all the issues I resolved in my EMDR treatment have just allowed other ones to take their place.
Thanks all for listening and your unwavering support. It really does help.
pc
Posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 10:00:18
In reply to Why I think this is hard right now » antigua, posted by partlycloudy on September 21, 2004, at 7:44:53
Don't give up, and try not to despair (easier said than done). I have been where you are. I drank for years (starting in my teens), and got to a point where I was drinking every night (and not just a couple of glasses of wine), and binge drinking all weekend long. For a few years, I told myself I didn't have a problem. I even did the old alcholic test of controlling my drinking and was successful (three months here, two months there - see, I didn't have a problem right - WRONG). After each dry period, the pattern would start again. Like you, I spent the hour or so before I left work thinking about where I would get my supplies for the evening, always making sure I didn't go to the same place more than once in a week (wouldn't want them to think I had a problem - LOL). Although I did not lose anything from my drinking (I hid it pretty well -never drank during the day during working hours), I finally hit bottom. That was 8 1/2 years ago. I stopped drinking, thinking it was just to give myself a break. Boy, did I go through a period of extreme anxiety at this time (I also stopped a 10+ cup coffee dependence and stopped using the over-the-counter medication (which contained a stimulant) that I had been using daily for years. When I was 2 months sober, I called AA and went to my first meeting. I went to meetings twice a day for two months and then at least three times a week after that. I have not had a drink since. Sometimes I wish I could drink socially, but I know that if I have that first drink, it will be a slow spiral to where I was 8 1/2 years ago. I can't kid myself. I am at a point now that I am happy to be sober. I even carry all of my chips (including my "desire" chip in my purse to remind me of my accomplishment. I don't get down on myself like I used to when I was drinking. I am not worried and paranoid, and I wake up in the morning with a relatively clear head and no upset stomach or shakiness. It does get better, so hang in there, go to meetings and talk to people. Sorry for rambling, and I hope what I have said makes sense. Take good care.
> My depression has flared up seriously for the first time in a year. Once again I'm at that horrible place where you feel like you'll never stop crying, never feel like a regular person, and I guess I look at myself not sneaking any drinks and in my present state of mind, say, "so bloody what?"
>
> I do like feeling better when I wake up in the morning. I am happy I'm not getting headaches. I am upset by the anxiety and panic I'm experiencing again, and what I'll have to try next. As if all the issues I resolved in my EMDR treatment have just allowed other ones to take their place.
>
> Thanks all for listening and your unwavering support. It really does help.
> pc
>
>
Posted by partlycloudy on September 21, 2004, at 10:04:36
In reply to Re: Why I think this is hard right now » partlycloudy, posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 10:00:18
Thank you - your post is encouraging for me. I'm hoping with the therapy I'm participating in that I won't be a dry drunk eventually. I had not one, not two, but three bad experiences with AA, so I determined that I have to find another path to sobriety. (Of course, I felt like a failure that it wasn't working for me, but that's another symptom, isn't it?)
best regards,
pc
Posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 10:21:43
In reply to Re: Why I think this is hard right now » jujube, posted by partlycloudy on September 21, 2004, at 10:04:36
AA isn't for everyone. I wasn't exactly an active AA member (read the 12 steps, the Big Book, Living Sober, etc.), but going to the meetings, and hearing the stories of others' roads to recovery helped me immensely in the early months of my recovery. I actually never even had a sponsor (although a friend of mine who had over 25 years of sobriety at the time and had worked as a director of an addictions recovery home, and his wife (also a recovered addict/alcholic) kind of acted as surrogate sponsors and gave me the strength, support and encouragement I needed along the way. You need to find what works for you (and you will). And, when you think about having a drink, just think about what your life was really like before you stopped and how drinking made you feel - both physically and emotionally. That's what I do and, no pun intended, it always ends up being a very sobering reflection. I don't want to feel shaky, paranoid, and worried to the extent that I was in my last few years of drinking. Don't get me wrong. I still worry and sometimes feel inadequate, anxious and down. But who doesn't. I think sometimes our alcholic brains convince us that everybody else is happy and we're not. What I have realized is that alcholic or not, sober or using, we still have to face adversity. But, for me at least, being sober helps me deal with problems in a more rational way. I don't know if what I have said helps, but have faith that things will get better. Be patient and be good to yourself. Patience is particuarly important. We alcholics are always in such a rush to feel good fast. We want results. The results will come when you stop beating yourself up and learn to love and accept yourself for who you are, warts and all. On my 5 year chip, I had a phrase that sums it up for me, and often helps me get through the tough times - The ox is slow but the earth is patient. I guess for me, this just reminds me that I can't do everything and things will fall into place when the time is right. Hang in there, and I am here if you need to talk.
> Thank you - your post is encouraging for me. I'm hoping with the therapy I'm participating in that I won't be a dry drunk eventually. I had not one, not two, but three bad experiences with AA, so I determined that I have to find another path to sobriety. (Of course, I felt like a failure that it wasn't working for me, but that's another symptom, isn't it?)
>
> best regards,
> pc
Posted by antigua on September 21, 2004, at 12:41:55
In reply to Why I think this is hard right now » antigua, posted by partlycloudy on September 21, 2004, at 7:44:53
I want to write back but don't have time right now. It's a beautiful day here and I'm going to take a walk (exercise). I'm thinking about you and sending good thoughts your way.
antigua
Posted by vwoolf on September 21, 2004, at 14:24:45
In reply to Re: Why I think this is hard right now » partlycloudy, posted by antigua on September 21, 2004, at 12:41:55
Antigua, I have just been reading some of the old posts and a few weeks ago you wrote the following:
>>Drinking came up in therapy today (you must have been on my mind) and my T offered a whole other perspective that wouldn't have ever occurred to me. She said drinking was a way to identify w/my mother. A negative identification is better than none at all, she says. And here I always thought it was identification w/my father!
As is true w/so many people, my relationship w/my mother is very complicated. She doesn't know "me" and I'm always the perfect daughter. I would never confront or cross her because of abandonment issues. I know there's a lot of anger over her not protecting me when I was a child and I guess I'm going to have to deal with that. <<
I wonder if you could explain a bit more about what you meant. It resonates deeply with me, but I can't quite explain why. I have also always been the perfect daughter, would never confront my mother with her failings, have always protectected her as if I were her mother. But I don't understand the negative identification from that. Thanks.
VW
Posted by partlycloudy on September 23, 2004, at 4:48:23
In reply to Day Four, posted by partlycloudy on September 19, 2004, at 20:22:41
So far, so good. The depression is fading somewhat and I'm still not drinking. Going to address my anxieties day by day and see where that leads me.
Posted by saw on September 23, 2004, at 4:54:11
In reply to Day something more than Four, posted by partlycloudy on September 23, 2004, at 4:48:23
Posted by antigua on September 23, 2004, at 9:23:19
In reply to Something you wrote a few days ago » antigua, posted by vwoolf on September 21, 2004, at 14:24:45
Gosh, it's hard sometimes to review a post and say, "I wrote that? What was I thinking?"
I'm all over the place sometimes.I'm not really sure how negative identification works. gg??
I have huge abandonment issues with my mother. She left me, sent me away many, many times when I was child. She often told me of people who wanted to adopt me. As a child, I firmly believed that if I was just "good enough" she wouldn't send me away again. I am still that perfect daughter to her, mostly because I am afraid that if I anger her, she will cut me off, just as she has done with several of my siblings.
My abandonment issues are complicated by an unexpressed anger (o.k., probably rage) I have toward my mother that she repeatedly put me in unsafe situations where I was abused by my father and grandfather. She didn't protect me.
So my T says in order to be close to her (the abandonment issue) I identify w/her by doing what she used to do: drink. It's a way to make myself feel closer to her. Now I could have picked a positive identification (did I have any?) but my self-destructiveness made me choose this route.
As I said, I don't know how it really works, but it surprised me when my T said it. I thought it was more related to my father. Actually, my own drinking is related to him in the sense that I've identified what makes me drink when I am trying to quit and I impulsively pick up a drink: it's that moment when the pain/feelings of terror, anticipation and confusion overwhelm me. I haven't been able to get to the other side of this, yet, to go through these feelings and come out on the other side. I think this is why my T says she thinks I will be o.k. (regarding drinking) once I do work through this. That said, I've been working on this a very long time.
I thank partlycloudy for pointing out her ultimate trigger: not wanting to be alone. It made me identify that thing that makes me want to obliterate myself so I don't have to succumb to feelings, which at this point, still overwhelm me, I can't get a handle on them.
antigua
Posted by Mistermindmasta on September 23, 2004, at 16:12:01
In reply to Day something more than Four, posted by partlycloudy on September 23, 2004, at 4:48:23
I have never really considered myself an alcoholic, but I have gone like a week straight of drinking at least 3 beers per night. Now that might not seem like a lot to you, but recently I culminated my week straight drinking experience with 2 nights of hardcore hardcore drunkenness and then went cold turkey. Not the best idea, but I figured what the hell... When I went through withdrawal, the depression was honestly worst at the 3 day marker. Not day 2. Day 4 and 5 I swear i was still feeling depressed and after a full week, it was seriously amazing at how much energy and motivation and clearheadedness (is that a word?) I had! And that day 3 and 4 sucked BIG TIME!!! So just hang in there... you'll start to feel good in a few more days. Your digestion and immune system will start getting back to normal and that will help you feel better. Drinking every day sucks is no good... I still have nothing at all against alcohol or getting hammered every so often but every day messes with your brain too much. You're doing the right thing.
Posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 7:27:37
In reply to Re: Day something more than Four, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 23, 2004, at 16:12:01
I detoxed myself from daily use of alcohol about 6 years ago. Since that time I have experienced worsening depressive periods, at which times I have self medicated with drinking. Now I have anxiety and panic attacks which had been getting better but are now back with a vengeance, taking up about a third of my day.
When I started to self medicate, the world as they know me was not aware of it. I hid my booze in my closet, or replaced what I drank out of the liquor cabinet - things I didn't bother to do when I was drinking professionally. So I added a huge dose of guilt onto the guilt I allow myself to experience every day anyway.
I underwent EMDR therapy for this solo drinking behaviour. It happens when I'm alone. My spouse travels frequently for work and when I come home to an empty house, I had been making a beeline for a drink, forgoing meals and saving the calories for my drinking. I would wait for my husband to take a nap on the weekends, then go up and sneak a drink.
THis current chronicle I've been posting here is my result of that treatment. I think this is more of a psychological withdrawl (from what I remember of my homemade detox), and the anxiety is excrutiating. What makes it worse is knowing that a drink would not even help.
I see my p-doc and therapist next week to reevaluate my meds. I'm experiencing hormonal stuff at the same time and if you find a sizeable rock, I would gladly crawl under it for at least a week.
Sorry, probably far more than you ever wanted to know about me, but I'm trying to figure out what is really happening to me.
pc
Posted by jujube on September 24, 2004, at 8:28:16
In reply to Re: Day something more than Four » Mistermindmasta, posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 7:27:37
Partlycloudy,
I can related to what you are going through. I, too, spent my last years of active alcoholism drinking in isolation. I hid my booze, drank before I went out with friends or family or after I can home from a night out, etc. I was 34 when I finally quit drinking (after a few attempts of trying to control my drinking and staying sober for two or three month stretches just to prove to myself that I really didn't have problem). When I stopped drinking, I experienced such unbearable anxiety and fear I thought I would never get over it. I had gone to a counsellor just after I stopped drinking and told her that I thought I had a drinking problem. She looked at me, rolled her eyes and told me that I certainly did not have a problem (I guess I had not given her enough of the gorey details to convince her). And, on the surface, it probably did seem like I didn't have a problem (I never missed a day of work, was never late for work, still able to work long hours and produce enormous amonths of work, etc.). Yet, I was drinking every night and all weekend. About a month into my sobriety, I was put on Paxil (the first AD I had ever been put on) and given a very small prescription for Xanax to help with the anxiety until the Paxil kicked in. After the initial few weeks of side effects, I started to feel better. The anxiety and fear were subsiding, and I started going to meetings just to get me out of the house. That was 8 1/2 years ago and I haven't looked back. Paxil for me was a charm. I know a lot of people don't like it, but for me it worked and worked well. I regained my energy and starting sleeping better than I had in years. I did gain some weight, but I needed to since I really didn't eat that much when I was drinking.
I am not saying that my sobriety has been a cake walk. Some days, out of the blue, I will think about how nice it would be to have a drink. But, I know now, for me at least, I would just end up where I was 8 1/2 years ago. Hang in there. It does and will get better. Please take good care of yourself.
> I detoxed myself from daily use of alcohol about 6 years ago. Since that time I have experienced worsening depressive periods, at which times I have self medicated with drinking. Now I have anxiety and panic attacks which had been getting better but are now back with a vengeance, taking up about a third of my day.
>
> When I started to self medicate, the world as they know me was not aware of it. I hid my booze in my closet, or replaced what I drank out of the liquor cabinet - things I didn't bother to do when I was drinking professionally. So I added a huge dose of guilt onto the guilt I allow myself to experience every day anyway.
>
> I underwent EMDR therapy for this solo drinking behaviour. It happens when I'm alone. My spouse travels frequently for work and when I come home to an empty house, I had been making a beeline for a drink, forgoing meals and saving the calories for my drinking. I would wait for my husband to take a nap on the weekends, then go up and sneak a drink.
>
> THis current chronicle I've been posting here is my result of that treatment. I think this is more of a psychological withdrawl (from what I remember of my homemade detox), and the anxiety is excrutiating. What makes it worse is knowing that a drink would not even help.
>
> I see my p-doc and therapist next week to reevaluate my meds. I'm experiencing hormonal stuff at the same time and if you find a sizeable rock, I would gladly crawl under it for at least a week.
>
> Sorry, probably far more than you ever wanted to know about me, but I'm trying to figure out what is really happening to me.
>
> pc
Posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 8:42:33
In reply to Re: Day something more than Four » partlycloudy, posted by jujube on September 24, 2004, at 8:28:16
I truly appreciate your supportive words. My mind is a scary place lately. Moods all over the place, changing my mind several times during the course of the day, elation and utter desolation within the same hour. I do get some comfort in knowing that I have make things slightly less complicated by refraining from drinking in stealth and in public.
Posted by jujube on September 24, 2004, at 9:11:54
In reply to Thanks, jujube, posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 8:42:33
I know what you mean. Sometimes our minds just won't shut off when we want them to (maybe researchers should develop some kind of on/off switch for us ruminaters!). I remember a girl speaking at an AA open speaker meeting once, and she said something like: I have been living inside my head for a while, and it's not a great neighborhood to be in. God, did she hit the nail on the head. I never thought I would ever be able to stop drinking (or even that I wanted to). Although I knew I had a problem, partying was, and had been, such a big part of my life from the time I was about 15. There wasn't much I did (except work) that didn't involve drinking. I think, eventually, your mind and body will stop fighting each other, and sobriety will be a welcome, tranquil and reassuring place, if that makes any sense. I know you had bad experiences at AA, and I am not suggesting that you try it again. I would, however, suggest that you read an AA book called "Living Sober". I don't know that I ever really got much from the meetings themselves (except some contact with other alcoholics and a sense that there is life after drinking), but that particular book I found useful. I still read it at times when I am going through a particularly difficult or challenging time. Anyways, don't give up. This is a battle that can be won. Take good care, and I am here if you need to chat.
> I truly appreciate your supportive words. My mind is a scary place lately. Moods all over the place, changing my mind several times during the course of the day, elation and utter desolation within the same hour. I do get some comfort in knowing that I have make things slightly less complicated by refraining from drinking in stealth and in public.
Posted by vwoolf on September 24, 2004, at 15:10:21
In reply to Re: Something you wrote a few days ago » vwoolf, posted by antigua on September 23, 2004, at 9:23:19
Thanks so much for the reply. My childhood sounds so similar to yours it's eery, except for the fact that my mother didn't drink - my father did. So my negative identification must be with my father, if that is what it is. Which I find very scary, but as he was the only loving figure around, although sexually abusive, I suppose it makes sense. Whew. My therapist also seems to think I don't really risk becoming an alcoholic, but I have a huge fear of it. And guilt around it. Etc.etc.etc. I guess you know what I mean.
Warm regards
VW
Posted by antigua on September 24, 2004, at 21:24:26
In reply to Re: Something you wrote a few days ago » antigua, posted by vwoolf on September 24, 2004, at 15:10:21
It does sound like our stories are very similar and I hope we can help each other out.
My mother didn't start drinking heavily until I was a teenager, but my father always drank, up until the few years before he died. I'm convinced alcohol played a big role in my abuse, but I haven't put it all together yet.
I think I'll do a little research on negative identification because I'm still confused over it. I'll let you know if I find anything worthwhile.
Thanks again,
antigua
Posted by partlycloudy on September 27, 2004, at 16:59:33
In reply to Re: Day something more than Four » Mistermindmasta, posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 7:27:37
And made it through a hurricane AND a weekend.
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