![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
Since JayJ opened a similar thread, I really wanted to get some feedback on a related issue - how do your partners feel about your long-term therapy? LT therapy can be really hard for partners, especially when the T is the same gender as the partner. Has your partner met your T? What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost? Has your partner asked you to limit or stop your therapy? How has therapy affected your relationship? This is very difficult and painful problem for me.
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2008, at 22:16:54
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
He came in as I was reading your post, so I asked him. He declined to type his own answer. So any inaccuracies in my response are his fault.
I think he resents the money. He'd like me to quit my job, but I can't if I continue therapy. He's not jealous as a man. (Although I do once remember him saying he was a bit jealous.) He's aware that I don't care about my therapist in a sexual or romantic way. He worries a bit that he is part of the reason I need therapy.
He not only doesn't ask me to quit, but he does everything he can to support my going. Albeit with a few hints that I'm one step away from the mental hospital. He saw my strong hysterics that time we nearly moved out of town and away from my therapist. I think it scared him.
My therapy has helped my relationship. No doubts there. My therapist has met my husband a few times, and understands him sufficiently to be a help to me. Also, a couple of years ago, my therapist and I had a series of conversations that really really improved my physical relationship with my husband. My husband appreciates that.
He mentions sometimes that he doesn't understand what my therapist can do that he can't do, or wonders if he's the reason I need therapy. I remind him that it would be unfair of me to expect him to meet all of my needs. That he doesn't like to do the sort of emotional stuff I do with my therapist. He tends to get impatient, bored, and sometimes angry. And that I have a problem with a hyperaroused nervous system, and therapy helps keep that at a manageable level.
Overall, I'm sure he wishes I didn't go to therapy but that I acted as though I did.
Posted by stellabystarlight on September 19, 2008, at 22:58:52
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
LUCIE: How do your partners feel about your long-term therapy? LT therapy can be really hard for partners, especially when the T is the same gender as the partner.
STELLA: My husband thinks it's great as long as I feel it's furthering me in my quest to reintegrate me in a healthier way. In fact, he encouraged me to stay with therapy, when I thought about quitting. However, he knows very little about everything that transpires in my therapy and doesn't ask.
LUCIE: Has your partner met your T?
STELLA: No way - not now anyway! It would feel too much like introducing a boyfriend to a husband. Wow, you're really making me think about how my T feels to me with this question... He is so many things to me right now; father, mother, son, friend, mentor, therapist, LOVER/BOYFRIEND! Very complicated.
LUCIE: What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost?
STELLA: My husband doesn't have any issues with the cost, but jealousy...hmmm...only because he doesn't know about the intense Lover/Boyfriend "transference". Although my husband is supportive and psychologically very sophisticated, I think he would feel threatened by the erotic transference and ask me to stop seeing my T. But, if he could overlook his understandable insecurities, he would say to stay with him to work through all the transference that's popped up.
LUCIE: How has therapy affected your relationship? This is very difficult and painful problem for me.
STELLA: Well, my T happens to be very attractive and more my physical type, so it did affect my relationship in that I fantasized about my T. But, my problem with my husband runs pretty deep, so deep that they're independent of my feelings towards my T. I've been seeing my relationship with my T in a more rational way since we've been discussing candidly about my erotic and love transference. And, this has helped me to see that my husband is the one that I should really count on. In this way, therapy has helped our relationship. We still have many problems, but my T has somehow made me more understanding of my husband's feelings. I'll have to think about how this is happening since I don't really talk about my husband too much.
I'm sorry that therapy has affected your relationship in a negative way Lucie. How has it created difficulty and pain? Cost? Transference?
Interesting thread Lucie!
Stellabystarlight
Posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 23:01:03
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2008, at 22:16:54
Thanks for replying, Dinah. I have noticed from past posts of yours that there seemed to be a good working equilibrium between you, your husband, and your T. I am envious. My DH feels threatened and jealous of my relationship with my T. True, I do feel very close to my T as you probably know from my posts. But the problem is that a couple of years ago, my DH stumbled (sort of)upon some journal entries on my computer. I was in the throes of trying to sort out some pretty intense transference reactions, so you can imagine what he read and thought of that. I can sympathize and wish he had not read them. There's no way he can understand, having never had any real relationship with a T, how these relationships ebb and flow and always seem to be morphing into something else, and so do we. And although I know that I've changed over the years tremendously due to the therapy, and in ways that I think potentially increased the depth of our relationship, including physically - which used to be really an area of difficulty- he doesn't think it's more than what aging would normally do. (Never mind that the older I got, the crazier I got, without treatment.) That hurts, considering how much hard work therapy is. But now he gets obviously resentful even at the mention of therapy. I don't even like to acknowledge when I go, even though of course he knows my appt schedule. I feel caught because he would like me to quit and I don't feel at a place to quit. But it has been six years. It is expensive but fortunately we have pretty good insurance - we pay enough to feel it but are not living on bake sales. (My apologies to those here for whom money for therapy is a big problem - I have been there too in the past, I know how hard it is.) But I know I have been making a lot of important progress in being able to live in my own skin and putting to rest the many ghosts of my past. How can I continue that without therapy? Is that really self-absorption? I am confused and worried. It's really a source of pain and frustration for me and I don't know how things are going to turn out.
Sorry for the long reply. I just really needed to talk about it.
Thanks again, Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 23:16:04
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by stellabystarlight on September 19, 2008, at 22:58:52
Sorry, Stella, our posts crossed. So my answer is in the reply to Dinah, above. I guess I envy you too. You say that your DH (sorry, I don't particularly like that abbbrev but my fingers do get tired of typing!) is psychologically sophisticated but mine is not. That doesn't help. Although he did research transference, and he knows how it can manifest itself, but it hardly reassured him! I too thought at one point that things had improved greatly in our relationship due to transferring positive transference (?). I know it helped a lot in my feelings about men, which were difficult to say the least before I was able to attach to my T.
Anyway, it's tough business. No one's right or wrong, I don't think, it's just tough and hurts and I don't know how it will turn out.BTW I like your way of replying - playwright style. I often get lost with all the >>>>
Posted by stellabystarlight on September 19, 2008, at 23:58:31
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » stellabystarlight, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 23:16:04
Lucie,
Yikes!!! Your husband stumbled upon your journal entries about your transference? No wonder it's causing problems for you and your husband. As psychologically sophisticated as my husband is, he would have a very hard time understanding my intense and passionate transference. I'd better be extra careful about leaving my computer open.
Gosh, I'm sorry Lucie. I can see how your husband's reactions have complicated your therapy. It's hard enough to do therapy without having his feelings to deal with. Have you thought about marriage counseling? Would he be open to it? Maybe a counselor can help your husband work through his insecurities, etc. and help him understand how therapy has helped your relationship.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by Wittgensteinz on September 20, 2008, at 4:13:38
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
How do your partners feel about your long-term therapy?
** For the most he is accepting - but sometimes he asks things like "what exactly does Dr. X do?" - I hate that question because there is no easy answer. He is a psychoanalyst - the interaction is subtle. Sometimes my partner questions about my progress and likewise it's hard to give clear answers - perhaps if I did CBT or something like that, that would be an easier thing to answer. A while ago, he heard from a friend about another therapist who lived nearer by and who specialised in giftedness. He suggested I saw her at the same time as my other T to help me with 'more practical things' as he put it - this upset me as I"m working very hard with my current T. Of course you can only really see one T at once and I am very attached to my T. I'm working through trauma - something more pressing in my opinion than fulfilling my academic potential - my partner knows I had a difficult upbringing but doesn't know too much detail. He's also suggested at one point my switching from the analyst to a CBT therapist because he felt it was taking too long. He sometimes rubs it in that I've seen my therapist more than 100 times - that makes me feel pretty low actually. It's a pity as I am making good progress, just this is a long-term type of therapy and it will take a lot to change things that were so ingrained when I was growing up.
Has your partner met your T?
** Yes, thrice (I posted about this in the thread above)
What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost?
** I pay for my own therapy, although sometimes my partner rubs it in how much it is costing (I see it has a good investment). I think without my T I would probably not have survived the last year. He's also made comments like "I wish I could do what Dr. X can do" - but maybe that was more said in admiration than anything else. He's not aware of my transference toward my T - he knows I'm very attached and doesn't really understand this (but it is something difficult to understand if you haven't been there yourself). I think my child-like dependence and the powerful effect therapy has on me gets to him at times - how I can be upset if I mail and don't hear back and then worry all weekend that my T is mad with me or has died etc. etc. That all said, my partner does his best to support me. I have been in a deep depression for well over a year, and that is no easy thing for him to live with I'm sure.
How has therapy affected your relationship?
** Before I started therapy, I was in such a mess. I had attempted suicide and had then seen a psychiatrist which opened up all my wounds and overwhelmed me. For a long while I had found it extremely hard to leave the house even. Sometimes I couldn't bear light or sound - I would lie in a completely blackened room with a duvet pressed down over my head and ear plugs in to avoid sensory overload. I experienced such extraordinary emotional pain during that time and was desperate. So, the fact that I am now relatively functional, preparing to go back to my studies, has obviously had a big effect on the quality of my relationship. I still have big issues with intimacy but there have been improvements in that department too. I think my partner finds progress too slow, but relatively speaking, I have made big steps forward. I have had set-backs - such as a month ago, and even last week I was in a very bad place, but there is still good progress.
Sorry this was so long!
Witti
Posted by Dinah on September 20, 2008, at 9:46:34
In reply to Partners' feelings, LT therapy, (long-ish) » Dinah, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 23:01:03
I may have made it sound a bit better off than it is.
I think it helps a lot that I'm not sexually or romantically attracted to my therapist. My husband would have a really hard time with that. And while he's not particularly perceptive, I think he might have been able to figure that out. It may be, and I'm not sure about this, that he recognizes my need for a stabilizing parental figure in my life. He certainly knows I can be childish at times. He also knows that I don't feel sexual desire for real people that easily. Movie stars or other two dimensional people, sure. He'd rightfully be astonished if I developed sexual feelings for 3D people.
And I really thank heaven that I can trust my husband to not in any way, actively or passively, violate my privacy. I have no desire to hurt him with thoughts, which don't always reflect my commitment and attachment to my husband.
I suppose I also work at helping my husband accept therapy. I do talk about therapy, sometimes in terms of my psychological issues, but other times in terms of my therapist's upcoming trips, or some observations I have about my therapist. I think it helps my husband to know that I don't think my therapist is perfect, or even more perfect than my husband.
I also do a lot of the work most people have to do with their partners. Greeting him with pleasure when he comes home, trying to stop a day that threatens to degenerate into hostility by consciously changing my stance to one of warmth, stuff like that.
So I think I probably do go out of the way to make sure my husband doesn't have any reason to feel resentment other than the money. Not that that would work with all husbands, so again I'm glad that I have a husband who responds positively to the work I put in.
We have our share of challenges in our marriage. It would be very hard for me if the thing that helps me get through those challenges was itself a problem. So I really am sorry that it's proven to be a problem in your relationship.
Posted by raisinb on September 20, 2008, at 10:31:32
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
I don't have a long-term partner, but I've been dating in and in a few short-term relationships since I've been in long-term intensive therapy.
Boyfriends have had different reactions, mostly good--but their positive reactions were one of the main reasons they reached "boyfriend" level to start with. I've gotten in the habit of revealing my "mental health" status in the first several dates because it acts as a kind of litmus test for potential partners. If they react negatively, I know they won't be able to accept me. Nor do I want to be with someone who can't understand the idea of working on oneself in an intense fashion. I think I ought to be admired for it, so I require it of them :)
One was extremely interested in what went on between me and my T, since he had anger issues himself. I think he also wanted to know what I'd be like in a very intense relationship. I remember him saying, in an intrigued way, "so someday you'll be that open with me?"
My current boyfriend thinks it's great that I'm in therapy and is impressed that I'm open about my craziness. He says most people have these issues, but won't confront or deal with them. Needless to say, that got him a third date.
Posted by rskontos on September 20, 2008, at 13:26:16
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
Lucie,
I think at first my DH was not on board. But I believe he has now seen the positive benefits. Not to mention when I started opening up about my childhood, well let's just say he would rather have someone else deal with all that bad stuff. He had a hard time hearing it. And I did not tell him hardly any of the really really bad stuff. So like I say to JayJ, I believe he is relieved someone else is dealing with all this mental and emotional stuff. He will ask if therapy is going well. I say yes or no depending on the moment.
As far as the money, my t who is also p-doc is not in my network so I have paid alot of out of pocket stuff and he says I am worth it so that is nice. He doesn't mind the money. I told him it was getting expense but he said that is ok. Do what you have to do. When it comes to health he is always for doing the right thing. It took him a while to understand that mental health is important too. He jokes that after I am done with my therapy he will need it because I will be ok and he is not.
As far as jealousy, he has met my t although he and my T did not have a session, my T is very professional and close to retirement age so I don't think he thinks of him as a threat. And he doesn' t understand transference at all. Not that I have that going on yet. I am still at the trying to trust phase.
I was going to therapy at one point three x a week, then 2, now 1. He never said anything about the frequency.
I think overall, he sees good changes. I can handle my emotions so much better now.
I am sorry yours is making it painful and difficult. As if you weren't going through enough.
(((((Lucie)))))))))rsk
Posted by lucie lu on September 20, 2008, at 16:18:06
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by rskontos on September 20, 2008, at 13:26:16
I am really moved by the support and sharing that you've all shown. That's one thing that is so precious about this board - no one else in the world would understand this particular struggle. Like 10der on yesterday's thread, I would like to try to answer everyone individually if I can get the time.
My big fear is that I may have to choose between personal growth and healing, through a really meaningful therapeutic relationship, and my relationship with my DH. The reason I am so attached to my T is that it was such a hard-fought victory to become attached to another human being, period. Like JayJ and many others here, I learned early on to live pretty much entirely within myself, in my own inner world. It really didn't include trusting relationships with other people. Through my relationship with my T, I learned what it is like to feel safe within a personal relationship. And that it can be safe just being me. I'm learning how to recreate all that for myself, but still have a ways to go. I know that kind of safety, what I feel with my T, is sort of artifactual, that real life with real people is much more complicated. But you have to start somewhere and learn what it is you're aiming for. I have learned so much in therapy and I'm not done yet. I often have the feeling now that there is no limit to what I might finally be able to do, things that I never thought remotely possible. But feeling emotionally unsafe is a problem my DH and I have struggled with for years. I'm getting so much better, but still feel that I could get overwhelmed and confused and hurt and would slide right back. It would be all too easy.
Posted by onceupon on September 22, 2008, at 12:59:38
In reply to Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 19:35:24
My husband hasn't commented directly on the duration of my therapy, but he has wondered aloud many times whether I'll ever be done (as I mentioned above).
My husband has not met my current therapist, but had met one of my previous therapists. I hated the experience and felt like I was being ganged up on by both of them. But then again, I was terribly depressed at the time and not thinking too clearly.
I think therapy has influenced my relationship positively and negatively (from my husband's standpoint). I'm much less depressed (good), but much more aware of the problems in our relationship (bad). I confide more in my therapist than I do in my husband, but I think that's more because my relationship with my husband has been on the decline for some time.
I'm curious about those who have posted about therapy contributing positively to their physical relationships with their spouses. I know my husband wishes fervently that therapy would "fix" whatever issue it is I have around physical intimacy. Alas, it has not.
> Since JayJ opened a similar thread, I really wanted to get some feedback on a related issue - how do your partners feel about your long-term therapy? LT therapy can be really hard for partners, especially when the T is the same gender as the partner. Has your partner met your T? What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost? Has your partner asked you to limit or stop your therapy? How has therapy affected your relationship? This is very difficult and painful problem for me.
Posted by DAisym on September 22, 2008, at 23:07:56
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by onceupon on September 22, 2008, at 12:59:38
I'm late to this thread - I've struggled with what it calls up in me.
Many, many (18?) years ago, I went to talk with one of my psych professors about a career change. In addition to teaching, she had a private therapy practice. We talked for awhile about the kind of work I was wanting to do and she astutely said, "It doesn't sound like your husband will be supportive of the demands this work will make of you and your family. Perhaps you should both do some marriage counseling to see if you can figure out if it will work." I think she knew, even then, our relationship had problems. But there was no way he was going to do that, so I let it drop, had another baby and life went on.
When I crashed about 5 years ago, all I wanted was to find a therapist who could fix me enough so that I could resume life the way it was. I had no intention of getting a divorce, even though deep down I think I always knew that this was one of the reasons I was in therapy - to find the courage to leave a bad situation. It took three years but I was finally able to leave. My husband hated my therapist almost from the get-go, without ever meeting him. He called him a "quack" and a bunch of other not-very-nice things. I spent a great deal of time either hiding the fact that I was going, or trying to make it seem like we were working on ways for me to be a better wife. Sex was a huge issue for me and I was learning in therapy to say, "no, I don't like that." Imagine how that went over!
At the end of our marriage, I cried a lot in therapy over "choosing me" instead of him. I felt selfish and like the worse person on earth. My husband to this day, blames therapy for our breakup. When I bring it up, my therapist says he'll accept that blame. He helped me see how destructive things were at home and then he helped me see that I was worth saving - that it was OK to choose me.
I've said more than once that I feel bad that I used therapy to learn how to leave, instead of learning how to live with it. The last time I was struggling with this my therapist said, "when you were a little girl, your mom didn't help you "leave" your dad. It was a bad situation and you needed someone's help. You didn't get it. With your marriage, you needed help to figure out what you wanted and then you needed my support to help you actually leave. Everyone needs support to do the really hard things. That is what I'm here for."
So my husband was probably right to hate my therapy - he knew it would change me and it did. I think that is why so many partners feel strongly about LT therapy - we can't just dismiss their fears and promise that nothing bad is going to happen. Change is what therapy is about. And change, good or bad, is hard for most people.
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 22:47:09
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings, LT therapy, (long-ish) » lucie lu, posted by Dinah on September 20, 2008, at 9:46:34
> I may have made it sound a bit better off than it is.
I don't know about that... I have always been impressed with how well you seem to balance the different relationships, Dinah. Not being attracted to your T is certainly a help, but you are so thoughtful about your therapy I think your husband probably can see pretty clearly what it means to you (and doesn't mean).
> I think it helps a lot that I'm not sexually or romantically attracted to my therapist. My husband would have a really hard time with that. And while he's not particularly perceptive, I think he might have been able to figure that out. It may be, and I'm not sure about this, that he recognizes my need for a stabilizing parental figure in my life. He certainly knows I can be childish at times. He also knows that I don't feel sexual desire for real people that easily. Movie stars or other two dimensional people, sure. He'd rightfully be astonished if I developed sexual feelings for 3D people.
>
We are all childish at times, and need parenting and love and comfort. Your husband must be too, isn't he? And I have had the sense from your posts that you provide some of that to him as well.> And I really thank heaven that I can trust my husband to not in any way, actively or passively, violate my privacy. I have no desire to hurt him with thoughts, which don't always reflect my commitment and attachment to my husband.
Therapy - at least psychodynamic or analysis - is definitely not a shared activity! No one should try to go inside another's head. What would they learn if they could? They are almost bound to find out things they'd rather not have knowledge of ;) Our minds, I'm afraid, can be pretty wild and savage places. Especially when we are thinking about our therapy. So I really wish he had not read my journal. It hurt him unnecessarily, and that is not something I ever wanted to see happen.
> I suppose I also work at helping my husband accept therapy. I do talk about therapy, sometimes in terms of my psychological issues, but other times in terms of my therapist's upcoming trips, or some observations I have about my therapist. I think it helps my husband to know that I don't think my therapist is perfect, or even more perfect than my husband.
>
> I also do a lot of the work most people have to do with their partners. Greeting him with pleasure when he comes home, trying to stop a day that threatens to degenerate into hostility by consciously changing my stance to one of warmth, stuff like that.
>
> So I think I probably do go out of the way to make sure my husband doesn't have any reason to feel resentment other than the money. Not that that would work with all husbands, so again I'm glad that I have a husband who responds positively to the work I put in.
>
> We have our share of challenges in our marriage. It would be very hard for me if the thing that helps me get through those challenges was itself a problem. So I really am sorry that it's proven to be a problem in your relationship.Thanks, Dinah.
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:02:06
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by stellabystarlight on September 19, 2008, at 23:58:31
> Yikes!!! Your husband stumbled upon your journal entries about your transference? No wonder it's causing problems for you and your husband. As psychologically sophisticated as my husband is, he would have a very hard time understanding my intense and passionate transference. I'd better be extra careful about leaving my computer open.Stella, I love your yikes!!! Well put. And yes -watch your computer. Naively I used to think my journal entries were safe in a rather buried directory, but obviously they weren't. I'm not really journaling now but if I did I would do it on-line. It's so important to be able to write your thoughts and know they will remain yours alone. No one else really understands them because are a product of you and the context in which they were written. Anyway, I've taken everything personal off my disk now so I don't have to worry, in the future at least. Although it's a bit late.
> Gosh, I'm sorry Lucie. I can see how your husband's reactions have complicated your therapy. It's hard enough to do therapy without having his feelings to deal with. Have you thought about marriage counseling? Would he be open to it? Maybe a counselor can help your husband work through his insecurities, etc. and help him understand how therapy has helped your relationship.I think marriage counseling would help and I will bring it up. I do think it would help the intimacy between us which in itself would provide him more of a sense of security. I really do love my husband.
Thanks, StellaLucie
> Stellabystarlight
>
>
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:03:57
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?, posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:02:06
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:23:20
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT... (long) » lucie lu, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 20, 2008, at 4:13:38
>
> ** For the most he is accepting - but sometimes he asks things like "what exactly does Dr. X do?" - I hate that question because there is no easy answer. He is a psychoanalyst - the interaction is subtle.That is a really good way of putting it - this type of therapy really is subtle. It would just be incomprehensible to another person, especially if they had never been in therapy.
Are you in analysis or are you just saying that he's an analyst? Do analysts see people in therapies other than classic 4-5x per week analysis? I'm really curious to know how partners would respond to such a large commitment of time and energy. And also whether they could really understand why you would want to do it in the first place, or how it works. Yes - it is subtle. I go twice a week and to my husband that seems like an unnecessarily big commitment.
>**Sometimes my partner questions about my progress and likewise it's hard to give clear answers - perhaps if I did CBT or something like that, that would be an easier thing to answer. A while ago, he heard from a friend about another therapist who lived nearer by and who specialised in giftedness. He suggested I saw her at the same time as my other T to help me with 'more practical things' as he put it - this upset me as I"m working very hard with my current T. Of course you can only really see one T at once and I am very attached to my T. I'm working through trauma - something more pressing in my opinion than fulfilling my academic potential - my partner knows I had a difficult upbringing but doesn't know too much detail. He's also suggested at one point my switching from the analyst to a CBT therapist because he felt it was taking too long. He sometimes rubs it in that I've seen my therapist more than 100 times - that makes me feel pretty low actually. It's a pity as I am making good progress, just this is a long-term type of therapy and it will take a lot to change things that were so ingrained when I was growing up.
100 times? I calculate it as >400 times, although that is over six years. My husband is afraid it will never be over. I know that it will but really can't say when. It's over when it's over and both parties share that realization. Assuming the therapy has a chance to play itself out.
> What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost?
>
> ** I pay for my own therapy, although sometimes my partner rubs it in how much it is costing (I see it has a good investment). I think without my T I would probably not have survived the last year. He's also made comments like "I wish I could do what Dr. X can do" - but maybe that was more said in admiration than anything else. He's not aware of my transference toward my T - he knows I'm very attached and doesn't really understand this (but it is something difficult to understand if you haven't been there yourself). I think my child-like dependence and the powerful effect therapy has on me gets to him at times - how I can be upset if I mail and don't hear back and then worry all weekend that my T is mad with me or has died etc. etc. That all said, my partner does his best to support me. I have been in a deep depression for well over a year, and that is no easy thing for him to live with I'm sure.I think one common worry that partners - who have not been in therapy - have is that they are very uneasy about the dependence they see. My husband thinks that my T has too much influence over me. Sort of like Rasputin.
> How has therapy affected your relationship?
>
> ** Before I started therapy, I was in such a mess. I had attempted suicide and had then seen a psychiatrist which opened up all my wounds and overwhelmed me. For a long while I had found it extremely hard to leave the house even. Sometimes I couldn't bear light or sound - I would lie in a completely blackened room with a duvet pressed down over my head and ear plugs in to avoid sensory overload. I experienced such extraordinary emotional pain during that time and was desperate. So, the fact that I am now relatively functional, preparing to go back to my studies, has obviously had a big effect on the quality of my relationship. I still have big issues with intimacy but there have been improvements in that department too. I think my partner finds progress too slow, but relatively speaking, I have made big steps forward. I have had set-backs - such as a month ago, and even last week I was in a very bad place, but there is still good progress.Goodness, Witti, that sounds horrible! I'm very glad you are feeling better. Sounds like you had an awful time. I would think that he couldn't help but see a major improvement and that it must benefit him as well as you.
> Sorry this was so long!
Not at all... Thanks for sharing.
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:28:04
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by raisinb on September 20, 2008, at 10:31:32
> I don't have a long-term partner, but I've been dating in and in a few short-term relationships since I've been in long-term intensive therapy.
>
> Boyfriends have had different reactions, mostly good--but their positive reactions were one of the main reasons they reached "boyfriend" level to start with. I've gotten in the habit of revealing my "mental health" status in the first several dates because it acts as a kind of litmus test for potential partners. If they react negatively, I know they won't be able to accept me. Nor do I want to be with someone who can't understand the idea of working on oneself in an intense fashion. I think I ought to be admired for it, so I require it of them :)I think it's also worth adding "psychological mindedness" to the test.
> One was extremely interested in what went on between me and my T, since he had anger issues himself. I think he also wanted to know what I'd be like in a very intense relationship. I remember him saying, in an intrigued way, "so someday you'll be that open with me?"
That is wonderful that he made that connection!
> My current boyfriend thinks it's great that I'm in therapy and is impressed that I'm open about my craziness. He says most people have these issues, but won't confront or deal with them. Needless to say, that got him a third date.
Sounds like a keeper :)
Thanks for posting, Raisin.Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 27, 2008, at 23:41:02
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by rskontos on September 20, 2008, at 13:26:16
> Lucie,
>
> I think at first my DH was not on board. But I believe he has now seen the positive benefits. Not to mention when I started opening up about my childhood, well let's just say he would rather have someone else deal with all that bad stuff. He had a hard time hearing it. And I did not tell him hardly any of the really really bad stuff. So like I say to JayJ, I believe he is relieved someone else is dealing with all this mental and emotional stuff. He will ask if therapy is going well. I say yes or no depending on the moment.I think it is really important that the partners be able to recognize that there's been a change, and particularly that it's been to their benefit. That must help a great deal. It must be much harder if the changes are internal. I think the outside changes have been significant over the past 6 years - I think he's not remembering what a mess I was. I think he thinks that I've just "grown out of it." At that time, my life was at a place that was very triggering so I was really hyper-activated. Hardly growing out of it, on the contrary, getting more and more dysfunctional. I think he's forgetting just how unstable I was when I started therapy. But even more than the tangible changes I see have been the internal ones, those that make it much easier for me to live in my own skin and not quite so tortured inside. It is so hard to try to convey how profound the process and its effects have been to someone to whom the whole thing is very foreign.
> As far as the money, my t who is also p-doc is not in my network so I have paid alot of out of pocket stuff and he says I am worth it so that is nice. He doesn't mind the money. I told him it was getting expense but he said that is ok. Do what you have to do. When it comes to health he is always for doing the right thing. It took him a while to understand that mental health is important too. He jokes that after I am done with my therapy he will need it because I will be ok and he is not.
There's a certain element of truth to that, though, isn't there? When one partner changes, the other cannot help but change too. So they change, whether they asked for it or not.
> As far as jealousy, he has met my t although he and my T did not have a session, my T is very professional and close to retirement age so I don't think he thinks of him as a threat. And he doesn' t understand transference at all. Not that I have that going on yet. I am still at the trying to trust phase.
If you're like me, that stage lasted a long time.
> I was going to therapy at one point three x a week, then 2, now 1. He never said anything about the frequency.
>
> I think overall, he sees good changes. I can handle my emotions so much better now.
>
> I am sorry yours is making it painful and difficult. As if you weren't going through enough.Thanks for the post and the hug, rsk :)
Lucie
Thanks
> (((((Lucie)))))))))
>
> rsk
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 0:05:09
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy? » lucie lu, posted by onceupon on September 22, 2008, at 12:59:38
> My husband hasn't commented directly on the duration of my therapy, but he has wondered aloud many times whether I'll ever be done (as I mentioned above).
I hate hearing that too.
> My husband has not met my current therapist, but had met one of my previous therapists. I hated the experience and felt like I was being ganged up on by both of them. But then again, I was terribly depressed at the time and not thinking too clearly.
We went for a while to a counselor and there were times I felt ganged up on from the two of them. But therapy would be worse. Can't help but feel that three's a crowd with psychodynamic-type therapy, since it depends so much on the relationship with the T.
> I think therapy has influenced my relationship positively and negatively (from my husband's standpoint). I'm much less depressed (good), but much more aware of the problems in our relationship (bad). I confide more in my therapist than I do in my husband, but I think that's more because my relationship with my husband has been on the decline for some time.That's the conclusion I've come to also, I'm afraid. And the fact that I confide in my T and not my husband is probably what upsets him the most. I do have intimacy problems (so does he) and it has been very big for me to be able to confide in anyone to the extent I have. I really feel I have to learn these things in a safe relationship (with my T) before I can transfer it to something as complicated as a marriage. In our case, my therapy seems to be driving a wedge between me and my husband, which just makes the problem more acute. A vicious cycle, and one we have to break somehow. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be doing it well on our own, and I can't think of any alternate than to go back to the counselor. More therapy. Doesn't go over big. But if we could get over these problems on our own, why wouldn't we have done so already? We have been married for a long time.
> I'm curious about those who have posted about therapy contributing positively to their physical relationships with their spouses. I know my husband wishes fervently that therapy would "fix" whatever issue it is I have around physical intimacy. Alas, it has not.
Ah yes, well that is really complicated, especially if you have any kind of relevant history. I would imagine that if the presenting problem were intimacy issues and not trauma, then things might improve. But you say that you are now more aware of what isn't working for you in the marriage. I think it would be somewhat unrealistic to expect that your physical relationship would improve under the circumstances. Mine has had its ups and downs. When it's up (no pun intended), it has been very enjoyable. But when it's down, it's almost non-existent. And some of my issues in that area return. There's probably another vicious cycle in there somewhere.
Thanks for your thoughts, onceupon. Sounds like there are some things in common about our situations. I hope we both get some resolution :)
Lucie
> > Since JayJ opened a similar thread, I really wanted to get some feedback on a related issue - how do your partners feel about your long-term therapy? LT therapy can be really hard for partners, especially when the T is the same gender as the partner. Has your partner met your T? What are the issues that have come up between you - jealousy? cost? Has your partner asked you to limit or stop your therapy? How has therapy affected your relationship? This is very difficult and painful problem for me.
>
>
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 0:19:41
In reply to Re: Partners' feelings about your LT therapy?Long, posted by DAisym on September 22, 2008, at 23:07:56
> I'm late to this thread - I've struggled with what it calls up in me.
Sounds like this has been a painful area for you too.
> Many, many (18?) years ago, I went to talk with one of my psych professors about a career change. In addition to teaching, she had a private therapy practice. We talked for awhile about the kind of work I was wanting to do and she astutely said, "It doesn't sound like your husband will be supportive of the demands this work will make of you and your family. Perhaps you should both do some marriage counseling to see if you can figure out if it will work." I think she knew, even then, our relationship had problems. But there was no way he was going to do that, so I let it drop, had another baby and life went on.
>
> When I crashed about 5 years ago, all I wanted was to find a therapist who could fix me enough so that I could resume life the way it was. I had no intention of getting a divorce, even though deep down I think I always knew that this was one of the reasons I was in therapy - to find the courage to leave a bad situation. It took three years but I was finally able to leave. My husband hated my therapist almost from the get-go, without ever meeting him. He called him a "quack" and a bunch of other not-very-nice things. I spent a great deal of time either hiding the fact that I was going, or trying to make it seem like we were working on ways for me to be a better wife. Sex was a huge issue for me and I was learning in therapy to say, "no, I don't like that." Imagine how that went over!I also have felt I needed to keep therapy in the closet, so to speak, even though my husband is all too aware of it and sees right through that. But he doesn't see how our reactions to that dynamic just perpetuate it. I know this is very difficult for him. The reverse might have been true for me too except that I have my own experience with therapy. Even though I would know what he was likely to be feeling when he was going through transference (hypothetically - he's never had regular therapy), I like to think that I'd be able to keep it in perspective. And maybe I wouldn't. Hard to foresee.
> At the end of our marriage, I cried a lot in therapy over "choosing me" instead of him. I felt selfish and like the worse person on earth. My husband to this day, blames therapy for our breakup. When I bring it up, my therapist says he'll accept that blame. He helped me see how destructive things were at home and then he helped me see that I was worth saving - that it was OK to choose me.
The guilt must have been terrible. It can be so hard to take that "I need this for myself" stance, especially when it leads to something like divorce. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
> I've said more than once that I feel bad that I used therapy to learn how to leave, instead of learning how to live with it. The last time I was struggling with this my therapist said, "when you were a little girl, your mom didn't help you "leave" your dad. It was a bad situation and you needed someone's help. You didn't get it. With your marriage, you needed help to figure out what you wanted and then you needed my support to help you actually leave. Everyone needs support to do the really hard things. That is what I'm here for."Your T is so good.
> So my husband was probably right to hate my therapy - he knew it would change me and it did. I think that is why so many partners feel strongly about LT therapy - we can't just dismiss their fears and promise that nothing bad is going to happen. Change is what therapy is about. And change, good or bad, is hard for most people.
>As I said in another post, the partner doesn't really have a choice in changing if you do, and that must feel pretty unfair to them. Changing when they are not motivated to do so or when they feel it's not in their interests must be especially hard for partners.
>
I'm sorry you have had to go through so much, Daisy but I'm really glad you have the T you do.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.Lucie
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