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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by antigua3 on October 18, 2007, at 5:54:05
In reply to Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Daisym on October 17, 2007, at 23:11:55
Great question. I don't like to be touched, except by my kids or my DH when I allow it. I'm a big hugger, though, although I know that doesn't make any sense. I certainly love a good snuggle now and then, but it's always graituitious; it means my DH wants sex.
antigua
Posted by Sigismund on October 18, 2007, at 6:02:11
In reply to Re: Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by antigua3 on October 18, 2007, at 5:54:05
I couldn't imagine physical contact that didn't feel like being on the receiving end of an effort to control.
Terrible state of mind, I think.
Just how you get there and how you get out I have no idea.
Posted by B2chica on October 18, 2007, at 8:27:08
In reply to Re: Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Sigismund on October 18, 2007, at 6:02:11
i'm split.
i like to hold hands with my DH, and i do like to snuggle watching tv, but that usually lasts about 15min, then we both go to our respective chairs/couch cuz he get hot and sweaty and it gets uncomfortable....
and NOOOOO if i could kick him to the corner bedpost in the bed i would be happy! i hate him touching me in bed! hehe he gives me crap about that cuz if its freezing then i want to cuddle close till i get warmed up, then its sianara buddy. but otherwise i want him at LEAST 5 inches away at all times!
we have a queen size bed and its STILL too small!
*************
but other people, well, most of me just doens't like to be touched. period. but i think i bring other parts of me forward with certain people, like my sisters-n-law and my one female friend. cuz they are big huggers. and its ok with them. i like getting hugs from them.
but overall i strongly prefer NOT to be touched. the TOTAL exception is my daughter.
the only thing is my hair, im a little freaky about that...NO ONE touches my hair. its like trust for me i think. if i let them touch my hair..thats the biggest complement they could get, its that i trust them. that's my "your ok, measurement".******************
and just as a side comment. a friend of mine (female) is very much a non-toucher, she doens't like hugs or anything. but i think thats one of the reasons i liked her. i didn't feel that concern of "oh god is she going to want to hug me?" when we first getting to know eachother.
she is Very caring person, she just isnt a touchy feely person. she shows love and care in other ways. NOTHING wrong with that. She's Wonderful.
Posted by Poet on October 18, 2007, at 9:03:39
In reply to Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Daisym on October 17, 2007, at 23:11:55
Hi Daisy,
I tolerate cyber hugs, real hugs, no way. As Sting sings don't stand so close to me.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2007, at 9:09:18
In reply to Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Daisym on October 17, 2007, at 23:11:55
I think there are personal differences, and that's perfectly ok. The important thing is that couples are aware of their partners' preferences. The problem isn't that he's a nonsnuggler. It's that they have a difference in snuggling needs.
I think in that type of situation needs to be addressed with the same eye to compromise that any marital conflict brings.
Is there anything inherently wrong with it? I don't think so. As long as it is what you really like and aren't being stopped by fear.
Moving touch feels quite uncomfortable to me, because it's too stimulating. But warm close non moving touch from someone I feel comfortable with is pleasant. I don't think it's because of any fears of anything going further. I'm the same way with my pets. And I've had some pets who are the same way with me. So I'm thinking it's a natural sort of difference.
I *hate* social touching of any sort. Handshakes, social hugs, social kisses. They all feel intrusive to varying degrees. If I don't feel comfortable with someone I'd rather they didn't touch me at all.
Posted by muffled on October 18, 2007, at 10:54:37
In reply to Re: Snuggler or non-toucher? » Daisym, posted by Dinah on October 18, 2007, at 9:09:18
Posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2007, at 12:02:47
In reply to Re: Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Sigismund on October 18, 2007, at 6:02:11
Well Sigismund how bout a babble hug. Hope it's okay((((((Sigismund)))))))) Phillipa. I myself am a snuggler and hug lots of people I meet if they seem like they need a hug think it comes from working in chemical dependency. The sex part I can do without for now as I need surgery for women's stuff.
Posted by rskontos on October 18, 2007, at 12:04:22
In reply to non touch I think mostly, not sure :-( (nm), posted by muffled on October 18, 2007, at 10:54:37
I hate touching too. I am ok with my children but we aren't all that huggey. Is that a word. Anyway, I am married to a Greek man and his family drives me crazy. They are so huggey and kissey it will send me over the edge. We do air kisses. After 20 years they finally get it but not the other relatives of his. So sometimes I have to grit my teeth and bear it. Now with my side of the family we dont ever hug. But then we are the messed up side on both sides so...the abusive side.
My one good friend is a non-toucher and that is great. We can cry with each other and only rarely will she ever offer to hug me. She knows. She told me just the other day that she had always felt if she pushed I would just disappear. She read me right. So I like that but she is going to move as soon as her house sells. Bummer. I trust her. But still dont want to hug.
I only like to cuddle with my dogs. They are safe. My kids will cuddle with me. I cuddle back because they deserve that. I didn't have it as a kid so I give it too them. But I don't cuddle or snuggle with my H and he does complain some. rk
I don't want hugs or anything with my T. Nope no way not there yet. I don't know if ever would be there.
Posted by Racer on October 18, 2007, at 12:39:35
In reply to Re: non touch I think mostly, not sure :-(, posted by rskontos on October 18, 2007, at 12:04:22
It's ironic -- I hate being touched, but I long for cuddles. It's mostly not about sex, it's more what Sigismund said -- it feels as though touching me is about controlling me. But I long so much to be held, and snuggled, and cuddled. My psychoterrorist and I talk about this, and she thinks that it's about my history, which makes sense...
She thinks that my snuggle-urge comes from having had cats to snuggle with all my life, that my nurturing side was developed by having cats to nurture, that without the cats, I'd be more consistent: not liking touch, and not having the nurture-urge.
Not that that urge does me any good now, and I'm gonna go so I can stop crying.
Posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:01
In reply to I'm a snuggler -- but don't touch me..., posted by Racer on October 18, 2007, at 12:39:35
that so many of us would be "please don't touch me" kinds of people given that we give and get support from an internet board where no touching is possible. Except heart-to-heart, of course.
So the next question is, "is this something to work on changing?" Or do we accept it as who we are. It certainly doesn't feel "socially" acceptable to not want a hug - and sometimes I DO want a hug. *sigh*
Posted by rskontos on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:51
In reply to I'm a snuggler -- but don't touch me..., posted by Racer on October 18, 2007, at 12:39:35
Racer, I don't think you meant it to be funny but I chuckled at the psychoterrorist part. I didn't have too many cats that were as cuddly as my dogs who are sometimes even too needy for me. I guess, sigh I have a long way to go...........this has been a great and interesting thread. rk.
Posted by arora on October 18, 2007, at 13:14:53
In reply to Snuggler or non-toucher?, posted by Daisym on October 17, 2007, at 23:11:55
My family aren't good at hugs or anything like that- it took me a long time to try to get over it, and it still doesn't feel natural. In fact, now the people I still dislike hugging the most are my relatives, (and I'll think about that tomorrow, thank-you Scarlett!)
I HATE social kissing, and have to grit my teeth when I know it's coming, (and the thing is, it's often quite clear that the other person is uncomfortable and hates it too... so WHY do we both force this silly habit on each other?)
As to snuggles- let me anywhere near a puppy and I'm the first on my knees with my nose buried in his neck... aw, hell- now I'm gonna cry, too.
arora
Posted by rskontos on October 18, 2007, at 13:27:18
In reply to Makes sense...., posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:01
DAisym, I dont know if we should work on it. I wouldn't even know how. But it is probably part of the healing thing. Anyone with some insight. DAisym you are a deep thinker I can tell. This is good kind of thinking though...rk :)
Posted by muffled on October 18, 2007, at 13:58:30
In reply to Makes sense...., posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:01
Mebbe its more bout WHY we don't wanna be touched...
Like are we scared?
Do we feel trapped?
Or is it just we like our space.
My son mostly don't like touch.
My daughter craves touch.
I think you born with a certain touch level.
And of course its variable.
One of my ikids would like touch....but she disgusting so noone would. She scared of it too anyways.
I have king sized bed.
I sleep on the very edge.
Sometimes with my leg partly out.
My T tried to hug me once, before she realized I was such a freak. I blanked out. She don't touch me now. She starts to but stops.
I dunno bout touch.
I dunno bout caring.
I dunno nothing.
Posted by Racer on October 18, 2007, at 16:51:34
In reply to Makes sense...., posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:01
>
> So the next question is, "is this something to work on changing?" Or do we accept it as who we are.I think we work on learning how much of it is native to our temperaments, and how much is in reaction to our history. From there, we decide whether we want to work on it, or accept it.
>It certainly doesn't feel "socially" acceptable to not want a hug - and sometimes I DO want a hug. *sigh*As for that, I do sometimes endure "social" hugging, but for the most part I will say no. Loudly, if necessary. Not long ago, someone was coming at me for a hug, and I was saying, "NO!" while others who knew me were also yelling, "NO! Don't touch her!" (This was not someone I knew, I doubt she even knew my name. THAT sort of hug I find particularly creepy.)
There are people I can tolerate touch from, and hugs from -- and even forms of touch I am usually comfortable with. I love having my hair brushed, or even just having my hair stroked. (Although, if anyone here meets me in real life, that only applies to people I already know well enough to be touched by.) Sometimes being touched casually on the forearm sends me into HeebeeJeebeeVille. In other circumstances, having someone pet me between the shoulderblades is fine. It's not about how intimate the area being touched is, nor how well I know the person. In fact, I was touched recently by a heterosexual single man, from behind, and found it was not just OK, but good. From him. Any other man, not necessarily excepting my husband, it would have made me nauseous, as well as sending me into a panic. And I know a few women I can hug fairly easily.
But as for what other people think, I usually make it into a part of my "it's only because I'm insane" persona. I use that to explain certain things that other people think are weird -- "Oh, that? It's only because I'm, you know, insane." It usually works as desired -- it's a joke, so it makes people laugh, WHILE ALSO SHUTTING THEM UP!
I watched my mother recently at a social event, and finally asked her, in a whisper, "Mom, are you uncomfortable with these people hugging you?" She admitted that she was, with most of them. She never hugs me, either. So, I come by it naturally. She also said that one particular man she enjoyed hugging, that he was just a very comfortable person to be hugged by. So, she's got the same sort of "huh, I wonder what it is?" thing where some people can hug her, and others can't.
Another thing I notice about myself, is that I can be the offerer of a hug, but if someone comes to hug me, it's a lot harder. I think it is about control.
I know that my native state is wanting touch, because of the cats. I love it so much when the cats come for a cuddle, so I know that I want to be cuddled. And with my ex, cuddling was good. So, it's finding the comfort zone, I think, rather than an all or nothing thing. Finding what level of touch is OK.
Posted by seldomseen on October 18, 2007, at 19:03:38
In reply to Makes sense...., posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:01
There are volumes of scientific literature indicating that humans are physiologically hard-wired for touch.
Physical touch can induce the release of oxytocin - a natural opiate and "bonding" hormone. A 20 second hug can also lower our blood pressure and heart rate. There can be substantial psychological effects as well - including increased self-esteem and overall wellbeing.
However, humans are so variable and although the preponderance of people are truly physiologically responsive to the touch stimulus, it is entire feasible and very likely that there are some of us that just don't respond. I mean, there are people out there that are absolutely resistant to aspirin, why aren't there those that are resistant to touch on a physiological level. They may just not get the "kick" from it that others do.
I think if there are times that you want a hug, then the resistance might be at a psychological level and not a physical one, and that might be something to explore and work on (I would highly recommend massage therapy). If you just are flatlined when it comes to touch - then that is just who you are.
Just my take.
Seldom.
Posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 19:14:06
In reply to My take on this - for what it's worth., posted by seldomseen on October 18, 2007, at 19:03:38
****Physical touch can induce the release of oxytocin - a natural opiate and "bonding" hormone. A 20 second hug can also lower our blood pressure and heart rate. There can be substantial psychological effects as well - including increased self-esteem and overall wellbeing.
-- Yes, and so can crying. And so can exercise. So I think you are right, humans can meet this need in a variety of ways.
As for massage therapy - I've talked about this with my therapist. He remains worried that I'll have a flashback but is willing to support the idea. But when I think about it, I still want to throw up. A friend of mine is doing "holding" therapy with a trained trauma specialist and she said it is really powerful. All that is held is her head and neck. And she cries the whole time.
What is really interesting is that all of my children are touchy.
Posted by seldomseen on October 19, 2007, at 2:28:47
In reply to Re: My take on this - for what it's worth., posted by DAisym on October 18, 2007, at 19:14:06
I was definately in the "throw up" category when it came to massages. I even commented that it sounded like torture to me.
Of course all my friends looked at me like I was crazy as a nuthouse mouse. But whatever...
So one day I was at this festival, where a massage therapist was giving away free 5 minute chair massages (Sitting up in a chair, fully clothed, lots of people around). So I was basically thrown into the chair by my friends. I tolerated the massage okay. The "wow" moment came when I stood up and was amazed at how much better I felt.
Someone then suggested a stone massage. It's basically where they put warm stones on the tension spots on your body. It can be coupled with a touch massage, but I was like "No way Jose, just the rocks please and thanks".
It was lovely. I think the rocks mimic the warmth of hands, but are safe you know?
So I had 30 or 40 of those (It took that many to get me used to the room, the therapist etc...).
Then I was like "I'm going for it" and had the full on treatment. It's turned into a real treat.
Now, I will admit, that I'm still way jumpy when a total stranger wants to give me a hug, put I can tolerate a pat on the back every know and then as long as I see it coming.
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on October 19, 2007, at 8:51:10
In reply to Re: My take on this - for what it's worth. » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on October 19, 2007, at 2:28:47
I've been thinking about this a little because touch has been important in my life.
for example, I've had a massage, but never would again.Too triggering.
also, this may sound funny, but I really don't like anyone touching my hair. I have a huge fear of getting my hair cut because of all the touching. I've worked through most of it because I always go to the same person, so I've gotten used to her. But, for me, my hair played a big role in my csa. It became a symbol of the csa because semen would end up in my hair. I got a huge knot that nobody could get out and it was a physical representation of everything that was wrong, and I wondered why my mother couldn't see it! A family friend got the knot out and my hair was cut short just before kindergarten. It was a huge releif, but I still don't like anyone touching my hair, but I've learned to tolerate it.
I also hate, hate, when people stand too close to me in line when I'm shopping. It drives me up a wall.
antigua
Posted by Racer on October 19, 2007, at 10:59:54
In reply to Touch maybe csa trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 19, 2007, at 8:51:10
>
>
> also, this may sound funny, but I really don't like anyone touching my hair. I have a huge fear of getting my hair cut because of all the touching.That's funny, because I love having my hair touched, it's very comforting to me. (Although I'm not so fond of having it cut lately, but that's trouble finding a good hairdresser...)
What I can't stand are my breasts -- the focus of my abuse. I hate the way they feel, hanging there when I don't have a bra on. I have always hated it when they were touched or kissed during sex. I hate having someone touch me from behind. I really hate being held from behind when I'm standing up. If someone touches me a certain way from behind, it can leave me quivering and shaking and crying. What's that you ask? Ah, yes, as a matter of fact, that is the central memory for me -- being grabbed from behind, with my arms pinned, and fighting like hell to get away. And not being able to. That, for me, is my central memory -- nothing about anything else that happened, just the part about fighting to get away from him while he had my arms pinned from behind.
>
> I also hate, hate, when people stand too close to me in line when I'm shopping. It drives me up a wall.That makes me nuts, too. I live in an area with a lot of Asians, people from cultures where personal space is different from most Western countries. I get crowded in line all the time, and it's awful. I've moved away from some people in lines, only to have them move closer to me again. Now my husband and I do the shopping on Sundays, so there's more room because he's usually behind me in line. Before we started shopping together, I sometimes left the line because of the crowding. I'd just get my stuff back into my cart and leave the line -- and get right back in at the end, so that I'd have space again!
I'm sorry that those things happened to you, Antigua. You deserved much better than that.
Posted by Poet on October 19, 2007, at 13:19:49
In reply to Touch maybe csa trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 19, 2007, at 8:51:10
I can't stand people standing or even sitting close to me. I go to movies at odd hours so no one is sitting anywhere near me (husband and friends are exceptions.) It's more of a sensory defensive issue than CSA.
My husband is a massage therapist and other than the hot stone massage I've never had one with hands touching my body. I don't think what is supposed to relax me would just provoke anxiety. That is a CSA trigger issue.
Poet
Posted by B2chica on October 19, 2007, at 13:44:01
In reply to Touch maybe csa trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 19, 2007, at 8:51:10
hey antigua...i don't know if you read by i have REAL issues with my hair being touched...i'm not sure why i guessed its a trust thing cuz there are only three people that i can think of that i would let touch my hair...
i get REALLY freaked out about it. that is a MAJOR "NO-NO" with me. so i understand that part.except that if i'm really upset i always wish someone would just brush my hair. i've only asked my DH to do it. once in a while he'll do it. but never very long.
and about standing in line at store...aw man i HATE THAT!! i get a little freaked so i've started to put cart behind me. that way i control how close i am to person in front of me and person behind is actually behind my cart....
Posted by DAisym on October 19, 2007, at 14:49:55
In reply to Touch maybe csa trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 19, 2007, at 8:51:10
I'm in the "don't pull my hair -ever!" crowd. My children learned as infants to not grab handfuls of hair. I'm guessing it was the look on my face.
But I think I'd like someone brushing my hair. I love having it washed by the person who cuts it - but she is really safe. I'll have to think about this more.
I think the hair pulling aversion came from the same place, antigua. It was part of the physical violence and I remember being desperate for short hair. My mom would sit every Sunday and comb out the snarls. It was torture and I wasn't allowed to cry - "If you'd take care of your hair, I wouldn't have to do this..." Makes me shudder to think about it. It was finally cut short in first grade.
I'll keep thinking about massages. It is another thing I feel like I'm broken around. For now, I'll keep using Racer's suggestion of feline massage. You put them on your lap, feel their warmth and their weight and they purr and everyone is happy.
Posted by RealMe on October 20, 2007, at 11:16:53
In reply to Re: I'm a snuggler -- but don't touch me..., posted by rskontos on October 18, 2007, at 13:12:51
This is a very difficult topic for me as I have recently longed for cuddling and holding hands. My husband is one of those who never liked to hold hands.
Then there are the times when I feel like don't touch me, and so it got me to thinking. Don't touch me means I don't trust you and what you might do to me, and so I can see how it could be confusing to my husband. Sometimes touch, and sometimes don't touch.
Sometimes my T gets too close to me when I am leaving therapy and he is opening the door. Then other times I wish I could get a hug. The damn CSA really messes with me, and I am trying to deal with all this as are others. Right now I am more in touch with the sense of feeling so lonely and alone as a child and later, no one to turn to except you know who. Sex and hugs got so mixed up. All I can say for now. I hate being in touch with the sense of aloneness, not emptiness, just aloneness even around people.
RealMe
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2007, at 12:20:48
In reply to Re: I'm a snuggler -- but don't touch me..., posted by RealMe on October 20, 2007, at 11:16:53
*****Don't touch me means I don't trust you and what you might do to me,
-- What if it means, "I don't trust myself and how I might react to your touch" ?
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