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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 22:40:26
In reply to Re: meltdown » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on August 27, 2006, at 21:45:22
Sunny>>>>It's not your concern how he feels, even if you think it is.
I know - I think. I warned him in the beginning that I'd wreck him. I told him that I infect people, and he said that that would never happen. And now I'm being forced to do something that will make that all come true. He was not like this a year ago. I want him to tell me what I did. I need to know or I'll keep doing it. I ruined him as a T. I want him to hit me instead of love. Caring was good, but he made it gross now.
(((((caraher))))) You are a nice man. I know that much. I believe you when you say that you won't dislike me if I don't leave him. But if I stay I will be disgusted -- you'd think that would be enough. Why is he not like you? I'm not afraid of you. ...this is just like before. I have to calm down.
LL: I would never use them as weapons but I do have every paper letter he's sent, and the poems on copies of his legal documents, and pages and pages of Email Subject lines. I don't think that he understands that what he's sent me, or how he's spoken to me, is wrong -- I didn't think it was strange (in a bad way) until really recently.
I've never thought about physical pain the way you described it. It is hard to remember when it's worst, but I forget that it sometimes has a purpose.
I WILL email the counsellor tomorrow. My coverage only lasts until Sept 1st but maybe she knows someone outside of the university. I'm so scared. I mean, I'll do it, but I can't stop thinking about trying those two other times. If it happens again I'll just die. I don't know what in the world I'll say but I'll send her a message before I go, IF I go, tomorrow. And I just saw your other message, and I'd love to have a cat right now. I can't stop saying I'm afraid.
I'll try and sleep tonight but I doubt it. I want to throw up from nerves. I can't stand tomorrow -- I don't want it to come. My eyes are sore.
thinking of you all, EL
Posted by happyflower on August 28, 2006, at 4:01:31
In reply to Sunny, Caraher, LL, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 22:40:26
Hi Elaine,
I know I haven't been around much, but I felt I just had to say something when I read your post. Everyone has said what I think also of your T. But I realize the horrible postition you are in.
Sometimes "bad love" feels good especially because of the past you have experienced. It is hard to let go of someone who seems to care about you especially since they seem to be the only one in this world you feel you can count on.
I too feel alone, and sometimes my T is the only one I can confide in. It makes me feel so pathetic at times. But I am slowly learning other people care about me and maybe I could trust to confide in a couple of people. But it has taken a long time to get that far.
I am really worried about what your T is doing to you, it is so wrong. He really isn't your T anymore, so you do need to try to find another one. You need someone for YOU. It is suppose to be about you, you are worthy, you will be okay, and you will prevail above all of this, because I see your strengh. ((((((Elaine)))
Posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 9:12:55
In reply to (((((((Elaine))))))), posted by happyflower on August 28, 2006, at 4:01:31
You are sooooo brave, Elaine. Sending you lots of strength and good wishes for whatever you choose to do. I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you to do. But you CAN do it. I think emailing the counselor is a good idea, I really really hope she helps you. You are doing a great job, just keep trying. ((((ElaineM)))
sunnydays
Posted by annierose on August 28, 2006, at 16:47:02
In reply to (((((((Elaine))))))), posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 9:12:55
I've been thinking of you and hope you are safe.
Annierose
Posted by Tamar on August 28, 2006, at 17:30:42
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
Whatever happens... and whatever you do... and whatever you decide... we're *always* going to be here for you.((((((((((Elaine))))))))))
Posted by llrrrpp on August 28, 2006, at 19:12:08
In reply to We love you, Elaine » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on August 28, 2006, at 17:30:42
Posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
In reply to Me love you too Elaine. Love, lurps (nm), posted by llrrrpp on August 28, 2006, at 19:12:08
happy, annie, sunny, tamar, lurp -- you guys are so nice. You make me braver.
I'm so exhausted from yesterday AND today. After I made my last post last night, I decided that I would email the counsellor before I went to bed, while I was still really worked up, so I wouldn't chicken out. So I did. I must've sounded crazy. It's embarassing to read now cause it sounds like I was still posting on here. Like, I said sorry to the poor woman a bunch of times. Told her that she didn't HAVE to respond if she didn't want to. (so dumb, It's not like it's even about her wanting or not wanting) I told her to forgive me cause I was nervous and that I was probably being silly. I was sooo afraid to send it. ANd when I checked this morning this was waiting, titled "Autoreply":
Your message has been filed for future reading.
I am out of the office due to family emergency. Please call the front desk for immediate assistance at #. You can also call the 24 hour ********* Rape Crisis centre at #. I will return messages when I am able.
Sorry for any inconvenience.I read it like a hundred times thinking it must be a mistake -- I wanted to scream "Are you kidding me". I was really upset and thought, This is a sign, just like before, I'm just not supposed to do this. And I got ready to go and see my T to see if I could fix stuff, or have him yell, or whatever he was going to do. But then I checked my mail once more closer to lunchtime to read help from you all, and the woman had sent a real reply. So, I guess her emergency was before the weekend. She was really nice sounding and said she understood that I'd be scared to speak in person, especially if I had been turned away from there before (she works in the first place, where the guy said that they didn't deal with problems like mine). She said that she could only see me once (because I'm not a registered student since I've graduated) but that maybe we could figure out something else for me. So she offered me a bunch of times to pick from and said she'd get back to confirm. I didn't hear from her yet about the confirmation. But I asked for Friday. The other day was on Sept7th and that seemed too far away.
I'm scared to go back there, but I'm scared all the time. She was a nice lady too. She even said that just because I wasn't physically or sexually assaulted doesn't mean that I don't deserve to speak to someone. The only thing I didn't do (and I feel really guilty about it) was warn her that the person I'd be talking about is my T. I've learned that other professionals are very uncomfortable with the subject. As soon as I mentioned it to the Psych Services pdoc she ended the intake interview right away. I don't have much options now, but I'm afraid to be letdown again.
I did go to my session too. I was shaking when I came in. He didn't even ask for an update like he usually does. He gave me a five page print out -- he read it outloud as I followed along. He told me that he's concerned that I've made the sessions mirror my regular life where nothing gets done, and I don't try, and only bide my time existing. And he kept on about how I must give an answer, even though I was. I was explaining that I didn't know what to say, that I was confused and afraid, but he couldn't get it. He kept saying I wasn't answering. And he wrote alot about how he doesn't like feeling that he has to "entertain me" during sessions. He was upset that I don't come with my journal to read to him anymore and that by not bringing him my writing I'm throwing away my responsibility to create sessions. He said there were three of us in this relationship: him, me and my anxiety. And that I let anxiety control us. I need to do more and he spoke of using alcohol and ativan to silence Anxiety so WE could do what we wanted together. He said that even though I've said that I only want to be pleasing, that I still don't follow through with what he says he wants us to do -- like movies and theater and sailing. Mainly he kept saying how uncomfortable I've made him, that his expression of love was a "cry for help" for me to give him more connection to make him feel better inside.
I just kept trying to explain myself. I told him that he was being unfair by putting me incharge of everything. I was super scared but I said it. I said that I was supposed to be dysfunctional, that HE was the doctor. I didn't say it mean though -- kinda quietly. He was a bit upset and said that he can't help having the same character flaws as me -- like too much sensitivity, and anxiety. It's true -- he's a human too.
I'm not as scared right now. He only held my hand the whole time and pet my arms. Which I guess is okay. Not really, but better than something worse. I don't know how to structure my sessions. What do regular people talk about? He said I made him change his way of being, but now I'm drawing back, and it makes him antsy when we meet. I don't know, I'm tired. I don't want to ever be so scared again.
I love you guys, I need you so much. I hope the Counsellor gives me the Friday appointment. I miss my LadyDoctor so much. (((((everyone))))))
EL
Posted by Fallsfall on August 28, 2006, at 20:31:24
In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
Elaine,
If he gave you a copy of the printout, you should bring it with you on Friday.
Best of luck,
Falls
Posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 20:44:38
In reply to Re: Today » ElaineM, posted by Fallsfall on August 28, 2006, at 20:31:24
Good job, Elaine. I'm so proud of you. Try to bring as much as you can to show the lady on Friday. And what your T said just confirms for me that you need to get out of that relationship as soon as you can. Any T that would suggest alcohol as a way to calm anxiety is irresponsible at best. That's how some people get addicted to alcohol is using it as a way to numb their emotions. Good job for making that appointment. I can't say more because I'm a little out of it from my T appointment. It was very intense - I might be joining a trauma group, which I'm nervous about. But he's really trying to help me learn to set boundaries and see what's normal, and I could really see he cares about me today. (((((((Elaine))))))) Good job.
sunnydays
Posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:53:49
In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
I'm proud of you for reminding him that HE is the "doctor." Sure he has his own frailties, but in this case they mean he needs to find another line of work (since evidently they prevent him from maintaining a healthy therapeutic relationship with you).
I, too, hope you get the Friday appointment. You need help from sources other than us and your "T."
Actually, your T did make an insightful observation when he challenged your statement that you "only want to be pleasing." The fact is that you have not done everything your T wants you to do. That's GOOD! Somewhere inside, you know there are things you don't want to do and have found ways not to do them. Perhaps you can build on that knowledge and slowly re-establish more normal boundaries. Maybe something as simple as asking him not to stroke your arms... though I'd recommend getting away from him entirely if at all possible!
If he wants you to take charge of sessions, perhaps you ought to write about the ways he's being unfair to you, and stick to that topic no matter how much he tries to change it. Point out the ways in which he exploits your ill health, poor family support and fear of being alone to pressure you into being what he wants you to be and doing what he wants you to do. Remind him yet again that it is he as your T with a special responsibility toward you, and not vice-versa.
Maybe that would be WAY too hard for you! I totally understand if it is. But I wish you the strength to do at least something to stand up to him.
(((El)))
Posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:56:35
In reply to Re: Today, posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 20:44:38
Adding to what sunnydays said... usually it's advised not to mix alcohol and ativan. The combination can make you dizzy, clumsy, light-headed... I'm sure you need THAT! It sounds like your T is asking you to take your own homebrew "date r*pe drug..." strictly so you can do what "WE" really want.
Posted by frida on August 28, 2006, at 22:01:09
In reply to Re: Today, posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:53:49
Dear Elaine,
I don't think I've posted to you before but I've been reading and what you've just shared really makes me afraid for you.
I hope your appt on Friday can bring you some relief. This is not the way T should be. :-(
No T should suggest using alchohol as a way to handle anxiety..that truly makes me feel worried for you. And everything he's saying about what *he* wants..and just how he's making you feel...
Please be careful..I hope you can tell the woman you'll be seeing on Friday.
you need a safe , supportive T ...I hope she can help you find one...and I hope you can tell her what's going on.
YOu can do this, there is support out there....
good therapists...safety..Please know you are not alone
Frida
Posted by muffled on August 28, 2006, at 22:30:55
In reply to Re: Today, posted by frida on August 28, 2006, at 22:01:09
I could say stuff.
But others have said it.
My dam telephone/internet was down, just got fixed today.
Just read this today.Now.
Scarey.
But the thing that leapt out at me out of this is HOW absolutely amazing and kind and brave and determined you are.
OMG, I would be so paralyzed.
I think in the grand scheme of life, that there's a job for you to do, once you have gotten things in your life together.
You have so much to offer.
To help others.
You are so amazing.
And horrible though this whole thing is, you are learning SO much.
And kindly allowing us to join you in this journey.
And already helping others who are undoubtedtly reading your posts, but too afraid to say anything.
Your life is hard right now.
But thru this you will be able to help SO many people in future.
I can feel this is a strong gift that you have.
I send you hugs, and I am with you all the way.
You are so NOT disgusting, you are AMAZING.
I'm so, so sorry bout your T.
It does sound as if he has some issues which are beyond what you can help him with at this time.
Proly the best thing may be for you guys to not see each other for awhile. No contact in any way.
There seems to be some kindness in him, he just needs help from someone more qualified.
And if he proves obsessive, it would be helpful to have a qualified T on your side.
The woman you have contacted sounds wonderful really.
Let her help you. Let her help you find someone. Its ok to lean on people a bit sometimes when you've got nowhere else to turn.
Wish I could do more.
Dunno where you live, and you are wise to keep your privacy on the internet.
Your amazing El.
Please don't hesitate to post and let us know whats happening.
Muffled
Posted by llrrrpp on August 29, 2006, at 5:07:42
In reply to (((((((((((((((((((((((((El))))))))))))))))))))))), posted by muffled on August 28, 2006, at 22:30:55
El,
you are showing yourself to be so strong through this incredible ordeal. A lesser person would have given in already, but you are fighting the romantic entanglement. Even though you're going to your appts, your T is sensing that you're not a willing participant in this particular relationship, and he's getting desparate. Well, stay strong. Remember to listen to your feelings. If you only wanted to be punished, you would have submitted a long time ago. I think you are learning what true love is, in the cruelest way possible- by counterexample. If your T loved you the way you deserved, you wouldn't be scared of him, and he wouldn't be manipulating you. Nope. His "love" for you is completely one-sided, selfish, and self-destructive.You always say stuff about how you're afraid you'll "infect" people. Well, think about all the therapeutic relationships you've had to date-- the people who treated you kindly in your treatment, and in particular your ladydoc. You haven't infected them, and you haven't infected us either.
I think it's much more likely that your current "T" has infected you with a sense of doubt and insecurity, in order to weaken you to a point where you will be dependent on him for every single decision you make. You are wise to resist.
Here's some more support for the strength you need this week. count me in, I'm on Team Elaine.
-ll
Posted by sunnydays on August 29, 2006, at 9:12:55
In reply to Re: (((((((((((((((((((((((((El))))))))))))))))))), posted by llrrrpp on August 29, 2006, at 5:07:42
How're you doing? I hope you're alright.
sunnydays
Posted by ElaineM on August 29, 2006, at 9:43:11
In reply to Re: (((((((((((((((((((((((((El))))))))))))))))))), posted by llrrrpp on August 29, 2006, at 5:07:42
I just heard from the woman and she said I can come on Friday -- it's right after my T appointment (which I have to go to. I just do) She said she doesn't like that I'm not really a student anymore, but she can't turn people away (that's why she said she'll see me at least once). I don't think she can turn anyone away - even someone off the street who's never been in the school, I think she must try and at least connect them to the appropriate resources. I wish soooo much that I had the money to buy more school. I could stay with this woman AND get to keep LadyDoctor (who I miss so much it feels like lead in my stomach). I want safe people who don't hate me in my life :-( I am glad that I didn't take T's money cause it would take me forever to pay back, but I wish I had it from somewhere else.
I'm going to do a group answer and group hug
((((((((((((((((((Falls, Sunny, Caraher, Frida[nice to meet you :-)], Muffly, Lurp))))))))))))))))))))I think that my T wanted me to drink more because that's the way I was in the past -- before I was concerned that alcoholic drinks were calories. I drank to deaden the anxiety a little, and let me not care what was happening to me, or around me -- stuff like that. He probably wanted me to do it more again cause nothing else had worked with me. I tried drinking some recently and, I guess from being on so much antibiotics, and the infection being all through my head and neck, I was unable to tolerate anything. One glass and I started having the worst headache ever. It was too hard with all the vertigo I was already having.
But to be fair, I don't think he meant for me to combine the two -- more like one or the other. He's wanted me on heavy doses of (and I'm gonna spell this wrong) sublingual ativan, but I told him I was already nervous taking T3's -- I don't like meds so I'm not too worried, but I was severely anorexic at one point, and I worry about having an addictive personality (though I don't think I do, cause I really do have a fear of pills). But anyways, I don't think he would hurt me that way, by saying to mix the two.
I do tell him my worries. I told him that he has to forgive me because he's expecting me to change all my feelings, my entire way of thinking, in one week -- just because he announced his feelings. I said it wasn't fair. But I still say everything to him nicely -- I still care about him when I'm not afraid.
I think I'm only resisting now because I feel that everything is about to blowup in my face. I feel like he's going to leave me first, and so I'm being panicky and deviant. And incase I haven't sounded super-slutty already, I fear that I would've already acquiesed if this board wasn't part of my life. I don't think I would've thought twice -- my brain would've been like, Stop thinking, who cares, what's the point in deciding if something feels right or wrong. I mean, I still struggle with that every day. Already I'm wondering if I over-reacted. It hit me last night that I re-write stuff the exact same way as my parents (the way they are doing with my brother now). It's hard. I've been like this my whole life -- it is hard to turn off. I'm used to forgetting the past (most of it has erased anyways), not thinking of a future (because I don't feel I have one that will include anything but pain), and forgetting about the present the momment it happens. Like, you get hit...poof, It didn't happen, right? Don't worry, you're fine....[I don't think I'm explaining well]something like that anyways...oh well.
I guess I'm just saying that it will be hard to go Friday. Aside from the fact that I let others control conversations so much that I end up getting confused about what I really thought, and wanted to say, myself. I'm so intimidated by T's and Pdocs and Physicians. But she was nice and I will show up.
I'm so glad that you are all helping me. And that you know bad stuff about me and still think I'm okay. I love you all.
((((((Babblers)))))))EL
Posted by pegasus on August 29, 2006, at 10:25:27
In reply to I heard from her., posted by ElaineM on August 29, 2006, at 9:43:11
Elaine,
That's great that you can see her on Friday. Maybe you can print out your last post to take to her? And maybe some of your other posts here? That way if you get confused, and don't know what to say, you can just give her the posts.
I also agree that if your T has given you anything in writing, you should take that. Or at least take the post where you described what he wrote to you. It seems like that would help explain things.
Good luck!
p
Posted by muffled on August 29, 2006, at 11:01:14
In reply to I heard from her., posted by ElaineM on August 29, 2006, at 9:43:11
> I just heard from the woman and she said I can come on Friday -- it's right after my T appointment (which I have to go to. I just do) She said she doesn't like that I'm not really a student anymore, but she can't turn people away (that's why she said she'll see me at least once). I don't think she can turn anyone away - even someone off the street who's never been in the school, I think she must try and at least connect them to the appropriate resources. I wish soooo much that I had the money to buy more school. I could stay with this woman AND get to keep LadyDoctor (who I miss so much it feels like lead in my stomach). I want safe people who don't hate me in my life :-( I am glad that I didn't take T's money cause it would take me forever to pay back, but I wish I had it from somewhere else.
***Whoooah! One step at a time :-)
Glad you have found a caring person!
Hopefully she'll be able to connect you with someone who is good.
You do need some decent help to get yourself organized.
You, not surprizingly given your history, have some distorted thots bout yourself. I only say this from my own personal actaul experience.
I used to think I was a leper and infected others too.
That there was bad in me and I wanted to tear it out.
But I don't anymore! Not mostly anyhow.
Its an awfully nice thing.>
> I'm going to do a group answer and group hug
> ((((((((((((((((((Falls, Sunny, Caraher, Frida[nice to meet you :-)], Muffly, Lurp))))))))))))))))))))***THANKS ((((EL))))
>
> I think that my T wanted me to drink more because that's the way I was in the past -- before I was concerned that alcoholic drinks were calories. I drank to deaden the anxiety a little,***A huge amt. of people 'self-medicate' with alcohol.
Mebbe better to find the right medication. Cuz for some reason alcohol seems to go wrong so often. Its not good as a medication really IMHO. (but then I am an alcoholic!!!)
(a DRY one)
> But to be fair, I don't think he meant for me to combine the two -- more like one or the other. He's wanted me on heavy doses of (and I'm gonna spell this wrong) sublingual ativan, but I told him I was already nervous taking T3's --***Sounds like you could use a good meds. person too.
Heavy doses of ativan seems a bit odd too? There are better non-addicting meds for anxiety.> I do tell him my worries. I told him that he has to forgive me because he's expecting me to change all my feelings, my entire way of thinking, in one week -- just because he announced his feelings. I said it wasn't fair. But I still say everything to him nicely -- I still care about him when I'm not afraid.
***Your amazing EL. Sometimes you let people walk on you, but these days you seems to have found a a streak of strength. good on ya!
That last sentence kinda fits old patterns. But I think you know that. So I say no more.
>
> I think I'm only resisting now because I feel that everything is about to blowup in my face. I feel like he's going to leave me first, and so I'm being pancky and deviant.***I think your resisting now, cuz the strong El thats inside you, isn't gonna take the sh*t no more. YES, the sh*t may well fly. But the strong El that has emerged WILL survive and be all the stronger.
But back up is good. Don't be afraid to keep looking for help from others.
Also, O wouldn't describe your behavior as deviant. Its just expected behavior given the circumstances.And incase I haven't sounded super-slutty already, I fear that I would've already acquiesed if this board wasn't part of my life. I don't think I would've thought twice -- my brain would've been like, Stop thinking, who cares, what's the point in deciding if something feels right or wrong. I mean, I still struggle with that every day. Already I'm wondering if I over-reacted.
***You are not slutty. I find you most UNSLUTTY.
I'd just say you as a little girl got all mixed up, and DESPITE that, you amazingly still obvo. have a strong morality inside.
Once again. You amaze me El.It hit me last night that I re-write stuff the exact same way as my parents (the way they are doing with my brother now). It's hard. I've been like this my whole life -- it is hard to turn off.
***Ah, good fodder for T sessions! YYou have some good insights.
I'm used to forgetting the past (most of it has erased anyways), not thinking of a future (because I don't feel I have one that will include anything but pain), and forgetting about the present the momment it happens. Like, you get hit...poof, It didn't happen, right? Don't worry, you're fine....[I don't think I'm explaining well]something like that anyways...oh well.
***Mebbe you dissociate. Kinda sucks until you get a handle on it. Then its not so bad.
Last T session I had, I COULDN'T dissociate, and I WANTED to. Go figger eh!
>
> I guess I'm just saying that it will be hard to go Friday. Aside from the fact that I let others control conversations so much that I end up getting confused about what I really thought, and wanted to say, myself. I'm so intimidated by T's and Pdocs and Physicians. But she was nice and I will show up.***Good for you, and your strong sense of self preservation, that has got you this far so far!
>
> I'm so glad that you are all helping me. And that you know bad stuff about me and still think I'm okay. I love you all.
> ((((((Babblers)))))))
>
***We ALL got our badshit, BELEIVE me. All humanity does.
But I think you are SO cool. If I was a T, I would find you a wonderful, interesting, and yes!, perhaps challenging at times, client ;-)((((El))))
Thanks for keeping us in the loop at this difficult time.
We DO care, and are thinking of you.
Sorry if this is a little dumb, but my IRL kids keep intrrupting.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by caraher on August 29, 2006, at 12:40:49
In reply to Re: I heard from her., posted by muffled on August 29, 2006, at 11:01:14
I'm glad you can see her Friday. Remember that you're not at all slutty or disgusting or bad - you're a very, very good person who has had a lot of bad things happen to her!
(((El)))
Posted by ElaineM on August 30, 2006, at 15:52:15
In reply to Re: I heard from her., posted by caraher on August 29, 2006, at 12:40:49
Thanks Peg, Muffly, and Caraher - you keep me on one path (as much as possible).
I feel like cr@p today -- sooo guilty. I got another letter today. He has no idea that any of this is happening. He thinks so much of me, he apoligized for putting me on the spot with that "scary" email. I'm going to ruin him. Regardless if he is a T, he is still a person, and I'm going to take all his good feelings and hurt him with them. I hate myself so much I can't stand it. He only wants me to know how real people relate and feel for each other. How can I take the only good feelings a real person has for me and throw them away like garbage - or as though I had an abundance of others who cared. How can do it? how.
I will go and see this woman cause she was nice enough to work out a time for me, but I think I'm done with T's. It was hard enough having my heart broken by leaving LadyT and Doc -- but even then I only came out feeling alone and sad. Only?! This time I feel evil on top of everything else - nevermind, even more alone than before. I HATE MYSELF. I wish I was gone. I keep preparing myself in my head about what Friday will be like, and I'm gonna be sitting there saying things that will hurt him, while he'll be somewhere else thinking loving thoughts. WHY! And today was the anniversary of a death in my family and he was so nice about it. He even asked me to read him the eulogy I wrote a year ago, and he said that I sounded like I definately loved this person. I did -- one of the few people in the world I'm sure that I actually loved, for real. I was so relieved to know that I could sound like that because I worry that I don't know what any kind of love is. And I was glad that he could tell just from my words. I get afraid when I don't think that my brain understands love -- only fear, sadness, and pain. I asked T how people can move on (like forget specific details and memories) and he said only by papering over the bad stuff with new good things, and new love. That's why my life is so full of despair! I don't have new people in my life, I only keep losing the family members I do have. I will never be able to forget then! I need more Grandpa's. It will always seem like yesterday. It will always be right behind my eye lids whenever they close! Ahhhhh. What will I do?
I'm sorry (for being like this and apoligizing all the time). I don't know what else to do. I've been crying all day. Everytime it stops, something reminds me again and I start all over. I do want someone to love me. I want love alot - I've had too long without! Why is it T? Does it matter. Why should I be so picky. Ugly girl. Stupid. Crazy. Others have been worse to me, and got more. Oh. Why is this happening? I can't take it. I want to email LadyT, but I don't want to kill her too. This woman Friday is going to think I'm an idiot. A stupid grown-up/child who acts like a baby. And I'm afraid of seeing the man at the desk again. I know he won't remember me cause it's been almost two months, but I'll remember him.
I feel so stupid. I hope I don't cry infront of her, cause tears are stupid and ugly like me. I don't want this to be happening like this. I am so confused -- I'm afraid and not, wanting to hide from and run to him, want someone to take me away and also be alone, and want someone to love me and also hurt me. I want to die. And on top of everything, I had a disgusting binge today and I've only ever had two in my life before (when I was in the 80 range). It's gross -- guess I'm definately (obviously) not anorexic anymore :-( I want someone to shoot me with a tranquilizer.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:17:00
In reply to meltdown **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 30, 2006, at 15:52:15
Oh Elaine-
you are so human. You can feel love. You know what it is. T can't force you to feel love for him. You're not a bad evil person because you can't love him back. Sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Sometimes we break others' hearts, and get our hearts broken too.The only difference is that your T is trying to pull some midieval alchemy on you, and trying to MAKE you fall in love with him. acting sweet, helping you out, giving you extra time and extra services.
He's a T for God's sake. He is not some wizard that can make people fall in love with him. It just doesn't work that way!
And it's not your fault. You're not evil for causing HIM to behave a certain way. He can/should/must be able to handle it, or else find a better T for you.
The worst is that he's being so selfish. As a psychologist (or therapist- whatever) he ought to keep YOUR feelings in mind. YOUR feelings are first and utmost priority. He writes an e-mail that's so distressing to a woman who he knows is vulnerable? That's not love, that's cruelty.
I don't want anybody to hurt my friend (((Elaine))). It's time for her to heal.
-ll
Posted by caraher on August 30, 2006, at 16:54:02
In reply to meltdown **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 30, 2006, at 15:52:15
> I feel like cr@p today -- sooo guilty. I got another letter today. He has no idea that any of this is happening. He thinks so much of me, he apoligized for putting me on the spot with that "scary" email. I'm going to ruin him.
Nonsense. If he's ruined he gets all the credit.
Suppose you had a friend who was the victim of a crime perpetrated by someone close to her. What would you tell your friend if she said, "I'm going to report this to the police, but I feel bad because I'll ruin him." Would it be your friend's fault for telling the authorities, or the perpetrator's fault for committing the crime?
>I hate myself so much I can't stand it. He only wants me to know how real people relate and feel for each other.
Trust us on this. That's NOT all he wants. If it were he would not have made the kinds of demands on you that he has. "Real people" get angry when someone, even a lover or friend, becomes manipulative. If you want practice at "real" relationships this is part of it!
> How can I take the only good feelings a real person has for me and throw them away like garbage - or as though I had an abundance of others who cared. How can do it? how.
You do have others who care... and there are people you've yet to meet who will care. I know it'll be hard, but don't be ruled by fear.
> I HATE MYSELF. I wish I was gone.We love you. I love you. We would miss you terribly. Your self-hatred is undeserved.
> I do want someone to love me. I want love alot - I've had too long without!
I agree that you need and deserve love. But you need a better love than your T can give you.
> Why should I be so picky. Ugly girl. Stupid. Crazy.
I really do wonder what you look like. To hear you talk I picture a sort of female Stephen Hawking. My guess is that your self-image is far, far uglier than reality! And that goes beyond the physical. You're a very beautiful person with the way you offer support here, and are so reluctant to see anyone in pain (even if they "earned" some!). You have a college degree and say intelligent things; you're definitely not stupid. And as for crazy... you've lived under highly abnormal and unhealthy circumstances. You're doing quite well in many ways despite enduring a lifetime of hatred or indifference.
>Others have been worse to me, and got more.
Right. This is what's called progress. No more exploitation.
> Oh. Why is this happening? I can't take it. I want to email LadyT, but I don't want to kill her too.I don't think it's possible to send a bomb through email, so even if you had evil intentions you're highly unlikely to kill her! ;)
Seriously, she's a professional. She can handle it. Please contact her. She may come up with ways to help you you and I wouldn't think of.
> This woman Friday is going to think I'm an idiot.Don't try to gaze into the future. Your vision is darker than reality. She's there to help; if she thought everyone with a problem is an idiot she needs to find a new line of work!
> I feel so stupid. I hope I don't cry infront of her, cause tears are stupid and ugly like me.
You can't believe tears are stupid without believing, I dare say, everyone who reads this is stupid for tears they've shed. El, you're not at all stupid or ugly, and your tears would be sad, not stupid. She may find your tears tug at her heart and make her want to comfort you, rather than dislike you.
> I don't want this to be happening like this. I am so confused -- I'm afraid and not, wanting to hide from and run to him, want someone to take me away and also be alone, and want someone to love me and also hurt me. I want to die. And on top of everything, I had a disgusting binge today and I've only ever had two in my life before (when I was in the 80 range). It's gross -- guess I'm definately (obviously) not anorexic anymore :-( I want someone to shoot me with a tranquilizer.
(((El))) Yes, this is a very hard, confusing situation. It's OK that you haven't got it all figured out. When you get the right help, which you don't have now, perhaps you'll get a better idea of what you want and need.
We're here pulling for you!
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:24:23
In reply to Re: meltdown **triggers » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:17:00
Elaine, I have ugly tears too. they are salty and leave my face streaked and my mascara smudged like some cheap soap opera actress.
I have to go home now, because I can't cry like this at work.
But tears dry. and I mostly feel better when they're gone. Ugly tears does not equal ugly person.
can I borrow some of the cloudy tissues I gave you the other day?
Caraher, you amaze me. You're right on the money. And you write that you love Elaine. I think I do too. I think it's a new kind of love, though. Not like a sister, or a best friend, but something in that genre of human emotion. I think about what Elaine is going through these days when I'm waiting for my ride, or walking around town. I don't care what she looks like. She'd still be Elaine. I don't love her for what she looks like, and that couldn't detract from her spirit, anyways. I hope that feeling some babble-love makes you stronger, Elaine.
My head hurts so bad. I'm going home before I lose any more saline.
-ll
Posted by ElaineM on August 30, 2006, at 18:48:15
In reply to Re: meltdown **triggers, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 17:24:23
((((((my friend LL)))))) Yes, mascara tears sting in your eyes ;"( And I do not think you're ugly for crying, you are too kind and witty and caring and generous. And I can feel that you're a good person through your words -- and not just the ones to me though. I love words more than speaking, and I find them more touching than in-person hugs. I think that they are beautiful -- and the people who have a natural gift of words are beautiful too.
I want you to be happy more than I want me to be happy :-) You can tell us what's upsetting you too you know.
You may share my tissues -- the box has pink hollograms on it. (for real)
I'm so grateful you [and ((((caraher))))] are my babble friends. And I love you too because there is absolutely nothing to obligate you to help me, and yet you do anyways -- I still don't really understand that. I wish people in real life were like all Babblers.
More hugs for hurting ((((Lurp))))
EL
Posted by muffled on August 30, 2006, at 22:23:11
In reply to tears and tissue » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on August 30, 2006, at 18:48:15
Hey El,
Thanks for posting.
Those guys did such great posts.
Beautiful.
You are worthy El.
Worthy of decent help so you can discover your worthyness.
You are SO not leperous (thats what I used to call myself).
Keep at it.
You got lotsa people rooting for ya.
Muffled
This is the end of the thread.
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