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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by frida on July 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
Hi..
I am really struggling in T with a wonderful T to tell her about the abuse I suffered at the hands of my father. But I can't talk freely, and I can't express feelings while I am there or tell from my heart. If I talk, I talk as if I were dead (and she has noticed this) and if not, she does see how much I am trying to control tears and I can't let go and cry as much as I need to. I've been looking all my life for this kind of relief- To share this, to break the silence. And I can't. I don't know what to do. She now tells me that she won't abandon me and will wait for me till I am ready. But that she is concerned about my level of pain right now and how hard it is to function.
I feel so much urgency to tell her that this is present in me and I have flashbacks and it makes me cry during the week and I am having difficulties at work and everywhere.
She tells me that maybe I am not talking because I am so scared of losing control (more)
If I think about it there is nothing I want more than let her see my pain and cry and tell her some of what I have never told anyone.
I have tried writing, drawing, but this doesn't bring me the relief I am desperately needing. I am needing to stop crying all by myself, and tell her what happened.
But I can't do it.Is there hope?
Frida
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2006, at 14:24:09
In reply to child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by frida on July 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
I don't really have any expertise in this, but it seems to me that putting pressure on yourself to do something before you're ready won't make it come faster. While leaving yourself open to the experience, and accepting that at this moment you aren't quite there yet, leaves the opportunity open without the demand. If that makes any sense.
My therapist once told me that he realized he was trying to change me, and that no one changed unless they were accepted as they were. He left it open for me to change if that happened, but made it ok for me to be where I was, if that's what I needed to do. Maybe the same thing holds true for pressure from ourselves to change.
So Frida, there are probably very good reasons why it's hard for you to let go and do what you want to do so desperately. And you can give yourself loving permission to stay at this stage for as long as you need to, until you're ready to move on to the next stage.
Posted by Tamar on July 7, 2006, at 15:30:56
In reply to child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by frida on July 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
Hi Frida
> I am really struggling in T with a wonderful T to tell her about the abuse I suffered at the hands of my father. But I can't talk freely, and I can't express feelings while I am there or tell from my heart.
Aren’t you being rather hard on yourself? I haven’t heard of anyone who finds it easy to talk freely about their experience of child abuse. It’s not easy to say anything at all, let alone talk freely.
> If I talk, I talk as if I were dead (and she has noticed this)
I talk in a similar way sometimes. I sometimes find I can’t talk unless I separate the facts of what happened from my feelings about it. So I can speak the facts without feeling the feelings. To do both at once feels really dangerous.
> and if not, she does see how much I am trying to control tears and I can't let go and cry as much as I need to.
It’s very hard for some people to cry in therapy. It takes a huge amount of trust to be able to let yourself go that much. And people who have been abused can remain profoundly wary of others for a very long time. So even though I’m sure you trust her, your experience is probably keeping you from letting it all out at the moment.
> I've been looking all my life for this kind of relief- To share this, to break the silence. And I can't.
Well, I think it’s wonderful that you have found someone you want to share this with. It can be a very slow process. But if she’s the one, the wait is worthwhile.
> I don't know what to do. She now tells me that she won't abandon me and will wait for me till I am ready. But that she is concerned about my level of pain right now and how hard it is to function.
That’s a very real concern. And aiming to lessen the pain is really important.
> I feel so much urgency to tell her that this is present in me and I have flashbacks and it makes me cry during the week and I am having difficulties at work and everywhere.
> She tells me that maybe I am not talking because I am so scared of losing control (more)That makes a lot of sense. I also wonder if you’re afraid that you need to do something to save yourself as soon as possible. I can imagine you still feel you’re in danger from the abuse even after many years – especially if you’re having flashbacks.
> If I think about it there is nothing I want more than let her see my pain and cry and tell her some of what I have never told anyone.
(((((Frida))))) I’m sorry it’s so painful.
> I have tried writing, drawing, but this doesn't bring me the relief I am desperately needing. I am needing to stop crying all by myself, and tell her what happened.
> But I can't do it.Yet. You can’t do it *yet*. You are in the process of doing some very important preparatory work. I can imagine you might feel as if you’re not succeeding in doing the work you need to do, but actually the process of getting to feel completely safe is essential if you’re going to gain anything from telling her. And that can take time.
> Is there hope?
Absolutely. The work you’re doing now is very much what you need to be doing. You need to establish as much safety as you possibly can. And it sounds as if she’s helping with that. She’s telling you she won’t abandon you. She’s not rushing you. And she’s genuinely concerned about your pain. These are all very important things, and you need to be able to assimilate them as much as possible before you can begin to say the terrible things out loud in her presence.
But you will get there.
When I want to talk about things I find difficult I sometimes pick just one very small part of it. Usually one of the parts that doesn’t feel too completely awful. And I try to think of one way of talking about that one little thing. And when I get a sensitive response from my therapist it gives me the courage to say one more thing. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to tell him everything all at once. And even after talking about something, I sometimes need to come back to it. I don’t know if the same thing would work for you.
You mentioned that you wanted relief. Can you get any relief from knowing that your therapist is there with you on your journey and will be ready to help you through each stage? It’s a terribly difficult journey, but having her company will give you enough support to get you through it.
You can do it. Don’t give up.
Tamar
Posted by Racer on July 7, 2006, at 16:02:07
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Tamar on July 7, 2006, at 15:30:56
There is hope, and it's likely that you will get there. You've already won the biggest, hardest battle: you've gotten into therapy with a T you trust who's being very supportive of you as you are. Trust me -- took me several years to get to the "T I trust" part.
As for *how* to get there, that's always individual. How you get there will be different from how I get there. But we'll both get there.
In my case, one thing that helped was to talk about how I felt about not being able to talk about it. Also, talking about what was keeping me from talking about it. So, that might be worth a try for you, too.
Or just talking about how hard it is to separate the abusive father from the loving father? I'm assuming there were some good points to him, and forgive me if I'm wrong. If I am wrong, substitute "separate the abusive father from the father you were supposed to love and respect."
For me, one thing that became a problem was -- and, frankly, continues to be -- separating what my mother did from my feelings for her. I'm very protective of her, and I'm still -- in middle age -- trying to win her love. (Uh... Bad news, Racer...) With that, and my guilt and panic about feeling anything negative about her, it's hard to talk about how much I was hurt and how much anger I have inside me over it. (I'm not even aware, I don't think, of how much anger there is. My T tells me she can feel a lot of anger, but I'm only just aware of it. There's too much fear and guilt in the way.)
Anyway, that's starting my tear factory, so I'll stop now...
Posted by Jost on July 7, 2006, at 20:27:01
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Racer on July 7, 2006, at 16:02:07
Don't give up, frida.
I'm so sorry you're having such a very hard time now.
What Dinah and Tamar said seems so right.
Try to give yourself breathing space, and trust that it will come out, even if you feel terrible pressure and that choked-up, desperate feeling. You'll get there, and your T is and will be there.
I really know that feeling you're having, and it's hard to find the strength, but you will.
Jost
Posted by Daisym on July 8, 2006, at 10:47:46
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Jost on July 7, 2006, at 20:27:01
I want to echo what everyone else said. It took me forever to talk about stuff. Relief could come from her permission to just let it go for awhile. She said she would wait. That is huge.
Suffering alone though can be a learned behavior that needs a little push. I like the idea of taking a small part and talking about that. Like, what color where the walls? And sometimes telling the stories in a dead way is just working up to telling them in other ways. Go slow and be kind and gentle to yourself.
I also like the idea of talking about why you can't let go and just cry. Are you afraid you will never stop? (Biologically impossible.) Are you afraid she will get annoyed that you aren't stopping? (highly unlikely.) Your tears can't hurt her. And she won't hurt you because you cry them.
I wish I had the magic answer. But you are doing such hard work, just showing up each time. I'm proud of you for that.
love and hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Racer on July 8, 2006, at 11:06:53
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Daisym on July 8, 2006, at 10:47:46
>
> I also like the idea of talking about why you can't let go and just cry. Are you afraid you will never stop?It's funny, but for an example of how incredibly weird the answer to that can be, I truly think my fear is that if I lose control and just cry, I'll wet my pants. I don't know quite where that comes from, but it seems to be high on my list of what scares me...
Posted by Poet on July 8, 2006, at 11:33:18
In reply to child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by frida on July 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
Hi Frida,
I never cry in therapy. I trust my therapist more than I trust anyone else, but I don't trust her anywhere near 100 percent.
It took me years to admit, in writing, that something had happened to me. She wanted me to read it to her and I wouldn't. She read it out loud to me.
We have an agreement that she will never bring it up. If I bring it up then she'll assume it's okay to talk about it. I haven't brought it up and what she read was over a year ago.
I'm a writer so it's easier for me to put it on paper then say it outloud. There's nothing wrong with you showing your T what you've written or drawn. It's hard when they look at it, I got through it by not looking at her when she read it.
I know what you're going through. I wish I were a blurter who could just let it out, but I'm not. It's a hard thing to to talk or write about, I wish you courage and strength to find whatever it takes to let some of the pain out.
Poet
Posted by antigua on July 8, 2006, at 18:49:54
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up? » Daisym, posted by Racer on July 8, 2006, at 11:06:53
Me too! Losing control is represented by wetting my pants. It's one of my absolute greatest fears. I've never heard anyone else say that. What do you think it means?
antigua
Posted by antigua on July 8, 2006, at 18:54:43
In reply to child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by frida on July 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
You've asked the question that I search the answer for every day. When will I be able to freely let go and remember everything, spill it all out. There is a black shape, a memory, that refuses to become avalable to me, and I know that it is at the center of everything. I've tried pretending it's just a piece and that I may never know it, and don't need to, but it's a huge obstacle that refuses to budge.
My T never pushes, and says when I'm ready, it will come. Well, it has been 15 years and I'm still waiting, although I know I trust her more with each telling.
Good luck Frida. I'm on your path. I can relate the abuse w/detachment and rarely cry. One day I know that I will know why.
best,
antigua
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:41:49
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up? » frida, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2006, at 14:24:09
Dear Dinah,
Thank you for your post....
I am trying to accept that I am not quite there yet, but it's taking me years, and now I feel it is all so near the surface and affecting me in everything. I am scared of that, of it spilling over work and other areas where I have to stay in control.
I am scared because I have it all so in me so much...
thank you for your words.
they made me feel a little more hopeful.Frida
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:49:37
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Tamar on July 7, 2006, at 15:30:56
Dear Tamar,
Hi, thank you so so much for your post and sharing with me.
I don't quite know how to handle this feeling I have in between sessions and constantly, it is affecting me at work. I feel as if I were right in the middle of that situation, and every time I see my T I view that as my chance to tell and let go and when I can't, I feel as back then, as if I had to come back to "it" alone.
It makes me cry a lot at night and then when I see my T I can't even tell how I feel. She says that for her it is as though I had lost all right to talk about myself, my feelings and to share them.
We've talked about all the possible reasons why I can't yet, about this pact of being silent always, my mother's role in all of this and how she still doesn't approve, my fear that he'll come and get me (Impossible because he died), my fear of not being able to control it...I just don't know - I feel huge need to break the silent after so many years and it scares me. I told her that one of my fears is to keep this inside of me forever and get used to it and be like..dead inside.you are so right about what you say...that I need to do something to save myself as soon as possible :-(
Thank you for sharing this. She has truly proved to me I can trust her, I will try to hang on to that...
Thank you ,
Frida>
>
>
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Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:54:22
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Racer on July 7, 2006, at 16:02:07
Dear Racer,
Thank you so much for your post and sharing.
I am truly finding it hard..it is all so near the surface that I fear it will spill over work and the places where I need to hide this so much.I've tried finding out why I can't talk yet..I just don't know. My T says that it is as though I had lost all hope and rights to talk or share.
We've talked about my mother's role, how she still doesn't want me to talk, I just don't know. She also says that maybe I am afraid of losing even more control than now...
but the times I've shared some, I have felt relieved...I wish I could just cry at least because I cry by myself all the time.
She has also said that part of it may be because I loved my father too..as you've said.Thank you for sharing and I am sorry you have to deal with this too :-(
support,
Frida
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:55:04
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Jost on July 7, 2006, at 20:27:01
Thank you so much. I'll try to hang on..
Frida
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:59:53
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up?, posted by Daisym on July 8, 2006, at 10:47:46
Dear Daisy,
Thank you so much for your post.
I agree that suffering alone is one of the most painful things, and that is something that I find hard to manage..because I feel as back then again and again when I cry all alone and control it in session.
I don't know why I can't cry. I cry in the elevator just before ringing the bell, and I cry right when I leave. I just can't cry with her yet :-( after years. I can cry silent tears sometimes.
She says she thinks I feel I've lost all rights to talk or feel my things do matter. I share something and then minimize it as if I had no rights to say anything.Thank you for the support,
Frida
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 13:02:18
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up? » frida, posted by Poet on July 8, 2006, at 11:33:18
Dear Poet,
Hi...thank you for sharing.
It has taken me 6 years with my T to build the trust I have now..
One of my biggest fears is that I see how I could hide this forever inside of me and be dead inside and I don't want that. It comes to me all the time and I do feel a huge need to share, I have the feeling I can't delay it any more and yet I go there and I can't do it . It makes me cry when I leave session.
Thank you for sharing with me. I"m glad you have a good T too to guide you through this painful journeyFrida
Posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 13:07:26
In reply to The million dollar question » frida, posted by antigua on July 8, 2006, at 18:54:43
Dear Antigua,
I am so sorry you're struggling with this too.
It is so painful. :-(
I struggle with this huge need..every night. IT comes to me the feeling of being there after it happened and needing to finally let go, tell it all, cry with all of me.
I've waited all my life for this...and I can't.
I guess it does take time. It's taken me 6 years to trust my T does care about me.Thank you for sharing with me,
Frida
Posted by Racer on July 9, 2006, at 13:28:59
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up? » Racer, posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 12:54:22
One other thing that helped me years back was going on antidepressants. Way back when I was in therapy before, I had a long period of being STOPPED. Just stopped in therapy, not getting anywhere at all.
It felt as though I was in a hallway, and there were doors all around me, but I couldn't make myself open any doors, because I was so frightened of the demons inside. The antidepressants allowed me to open the doors and look at those demons. If you haven't tried medications to augment therapy, it really might be worth a try. For me, it did reduce the anxiety and despair I felt, enough that I could face some of it.
Good luck to you, and I hope that helps.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 19, 2006, at 18:16:04
In reply to Re: child abuse - *warning* giving up? » Poet, posted by frida on July 9, 2006, at 13:02:18
Not meaning to highjack this thread at all, but some of the things said here hit close to home.
I've just realized that one of my biggest fears (other than failure) is losing control, and one of the biggest ways for me to lose control is to cry in front of others.
I have cried in front of teachers, when they give me unfair grades or criticism, and to me, that is the ultimate defeat. I cried in front of the doctor when he told me i need to lose weight. I hate to cry in front of people, especially teachers, employers, and other professional situations. It makes me feel so weak.
I think this is because I have tried *so hard* not to show my feelings and emotional instability to anyone. I want, no, I NEED to appear strong, or I will never have a career. Who wants a designer who cries when you say you don't like her work? Rejection happens, but I can't deal with it well yet.
So, when I cry, I am defeated, or I feel that way. I think the reason I really haven't had a *real* job yet is because I'm afraid of my unruly emotions. I'm afraid I wont be able to keep my composure. The thought is scarier than death to me.
Sorry for getting off subject...
I was abused by someone close to me when I was young. I didn't talk about it for a long time, and I still haven't talked much. When I went for therapy at the Women's Center, I was given a journal to write in. My Therapist read the journal, (which was mostly poetry) and then asked me questions about it. I found this to be an easier way of comunicating than just talking.
Another option would be to use a tape recorder to record your thoughts, and then take that to your therapist. Once she knows what went on in your life, it may be easier for her to understand whats happening now. It may never have to be brought up again at length, once you've told her your story.
Talking about abuse is very, very hard, and an emotional process. Someday you may get tired of keeping it all inside of you.
Good luck
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