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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 17:25:04
Childhood-
Trapped, dependent, no hugs, no kind words, I didn't matter, felt alone, too sad to cryMarriage-
Trapped, dependent financially, no hugs or kisses or sex, no kind words, just arguements, I don't feel like I matter to him, lonely , soo sad, can't cry in front of my kidsIn a way my marriage is worse than my childhood because I didn't choose my parents but I did choose my DH. Why am I so hard to love?
Posted by orchid on October 3, 2005, at 19:39:22
In reply to Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 17:25:04
I don't know why I think this HF, but when you initially came here, you seemed very happy in your marriage. I wonder if a marriage of neary 10 - 11 years (if I remember it right) can deteriorate irrevocably within 6 months.
My thoughts are that, your husband possibly senses your interest and attachment to your T, and is holding back his affection or trying to find other avenues of attachment for himself.
I really do think it has lots to do with your involvement with your T.
It might be hard to acknowledge for you, but I think it is really really difficult for any woman to be fully open to two men at the same time. It is either or. I really do think if you need to save your marriage, you need to give up your therapy for a while atleast.
(I might be totally off base, and this may not be the advice you like, but I really think it is best for you if you put your stake in your marriage, and give all the emotional attention it needs rather than focussing your interest in your T).
Posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 22:23:36
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » happyflower, posted by orchid on October 3, 2005, at 19:39:22
Hi Orchid, I see what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense, but there are parts I haven't shared on the boards.
I have been married for 12 years and thought I was happy. But I stopped living and wrapped my life around my DH and kids. I stopped doing the things that I love to do, everything revolved around my DH. I was the "perfect" wife, did everything that I thought was expected. My DH didn't like my friends, didn't like me doing things without him. So eventually I became issolated from everything and everyone who was important to me before marriage.
I guess I am just realizing that I haven't been living fully. Now I am involved with people, music, gardening, etc., my DH does feel threatened because he isn't the center of my life, I am. I am more than a wife and mother, I have a right to do things that make me happy. Therapy has helped me become myself again after 15 years. I feel really good about what I am doing. My DH refuses to share in my interestes like I have done for him. I just want to go on a walk with him, but just isn't interested.He was on a oversees business trip back in Feb., and this friend of his, came on to him at his hotel room door. He was been very good friends with her, but she wanted more, and it left him confused. She is very pretty, smart, and I can see why he likes her. He won't talk to me about this and it is like it is hanging over my head if he is going to stay with me. This has been like this since Feb. He just won't open up to me. This hurts very deeply knowing my DH is in love with somebody else.
Now my DH is very supportive when it comes to dealing with my mother, but we were having problems before I started therapy. But they were overlooked due to my bigger problems with my mother. We have always been open with each other, but since this other women, he has closed down to me emotionally and physically. I just want my DH to be the guy I married who wanted me. I have only had sex like twice since Feb., I try but he isn't attracted to me I guess, he turns me down. I have stopped trying because I can only take so much rejection.
I have been doing great since I have started therapy, I exercise everyday, practice the trumpet, play in 2 bands, getting my master in gardening, and becoming more social in general. My kids are doing great with their studies ( I Homeschool)and I even play with the dog now. My T is very happy for my progress, and he is helping me with my marriage problems. But I can't work on my marriage alone, he has to want to make it better too. My T says he things my wife skills are just fine, he thinks it is my DH that is going through something. But this something started before I started therapy.
Yes I do like my T , we have a lot in common, and I enjoy talking with him. He has helped me become a person again, so I don't know why he can't help me with my marriage too. He knows I am trying to get my DH to open up. My DH has shut himself down from my marriage. I am struggling with this, I am very hurt by him. My T knows I am working on my marriage and is trying to help me. My DH refuses to do marriage therapy. What am I suppose to do?
Posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 22:32:28
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » happyflower, posted by orchid on October 3, 2005, at 19:39:22
Why are you saying I am involved with my T ? We have not crossed any boundry lines of being anything more than a client and a therapist. Yes I am attached, but most clients are attached to their T, it is normal in the therapy process.
Therapy is the best thing I have ever done for myself I believe. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you mean. :)
Posted by fairywings on October 3, 2005, at 23:26:33
In reply to Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 17:25:04
>
> In a way my marriage is worse than my childhood because I didn't choose my parents but I did choose my DH. Why am I so hard to love?
>Honey, you know you aren't hard to love! You don't need to defend yourself. I'm also pretty familiar with your past because of what you've told me, it s*cked! Period, no other way to put it, and you didn't choose your past, you're right, and you didn't choose to have a husband who was going to be a stick in the mud either! You are lovable, he's just not loving you the way you deserve to be loved right now, and that's not any way for a husband to be. You have every right to feel neglected by your husband.
You have really come out of your shell with the help of your T, and if you feel very close to him, then so be it. He has helped you so much, and the two of you DO seem to have a lot in common. You need to have more faith in yourself, don't be down on yourself! It's not you with the problem, it's your dh. You have so much going for you, I wish your husband would validate you, and treat you the way you deserve to be treated.
You're young happyflower, you still have SO much living to do, I hope you take advantage of all of those years, so that you don't look back with regret. I'm not saying walk away, I'm just saying don't let anyone ruin your life, do what you have to do to make the most of it regardless of what anyone does or thinks. You take care of happyflower, and don't let anyone else tell you that you're doing anything wrong, because you're not!
fw
Posted by orchid on October 4, 2005, at 16:10:05
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 22:23:36
Hi HF,
I see your point.
Maybe your DH is afraid of your new growth and being yourself, and is getting some confidence in pursuing other interests. Or he could be the type of person who doesn't like his wife to be very independant.
I am not sure you can do anything for your husband at this point. He will have to decide his life. But in any case, I think a marraige of 12 years is definitely worth putting all your efforts in salvaging. Try not to think of a divorce or separation at this point. It isn't good for you, neither it is good for kids. And usually a divorce is not really worth it. (People might disagree, but it is my opinion).
Plus I do think there are many good qualities in your husband - being supportive of your troubles with your mother an example. Another fact is that he has been a stable provider for your family. Even the fact he was honest to you about this other woman is a pretty good quality. Now he might be shutting off, maybe just because he is not sure of his feelings and he probably doesnt want you to hurt. Maybe he is attracted to her like you are attracted to your T. In all marriages there are ups and downs, and periods when people get bored with their marriage and start looking outside. But most of the marriages survive this occassional mild infidelity if both the partners are somehow committed to each other. In fact, some people even say it is good for the marriage in the long run to have this mild infidelity occassionally. Being not interested in sex could be a very minor issue in the overall grand scheme of things. Unlike here, in marriages in my country, sex is given the least of priorities. There are many couples who go without having sex for many years. So for the time being, I think you probably need not feel rejected if your husband isn't interested in it. Actually, I think he is a decent person, because otherwise, he might jsut have had sex as usual with you, and on the side he could have pursued his interest in the other woman. The very fact that he is trying to abstain, seems to me that he respects you, and doesn't want to fool around.
I think he is a little intimidated by your new growth. But I think with patience, if you do new things slowly enough for him to catch his breath, he might become quite open and supportive of your growth. The key is to do new things slowly, so that he doesn't get overwhelmed and to keep him in the loop. Also being open with him, and telling him that it is good for you and for your marriage if you develop new interests might work. Openness always works in the end.
Plus, what I meant by being involved with your therapist, I meant only emotional involvement. Emotional involvement, just like an actual affair, takes a toll. By nature, woman are kind of meant to be loyal to one partner. I don't know about men, but for a woman, being emotionally close to one guy and trying to live with another, doesn't work well. For brief periods of time, it is fine, but in the long run, you will have to choose your loyalty. Sooner or later you will have to find ways to be emotionally close and intimate with your partner, either through marital therapy or by your own efforts. That is why nowadays I feel going to male T is really not that good for women, because there is a huge conflict that arises in the mind.
Plus your husband might be open to marital therapy if you suggest a older female counsellor. He might be wrongly assuming you want to see your male counsellor for marriage and he might be feeling jealous.
I think marriage with any decently good guy is worth trying to fix rather than break. It may not happen even for a few years, but eventually, it always is better to stick to a marriage than leave.
Plus there are lot of subtle things that partners notice in each other. If you are pre occupied with your T (even if you think you hide it well enough for your husband not to suspect), it is practically impossible for your husband not to suspect it. It will be plainly visible in innumerable ways - from the way you talk, the way you behave etc. I am pretty sure he is already jealous of your T, and might even be using the new woman as a way to get back at you.
If you don't need intensive therapy for now, maybe reducing the frequency with your T for now, might be a good start. And try to talk more to your husband about how you feel. Maybe politely. Plus do your new developments in a slower pace, rather than doing everything at once. That will make it easier for your hsuband to accept it. IF you suddenly start going to gym, start playing trumpets, enroll for new classes, he might feel quite intimidated. Give him time to catch up.
(Please don't take any offense in my views. These are just my views and may not be right. But it seems a marriage of 12 years is worth all the effort on your part. Plus the influence of Ts are quite a strong issue. It might look like he is your well wisher and he is great and your husband is like a not-so-great-a-guy in comparision, but eventually, your husband is the one who will stand besides you.)
Posted by happyflower on October 4, 2005, at 18:13:12
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » happyflower, posted by orchid on October 4, 2005, at 16:10:05
Thanks Orchid for all your advice and time. My T has said I am not at the divorse or separation stage yet, that there are more things to try with my DH. When I mention marraige therapy, my DH knows I don't mean with my T . My T won't do couples therapy with me because he is already working with me alone. But my T does agree that we need to do couples therapy or our marriage will be in trouble if it continues like it is. I love my DH and if he can act like my DH again, I will be very happy. But right now he isn't being a good husband. Thanks again.
Posted by orchid on October 4, 2005, at 18:34:45
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » orchid, posted by happyflower on October 4, 2005, at 18:13:12
:-)
I think maybe you should continue to try to convince your Husband to come to therapy.
Also I hope that this will be a transient thing and that your hubby will get back to being nice again. He has to do his part too to make the marriage work.
Posted by lynn970 on October 4, 2005, at 20:19:30
In reply to Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 17:25:04
Oh! I pray that you find happiness. You deserve to be loved very much.
Posted by happyflower on October 4, 2005, at 21:57:06
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by lynn970 on October 4, 2005, at 20:19:30
> Oh! I pray that you find happiness. You deserve to be loved very much.
Thank you Lynn, I don't know if I deserve it, but I sure want to in love walking hand and hand into my senior years. ( Im only 36, now)
Posted by Tamar on October 5, 2005, at 16:42:02
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle, posted by happyflower on October 3, 2005, at 22:23:36
Hi Happyflower,
From what you say, it sounds as if your husband doesn’t want to talk about what’s going on in his head, and that’s not an easy position for you to be in.
I’ve been having a hard time with my husband in the last few months. It’s hard going. I really can sympathise. I think at this point my question would be whether your husband admits there’s a problem. The difficulty with admitting there’s a problem is that it entails working hard to find solutions, and that’s not easy to do. So maybe he’s finding it tough. I can imagine that would be frustrating for you because you’re facing so much in therapy that you’ve proved to yourself you have the courage to face your problems head-on, and that can give you courage to face other problems. Maybe your husband hasn’t reached that point yet.
I was thinking about the ‘other woman’ thing. I work in a field where infidelity is rather common, and so does my husband. There’s something about being away from home in a hotel… people sometimes throw caution to the wind and do things they wouldn’t do at home. I’ve seen it happen many times. And as far as I can tell, people don’t usually let their partners find out. If your husband told you what happened, and he didn’t sleep with the woman, I think that’s quite significant. Often in a situation like that people will sleep together, then say to themselves, “It doesn’t matter on foreign territory,” and you’d be none the wiser. So I guess he deserves some credit for being honest with you (and for not having sex with the other woman), even if it hurts.
And yes, I guess it could be confusing for him, particularly if it was his friend. She’s a woman; men sometimes notice women; that’s just life. Women sometimes notice men too… it’s a biological imperative. The important thing, I think, is that he wasn’t actually unfaithful to you, even though he was confused. If he won’t talk to you, perhaps it’s because he doesn’t think there’s anything to talk about. She came on to him, he said no, and that was that. Any man might wonder if he could have managed to get away with it. But if he doesn’t open up, perhaps it’s because she isn’t important to him and he doesn’t want to give you the impression that she has any significance in his life.
If you thought he might be having an affair with her at the moment, that would be different. But you don’t seem to think that (or have I misunderstood?)… Maybe it’s best if you let it go. If he was tempted and resisted the temptation, that says something very good about you, doesn’t it?
On the other hand, having sex only twice since February is pretty serious. No wonder you feel rejected. That’s a horrible feeling. I find it very difficult to believe your husband isn’t attracted to you. It sounds as if he has other stuff going on. I know it’s easy to believe that it’s something to do with the other woman, but perhaps it’s not so straightforward. It might have more to do with your new-found independence than with other women… he’s probably having a hard time adjusting. You’re no longer the person you used to be, and that seems to be a good thing for you. Maybe he needs some time to catch up. He could be sulking in the hope that you’ll return to being the compliant woman you say you used to be.
I’ve gone the opposite way: I used to be very independent and since I became diabetic I’ve been much more clingy that usual. My husband hates it. He rejects me sexually too from time to time. I hate that. So we’re trying to work it out. Once thing I found that helped was that I had to be very vulnerable with him: I had to tell him how hurt I felt, and I had to tell him I understood that he wasn’t very happy with how I’d changed but that it was a fact of life and we’d have to deal with it together. I’m hoping things will improve…
And I hope things will improve for you too.
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on October 5, 2005, at 18:12:26
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 5, 2005, at 16:42:02
Thanks Tamar for your very insightful post. I still don't know for sure if he is cheating on me or not. The women at first quit her job because she was so upset. But then a few weeks she came back to work. I am worried because I know they will be going on a business trip together in Oct.
The reason I know about what happened on that one trip is because he was acting really withdrawn for a couple of months. So one night we had a campfire, and he got kinda drunk (which he normally doesn't drink much at all) and he spilled his guts. He was all sorry because he was attracted to her, close to her, and was very tempted by her. But he reassured me nothing happened other than she kissed him, and he said she left her job.
Things got a little better for about a month. Well I went to go to the store one day to pick up some music supplies, and deceided to surprise my DH with lunch. Well I saw her there! He said he was too scared to tell me she was back. Well during this time he has been withdrawn from me and refusing sex too. The signs don't look good, but I need proof he is cheating before I do anything drastic. I hate that he won't talk to me about this. I have a right to know what is going on.
As far as my new found independence, that has only been for the last 2 months, and this problems has been going on since Feb. But you are right it could be something else too, that is what my T suggests. My T is always asking me if I think my DH is depressed. Well I don't think so because his negative attitude is only dirrected torwards me, not the kids. He is a great father to my kids, spends a lot of time with them. But I can't even get him to talk to me about anything.
It is like we are already separated emotionally, we are just room mates or something. I am trying to hang in there, but it is so hard because it has been going on for a long time now. I just wish he would talk to me. We always used to be so open with each other. We always had a very good sex life. I have tried writing him letters telling him how I feel about him and whatever is bothering him I would like to help. But I haven't got anywhere with that. So I am just waiting like a bump on a log. :(
Posted by Tamar on October 7, 2005, at 7:38:55
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » Tamar, posted by happyflower on October 5, 2005, at 18:12:26
Hi Happyflower,
I’ve been thinking a bit more about what you were saying about your marriage.
I think it does sound as if your husband might be depressed. Maybe he’s decided to make the kids a priority and spend all his energy on them and then he has nothing left for you. I know when I was depressed I felt my husband couldn’t do anything right. The kids were hard work, but my husband was impossible. And I absolutely didn’t want to talk to him about anything because I felt too vulnerable. And he never said the right thing anyway (at least, that was how I perceived things)… Maybe if your husband isn’t talking it’s because he can’t imagine things being any better.
And lack of interest in sex is a fairly classic sign of depression. I was thinking… as far as I can tell, when a man has an affair he doesn’t usually stop having sex with his wife. In fact, sometimes the sex at home gets better and more exciting. Sometimes the other woman wants him to stop having sex with his wife, but I think most men will continue to have sex with their wives anyway. So I suspect your husband's lack of sexual interest has nothing to do with this other woman. If it turns out that he *is* cheating, I’ll be very surprised. Have you thought about what if would mean for your relationship if you find evidence that he’s cheating? Would you leave him, or would you try to work things out? Have you talked about this with your T?
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2005, at 10:31:07
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 7, 2005, at 7:38:55
Hi Tamar,
Yes, we talked about all of this in therapy over and over again. LOL The main thing is why is he not involved in our marriage. It is hard to get him to open up if he is refusing to. But if this continues my T said it is time to start getting a little harder on him and maybe I might get answers that I don't want to hear and I need to prepare myself for that. Be this has to be faces at one time or another. He needs either to get into therapy, either indivdial, or couple therapy, or see a medical doctor if there is somthing physically wrong like depression. But he has refused all of this.
So it all comes down to me and what I am willing to put up with. Can I live with being married to emotionally and physially absent marriage. There are other issues too, like financial, and of course my kids. They adore their father.
I am kinds of stuck in a hard place and since my DH isn't changing, it is up to me to start getting demanding on him to get some help. I know all of this, and I am sort of hoping he will snap out of this, whatever it is.So my T is helping me deal with my rejected feelings that I have and gently guiding me on advice on how to confront him. I also am starting to pull away from him. I am tired of being hurt and rejected. So I guess I am hanging in there. I want my marriage to work. I miss my husband, I miss a lot of things that I had with him. :(
Posted by Tamar on October 7, 2005, at 12:21:37
In reply to Re: Next topic for therapy-My abusive life cycle » Tamar, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2005, at 10:31:07
It sounds like quite a struggle. I do hope things improve soon. I know it's very hard. You seem to be doing everything you can do, which is great... it can be so tempting to give up. Good for you for working so hard at it!
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2005, at 14:58:53
In reply to (((((Happyflower))))) » happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 7, 2005, at 12:21:37
This is the end of the thread.
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