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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
Difficult times right now.
I tried assuming that my T cares about me. It did work a little bit.
A couple of weeks ago in therapy, I started to talk about a dream I had a lot as a kid. My therapist immediately said, “You don’t have to talk about this.” We have never really discussed my childhood.
Under my old assumption of he doesn’t care about me, I would have immediately thought he was saying, “I don’t want to hear it.” Under my new assumption, I thought that he was simply being protective of me, respectful, letting me be in control. And that was nice. I didn’t even think about what the old assumption would have said until long after I had left his office.
And I did tell him the dream. And he even said at the end, this is good. Something he almost never says.
But then this past week has been rough in general. Losing time, lots of conflict with parts. A couple of times on the train, I started to panic because I had no idea where I was going, why I was on the train, who were the people around me, even who I was.
I went to therapy this week wanting support, perhaps even a little sympathy. And I went with the same new assumption that he cares.
But something went awfully awry. I’m not even sure what it was. But he was Mr. Defensive again. Arms crossed on chest. His body turned away from me. Giving me a lecture about my job and telling me to take more control there. Defending a part that I don’t particularly like. “She’s a narcissist like your mother. So don’t hate her. She can’t help it.” Asking me when I am going to make up my mind to rely on him.
And on top of everything his phone was ringing like crazy, maybe half a dozen times. And each time, he’d pick it up and look at the number.
So what happened? Another bad day for him?
I can’t imagine it was anything I said. I didn’t really say much at all. I told him about the train incidents, and then he started in lecturing. Did they scare him?
I could almost feel the anger rolling off of him. And of course, I turned it inward. At one point, he said, “So what are you feeling right now?” I struggled for words. He said, in a cold voice, “So do you feel anything at all?”
Finally, I said “I feel angry at myself for being such a mess.”
“And who do you think is to blame for that?”
“Myself, I guess.”
“No. How about those people, your so-called parents?”
“I think it’s a little late for any good to come out of blaming them”
“Oh so you’re supposed just to be fine, huh? All by yourself, huh? With no help from anyone, huh?”
I just shrugged. He was on a roll and it almost felt like I wasn’t in the room.
So can anyone read between the lines? What happened? What is going on with this therapy?
He did say he thought the train incidents happened because I told him the dream. So did he think I was blaming him? Did he blame himself?
But he also said something about relying on him or something like that. It was actually a complaint. I got the complaint tone but I missed the message.
Any thoughts anyone?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 7, 2005, at 19:33:13
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
hmm.
i'd give him your post.
i don't really know what to make of it...yeah it does sound like another bad day for him.
another thing you could do...
is comment on things at the time
(this can be really hard)but things like crossing his arms and turning away from you... when he does that i'd comment on that. 'i just noticed you crossed your arms and turned away from me - was it something i said? when you do that i feel like you are angry with me' (or whatever you feel in response)
i'd have commented on the phone calls too...
well... actually the truth is i would have sat there and taken it - like you did.
but... i probably would have commented / asked via email...
Posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 20:36:38
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
((((((((Cricket))))))))
i'm so sorry that it's so hard. It's so scary to have things happen - like lose time on the train, an unfamiliar place. Do you have things with you that help you all feel grounded?
Sometimes my littles inside are so afraid of things that i am ok with but they get so scared.
It hurts way inside.i think your T should have been more supportive of the recent trauma.
My T says the exaxt same thing- to blame the p. and i never can- it always feels too late or somewhere i can't go.
i know how that is.i wish i could say something to make you feel better. i think that you're doing an amazing job trying to trust your T- that you're going more than 50 percent of the way in relying on him. i'm not anywhere where you are as far as working to get better. i feel sorry that it's so hard for you. It's even more upsetting i know - to the littles inside.
((((( Cricket's littles and Cricket)))))
Don't be afraid, you will be ok.Sometimes my littles think T is daddy. Not really but kind of- that he should take care of them and when he doesn't it feels bad and i feel bad for them if i am sensitive to them and not into my own stuff like most of the time.
i'm sorry for how painful it feels to be a mess.
love,
kerria
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2005, at 6:33:39
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
Cricket, I know it's hard to do, but I think Alexandra is right.
I'd probably comment on his reactions as they happened to helpe m understand what is going on. Including "You seem angry". It's hard but it's easier for me than wondering.
Posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 13:02:24
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on September 7, 2005, at 19:33:13
> well... actually the truth is i would have sat there and taken it - like you did.
>
It's hard, isn't it?I am pretty certain that next week he will ask if I remember the last session. And I will say that I remember that it felt like he was angry
That's a start, right?
I'm not sure what I am afraid of. That's something to figure out.
The safest thing is to be as invisible as possible. Don't provoke under any circumstance. Rely on ability to flee and fit in small spaces.
All of that is so wired into so many parts of me that even the thought of confronting him is almost impossible.
I will try very hard though. I do have a confrontational part. I've never let her come to therapy. Maybe it's time...
Posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 13:13:20
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » cricket, posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 20:36:38
> i think your T should have been more supportive of the recent trauma.Yeah, unfortunately he's not really the supportive type. I guess I accept that about him. Once in a while I will get a caring look, never words.
>
> Don't be afraid, you will be ok.
Thanks Kerria. It is scary. I do have one little part that is so timid and frail. Half of the time I think she's not going to make it.
>
> Sometimes my littles think T is daddy. Not really but kind of- that he should take care of them and when he doesn't it feels bad and i feel bad for them if i am sensitive to them and not into my own stuff like most of the time.That really hasn't happened for me yet. Maybe it won't. I never had a father (never met him, doubt if he knows I exist) so I think they don't really understand the concept of daddy. They do desperately want someone to say, "it's okay, it's going to be okay" though but those words are not coming from my T, that's for sure.
Posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 13:26:24
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » cricket, posted by Dinah on September 8, 2005, at 6:33:39
>
> I'd probably comment on his reactions as they happened to helpe m understand what is going on. Including "You seem angry". It's hard but it's easier for me than wondering.Hey Dinah. I'm glad to see you posting. You're in my thoughts so much these days.
Wondering is certainly not easy. But what happens with me is that I tend to shut it away and forget about it, but then some residue still remains and next time he gets angry it triggers those shut off past times and every time it seems worse. So not good. I must practice saying, "Are you angry?"
Of course, he'll probably deny it, but at least if I say it, he's aware that he's affecting me and maybe that's part of what he wants. Who knows? He is so strange to me.
Posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 14:12:09
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
OMGosh! Cricket! This is awful! How did you make it through this! You have every right to be angry with this guy! Do you have to stay with him? Read between the lines? He's awful! I remember you talking about the defensivness, arms across chest, turning to the side, I'd run to another T if you can. He's just awful!
And the phone thing! I hate that! My last T checked his phone (if he didn't answer it!), and it was so rude. Honey this has nothing to do with you, no wonder you're having bad time. I hope you can get a new T.fw
Posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 14:14:03
In reply to Re: Difficult Times (possible trigger) » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 13:02:24
I hope she comes, what's the point of therapy if you have to be invisible. You deserve better!
fw
Posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 16:21:48
In reply to Re: Difficult Times (possible trigger), posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 14:14:03
Thanks for the support Fairywings.
It makes me feel better just knowing that there are people like you on my side.
I guess in some ways I do have transference going on with him. Not parental transference though. Authority figure transference. He is all the people in school and jobs who always told me I was stupid and not capable of anything.
I tried to tell him this once. I don't think he got it.
Well, I see what next week brings. Maybe I will be a little braver.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 8, 2005, at 18:27:12
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
sometimes... i can't bear the thought that someone is angry with me. clinicians especially... i really don't want them to be angry at me. i get afraid of that. not sure why...
is some of that going on maybe?
Posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 19:41:53
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » fairywings, posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 16:21:48
I wish you had my new T. We talked tonight about what I went through as a teen, and he shook his head about how it was no wonder I was so wary and couldn't trust, how I wanted to be anonymous and melt into the background because of the way I was treated by the authority figures in my past, people who I should've been able to trust. Gosh, I'm glad I switched T's. This guy is SO much better, I feel so safe with him, like I could tell him anything and it would be okay.
I just don't think it's alright for a T to be defensive and nasty to you like that. To let his issues become yours. If he's angry, or even if it's your perception that he's angry at you, then it's not helping cricket, esp if you feel like you have to disappear. He sounds mean to me!
(((hugs))))
fw
Posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 19:51:43
In reply to Re: Difficult Times, posted by alexandra_k on September 8, 2005, at 18:27:12
> sometimes... i can't bear the thought that someone is angry with me. clinicians especially... i really don't want them to be angry at me. i get afraid of that. not sure why...
>
> is some of that going on maybe?I think it is. But I don't know why either. What's the worst that his anger could do? He would abandon me? That doesn't feel so terrible.
I think it's something else.
I know that rationally he would never physically hurt me and even the littles ones have never really feared that.
So why so afraid of his anger?
I think it's something about denying my reality.
But then again today when I tried to replay his words again, there really wasn't enough heat on his part for it to be true anger. It was cold. More like contempt. That makes me feel worse.
I know I'm being muddled. I have to think some more.
How are you doing Alex? Not much chance to read posts this past week.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 8, 2005, at 20:17:28
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on September 8, 2005, at 19:51:43
> But then again today when I tried to replay his words again, there really wasn't enough heat on his part for it to be true anger. It was cold. More like contempt. That makes me feel worse.
okay... i'm thinking... this might be projection. you might be projecting your worst fears onto him. you might be worried that he sees you the way you are most afraid that you might be. that wasn't so very clear.... i just mean that you feel unworthy of his care and attention and feel contemptable etc etc and are afraid that that is what you are and the thought that he (as someone you are starting to care about when you aren't feeling numb as a defence) might see you that way... and thats what hurts. because you worry that that is how you really are inside.
does that make any sense?
and i think...
that if that does make sense...
then that might be worth talking about.
> I know I'm being muddled. I have to think some more.> How are you doing Alex? Not much chance to read posts this past week.
hmm. hmm. up and down. well... down this week mostly. but things are looking up as of today :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 8, 2005, at 21:44:29
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on September 8, 2005, at 20:17:28
sounds like you are doing really terrific with trying to view him positively.
:-)
and... that can be a hard thing to do.
because if you are able to view him positively... then you are likely to feel more attached to him... and if you feel more attached to him then you are going to care a whole heap more what he thinks of you.
but...
thats what can be healing, i guess.
to think that another human being gets to know you, really gets to know you, hears about your worst fears etc... and doesn't view you with contempt or hatred or indifference.that you are a worthwhile human being.
you are.
:-)
Posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 22:34:27
In reply to Difficult Times, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 13:11:36
Hi Cricket,
Just a thought, why don't you ask him next time why he crosses his arms across his chest and turns away from you. Tell him you find it defensive, and ask him if he could try not to do it, at least for one session. See how he reacts. Might be interesting to see what he has to say.
fw
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:50:52
In reply to Re: Difficult Times » cricket, posted by fairywings on September 8, 2005, at 22:34:27
> Hi Cricket,
>
> Just a thought, why don't you ask him next time why he crosses his arms across his chest and turns away from you. Tell him you find it defensive, and ask him if he could try not to do it, at least for one session. See how he reacts. Might be interesting to see what he has to say.I agree that you could learn a lot from bringing this behavior to his attention. You might want to frame it as your *experience* of him, as in...when you do that (insert behavior here), it feels like or it seems like you are angry with me or shutting me out or however you experienced it. This way, he can't really say "Well I'm not mad!" or something similar without also addressing the fact that this is how he appears to you. At least he should address both aspects: what is going on with him and what it feels like to you.
Of course this would be a scary thing to do. But also assertive and an authentic expression of how you experience him.
I hope things get better.
gg
>
> fw
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