![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
(Subject line really IS here near the end, I just have to set it up a lot first…)
In my session yesterday, I finally told my T. (seeing him for 5 months now) a story I’d been holding back. I posted about it here a couple months ago, asking opinions as to whether or not I should tell him and if so, when. It involved describing to him a session last summer with my ex-T. where I confessed to driving by his house and office many, many times over a period of maybe six to eight months. This is what ex-T. and I, after a fashion, came to jokingly call my “stalking story.” Only because in the letter I wrote him (couldn't say it - too scared) to tell him about my anxiety in missing him between sessions, and relieving it this way, I repeatedly explained what I was NOT doing, and that he just couldn’t think I was a "creepy stalker." Anyway, for weeks now this has been in the back of my mind, as being something that HAD to be told to current T. For honestly purposes, and becasue it later led to deeper stuff about loss and grief over my mom's death, etc. So yesterday, Itold the story.
It took a lot of nervous water-bottle drinking, playing with my shirt buttons, staring at the floor, before I could get it out. He was really wonderful from start to finish, but toward the end surprised the heck out of me to a point I felt a sense a unreality in the room, as if time warped, or I was dreaming or something.
First, when I couldn’t start and kept joking and sighing and looking miserable, he asked what I was feeling right then. I told him scared, nervous, strange, confused. We talked about those feelings a little, and I said I knew they’d mostly go away (I hoped) if I could just do this. Finally, I was able to explain the driving by, how I told ex-T., how fantastic he was about it, accepting and gentle and calm. I explained everything I can remember about what each of us said, particularly how ex-T. immediately took it to the childhood level, speaking about rapprochement, and that looked at through a small child’s eyes, my needing to somehow reconnect to him all the time, to always check if he was still there for me – was a perfectly okay feeling and even expected. That he understood as the adult *10der* it was awful, wondering, worrying, seeing my peers not doing this, and thinking what the heck is wrong with me? (I’d written as much in the letter) He handled it superbly, it cemented our relationship forever, and I always call it the defining moment in that therapy.
Anyway, as I haltingly spoke about all of that, crying and hesitating and explaining (it's still so embarrassing to confess this) my T. sat so still and quiet. I’ve never seen him silent for so long, as he’s an extrovert, very interactive with me, and we usually go back and forth a lot, even on the hard stuff. But not this time. It felt – reverent almost, as if it would be rude and wrong to even move or speak. I guess that was okay, but scary, too, as it was different. I risked a glance up once in a while to make sure he was still listening. He was. It was so hard, because of the risk in him knowing I’m capable of this close-to boundary-crossing behavior, and the flood of memories and longing for ex-T. which he knows is always just under the surface, was there, too, with its rivers of tears. (But actually, that separation has gone so well, it’s not too painful to talk about him now.)
Here it gets fuzzy as to order of events, because what he's about to say overshadows everything. I know we talked abut how I’d asked you guys whether I should tell this (he knows basics about Babble and that it’s important to me), fearing some T’s could be scared off by it, etc. He talked a lot about that, asking me if anything in his body language, previous comments, tone, words – anything – gave me the idea he was upset by this information, or worried, or wanted me to leave or any of the stuff I’d blurted out I was terrified ex-T. would feel. I admitted I couldn’t think of a thing, but said I was still ashamed and confused. T. told me he’s not afraid of me, or made nervous by me, and was so glad I was able to tell the story. He also said he trusts me. He said some other warm and good things, but I can’t recall them. He wondered if it was part of our "logjam" as we’ve called the lack of progress and connection I’ve been feeling for the last few sessions. I said probably.
Then he focused in on an aspect of my telling the "drive by" tale that I’d never paid attention to before. The fact it sounded to him like I was so sure I’d be punished, and was defending myself as a child does. That he’d heard me explain and protest at several points that I wasn’t bad, that I hadn’t done anything wrong, that I was NOT a stalker, that I would never invade ex-T’s privacy by doing inappropriate stuff, that everyone (T. and ex-T.) HAD to believe I was telling the complete truth. I’m listening to this, and he pauses and I realize he’s scooted forward in his chair toward me (NEVER does that). Then he says very softly, "Little *10der* might be afraid of getting in trouble. That she’s broken the rules and so no one will care about her any more." I couldn’t even look up or speak. He said something else about a 5 or 10 year old *10der* having this need and it being so very natural…I know I interrupted, not upset but more puzzled, and told him I never thought of it like that. It was a toddler, not any older, I knew that. But even that was just a theory and I didn’t understand yet the reality of a 45-year old woman reacting to the intense relationship with ex-T. by reverting to this obsessive behavior. I got sort of argumentative in a sniffling way, and so he backed off, saying he would never want to "tell my story" or plant any certain ideas of age in my mind. We sat quietly for maybe 15 seconds and then (it was past time to be done by now) he scoots even a little closer and says in such a kind way, "Would you tell little *10der* that she’s okay? That her story is a good one, and she’s not bad at all? And that she’s perfectly safe in here and no one wants her to leave?" That’s when I felt the room spin some – I mean not like dizzy, it just seemed unreal. To have him directly address me as a younger age, after all I’ve read on these boards, suddenly…I felt…I DON’T KNOW. Not bad. Not good. Like someone else? Not like a child though. He waited a minute and I finally looked him in the eye and he looked very kind, and I said, "okay, I guess." Nothing else would come out. It was much like watching a movie instead of being really in the room, everything changed so fast when he spoke that way.
Now I’ve written all this and I don’t know why, except there was some sort of extraordinary feeling that went on and I had to tell it here. I’m confused. There’s no abuse, neglect or abandonment in my childhood. None at all. There’s not even any memory of either parent being tough on me or requiring the rules to be followed all the time. Ex-T. and I ran out of time before we could delve deeply into my rapprochement behavior, so other than what I read here and have researched on my own, I don’t know what the point of this may be. But T. was quite sure of himself and it seemed to be the most natural thing in the world that he just started asking me to "tell" little *10der* something.
I feel as if I’m "stealing" the concept of younger selves in therapy from others like Daisy, to whom it obviously applies. Which makes no sense – he suggested it – or should I say jumped in with both feet, not me! I never expected to hear that, and because our time was up, I couldn’t process it more with him. Was he wrong to do that? Afterwards, I felt exhausted, relieved, curious, a sense of wonder and maybe eager to talk more. But also almost as if something’s “off.” I think I’m saying I was caught so off guard by that approach being used, I’m still reeling a little. Not in a painful way, though. I did feel more connected, and cared about and understood, yet very possibly misunderstood, too. Is this possibly resistance to something quite on the mark, so I should keep my mind open?
I can’t believe I wrote a post this long. :-( But this was a startling and unsettling session for me, and I don’t know what else to do with all these swirling questions. I’ve probably made a mountain out of a molehill and sound foolish. Well, it won’t be the first time. I both want the next session to come quickly, but then again, I dread it, too.
Anyone who made it reading this far, you deserve a special prize. Guess all I have are ((hugs))
Posted by damos on April 29, 2005, at 1:36:49
In reply to T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
Wow, wow and double wow. I'm still trying to take it all in. The feeling I get from it is good. Yep the feeling is definitely good.
Lots of love and hugs 10derHeart.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:58
In reply to T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
Wow, what an amazing experience. I'm so glad you were able to tell that story and have it be okay.
About "stealing age states" from others on the board. I SO understand what you mean! Recently I've had feelings that seeemed to make more sense to me (they were very confusing) if I tried to "feel" what age they seemed to be coming from. Regression is a valid concept, and is not a bad thing to experience in many cases. I think labelling age states in order to understand the dynamics is perfectly appropriate.
But I also feel a little weird about it, too, and I think for the same reasons you listed.
You know what? We're okay, and we are what we are. All parts of us.
gg
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 2:23:38
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:58
Powerful stuff isn't it? I remember exactly how I felt the first time my therapist talked to little daisy -- and she responded. I almost fell out of my chair. I was really, really upset with him. I remember clearly asking him the next session, "how could you do that to me!" and his response was, "she was right there, with us, couldn't you feel her?" -- Powerful, mind-blowing and I wouldn't have believed that I could ever have felt so completely young.
You aren't "stealing" in anyway. I don't think abuse has to exist for regression to occur. All chidren suffer hurts at the hands of their parents, even the most loving ones. It is just the way things are. So to have needs that are still connected to younger pieces of ourselves is understandable.
My guess is that your younger self may not need to hang around as much, she may not have a lot to work through. Or maybe she does, who knows? But I think you learned a lot about your therapist today, and his ability to handle your shame and grief in a very caring way. He gets lots of brownie points for that.
It is disorienting when the room narrows and time is suspended like that. It doesn't happen often. So of course you are exhausted.
I'm glad you wrote it all out and shared it with us. I'm sitting here nodding my head and smiling.
But still - mind-blowing isn't it?
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 2:34:12
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:58
I'm glad you said "we are all OK and we are what we are" -- I want to say it again -- No one is "entitled" to get more out of therapy, or to be the poster child for a concept, or even to be allowed to talk about certain stuff, or not talk about it, because of their history.
Things change for people all the time here...and I think we all move in and out of states and phases and feelings. I hate to think that someone would hold back because she or he doesn't think they "ought" to say or do or feel something.
No one gets a prize for any of this. We all just struggle on together.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 29, 2005, at 8:06:54
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » gardenergirl, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 2:34:12
>
> No one gets a prize for any of this. We all just struggle on together.
>Amen, and I'm so glad we don't struggle alone.
gg
>
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 12:54:05
In reply to T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
I think it's fair to open your mind to it and give it consideration, then decide whether or not it's something that "fits". The important thing to me would be that your therapist was open and receptive and empathetic. Whether what he proposed fits entirely with you or not is something you can pursue together.
I think most people recognize feelings and viewpoints that originate in childhood and stay with them to adulthood. The degree to which they are separate probably varies from person to person. But even if your "little 10der" is not that distinct, you can still nurture the feelings that arise from that aspect of yourself.
I don't think your therapist did anything wrong per se. What he said could have a range of meanings. I'm not sure we're as suggestible as some theoreticians believe. My concept of myself never changed much in therapy, and never fit the model of having a number of different age states, or many alters. It's always been the single divide with me, that may include differences in internal age image, but don't center completely on them.
The fact that it brought up strong feelings in you probably means it's worth exploration. Just don't go in with any preconcieved ideas about what it means to have a "little 10der" or that it's impossible for you to have younger states.
Oooh, there's something about that in Eastern philosophy, but I can't retrieve it. Something about going in with no preconceptions but a strong position of interested enquiry.
Posted by Tamar on April 29, 2005, at 14:23:27
In reply to T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
I’m not sure the concept of younger selves can be stolen, or that it belongs more to some people than others. I remember the first time my T talked about my younger self I thought it was very strange, as if he was talking about a different person. But then I figured I actually was a different person when I was a kid.
I think it is a good idea for you to keep an open mind about it and process it with him at your next session. It’s natural to worry about the possible implications of his view of you, of your history and of your illness, but in fact he might well not be thinking what you fear he’s thinking. And no, you definitely don’t sound foolish.
Sending you hugs!
Tamar
Posted by 10derHeart on April 29, 2005, at 23:37:05
In reply to T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 23:58:09
....and I REALLY appreciate it.
I have something to say to each individually, but haven't been feeling well (physical - nothing serious) so didn't have the energy today.
Tomorrow I will. I'm sorry I wrote it that way. Not sorry for the content so much, but for the length. It was after midnight and I was really hyperfocused, anxious and feeling driven to get it all out.
But even when tired and processing a new experience, I usually edit better than that :-(
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:15:17
In reply to You're all way to good to me...., posted by 10derHeart on April 29, 2005, at 23:37:05
Take Care 10derHeart. I couldn't post above because I was not feeling too well myself, but I read your post and just wanted to say take care. Hugs.
Pinkeye.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 11:11:49
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by damos on April 29, 2005, at 1:36:49
Oh, thanks, Damos, you always show up everywhere at just the right moments with your support. But no wonder you were still trying to take it all in, he*l, people probably had to pause for a drink and a bit of food about halfway through that one! I really was in some sort of *zone* when I hit the posting button, 'cause I even shocked myself with the length.
It was a good thing. Just so very unexpected, that's all.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 11:27:48
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:58
Thanks, gg. I really don't have any ideas that it's okay or not okay. I think it was a lot about being startled. And I have no clue why I wrote something about "should he have done that?" I KNOW it was okay because no matter what odd feelings came and went and how *new* that was, there was always a feeling of calm and safety underneath everything. That's how I can tell there's no prblem with any "approach" he comes up with. You know, I read that question now and don't even know who wrote it! Hey, wait a minute, maybe....hmm, just gave myself something to consider.
Anyway, I don't quite know how you can know what I meant by the "stealing" remark. But I appreciate you saying that anyway. I say that because I cringe now when I read that part. I know what I was trying to say, but it came out all awkward and unclear. I'll try to explain better in my post to Daisy.
Hope I didn't come across like regression was not a valid concept. I didn't mean to. That's why I shouldn't write stuff that's important to me after midnight :-( I know it is. I think it's that suddenly, with no warning, the whole reason I thought telling him about my "drive by" behavior with ex-T. was so hard, changed - it morphed into something else entirely. Something about me and why I was/am so concerned he (ex-T.) knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, bad, threatening. T. saw something different looking at me and hearing me (and boy was he REALLY hearing me) that I didn't, and that was so weird for a few minutes. And then he made it okay.
I still feel I'm not saying this right. Maybe I'll give myself a pass at least until I can talk to T. about it - which I'm not sure I want to do -before I beat myself up over it. Have patience with anything I say, I'm definitely groping for words and am afraid of offending someone at this point. Maybe it'll get easier with time.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:22:32
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long), posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 2:23:38
> Powerful stuff isn't it? I remember exactly how I felt the first time my therapist talked to little daisy -- and she responded. I almost fell out of my chair. I was really, really upset with him. I remember clearly asking him the next session, "how could you do that to me!" and his response was, "she was right there, with us, couldn't you feel her?" -- Powerful, mind-blowing and I wouldn't have believed that I could ever have felt so completely young.<<
Yeah, it's powerful. I'm not really that upset with him. More curious and confused at what he saw and heard. Because I thought that was simply adult me being embarrassed, quiet, halting and VERY weepy when I have to admit to that kind of needy behavior. But maybe not, because he reacted to something else - of that I'm sure.
I sense this was just a tiny piece of something I often experience as a "deep, dark hurt place." It's *present* , for example, when I'm thinking of someone I miss a lot (ex-T., or my daughter I haven't seen in a while) and then have these crying spells that are too extreme for the situation. These soul-wrenching tears almost have to be about something else. At those moments I do feel a little like a child with no one to console her, but it's muddy. Mostly, I just feel sick and empty and lost.
The deep place I mentioned doesn't lead me to consider repressed memories, well, not of abuse anyway, but to something I can't define or even guess at very well. It's skillfully buried by my "competent-self." I mostly thought it couldn't be from longer ago than age 19 when I lost my mom to cancer. Both T's have as much as agreed that I never grieved over her hardly at all, and I agree, too. But this seemed connected to something else a lot more childlike. Of course, who's to say that such a shocking (because I was misled about her condition and so her death was a shock) event for an only child who was so close to mom, even at 19, couldn't still form the basis for some of this? I mean, who's to say what *age* I *really* was at the chronological age of 19? Does that make sense?
> You aren't "stealing" it anyway. I don't think abuse has to exist for regression to occur. All children suffer hurts at the hands of their parents, even the most loving ones. It is just the way things are. So to have needs that are still connected to younger pieces of ourselves is understandable.<I KNOW this. And I was afraid by writing what I did I'd offend you and others who work with this all the time. Like I was saying, somewhat shocked, "Not me. I don't have that kind of past, so I can't have any younger states hanging around. That's for those *other* people," or something completely awful and wrong like that. Daisy, I hope you know I don't think anything like that AT ALL. I think I've read too much here, in a way. Gotten so in tune with your stories, but classified them as yours (and others, too) - you know, put them in a box of people in touch with younger selves, and that's that. NOT because of the abuse per se, although what I wrote made it sound that way. ANd I could never understand it emotionally, only cognitively, and then all of a sudden last week, I got a quick glimpse into it at a gut level, which felt like an altered state, and...wow.
> My guess is that your younger self may not need to hang around as much, she may not have a lot to work through. Or maybe she does, who knows? But I think you learned a lot about your therapist today, and his ability to handle your shame and grief in a very caring way. He gets lots of brownie points for that. <
I think that's a reasonable guess and may turn out to be right on target. I'll keep my mind open, though. And yes, he gets huge points. I've been thinking he doesn't even know how many. Our relationship was already really good. But with this, to be frank, I would have thought only my ex-T. could have evoked something like this, because he exudes sensitivity, and I could *feel* him in the space between us much better. Just before he moved away last summer, we did have one session where a similar thing began to happen. But, we ran out of time before exploring it :-( So, if this T. can touch me like this... Well, I'm impressed and surprised.> It is disorienting when the room narrows and time is suspended like that. It doesn't happen often. So of course you are exhausted.
Yeah. Thanks for that. Who has time to sleep all day, though? Hah! I'm the single person, not presently employed, with only a cat to take care of - and listen to me whine!
> I'm glad you wrote it all out and shared it with us. I'm sitting here nodding my head and smiling.<
Daisy, thanks so much for saying that. Not only because you obviously *get* this (I already knew you would), but because I'm hoping you see I didn't mean to write anything in that post that sounded offensive. I'm still mixed up about why now, why during that topic, and so forth. And I fear I made it sound like only the more *damaged* people have this happen...and I SO do NOT NOT feel that way. I don't even know what that is, and besides, I HATE that you were abused so much I want to break things!
I couldn't stand it if you thought I was characterizing you and your therapy in some bad way or something. I can be such an inarticulate fool sometimes :-( Thanks for everything you wrote. I don't know how you do it with all that's on your plate.
I'm still available for hand-holding duty, by the way. In or out of your therapist's office. For any age Daisy that would need it. It would be an honor. Hugs from me.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:41:11
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 12:54:05
Thanks, Dinah. That was some very thoughtful stuff you wrote. Actually helped me with the sorting out of some of this.
I don't think my T. did anything wrong, either. I probably never did. When I wrote that, I think it was a knee-jerk comment, sort of a, "gee, don't sneak up on me with important, new stuff like that," reaction. A repeated theme in therapy for me is the terror of having the "rug pulled out from under me," over and over again for the last 26 years by people leaving me suddenly with no explanation, so I see this as a moment of feeling that possibility. Which my T. must not ever even appear to be doing on any level. He must be PERFECT about this. (hah!) Sometimes defensiveness is the first response.
The puzzling thing to me in this is all about memories in general. On some scale of normalcy (not that there there is one, but let's pretend...) where do I fall as far as remembering childhood anyway? This has bugged me for years. No T. has ever given a good answer. They all shrug or babble on about how the way the brain deals with memory is still largely unknown. I have maybe 3 or 4 memories from age five. None before that at all. The rest of my elementary school years are so spotty. I have to have other people or photo albums to really recall much of anything. Is everyone like this? Because when other adults my age tell stories, I always feel like the odd one out, shaking my head and saying I don't get how you remember any of that stuff. Even high school - though it's better - is so fuzzy. Heck, even my daughter's growing up has faded tremendously. I don't like it. Makes me feel quite strange and sad. But perhaps many people's memories work (or don't) just like this. Oops, slight tangent taking over...
Oh, well. I have a lot to think about. What else is new, right?
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:56:32
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » 10derHeart, posted by Tamar on April 29, 2005, at 14:23:27
Thanks so much, Tamar. Your post was really great. (All your posts are wonderful - been meaning to say for a long time how blessed we are to have you around here :-) )
I know what you said is true. My thinking was muddled when I wrote some of that. I didn't even mean the stuff about stealing anything. It just seemed so alien, and the thing is, unlike Daisy's recollection of the first time that happened to her, *I* didn't find myself responding as a younger self at all, yet HE did, for sure. Everything from his shifting in the chair (like I know I do when trying to communicate better with a smaller child), to a change in tone, to the words themselves, told me he was experiencing something I hadn't "caught up to" yet. That was so strange.
Maybe by *stealing* I meant I wondered if I'd internalized the stories from Babblers so much I was *making* this happen, or embellishing it...but heck, that doesn't fit at all. T. said what he said. It was mostly about him, as I was too surprised to say much in response.
I'm not afaid he's thinking anything at all, really. Is there something I should fear he's thinking? All I'm mostly left with it curiosity and wanting to know what good use we can make of him so defintely hearing me over and over again, worried about having broken rules, crossed a boundary as so forth, but maybe not only as an adult needing to respect her T., but as a child, too.
I just now remembered he said it was incredibly clear I was waiting to be punished about revealing my behavior to ex-T. And that I was trying to reason with both him now - and ex.T back then - why I was *good* and shouldn't be punished. I must be quite blind in this area, as I never would have focused there. Yet now, it sounds reasonable. It's a lot to consider, but you guys have made it much easier. Hugs back to you, too :-)
Posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:57:50
In reply to Re: You're all way to good to me.... » 10derHeart, posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:15:17
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 15:27:37
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » Tamar, posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:56:32
> been meaning to say for a long time how blessed we are to have you around here
Thanks so much 10der. It means a lot to me!
> Maybe by *stealing* I meant I wondered if I'd internalized the stories from Babblers so much I was *making* this happen, or embellishing it...but heck, that doesn't fit at all. T. said what he said. It was mostly about him, as I was too surprised to say much in response.
I had the impression that by using the term ‘stealing’ you were indicating that you felt your circumstances didn’t warrant the reference to your younger self. But I know what you mean about the possibility of internalizing other people’s stories.
> I'm not afaid he's thinking anything at all, really. Is there something I should fear he's thinking?
No! Nothing to be afraid of. I just wondered if you were a little fearful of his perspective because of three things you said in your initial post:
“I did feel more connected, and cared about and understood, yet very possibly misunderstood, too.”
“I’ve probably made a mountain out of a molehill”
“I both want the next session to come quickly, but then again, I dread it, too.”
But if you’re curious instead of worried, that’s a good thing!> I just now remembered he said it was incredibly clear I was waiting to be punished about revealing my behavior to ex-T. And that I was trying to reason with both him now - and ex.T back then - why I was *good* and shouldn't be punished. I must be quite blind in this area, as I never would have focused there. Yet now, it sounds reasonable.
I love it when they say things that seem to be out of left field, and yet turn out to be very profound!
Posted by littleone on May 2, 2005, at 22:32:13
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 13:41:11
> The puzzling thing to me in this is all about memories in general. On some scale of normalcy (not that there there is one, but let's pretend...) where do I fall as far as remembering childhood anyway? This has bugged me for years. No T. has ever given a good answer. They all shrug or babble on about how the way the brain deals with memory is still largely unknown. I have maybe 3 or 4 memories from age five. None before that at all. The rest of my elementary school years are so spotty. I have to have other people or photo albums to really recall much of anything. Is everyone like this? Because when other adults my age tell stories, I always feel like the odd one out, shaking my head and saying I don't get how you remember any of that stuff. Even high school - though it's better - is so fuzzy.
I have a lot of trouble with memories. I have two memories of things before age 7, but when I've mentioned them to my parents, I was assured that they've never ever happened. So I really have no idea what to think about them.
I have maybe 3 memories of around age 7 to 8 and then I have nothing until maybe 11 years old. But even stuff after then is very patchy.
I have written out a complete autobiography for my T and my complete pre-high school memories would fit into just a page or two.
Even memories since then are very very patchy. I certainly don't feel like I have a life behind me. Just choppy time fragments.
I've also noticed that I recall hardly no interactions with people. Most of my memories are of things. eg I remember the hopscotch grid and the rock, but not actually playing with other kids. I remember our lounge chair and carpet, but not actually talking as a family. That sort of thing.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 0:17:55
In reply to Re: T. Referred to My Younger Self?! (extrememly long) » gardenergirl, posted by 10derHeart on May 2, 2005, at 11:27:48
> Thanks, gg. I really don't have any ideas that it's okay or not okay. I think it was a lot about being startled. And I have no clue why I wrote something about "should he have done that?" I KNOW it was okay because no matter what odd feelings came and went and how *new* that was, there was always a feeling of calm and safety underneath everything. That's how I can tell there's no prblem with any "approach" he comes up with. You know, I read that question now and don't even know who wrote it! Hey, wait a minute, maybe....hmm, just gave myself something to consider.
Interesting, isn't it, how your thoughts and feelings can change over time? I would guess that you felt so startled and perhaps it felt so personal, that you just were thrown off for a bit. So it makes sense to stand up, brush yourself off, and check things out.
>
> Anyway, I don't quite know how you can know what I meant by the "stealing" remark. But I appreciate you saying that anyway. I say that because I cringe now when I read that part.I just had a very similar feeling recently, and I wondered if my thinking of different emotions as coming from different age states was a structure I was "borrowing" from others. Or if I was overly influenced by what I read here. But I think it makes sense, and I cringe now, too at the thougt that I might be "stealing" someone else's structure for understanding. >
> Hope I didn't come across like regression was not a valid concept. I didn't mean to. That's why I shouldn't write stuff that's important to me after midnight :-( I know it is. I think it's that suddenly, with no warning, the whole reason I thought telling him about my "drive by" behavior with ex-T. was so hard, changed - it morphed into something else entirely. Something about me and why I was/am so concerned he (ex-T.) knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, bad, threatening. T. saw something different looking at me and hearing me (and boy was he REALLY hearing me) that I didn't, and that was so weird for a few minutes. And then he made it okay.
You know, I might very well have been projecting my own issues with where I am at in therapy onto your post when I read it. I should go back to your first post and read it again, and see if I read it differently now. Because I feel like I am regressing again, and I didn't expect to. And I'm not sure it is "okay" yet for me. I'm sure it is, but it feels a bit like I am getting worse. But actually, it's probably a function of deepening.
>
> I still feel I'm not saying this right. Maybe I'll give myself a pass at least until I can talk to T. about it - which I'm not sure I want to do -before I beat myself up over it. Have patience with anything I say, I'm definitely groping for words and am afraid of offending someone at this point. Maybe it'll get easier with time.It will get easier, I'm sure. It sounds like it may be very important to your therapy, but also very startling. Keep us informed how it goes, if you are comfortable with that.
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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