Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
I went to therapy today and tried to explain my feelings to him about last week. He agreed that while the focus of the session became my 'block', that I was making it sound as if he were some sort of voyeur or something. I explained that I needed to feel cared about, and that I left feeling more 'twisted up' inside than when I came. He said that often, since 'scabs are being picked' there is (this is a quote) all the pus underneath that comes to the surface.
He said I am trying to 'prove' that I have a case to distrust him, and that he expected that. I said I felt like he was trying to prove that I was trying to prove that I had this case against him.
I brought up what happened to me many years ago in therapy which added to all of this: I was in therapy with a man that claimed to be in love with me. I was in my early 20's and I believed that somehow the relationship was as spiritually sanctioned as the therapist made it out to be. Although we never actually had sex he clearly expressed sexual desire, and talked about a time we might be together in the future. I was not attracted to him physically, but of course I was vulnerable to the 'love' and attention. After almost leaving his wife he realized I had been nothing but a grand projection, 'contaminated' (his wife's word) my therapy, and could never talk to me again.
Today my therapist asked me what part I played in that and I became quite angry. He then said that under the law, the therapist did nothing wrong. Maybe he would have received a bad conduct warning, but nothing threatened his license. He then went on to tell me, at my request, a time when it might be appropriate for a therapist to share his or her sexual fantasies with a client. He said it was perfectly appropriate for a therapist with a very attractive client to say 'I'm attracted to you, now what can we do to put that aside so that we can get to the real work'.
He reflected my response back to me as if it were highly distorted. I said his reaction was so much different than a female therapist I'd told about that original psychologist--I felt quite damaged from that (first) relationship and I was expressing today how the therapist never had any consequences from it. I also said it may indeed color my trust with a male therapist. I said his reaction was not 'protective ' of me, and he seemed to almost ridicule that. I was flustered and didn't know how exactly to articulate my response to his feedback.
He said I was coming up with reasons to 'blemish' him. I said I was trying to the best of my ability to be honest and forthcoming--that I'd come in and expressed a lot of pain and asked for help. I said I was trying to be honest today and felt like I almost got punished for it--another word he seemed baffled by.
He said quite frankly he didn't know what to do and asked me if I wanted to set up another session or not. I lack clarity around this because I feel so easily rejected and I project that everywhere--even in this situation I wanted him to give me another response rather than that one. I said I felt like he was saying my reactions are so distorted, and I am having such a problem that this might not work--which made me feel terrible, (but I didn't say that).
FYI-- He said he was trained in Transactional Analysis, Gestault therapy, some other things and IPTSD (??) --some short term thing where each session is on video.
I am so frigging confused, here really. He said almost dramatically--"I'll tell you one thing--I expected this to happen". I asked him if he thought any person could just drop in and after a few sessions be immediately comfortable discussing all intimate details and he said no. I said I didn't want to be coddled--because I don't. But I was trying to say I need a connection, and to feel cared about. He brought up that he inquired into a job contact for me, and said he doesn't do that for all his patients. I said that I had considered and appreciated that, and put in 'evidence' for the other side.
I said no matter what my 'part' in the relationship was with that other psychologist, I was young and he was in a position of power and I felt my trust was violated. He said he was *not* condoning the guys behavior and that I was just interpreting it that way. He said I tend to stay in relationships that aren't good for me--why did I stay in that one, he wanted to know.
I want to know--is this another one of those relationships--or am I working something out about them? I really don't trust something about him, but after talking to him I don't trust myself enough to trust my distrust. I don't want to blow an opportunity. At the same time I want to feel somehow seen or understood and it seems like there is a great big hunk missing here--or else I have a huge blind spot and am missing something right in front of me.
Can anyone see it?This makes me think maybe I was the one creating all the havoc in my last relationship--it seems to validate the males in my life telling me I 'over-react' to things. I'm feeling confused and afraid.
Sigh. Thanks.
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2003, at 23:31:18
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
Kara Lynne, I'm not sure whether the issue is right or wrong. (Although his comment today on your part of what happened with your old therapist seems totally out of line to me, as did his remark about expecting this to happen.) The point is that this is a very confrontational therapist, as you've described him. He likes to confront. He's very active. He's got a sort of in your face style.
I'm sure there are people who respond to that style of therapy. Are you one of them? If you feel he can be helpful to you, then you can stick with him and learn what you can from him. If that style isn't helpful to you, there are tons of therapists with different orientations and different styles to choose from. You don't have to stay with this one just because you began therapy with him.
I'm not saying that terminating with this guy is the right thing to do, because only you know that. But you seemed pretty sure going in that this wasn't the right therapist for you. What made you change your mind?
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2003, at 23:36:15
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
I'm sorry, Kara Lynne. That really didn't come out the way I would have liked. I think maybe I have some transference issues with your therapist, and probably shouldn't comment on him anymore. :)
Posted by emmaley on September 16, 2003, at 23:59:03
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
Wow, just want to really say that what a rigorous session to go through, such courage for going in deep to assess things for yourself and asking for feedback here.
I feel your confusion. Hang in there. Sometimes it takes some time for these emotions to settle.....hope you are taking good care of yourself right now. You deserve it.
Sending you lots of support.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 0:16:21
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long) » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on September 16, 2003, at 23:36:15
I understood exactly what you were saying. It didn't come out wrong at all. In fact it is helpful--I said that before and I still mean it.
I'm going to watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and answer your question when I come back.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 1:13:46
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long) » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on September 16, 2003, at 23:31:18
My friend just said, "Kara, I'm going to call him and cancel your next appointment for you."
I might let her.
I guess what made me stay was thinking there might be something about myself I need to find out. It may be that I need to learn how to terminate therapy with him.
Also I got so confused from what he said about the other therapist. While I don't want to stay victimized by the incident, it was that kind of rationalization that made me stay there too long to begin with (that there was no law being breached and nothing was really 'wrong'.) So it's all adding to this one wound of unresolved conflict I guess, I don't know.
I have the name of one other male therapist. Maybe I will make an appt. (and not tell the first first?) with him just to see the difference in the meantime. I would also like to go in there at least one more time (if I do leave) without being so reactive. For some reason that seems important to me.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 1:17:03
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long), posted by emmaley on September 16, 2003, at 23:59:03
Hello enmaley,
Thank you for your support. I was reading a little of your thread above and you express yourself so eloquently. I was really touched reading about your experience. If fact after I read what you wrote I thought *those* are the kind of qualities I'm looking for in a male therapist--so it's even more interesting to get feedback from you about this. I wish I had a had a good local referral!Thanks again.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 17, 2003, at 1:23:16
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
kara lynn, *sigh* God I wish I could be of more help to you on this issue. I read your whole post, and I have been where you're at (exactly).
Geez, I wish I could give you advice here, but it may not even be my place, let alone, I really don't know what to say except that I am sorry you are going through this with this therapist.
Therapy is tough, it's not always easy, I don't think I need to even tell you that. I had a similar type of therapist who asked me similar questions, and I questioned whether or not this therapist was going to benefit me and my life in recovery or not, but sometimes that hard to see when you're in it.
This is all about YOU, YOUR LIFE, and what YOU want and need.
I will say this: sometimes therapists *pick at the scabs* in order to first, get to know you a little better, and next, to get you going in therapy. What I mean by *get going* is to get you to talk about what you are feeling, help you to try and change/deal/accept it, without you becoming too dependent on them per say. In my opinion, these are just some of the qualities in a good therapist, however difficult it may seem to a person. I've lived it, and I'm telling about it.
One last thing, the very last sentence in your post states this>>'This makes me think maybe I was the one creating all the havoc in my last relationship--it seems to validate the males in my life telling me I 'over-react' to things. I'm feeling confused and afraid'
***Please, 1st, do not take the full responsibility in your last relationship~it takes two to tango. Maybe you can go back and look at YOUR part in that relationship with this therapist's help in guiding you through it? Maybe that isn't what is reasonable or what you want, it's just a suggestion from me.
***Maybe look at the 'males' in your life. How are you reacting to other males from your past abuse, experiences, etc.? Are you really over-reacting to things, or are the ones who said that to you at some certain part in your life an issue of *consider the source*
I understand totally that you're confused and afraid, and I wish I could wave that wand and things would just be dandy in all of this for you. But I can't.
But I did want you to know that I read your post and I wanted to offer what I could~it's all I can offer. I know for me, that once I got past all the transference issues (and there were many), I was able to benefit more in therapy and felt better about me at the same time.
Hang in there, I'm here for you if you want me to be.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 2:25:53
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long) » kara lynne, posted by galkeepinon on September 17, 2003, at 1:23:16
Thank you gal. You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to hear more about your therapy and how it ended up for you, sometime.
It has taken me so long in many ways to regain my empowerment from the relationships I've had with men--and I couldn't even see it for so long. I stayed in abusive relationships because I thought it was normal. That's why I have to be so careful here--when I say I don't want to remain a victim and blame it all on the other person, but I don't want to remain a victim by staying in a bad relationship and not realizing I'm being victimized. Oh I'm positively riddling myself with contradictions, please forgive me.
I *do* need to consider the source. But it's so difficult when your damage skews your perception in exactly the one place you need it.
I'm going to think about this and I'll try to explain it a little better after I sleep (soo tired tonight). I need to clarify it for myself, God knows.
Thank you so much for your support, I do want you here.
Posted by emmaley on September 17, 2003, at 8:52:12
In reply to enmaly, posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 1:17:03
Hi Kara,
Thank you for sharing your experience from reading what I posted! I am touched.
It sounds like you are feeling a bit lighter, and thinking about what you need? I really feel that it takes such courage to allow self-doubt to be there in order to grow further. I also feel like I know how scary it can get when we do allow those doubts to be there, and how that makes it so brave that you want to "check things out" with these doubts. (I feel like I am wording this so poorly....hope this doesn't feel too intrusive. Please let me know if it feels that way.)
Healing is something so personal; there really is something very sacred about it. I really believe the desire to heal and grow further has so much power, and I feel like I am sensing that desire from you. I am more than happy to share more with you in terms of therapeutic experiences. Just let me know what you need?
Sending you support.
Posted by fallsfall on September 17, 2003, at 9:35:23
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
I certainly can relate about why you are so very confused. When someone who is (by definition) "right" feels wrong - how can you tell if you are right (and they are wrong) or if they are right (and you are, as usual, wrong). If that sounded confusing and confused it is because it was.
I'm not going to be much help to you, Kara, with this one. I can understand and sympathize (oh, too well). When we are in therapy we are doubting out judgement, so how can we trust ourselves enough to know when the therapy is bad?
When the pain of my therapy caused me to tell my forever therapist that I was leaving I was completely confused. I saw my pdoc (who works across the hall from her) soon after. I was COMPLETELY unsure of my decision. There was no way for me to analyze and weigh the options and do those kinds of mathy things that make me comfortable. I asked him if I was right to leave. He was the only one who had talked to both of us, the only one who knew both sides of the story. He said that he thought I should leave. I held on to that and managed to leave. I know that leaving was the right thing for me to do - she was hurting me more than helping me. But I trusted her so much, that it took outside intervention (my pdoc, and Babble) to see that maybe she wasn't right.
From reading your post, I don't like what he has said. I think he isn't the right style for you, I think that he may have some of the traits of that first (oh, I am so sorry) therapist. I don't get good vibes. Can you see your counselor and talk to her about this? I needed an authority to tell me it was OK to go.
You have so, so, so much on your plate, Kara Lynne. Both your ex and your therapist are Huge deals. Try to give yourself a little room and a little time. Breathe deeply.
And eat ice cream (I had Red Raspberry Chip last night).
Posted by HannahW on September 17, 2003, at 12:32:10
In reply to I am really so very confused. (long), posted by kara lynne on September 16, 2003, at 22:19:23
What concerns me is how this therapist seems to be focused more on himself than on you. The therapist is supposed to put all of his own needs aside and focus exclusively on yours. That his job, and that's what you pay him for. A few examples:
>...that I was making it sound as if he were some sort of voyeur or something
This isn't about him. If you felt pried into, he should have respected that and apologized, not gotten defensive.
Was his insistence that you talk about sex appropriate to the conversation at the time? Or did he just seem curious? To tell you the truth, there are a few clues in what you wrote (such as his defending the deplorable bahavior of your last therapist) that make me wonder if he's attracted to you and was acting on that.
>He said it was perfectly appropriate for a therapist with a very attractive client to say 'I'm attracted to you, now what can we do to put that aside so that we can get to the real work'
Beg your pardon? That would be completely inappropriate! A therapist is not supposed to disclose his feelings about a patient, and the statement, "now what can WE do to put that aside" is also totally off base. WE don't have to do anything. It's HIS issue that he needs to work out outside of your therapy session.
>He said I was coming up with reasons to 'blemish' him
Blemish him? Again, he's being totally self-centered in needing you to keep his image sparkling in the eyes of both of you.
>He said almost dramatically--"I'll tell you one thing--I expected this to happen"
He's putting himself above you in a childish, "I told you so!" way. He's making himself feel superior again. He got defensive in response to your feelings (which never should have happened) and he had to regain his authority and superiority. Naturally, in putting himself up, that automatically puts you down.
This guy scares me. He's putting his own needs and feelings ahead of yours, and in my opinion, you're not safe with him. If it were me, I'd run, not walk, out of his office and find a new therapist in a hurry. The sooner you can talk about this experience, the less time it will have to fester in you.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 12:38:15
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long) » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on September 17, 2003, at 9:35:23
-. He said that he thought I should leave-
Ahh. The magic sentence. As soon as you said it I thought, 'That's what I need'. You know another stupid thing playing in the back of my mind is that he gave me a job lead--at a place he patrons. So I would a) maybe get the job (which I HOPE I do by the way) and b) have to see him there. But I don't have to stay in therapy with him because of a job lead, do I?
I don't think I have to leave therapy feeling bad about myself each time and having to wonder if it's my fault. That doesn't seem right. Again, it is so hard for exactly the reasons you describe--you're in there to question yourself to begin with. And although I don't want to be coddled I do think I can feel more validated (???).
I think there are other things to work on in therapy besides whatever this dynamic is between me and him--but then I do of course start to pick away at myself with the fear that maybe he is right.
I really don't get what he said about the other therapist. Really truly. I would love to tell the story to a 'panel of experts', male and female, and get their opinions. I have a box of loveletters from that psychologist to this day sitting in my closet. He asked yesterday if I was flattered. When I first mentioned it I think I had said of course I was, but the fact that he focuses there kind of --makes me want to--- hit him. He got all agitated when I told him, trying to 'get' me to admit that I'd felt flattered. That's no big mystery to me--of *course* I felt flattered. What was so pathetic was that I had so little sense of self worth and empowerment that I had to get it from a relationship that would be so damaging to me--and I stayed in it for *years*. So I pick daddy again, or whatever. No sh*t, Sherlock. Do we focus on that in this situation, or that daddy didn't do his job well here either?
I said yesterday that this guy said, when I first came into therapy, "I will be the first male in your life not to sexualize the relationship. I'm going to love you until you love yourself. etc. etc. etc." He was my hero.
This was my therapist's reply: "He didn't sexualize the relationship."
HOW CAN HE SAY THAT????? HOW IS TELLING ME HIS SEXUAL DREAMS ABOUT ME NOT SEXUALIZING THE RELATIONSHIP? Could he really be that obtuse? Or is he just doing a semantic power trip? I know we never had sex. That's all he'll say in return. Here is the final irony--and I won't blame anyone for never speaking to me again once I divulge this:
Before this shrink I had gone to another. I saw him, I don't know, six times or so. I thought I was in love with him. Well guess what? We stopped the therapeutic relationship and were together for a year. (This may explain why I haven't tried to be in therapy with a man for about 13 years.) Although he clearly breached the law I feel less conflicted about that relationship than I do with this other one, who I saw directly after. I went to him and told him about the first relationship and the depression I couldn't get out of. I met shrink 2 at a conference that I went to with shrink 1 for Transpersonal Psychology, where you meet all these different practitioners and get a feel for what kind of work they do.
Ok, it gets sicker and sicker, I know. But that's the end of it. I still don't see how he could say that that guy didn't sexualize the relationship.
By the way I did go into therapy with a woman after that.
Oh, and one final note: This guy said yesterday that he's also a sex therapist.
Oy vey.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 12:43:33
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long), posted by HannahW on September 17, 2003, at 12:32:10
He does get defensive! That's exactly what I was thinking in the back of my mind!
Oh thank you for your objective, honest reply Hannah. I know you'll think I'm a nutcase after you read my last post, but I really needed to hear what you said.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 12:47:37
In reply to Re: enmaly, posted by emmaley on September 17, 2003, at 8:52:12
Not intrusive at all. On the contrary, I really appreciate what you have to say.
Funny, when I read your post I saw, " There is really something so scared about it (healing)"---but you had said 'sacred'. Hmmm.
How long have you been with your therapist?
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 13:06:40
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long), posted by HannahW on September 17, 2003, at 12:32:10
I just wanted to add: I *had* brought up the topic of sex that day--as well as a myriad of other things. I alluded to something I had talked about initially that had to do with my ex's lack of sexual interest or desire. I said I wasn't feeling well physically--that I was tired and achy, and I mentioned that I felt my sexual energy had been thwarted. In fact I said that I had significantly lost interest in sex with my worsening depression. It was one sentence out of 43 minutes and he just zoned in like a vulture. He did agree with me yesterday that that is where the focus on the session went, even thought I had brought up so many things--like, oh, wanting to die.
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 13:30:25
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long), posted by HannahW on September 17, 2003, at 12:32:10
About the possibility of his being attracted to me: A few weeks back I was discussing my insecurity around getting a job. He said I should be alright going out there because "You're not exactly Quasimoto, you know." If that was a compliment he is strikingly like my ex.
Could that really be extrapololated?
Am I being completely stupid?
Posted by starfish on September 17, 2003, at 14:23:24
In reply to and lastly, posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 13:30:25
> About the possibility of his being attracted to me: A few weeks back I was discussing my insecurity around getting a job. He said I should be alright going out there because "You're not exactly Quasimoto, you know." If that was a compliment he is strikingly like my ex.
>
> Could that really be extrapololated?
>
> Am I being completely stupid?Hi Kara,
I've been reading your posts. I personally don't think he is acting appropriately. What kind of therapist is he?
starfish
Posted by galkeepinon on September 17, 2003, at 16:24:04
In reply to Re: I am really so very confused. (long), posted by HannahW on September 17, 2003, at 12:32:10
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 17:11:55
In reply to Re: and lastly, posted by starfish on September 17, 2003, at 14:23:24
I have talked to many good people about this. I have gotten very good feedback here. I will indeed go back next week, but I am prepared with what I will say (non reactively).
It will be my last session.
Wish me luck! Next Tues. at 11am
Posted by fallsfall on September 17, 2003, at 18:25:37
In reply to Less confused now., posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 17:11:55
Good for you. Stick to your guns. You've done a really good job of figuring this out. I'm proud of you.
I think a woman therapist might be a better bet for you. I just wrote up advice on finding a new therapist (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030905/msgs/260173.html). It is NOT your fault. Your previous (and current?) therapists have behaved unethically. You did nothing wrong. Even if you had thrown yourself at them (which I don't think you did), it is their job to keep the boundaries. You need to be willing to KNOW that this guy has done the wrong thing. That knowledge will sustain you when you feel like you have screwed up (and you haven't).
Tuesday at 11. Gee, that was the time I used to see my old therapist. That was good for a hearty laugh!
Posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 20:41:58
In reply to Re: Less confused now. » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on September 17, 2003, at 18:25:37
That *is* funny! Only now I had to cancel the appt. due to a possible job lead. So I still haven't rescheduled...
Posted by ridesredhorses on September 17, 2003, at 22:52:22
In reply to Re: Less confused now. fallsfall, posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 20:41:58
I have been reading so fast to see what you decide to do, KaraLynne. As I read your first post I just got a lump in my stomach. I only know that my own therapist has always made me feel safe. He will say, "is is ok if I make some observations that will involve sexual issues?" or maybe "do you feel like talking about those issues today?" And I have alway been able answer honestly, and if the answer is 'no' we just go on. I used to think psychologists were like gods, all-knowing people who have worked it all out. I now know that they are just specialists...like plumbers...some of them do good work, and some just don't. Some of them are honest and hard working, some are lazy..and some of them will take your silver. You seem to have good guts and a great deal of strength. Remember, if you decide not to go back to see this guy one more time, it's ok. You don't need to 'win' or show him your strength. He has shown you that he can be insulting in a very passive agressive way. I'm not sure he deserves to see you again.
I hope you find a situation in which you feel safe. Best wishes.
Posted by kara lynne on September 18, 2003, at 2:06:11
In reply to Re: Less confused now. fallsfall, posted by ridesredhorses on September 17, 2003, at 22:52:22
Thank you! It's interesting, because I fully intended to go one more time, but I really had something come up right at that time, and we are having a hard time rescheduling. I am considering giving up the 'one more time' approach.
Thank you for your feedback. Sometimes I feel like I'm walking around with blinders on, missing things that are right in front of me. But I guess where we're wounded we do that.
I still don't fully understand this. My pdoc (not that he's the final authority) highly recommended him and said no-one has been disappointed that he's sent them to. So of course it's easy to think I'm the problem. Maybe his approach works for some. It's not that I don't want to be told the truth--I prefer truth. That's what made me try to investigate this further--was I really coming up on some huge resistance that I needed to look at? Some sabatoging aspect of my behavior that I am missing?
But I think the bottom line turns out to be that even if that's true, I can still work it out with a different kind of therapist. At least I hope so. I must admit I'm kind of confused again over what is a breach of boundary between a therapist and a patient. I don't understand how this guy could say what he did about my prior relationship-- but at the same time say he's not condoning it. He said *maybe* it was bad conduct. MAYBE! It took me years to even acknowledge that it might have been an abuse of power because I believed everything that therapist told me at the time; all of the reasons he gave me for our relationship being 'special'. He even said not to talk about it with anyone because no one would understand. And again, he was 50, I was 24. 24, depressed, and paying him--albeit minimally. And with a past of being betrayed by the men in my family. So you tell me (not you, but You): was that 'maybe' poor conduct?
Oooh. I'm all riled again, and I have to get to sleep!
Posted by emmaley on September 18, 2003, at 3:15:37
In reply to Re: enmaly, posted by kara lynne on September 17, 2003, at 12:47:37
Wow, Kara, I am so happy that you worked out what is best for you! Sounds very mature to me. :)
I have been with my therapist for the past year and half; the first six months I went once a week and the past year twice a week. It's been a tough ride at times, but ultimately the relationship is what is making me feel safe and able to build trust. He has been very kind, which is the one quality that touches me the most. He also is very sensitive, able to grasp what I say and tune into my emotions (of course not all the time, but who is perfect?) Overall, I will say that it is his willingness and ability to hold my growth and needs above his that makes it a space where I feel comfortable to work in.
I understand what you said about wanting to find out if there were things that you missed and want to look at. I tend to feel the same way, too. I am learning how to make it okay to allow myself a safe space to tackle unresolved issues. Sometimes we get there all the same, as long as we are committed. I applaud your sense of committment to your personal growth. :)
And I think you are right. There is something both sacred and scared about healing....isn't it?
:) :) :)
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