![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 55 to 79 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:14:00
In reply to Re: Hope You Find What You're Looking For Trigger, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 19:54:59
My opinion - You have to learn to acknowledge and move on. Try to learn not to dwell on things said or done or perceived to have been said or done. Try not to be so impulsive in your reactions to things said or done. Before you respond or react, take a step back and think about it. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we misinterpret another's words and then we react negatively or defensively and we end up with a chain reaction of hurt and frustration, etc. I know this is a completely situation, but whenever two of my staff are having a conflict, before I will step in and try to resolve it, I tell each them to take a walk or sleep on it and then sit down together and discuss what has happened (because, often when we have taken the time to cool off and assess the situation more rationally, we see things in a different light). You know, I have never had to step in and resolve a conflict. The individuals have been able to resolve it themselves and, in the end, have strengthened their working relationship.
Deneb, you can't make people like you and not everybody is going to like you for the same reasons. Asking people what you have to do to make them like you will just end up making you a disingenuous person, and that will wear thin eventually. Spend some time trying to figure out who you are and what makes you happy, and then worry about what others think.
> I'm sorry. I don't want to kill myself anymore. I'm feeling a little better now. I'm not good at looking at situations from other people's point of view. I'm sorry I can't interact like a normal person. I'm not very good at this. I still don't know how to behave here so people will like me.
>
> I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will.
>
> Will people like me again if I see another T? I will do that if it means people will like me again.
>
> What do I need to do so people won't ignore me and be my friend again? I'll do anything to not be ignored and have friends again. I just want people to like me.
>
> If I post good things will people respond to me again? I just want people to like me and write good things to me again.
>
> Here is a good thing: I didn't binge or purge today. I think telling my Mom helped. She's reminding me not to binge and checking up on me to make sure I'm not purging.
>
> Deneb
Posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 20:32:33
In reply to Re: hope you find what you're looking for *trigger, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 23:47:35
Sorry, I've been out all day with my sister.
>>>>>>>It's like you're giving up hope on me.
I never once said that, and that's not what I meant to convey. I'm sorry you interpret it that way. It must be hard to feel sad.
>>>>I don't want to do the things needed to recover so I don't have hope.
Like you said, only you can decide what you do and do not want to do. If your decision makes you feel like you have no hope, then that must be a scary feeling. There is always hope when you look for it. I hope you can find what you need.
>>>>>Feel like killing myself now. Have no hope. :-( Sorry if I'm being dramatic.
I'm not a therapist myself so I don't really know how to deal with a statement like that except say that it must be frightening to feel that way. As far as being dramatic, only you can judge that for yourself. I'd never make a comment like that personally about someone else.
There are ways to cope with such feelings, and people to help. If you feel unsafe then I urge you to take care of yourself and go to the emergency.
[I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so I apoligize if I'm being redundant here.]
best, EL
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:46:20
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » dreamboat_annie, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
> I don't know what I did wrong. I need a specific list of things to not write about. I just don't understand.
>
I can't answer that. Perhaps instead of asking for a list of specific things, try to accept that some of the dialogue that has been taking place here has hurt others for their own very personal reasons. What hurts or upsets or triggers one person is not necessarily going to cause the same reactions in another, so a specific list isn't always helpful. Perhaps, re-read some of the posts and try to understand, from the others' experiences, why they may be frustrated or upset or feeling emotionally vulnerable. When we spend more time listening to others, we are better able to communicate with them and better able to understand where they are coming from.
>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
>
No you are not because you have acknowledged at a very early stage that you have a problem with binging and purging. And, I don't think you really want to die. You just want to stop hurting emotionally.
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
I'm sure you will. Maybe you can try journalling, if you are not ready to pursue therapy. When I had constant thoughts of harming myself and was feeling negative and insecure, I would sit for hours just writing everything out - how I was feeling, what I was thinking, how mad I was with so and so . . ., and it seemed to help because it distracted me and got the negative thoughts and emotions out of my head. It really can be cathartic.
> Deneb
Posted by adrift on November 24, 2006, at 21:29:48
In reply to Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
> I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
>
> I hate myself.
>
> Deneb*It sounds like you are too focussed on "making" people like you more then anything else. Its never a good idea to "force" anything, no one is liked by everyone and no one likes everyone! Unfortunately there will be times in life that we need to learn to deal and accept the fact that people are not always what we want or expect them to be. You can't be liked by everyone.
As others have said, start talking to your pdoc about how "you" feel about you and hopefully that will get to the root of what's really bothering you.>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
It sounds like you need to start liking yourself first. Why do you feel the need to prove anything? Start with proving to yourself that you can overcome this.
>
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
> Deneb
It's not easy but attitude truly does have a lot of impact on how we survive in the world. Start telling yourself that you will develop the skills. You yourself said once in a post that you had changed a lot, that means there is room for more change in developing skills, right?
Posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 21:51:41
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » dreamboat_annie, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
>>>>>>I don't know what I did wrong.
For me personally Deneb, it's not about *doing* something wrong. You can do or say or believe whatever you like or need - but I'm just saying that I will also do the same. The fact that I may need to distance myself from certain topics doesn't reflect what I think of your person as a whole, or your humaness. Did you know that people can disagree and STILL like each other? It's a "grey" concept. Sometimes if you only see things is black and white the world seems more hostile (or even *only* hostile). Learning to be able to see the "inbetween" is a part of DBT (incase you were curious). Also, a "bad" person can do "good" things, and a "good" person can do "bad" things. Nobody's spilt into one extreme - nobody is either only one or the other. (that's another grey). That's the type of stuff you learn when doing DBT. You don't need to rehash the past or anything. You don't need to analyze old patterns either. You learn how to function in a more adaptive way for the future. I think that's a lovely idea personally - reclaiming your future, and opening more possibilities, and paving the way for moments of blessed neutral-ness. [Okay, jeez, I'll roll my eyes for all of us ;-)]
But seriously, what if learning new techniques of reflecting and interacting and behaving, what if that freed you up to more fully become the person you are, what if it made your personality flourish, what if it helped your best characteristics stand out even more, instead of erasing it like you fear therapy would. What an awesome "what if".I will never give up on you as a person, but something I've learned in my own therapy is that I can't be responsible for another's actions or their emotions. It's not my job. My job is Me. And it's not your job to take care of me, or anyone else here. We're all grown-up adult women [and men too]. I'm kinda young, but I'm an adult. You're a bit younger than me, but you're an adult too. I'm sure a few others are younger than you, and they're also adults. And that's a great thing - that means we can decide what our own actions are. No one can force you to try another T, as though you were a child - but nobody can STOP you either. I don't know, personally I find that a liberating idea. The best part is, when I finally do something right amid all the cr@p I make myself end up in too, then ALL the credit goes to me, because (even if I didn't reach the goal alone, or whatever) *I* alone set it in motion. Adult Me alone. :-) And it feels good. ANd you can have good feelings too. But just to finish my long-winded point [are you sure ya want me posting to you? ;-)], I will have to avoid content I find jeopardizing to me. I'm enough of a head-case already, you know? And recovery is precarious enough of a thing. But that doesn't mean I won't be able to post to you on other topics, or on the other boards.
One last point, just if you wanted to know, a therapist would stay with you in a different way, through difficult stuff/topics/language/behaviours/etc. that I (and/or other) regular old civilians (most also patient/clients) need to take a step back from for our own mental and emotional states. That's the great thing about T's - they're like a pair of ears that are always there, and you can never say anything "wrong". Anyways, just thought it'd be interesting to know.>>>>>If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
I'd believe anyone who says that they can harm themselves. I know they can. I know some do. I'm sorry you feel so little for yourself. It must be a scary feeling to use your life as a threat. I'd like to find some Crisis Contact numbers for your city. Sometimes they are listed in the back of the phonebook, you can look those up to help yourself. You can learn to cope with suicidal thoughts by talking to your pdoc about them, or a therapist, or another helping professional. However, I don't feel safe being involved in conversations where someone threatens their life based on others potential actions - because I'm not equiped with the skills to deal with that. It doesn't mean I want you to do it, or think you're a bad person, it only means that I personally don't want to be involved in such a situation.
>>>>>I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that.
Most of us didn't do it on our own. If a person's one of the lucky ones, their parents taught them most skills. But for various reasons (not *always* the fault of parents) skills somtimes don't develope, or aren't absorbed, like they're "supposed" to. That's when people go to therapy. Therapy is really like a schoolroom that way - and you can't learn without a teacher. So if stuff isn't learned through growing up as a kid, then, being the adults that we are, we take it into our own hands and put ourselves in an enviroment where we will. We initiate the process ourselves. For one thing, we can sign ourselves up for therapy. ANd when you do that as an adult, it's easier to understand the concept of accepting the person you are at the moment, while working toward making positive changes for the future. Like: I'm a good and worthy person doing the best I can with what I have at the moment, who ALSO must make changes in the way I'm functioning to make sure I have a less chaotic more functional future.
You can learn only if you want to. It's up to you. Only Deneb can change Deneb's life. I've learned you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. But, I believe that deep inside you do have the strength to be that vulnerable and that brave. So even though this is my final post to this thread, I do wish you luck and I hope that you'll do what is best for you in the long run because I wish you less pain.
best, EL
(and i meant what I said, I'll always be around on this board if you ever reach a point where you want to chat about, and are working towards, recovery [from ED or anything else])
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 23:16:33
In reply to No, not hate » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 21:51:41
Some parts of this thread are making me feel really really super extremely bad. Someone make me feel better.
I sort of want those who were uncivil towards me to apologize. I'll apologize for whatever I did wrong. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad, even though I'm not sure what I did.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 0:02:26
In reply to Feeling really super extremely bad, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 23:16:33
> Some parts of this thread are making me feel really really super extremely bad. Someone make me feel better.
I'm sorry you're feeling bad, Deneb, but I have to ask you something: who do you think can make you feel better?
>
> I sort of want those who were uncivil towards me to apologize.Deneb, no one here was uncivil to you. If you believe someone was uncivil in this thread, you know how to report it. I have been watching for it, and I've seen some people get close to the line, but I haven't seen anyone cross it.
What I have seen, though, is that people are being honest about their reactions to your posts, and that sort of honesty is not always pleasant. I hope you can see the distinction between someone being uncivil, and someone saying something you don't want to hear.
Deneb, let me ask you something else. You don't have to answer here on the board, but maybe it's a starting place for you in thinking about whether or not you want to explore treatment options that might help you learn to make yourself feel better: do you see a pattern to your experience on this board? Can you draw any parallels between this experience and others you may have had in the past, whether on this board or another?
Posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 2:20:39
In reply to Re: Feeling really super extremely bad » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 0:02:26
I still have a borderline personality. This whole bulimia thing is a part of it.
I'm doing the best I can. Don't be angry at me. I'm sorry for threatening suicide, it's part of my disorder. This whole mess, me not being able to interact well with others, it's all part of my disorder. I'm doing the best I can. Please don't hate me.
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 5:22:49
In reply to I just realized something, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 2:20:39
Deneb,
I think you know I know a hell of alot about BPD and do consultancy work for our government in the area.
Threatening suicide is ~not~ part of the disorder.
I won't be posting to you anymore, until you get help. You *have* to get help.
Yes I have been where you are, yes I attempted suicide *alot* (but never, ever, once threatened someone else with it).. But, I put my energies into fighting to get the care, help and therapy I needed.. That is what upsets me - your refusal to get help.. I never wanted to continue feeling the way I felt, I never enjoyed it and infact ~hated~ it with a passion. I begged and pleaded for help.. I went to voluntary services only to be turned away.. I went to the government begging for help.. I used charities and an online group specifically for people with BPD - http://www.bpdcentral.com/ BPD Central have a support message board. Give it a try, you might find it more your style than other boards have been.
And, muffled posted a very good post to you on admin explaining why people might get frustrated.. in the thread about this board.
I don't hate you Deneb, I feel frustrated, but there are very very few people I actively hate..
Give BPD Central a try...
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:03:00
In reply to Re: I just realized something » Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 5:22:49
Link to muffled's post..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061018/msgs/706601.html
And I just wantt o say that I never used BPD Central's mesage boards, I used one for people in the UK (and they have a requirement you are in the UK to join), but know people that have found BPD centrals one very useful..
Nikki
Posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:34:35
In reply to muffled's post, and to clear up.., posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:03:00
Nikki the BPD Central forum is for people in relationships with people who have BPD (sometimes diagnosed only by the poster) and feel they have been abused. There is a lot of anger and venting and not altogether accurate information. I do not think it would be at all useful for someone like Deneb. I think it might be quite destructive. At least at a time of crisis.
I really don't think that would be useful at this point much as I hate not to recommend a board called the Nook whose participants call themselves Nookies :).
It's a VERY useful place for people who are trying to get out of relationship with people who are BPD or Narcissistic.I know I know I'm supposed to be self blocked but I did think it was important to point this out.
>
> And I just wantt o say that I never used BPD Central's mesage boards, I used one for people in the UK (and they have a requirement you are in the UK to join), but know people that have found BPD centrals one very useful..
>
> Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:49:53
In reply to BPD Central is not for people with BPD » NikkiT2, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:34:35
Oh, sorry then.. I know they used to have a forum for people suffering.. but it is a number of years since I visited there..
Let me see where the Americans I know went to then..
Nikki
Posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
In reply to Please keep it civil, everyone, posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:30:09
http://www.mirror-mirror.org/applove.htm
Too many people believe that eating disorders are only about food and weight issues, when in reality, those are just the symptoms of underlying problems. Below is a list of some things to keep in mind when approaching someone.
Avoid talking about food and weight, those are not the real issues
Assure them that they are not alone and that you love them and want to help in any way that you can
Encourage them to seek help
Do not comment on their weight or appearanceDo not blame the individual and do not get angry with them
Be patient, recovery takes time
Listen to them, do not be quick to give opinions and advice
Do not take on the role of a therapist
You must also be careful with the remarks you make to the person suffering. Below is a list of a few remarks that should never be made because they will usually only drive the person away or cause them more inner pain and guilt.
"Why are you doing this to me?" We aren't doing this to you, we are doing this to ourselves. A comment like that would only cause us more guilt and make us feel worse about ourselves.
"You're just doing this for attention." We do not do this for attention. Most people with eating disorders would be happy to just keep it a secret from everyone. People with eating disorders are in a lot of emotional pain and this is their way of dealing with it. They need to be encourage to seek help, they do not need to be told they are only doing it for attention
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 11:24:15
In reply to How to Support and Help, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
http://www.bpdresources.com/supportBPs.html#MixedBoards
as it has loads of online resources for north america based BPD support..
Nikki
Posted by ClearSkies on November 25, 2006, at 11:33:17
In reply to How to Support and Help, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
Thank you for posting this, Zazenducky. I know that I have been pretty inept in trying to give support to those suffering with ED. I feel like I repeatedly insert my foot into my mouth.
Now I have a better appreciation of what's helpful and what isn't.ClearSkies
Posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
In reply to someone sent me this..., posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 11:24:15
Do you want me to go away to another forum? I don't want to go away. I like it here.
I want you to accept me for who I am. I'm already getting help. Are you going to ignore me until I "get better", whatever that means?
The more people tell me to get help, the more I will resist getting help. You can't tell me what to do. You can't force me to do anything.
I'm angry and confused. I'm throwing a tantrum. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just throwing a fit. I'm angry. I'll say anything.
I feel abandoned.
When I was little my Mom would try to get me to eat when I didn't want to. The more she tried the more I didn't want to eat. But if she took away the food I'll cry and cry because I want the food.
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 16:36:07
In reply to Throwing a tantrum, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
I offered you *additional* support deneb.
Not instead of.. but *additional*.
Posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 16:56:50
In reply to Throwing a tantrum, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
> Do you want me to go away to another forum? I don't want to go away. I like it here.
No one has asked you to go away, Deneb. Suggestions have been made regarding other forums you might *also* find helpful. I think it's nice of Nikki to offer you that information. She told you that she found it helpful to her when she was struggling, and offered it to you now, while you're struggling.
>
> I want you to accept me for who I am. I'm already getting help. Are you going to ignore me until I "get better", whatever that means?Who are you writing this to, Deneb? Is there one specific person you're asking for acceptance from?
Just for the record, though, I have to point out a contradiction in what you've written here. You say here that you're "already getting help," yet in earlier posts you have written that you don't want to get help right now. Perhaps it would be helpful for communication if we all made some distinction between the sort of help you are getting and the sort of help you're resisting? That way, there may be less confusion.
I'm not sure just what sort of treatment you get from your pdoc? It doesn't sound as though you get psychotherapy from her, which is the sort of treatment most people here have suggested to you. But it also sounds as though you might be getting more than simply psychopharmalogical treatment from her? I'm thinking that there's some confusion in terminology that's tripping people up about this. Maybe if that confusion is cleared up, it won't look as though there's any contradiction in what you're writing.
For the record, I do not mean to imply that I think you are not getting treatment from your pdoc. I believe you, I'm only offering a piece of information which I think might be helpful to you.
>
> The more people tell me to get help, the more I will resist getting help. You can't tell me what to do. You can't force me to do anything.
>
> I'm angry and confused. I'm throwing a tantrum. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just throwing a fit. I'm angry. I'll say anything.
>
> I feel abandoned.
>
> When I was little my Mom would try to get me to eat when I didn't want to. The more she tried the more I didn't want to eat. But if she took away the food I'll cry and cry because I want the food.
>
> Deneb*Deneb, I'm going to chop this into two pieces. I'm also going to warn you that I don't think you'll like what I'm about to write. I want you to know, though, that I am only writing it because I do care that you are in pain right now. (I have things that I need to do for my real life right now, and I'm taking time to offer you a reply to your post.)
First, your statement that you "feel abandoned." I wonder if you are misinterpreting what you feel? I say that because you're hardly abandoned on this thread -- there are more responses here than there have been to any other thread I remember on this board! I don't think it's abandonment.
The responses you're getting, though, probably aren't the responses you'd like to get. That's another issue. It must feel pretty awful to read what people here have had to say, it must be very painful. Can you separate out the pain you feel, from what has actually been said? Sometimes it can help me if I diagram this sort of thing in a sort of outline: what are the actual messages I'm being given? Maybe if you can summarize the messages that way, you might not feel quite so much pain? Or, maybe you would find something useful to you, that could help you learn from this experience.
The second chunk is this:
No one here is suggesting you get psychotherapy for their own benefit. There's only one person who could potentially benefit from you getting psychotherapeutic treatment.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but in my case, when I suggest it to you it's because I do not like to see you in so much pain. I see therapy as a way to learn skills that can be applied to life in such a way that pain is minimized. Therefore, because I do not like to see you in pain, I suggest something I believe will help you learn to minimize your pain.
You're right, Deneb. No one can force you to do anything. While it's hard for me not to try to convince you that therapy would be good for you, that has no relevance to whether or not you do anything at all. It's only about my own issues, that lead me to offer advice I think is helpful, whether or not it's accepted, or even valued.
So, Deneb, how's your weekend going? How are your classes going? What have you done offline this weekend? Did you enjoy it?
Peace.
Posted by adrift on November 25, 2006, at 18:10:32
In reply to Throwing a tantrum, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
>
> The more people tell me to get help, the more I will resist getting help. You can't tell me what to do. You can't force me to do anything.
I find this very confusing! You come hear and post for help, and when it is suggested that you seek professional help you get upset? Who wouldn't suggest that someone get a t when they are threatening on an online message board that if the posters don't adhere to your standard of responses that you will kill yourself? What kind of responses are you looking for? The responses you get and have been getting are very thought out. Is it hugs you are looking for?>
> I'm angry and confused. I'm throwing a tantrum. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just throwing a fit. I'm angry. I'll say anything.
Well, that makes two of us confused. I feel that people have been supportive of you, what I do see is that you rarely respond to the posts of support. Did you read them all? Im not sure. ou have so many responses, how are you being ignored? Can you help me better understand that?
>
> I feel abandoned.see above
>
> When I was little my Mom would try to get me to eat when I didn't want to. The more she tried the more I didn't want to eat. But if she took away the food I'll cry and cry because I want the food.
>
> Deneb*It is important to remember that this is a message board not real life and you are no longer little. Im sorry if I sound harsh.
Posted by madeline on November 25, 2006, at 18:29:41
In reply to Throwing a tantrum, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
"The more people tell me to get help, the more I will resist getting help. You can't tell me what to do. You can't force me to do anything."
Do you think that is a wise practice Deneb?"It is the province of knowledge to speak and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen"
---Oliver Wendell Holmes
Posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 21:07:04
In reply to Re: Throwing a tantrum -- long response » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 16:56:50
> > Do you want me to go away to another forum? I don't want to go away. I like it here.
>
> No one has asked you to go away, Deneb. Suggestions have been made regarding other forums you might *also* find helpful. I think it's nice of Nikki to offer you that information. She told you that she found it helpful to her when she was struggling, and offered it to you now, while you're struggling.Sorry Nikki. I misinterpreted things. Thank-you for helping me out. I must seem pretty ungrateful.
> > I want you to accept me for who I am. I'm already getting help. Are you going to ignore me until I "get better", whatever that means?
>
> Who are you writing this to, Deneb? Is there one specific person you're asking for acceptance from?Not really. Perhaps everyone.
> Just for the record, though, I have to point out a contradiction in what you've written here. You say here that you're "already getting help," yet in earlier posts you have written that you don't want to get help right now. Perhaps it would be helpful for communication if we all made some distinction between the sort of help you are getting and the sort of help you're resisting? That way, there may be less confusion.
>
> I'm not sure just what sort of treatment you get from your pdoc? It doesn't sound as though you get psychotherapy from her, which is the sort of treatment most people here have suggested to you. But it also sounds as though you might be getting more than simply psychopharmalogical treatment from her? I'm thinking that there's some confusion in terminology that's tripping people up about this. Maybe if that confusion is cleared up, it won't look as though there's any contradiction in what you're writing.I'm already getting psychotherapy from my pdoc. I think some people think it is not enough because I'm not getting better, but I think it's enough. I talked a bit about what my pdoc tells me and someone said she's a good T. I don't think there can be much difference between what a psychologist tells me and what my pdoc tells me. I like my pdoc and I see her once a week now. We talk for 45 minutes about what is going on with me. Every session she starts off by asking me how I'm doing. I then say OK, or good and then she says, "Tell me more." Then I talk about what's been going on with me. She's helping me figure out what brings on my binges and purges. She led me to see that I binge or purge when I don't feel productive in my studying. She says the purging is punishment. She helps me see that things aren't black and white: that I don't have to either study lots and lots or not study at all, that I don't have to not eat or eat too much. There is middle ground. My pdoc really is my T. Just because she's a pdoc doesn't mean she's not a good T.
> First, your statement that you "feel abandoned." I wonder if you are misinterpreting what you feel? I say that because you're hardly abandoned on this thread -- there are more responses here than there have been to any other thread I remember on this board! I don't think it's abandonment.Yeah, you're right. I'm confusing things. When I hear people say they are going to disengage with me I sort of feel like they are giving up on me, or abandoning me. But it's not because they also say they will be here for me when I want their help.
> The responses you're getting, though, probably aren't the responses you'd like to get. That's another issue. It must feel pretty awful to read what people here have had to say, it must be very painful. Can you separate out the pain you feel, from what has actually been said? Sometimes it can help me if I diagram this sort of thing in a sort of outline: what are the actual messages I'm being given? Maybe if you can summarize the messages that way, you might not feel quite so much pain? Or, maybe you would find something useful to you, that could help you learn from this experience.
It's hard to do that, but I will try.
>
> The second chunk is this:
>
> No one here is suggesting you get psychotherapy for their own benefit. There's only one person who could potentially benefit from you getting psychotherapeutic treatment.
>
> I can't speak for anyone else here, but in my case, when I suggest it to you it's because I do not like to see you in so much pain. I see therapy as a way to learn skills that can be applied to life in such a way that pain is minimized. Therefore, because I do not like to see you in pain, I suggest something I believe will help you learn to minimize your pain.I don't know what is wrong with me. I see now that you're right, people only suggest it to me because they don't want to see me in pain. Sometimes I think people want to change me when they tell me to get therapy. I start thinking that they think there is something inherently wrong with me that needs to be fixed.
> So, Deneb, how's your weekend going? How are your classes going? What have you done offline this weekend? Did you enjoy it?
>
> Peace.My classes are nearing the end now. It's almost time for exams. I'm getting stressed out. I really have to study.
Thanks for writing to me Racer. I know you care now. It means a lot to me.
Maybe a lot of people care about me and that is why they write to me.
Deneb*
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 25, 2006, at 21:18:42
In reply to Re: Throwing a tantrum -- long response » Racer, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 21:07:04
> Maybe a lot of people care about me and that is why they write to me.
>
> Deneb*It's obvious that people do care about you, Deneb, and that they want to help you and like having you here. Keep that tucked away in the back of your mind when you start to feel distressed, ok, and try to remind yourself of that when the feelings of being abandoned well up. You are liked and cared about and refreshingly open. You are one of a kind and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2006, at 18:02:36
In reply to How to Support and Help, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
> I think it is best if I just remove myself from this situation completely. sorry again. I am trying to be honest, but I don't know how to do that and remain correct in the babble way, because I don't understand the rules.
It may best for some posters if they remove themselves, but this is also an opportunity to work on interacting supportively. Which can be hard, and frustrating both for those want help and those who want to help.
Thanks, gardenergirl, for the civility reminder, and zazenducky, for passing on those tips. I think it would help to keep one tip in particular in mind:
* Do not blame the individual
Or, in civility terms, not posting anything that could lead someone to feel accused. Even if they ask in the first place. Being honest isn't always supportive. For example:
> When you posted on the cancer board, did you have cancer? Do you think that has anything to do with why people became upset there?
> you ask for help then reject it.
> When we have acted in such a way or said something that causes a number of others frustration, then I think we need to step back and see how we could have done or said things differently.
> That is what upsets me - your refusal to get help..
> I have to point out a contradiction in what you've written here.
> you rarely respond to the posts of support.
> Tell me you like me. If you don't, I will feel like killing myself.
The idea here is to be supportive. If you're not sure if something will be supportive, one thing you can do is ask yourself how you think the other person will react. If you think they'll appreciate it, that's a sign that it might be supportive. If you think they won't, that's a sign that it might not.
Also, a lot of what's been posted here has been great, I just wanted to focus on this one issue.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Deneb on November 26, 2006, at 19:37:40
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2006, at 18:02:36
Sorry for not always being supportive. Thanks for the tips Dr. Bob. I will ask myself how I think the other person will react. I'm not always very good at determining others' reactions.
I'm sorry I sort of threatened suicide again. Sorry everyone. I got upset, but I'm ok now.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on November 26, 2006, at 20:03:55
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2006, at 18:02:36
Thank you for taking the time to help us all improve our communication skills. There is one part that I am a little unclear about, though, and hope you'll help me understand a bit better.
> Or, in civility terms, not posting anything that could lead someone to feel accused. Even if they ask in the first place. Being honest isn't always supportive. For example:
>
> > When you posted on the cancer board, did you have cancer? Do you think that has anything to do with why people became upset there?
>I thought that was OK, because I was not saying there was anything wrong with a behavior, just asking a question which I thought would help clarify an experience? (I'm trying not to use any names, which makes this harder to phrase...)
Or, to put it another way, PosterX was asked a question: "What did you learn on the cancer site?" PosterX's answer was "to suffer in silence." I was trying to help, by asking a question I thought might help clarify the "lesson" from that site.
Is there a way I could have presented that which would have been more appropriate? Or is that something I shouldn't try to express at all?
Of course, I could have said something much more straightforward, like, "No, no one is saying you have to 'suffer in silence' here." Hm...
Maybe for Christmas, someone will give me a new style?
This though:> > I have to point out a contradiction in what you've written here.
>That isn't what I meant, anyway, so I am sorry for it. I meant "an apparent contradiction," because what I was trying to do there was to clear up the confusion: Deneb says she won't get a T, and says she's getting treatment, and I didn't think everyone realized that she got more than meds from her pdoc. I wasn't trying to say that Deneb was contradicting herself, but to help show that she wasn't actually contradicting herself. Does that make any sense? Or should I trade in my shovel for a ladder to get out of this hole?
Thanks!
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