![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by adrift on November 19, 2006, at 13:25:17
In reply to Spoke too soon. :-(, posted by Deneb on November 18, 2006, at 15:52:43
It is much easier said then done, but if you can try to arrange your day so that you are not at home just sitting around, it will absolutely help.
If the problem is studying and eating, then go work somewhere else, the school library maybe.
this may be terrible advice, I hope it isn't, but I don't have issues with bulimia so Im not sure how it goes exactly. If you do choose to binge on all that crappy food, then dont eat dinner. Balance out your calories that way. I am not trying to say skip meals but maybe learning how to balance out calories which includes junk food might help. Take a look at weight watchers, I believe they have a program that does this. I know someone who swears by it, she has a junk food problem also and she lost weight, kept it off and still eats cookies.
good luck
Posted by Racer on November 19, 2006, at 14:24:44
In reply to Re: Spoke too soon. :-(, posted by adrift on November 19, 2006, at 13:25:17
> It is much easier said then done, but if you can try to arrange your day so that you are not at home just sitting around, it will absolutely help.
>That's great advice.
>
> this may be terrible advice, I hope it isn't, but I don't have issues with bulimia so Im not sure how it goes exactly. If you do choose to binge on all that crappy food, then dont eat dinner. Balance out your calories that way.And I'm sorry to say that this isn't great advice. You suggested yourself that it might not be, so I hope you'll accept this as constructive criticism, because I think you meant it for the best.
Much better advice would be to eat solid, balanced meals and snacks -- three meals, and three snacks per day -- so that you don't get so hungry that you binge. That's the advice given by dietitians, and that's the advice given in eating disorder programs. It's good advice. Any time you try to restrict to lose weight, you set yourself up for a binge. A lot of eating disorder specialists say that, eventually, all anorexics begin to binge (and generally purge) because no one can restrict consistently without beginning that cycle.
Thanks for the great advice above.
Posted by Deneb on November 19, 2006, at 16:22:45
In reply to Spoke too soon. :-(, posted by Deneb on November 18, 2006, at 15:52:43
I found this:
http://www.pale-reflections.com/bulimia.asp?page=5
Associated dangers
Important notice
Please seek qualified medical advice before following any guidelines you find here.Any eating disorder carries with it lots of obvious, and sometimes less obvious, dangers. Bulimics almost inevitably encounter health problems at some point. Many of these problems are minor, but others can be extremely serious and may even lead to death. Let's take a look at some potential dangers of bulimia...
Tooth decay
Repeated vomiting can quickly cause cavities and tooth decay. This is because the stomach acid erodes the enamel on teeth. Often, the first person to raise their suspicions about the sufferer's bulimia is their dentist. If you are bulimic, it is recommended that you do NOT brush your teeth straight after vomiting. Rather, you should drink water instead, as this will be gentler on your teeth and help replenish lost fluids.Dehydration
The healthy functioning of cells and tissues is dependent upon a certain level of water content in the body. Also, salt and other minerals need to be kept within a narrow range. In a person who has become dehydrated, it's possible they are suffering from a depletion in salt as well as water. You should drink a minimum of 64 fl. oz. (or 1.5 litres) a day, and even more during hot temperatures. Long-term dehydration can ultimately lead to kidney failure. Amongst bulimics, dehydration usually occurs because the stomach is being emptied of its gastric fluids.Inflammation & rupture of the esophagus
Stomach acid irritates the esophagus, which can cause inflammation and raw areas, sometimes making swallowing painful. Of greater concern is a rupture of the esophagus, because this can be fatal in some cases. A Mallory-Weiss tear is the technical term for a the rupture of tearing of the mucous membrane of the esophagus at its junction with the stomach. It is caused by repeated vomiting (although it is possible for it to occur after just one purging episode) and the person will have bright red blood in their vomit. Although a tear often heals itself after a few days, this is NOT ALWAYS THE CASE AND YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR IF YOU ARE VOMITING BLOOD.†Irregular or abnormally slow heart rate
Purging can lead to potassium depletion, which in turn can cause problems with the heart. Equally, starving oneself can also lead to an irregular or slow heart rate, which can mean that the heart muscle is undergoing changes. This is likely to lead to low blood pressure and, the lower blood pressure and heart rate goes, the greater the risk of heart failure.Heart failure
The heart muscle is extremely sensitive and can become thin and flabby from nutrional deficiency. A lack of calories and protein can have a negative effect on the heart, and body chemicals may become so imbalanced that heart failure occurs.¹Stomach ulceration
A peptic ulcer refers to an area of the stomach or duodenal lining (the tube that leads away from the stomach) which becomes eroded by stomach acid. These are known as stomach and duodenal ulcers, collectively known as peptic ulcers. The symptoms can vary, with some people not noticing anything out of the ordinary but others may vomit blood and experience abdomen or chest pains. The pain is usually increased when the individual eats or drinks. Peptic ulcers can be serious and need immediate attention if you are vomiting blood or passing digested blood in your stools.²------------------------------------------------------------------
STARTING RIGHT NOW, NO MORE PURGING!!!It's not worth it. One immediate consequence is enamel erosion. I'm not going to damage my teeth any further! From now on, no more purging, no matter what! If it means getting fat for a while, so be it! I'm going to beat this! Even if I binge, I'm not going to purge.
Deneb*
Posted by adrift on November 19, 2006, at 16:33:57
In reply to Re: Spoke too soon. :-( » adrift, posted by Racer on November 19, 2006, at 14:24:44
> > It is much easier said then done, but if you can try to arrange your day so that you are not at home just sitting around, it will absolutely help.
> >
>
> That's great advice.Thanks
>
> >
> > this may be terrible advice, I hope it isn't, but I don't have issues with bulimia so Im not sure how it goes exactly. If you do choose to binge on all that crappy food, then dont eat dinner. Balance out your calories that way.
>
> And I'm sorry to say that this isn't great advice. You suggested yourself that it might not be, so I hope you'll accept this as constructive criticism, because I think you meant it for the best.
Just to clarify, if this were a post about anorexia, I would never have said that! My food issue is around restricting so that's what I can relate to. When I have dinner plans where I know I have to eat a lot of food, I won't eat that day or maybe just some fruit. But in the end all the food that I eat at the dinner probably makes up for my daily caloric intake. But I don't see that as dangerous advice for someone stuggling with bulimia. Bulimia is about eating and vomiting. So where my suggestion is coming from is the idea that, if she were to binge consuming lots of calories and not purge, and then presumably not necessarily being hungry for the next meal there is not a caloric need for those calories. I was just suggesting it in the sense that, if it will help you to not purge, then don't add any more calories until you need them again. I don't eat on a fixed meal schedule so when I say "skip dinner", I don't mean starve yourself. we all eat differently and on different schedules and my dinner might be someone else's evening snack and vice versa.
>
> Much better advice would be to eat solid, balanced meals and snacks -- three meals, and three snacks per day -- so that you don't get so hungry that you binge. That's the advice given by dietitians, and that's the advice given in eating disorder programs. It's good advice.
It is good advice, my nutritionist tried to hammer that into my head, but unfortunately it doesn't work for me. It makes me obsessed with food to eat that way. there are probably others who can't do that way of eating as well, I was just offering another alternative in which I by no means meant to imply starve yourself, in case that is what came across.>Any time you try to restrict to lose weight, you set yourself up for a binge. A lot of eating disorder specialists say that, eventually, all anorexics begin to binge (and generally purge) because no one can restrict consistently without beginning that cycle.
>
> Thanks for the great advice above.That is true, although one person's binge is very differenet from another persons binge. I think many people who are restricting end up binging, but the binge may be on a "normal" portion of food, rather then a "binge" amount of food.
when I suggested I was giving terrible advice it was because I wasn't sure what she was describing as a binge. If there is not adequate food intake in the day then skipping a meal or a previously planned portion of food would not be wise. There are so many forms of eating disorders and I do know that often for people with bulimia they struggle with overing, which is what it sounded like was going on. Sometimes people feel pressure to eat at set times, even if they aren't hungry, that is also not necessarily healthy. We should eat when we are hungry and stop when we are full. Well, actually before we feel both of those sensations. My point, it is very very dangerous to purge!!! and finding alternative ways to keep yourself from doing that without starving oneself seems ok? Anyway, I needed to explain myself.
And of course I took it as you meant it.
:-)
Posted by ElaineM on November 20, 2006, at 18:16:33
In reply to Re: Spoke too soon. :-( » Racer, posted by adrift on November 19, 2006, at 16:33:57
I think you both gave some excellent advice. I'll toss my own piddly 2cents into the pile. Ideally, I think it's true that we should all be aiming towards one day being able to eat what is needed when we're hungry. The cr@ppy thing is that that's usually the very last thing to happen in someone trying to recover from disordered eating.
From only the programs I've done myself, (though it tends to be standard) the treatment and advice for anorexics, bulimics, and obese patients was the exact same - because there's only one way to eat normally. We were told that people who are actively symptomatic as restricters, bingers and purgers must adhere to pre-planned choice amounts (certain portions of different kinds of food are considered interchangeable, and you must have a certain variety of choice categories in a day) and strictly scheduled times (ie, meals and snacks). I found this maddening every single time I started -- Why am I "gorging" myself when I'm not really hungry?!. But the philosophy is that once a person has an active ED they've, not only mentally, but physically have lost the ability to recognize, obey and respect hunger and satiety cues. It's like they must be forcefully drilled into our heads again. Racer, did you find your dietician helpful with this? Eating "normal" snacks and meals often, is the best, if not the only, way to stop bingeing.
When you regimentize meals and take away the option of bartering/rationalizing... you take the control of food intake away from yourself and any ED influenced thoughts. Being anorexic, I used to get uncomfortably full on very little. I used to eat until I was nearly sick in all my programs (to be fair I was also on weight-gain). But I had to expand my stomach, retrain my head to realize that (eventually) they were feeding me normal amounts for an adult female my age and height (which they adjusted for). Unfortunately, that's what alot of AN (and B) are afraid of -- they don't *want* to get accustomed to eating normal amounts. I remember being terrified when being discharged that I had grown used to eating "so much" food. I used to blame the strict eating plans for making me obsessed with food, but the therapist said, "You were already obsessed with food. That's why you came to us". Of course it was true. Once I accepted that this type of eating was what I had to do, no choice whatsoever, it (eventually) took the pre-worrying out of it. Obviously the post-eating worry was still raging, but again, that may be with me forever -- it's learning to cope with that that's the crux of recovery. That's the long-term stuff. They used to tell us that it could take a good year before our own natural cues would be dependable (and that's only if you stay symptom-free). Part of maintenance is learning and planning (ironically enough) how to be spontaneous and flexible with the meal plan -- though that usually comes much later.
Also, in terms of avoiding binges, it's best to not have off-limit foods. Although, that would be where the huge amount of coping strategies comes in. Very early in her recover on her own, one woman's mother would have the "high energy" foods physically locked in a cupboard and give her one portion whenever the mealplan, that they had taped to the fridge, called for. After a few weeks, they worked on leaving the cupboard unlocked for certain lengths of time (gradually increasing that). Eventually, there was no lock at all -- some slips now and then, but that was expected, and something to work on too during meetings.
Adrift, your idea of leaving the house is exactly what many of the women did. Though if your urges are strong Deneb (especially in the beginning) you could have someone "in on your struggle" stay with you. It's best to get as many people helping with your pro-recovery side as possible.
Deneb, I just wanted to say that you did an amazing job those days that you binged but didn't purge. THe more you can make purging not an option, the more your anti-bingeing side will strengthen. Seperating the urge and the behaviour is one of the first things people trying to recover start working on -- so it's really great that you've started to do that on your own. To gain some confidence, try and see if you can equal or go longer purge-free. Keep trying. Your health is worth the hard struggle.
((((Deneb)))) [who's okay with hugs right]
*safe hugs* for (((Adrift))) [if you're okay with that.]
[By the way, you were having a hard time lately. How's it going these days?]encouraging tip of the head for Racer :-)
blove EL
Posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 10:33:04
In reply to Re: Spoke too soon. :-(, posted by ElaineM on November 20, 2006, at 18:16:33
>>>> it's best to not have off-limit foods.
Oops, I think that may have sounded wrong. I meant, it's best to not categorize any food as off-limits.
Sorry.
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 19:02:30
In reply to clarification, posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 10:33:04
I hate myself. I just promised to never purge again and I did, twice today. I hate myself. I've eaten 3000 kcal so far today.
I worry about my teeth, my stomach, my esophagus, my electrolytes and heart. I'm afraid I'm going to drop dead. I keep promising myself I will stop, but even with the threat of possible death I still purge.
Teri Schiavo was bulimic and she suffered permanent brain damage from a heart attack that resulted from her bulimia. I don't think I'm throwing up often enough for that to happen to me, but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I purged 6 times last week.
I don't want to die. When people die I think they are gone forever. Ame Sans Vie just died. He was around my age. I could die too. I hate death. I wish people never have to experience the death of anything or anyone they love or like.
Tell me there's hope for me. :-( This whole purging thing has gotten me down. Are there any success stories?
I'm so scared. :-( Is 6 times a week enough to risk electrolyte imbalances?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 19:50:58
In reply to Tell me there's hope, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 19:02:30
I'm getting pretty scared right now. I'm afraid I can't stop purging. The thought of telling my Mom about this is crossing my mind. I don't want her to know, but I'm also afraid I'm getting worse. I wish someone could keep an eye on me for several weeks to stop me from binging and purging. I know my Mom can't be there for me 24/7 and I don't want to place a burden on her.
If I were super rich I would seriously consider staying at an ED treatment place for several weeks, just to get out of my bad habit. I want to nip this at the bud. I'm so out of control. :-( I would want to help others too if I had the money.
I'm thinking of telling my Mom if I purge again. Do you think this is a good idea?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:10:36
In reply to Re: Tell me there's hope, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 19:50:58
OK, this might be a stupid question, but does anyone here think there is a possibility that getting attention on the Eating Board is somehow reinforcing my bulimia?
I don't think it is, but I can't be 100% sure. I do crazy things for attention.
Deneb*
Posted by adrift on November 21, 2006, at 20:12:27
In reply to Re: Spoke too soon. :-(, posted by ElaineM on November 20, 2006, at 18:16:33
>
> *safe hugs* for (((Adrift))) [if you're okay with that.]
> [By the way, you were having a hard time lately. How's it going these days?]
>Good advice, Thanks for the hug. Im hanging in there. Thanks for asking. How are you?
Posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 20:30:01
In reply to Re: Tell me there's hope, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 19:50:58
I've seen purgers have success at stopping (as far as I know of them now). The earlier you treat a disorder the better - better chance at recovery.
Deneb, how is your eating? If you were in the programs I was in (and not on weight gain), they would tell you to be eating more than 1200 calories (thought I can't for the life of me remember how they altered for height),spread out over a day - EVERY single day. Including a portion of "high energy" items. Anything less would be considered a dieting level, and setting the stage for symptoms.You CAN get better. It happens. But you have to want it. Really really want it. Be willing to risk whatever recovery means (for ex, not weighing your dream weight, eating regularly, committing to coping strategies, enlisting more help...)
I seriously think you should either add on a therapist to your pdoc sessions, or increase the number and frequency you have with her now. I would do that first and/or mention it to your pdoc first before telling your mom. She will be able to help you plan what to say to your mom, and how to deal with your family's reaction if it isn't what you'd expected. THough, you know your mom better than me. If you know she'd only be supportive then maybe it's best for you to tell her now.
Purging is so terribly dangerous. It's so instantly destructive to your body. I don't know where you live, but perhaps your pdoc would know of places or programs (they come in different levels too, not only residential) that offer sliding scales. Or maybe your family has good insurance. Ask her to see if she can find out more about local resources for you.
I'm proud of you for wanting to attack this head on. Going into recovery on my own for the first time was the f*cking hardest thing I'd ever had to do in my life up until then. And I was scared sh*tless. But I was truely terrified by what I was doing to my body, and the results I was seeing, and I didn't want to die yet. IF you can't get your purging under control you should probably tell your dentist (though they can usually tell on their own). My teeth got absolutely destroyed by malnutrition - which also happens when you don't allow nutrients to be absorbed (in addition to acid damage from throwing up). It's better to risk a little humility now then have to deal with the root canals later. Bleck. (Root canals & extractions = *shudders*)
((((D))))
blove, EL
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:30:50
In reply to My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:10:36
On second thought, "No."
My bulimia is not affected by the eating board. When I purge I don't think, "Now I'll have something to write about on the eating board." I don't think of Babble at all when I binge and purge.
Deneb*
Posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 20:45:03
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:30:50
>>>>>I don't think it is, but I can't be 100% sure. I do crazy things for attention.
I'm confused now.
!
?
What do you think? What does your pdoc think?>>>>does anyone here think there is a possibility that getting attention on the Eating Board is somehow reinforcing my bulimia?
Plus, I don't know how to theorize and hypothesize an answer to that question while ensuring I'm "civil". I wasn't too good at walking that line before apparently, even when I was attempting to, so I'm uneasy responding to a judgement question like that.
D, what's going on?
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 21:10:22
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 20:45:03
I'll explain in a Babblemail.
Posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 21:21:57
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 21, 2006, at 20:45:03
I'm confusing correlation with causation.
I'm grasping at straws to try to explain my ED. Just because I purge more when I come here does not mean that coming here causes my purging.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on November 22, 2006, at 1:21:06
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 21:21:57
> Just because I purge more when I come here does not mean that coming here causes my purging.
>
>Answer? Yes, I do think that getting attention on this board is bad for you. And if you purge more when you come here, then yes -- this board is increasing your problem.
I agree with Elaine: get a therapist, or see your pdoc more often. I'd add that DBT would be a good model for you, too, as it teaches skills for coping with stress.
Although I realize that this is skirting the line of the guidelines, you asked what people thought. I think, from watching your behavior here and at another board, that you have a significant problem which you're not dealing with, and that instead, you focus attention on problems that may or may not exist. Maybe if you put some of that energy into facing your underlying problem, the other things would go away.
Also, Deneb, the other thing I've observed about you is that you really seem to be hungry for negative attention -- it's not enough to have attention for being funny or smart, you need to get sympathy of a sort. It's like the breast cancer scare, or now bulimia -- it seems as though you enjoy the sick role, the role of a child, or a supplicant. You don't seem to want to interact as equals with others, if that makes sense?
You've babblemailed me asking if I was ignoring you. Yes, and largely because of a lot of what you've written here on this board. I don't think that getting attention on this board is good for you -- I think you'll continue to engage in behaviors harmful to yourself in order to continue getting attention here.
If you want my attention, Deneb, you can have it -- but only if you approach me as someone who is, like me, reaching for health. As long as it seems to me that you're looking for attention by being "sick," I've got other places to devote my attention.
Peace
Posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 14:58:10
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Racer on November 22, 2006, at 1:21:06
Thanks for letting me know Racer. I do appreciate it. I really do want to stop my bulimia and all contributing factors must be considered.
Dr. Bob, please don't get Racer into trouble, I asked my question and I expected a reply.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 18:22:16
In reply to Thanks for letting me know » Racer, posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 14:58:10
I don't agree with you Racer. I don't think I'm getting worse to get sympathy. I don't think it has anything to do with Babble. I started purging before Babble. Before.
I suspected that is why you were ignoring me so that is why I posted my question.
How come you don't suspect other people of developing eating disorders just to get sympathy? What is it about me? Do you really think it's as simple of wanting attention?
I have real problems, they're not pretend. I really do try to stop purging. I'm suffering for real.
Deneb*
Posted by ElaineM on November 22, 2006, at 21:12:32
In reply to Actually, scratch that..., posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 18:22:16
>>>>>>I don't think I'm getting worse to get sympathy. I don't think it has anything to do with Babble. I started purging before Babble. Before.
I guess you answered your own question. THough I don't think she ever said that Babble caused your purging.
Honestly, I'm confused. If *I* spefically asked others to volunteer their own personal opinion, then I'd expect others to offer me what I asked for. If I posed a *question of personal judgment* then I'd expect others to offer me what I requested. Considering that, was it just the wording or something that was unappealing then. If some of it was hard to hear, I'm sorry. ((((Deneb)))) You have every right in the world to disagree or refute anything said. I think that if a personal opinion was inserted into a thread without being asked for, that that would be slightly different then what happened here. Maybe I'm missing something - I'm not the greatest with Babble language.
I was just thinking, I don't think that "ignoring" has to be taken as a form of punishment or condemnation. It can also be a form of self-protecting. I think everyone has the right to NOT respond to whatever thread or poster they need to. Personally, when I babblemail someone to ask them for a response, then I would be wanting their attention -- eating disorder aside. She answered when you asked. I don't know.
>>>>I have real problems, they're not pretend. I'm suffering for real.
I didn't read anything I thought implied that you DON'T have real problems, or that you DON'T suffer. I didn't read anything that implied that you DIDN'T have an ED.
I don't know how kosher it is to refer to off board things but, What did you think of the questions that I asked you in reply to the babblemail you sent me? I think it's relevant. I have a few others if you wanted. Though, maybe I haven't given you enough time to respond - it was only last night afterall.
>>>>>I really do try to stop purging.
Changing subjects :) In terms of that, What about my post above D? Do you think any of those would be things you could do to try to stop purging? Wanna talk about the things you are trying already? Maybe some feedback about methods that are failing will help you improve upon them. Are you up for it? I'll be crumpled over in my chair here, all by my lonesome, all day tomorrow if you want to post about stuff like that.
blove, EL
ps. I know it's a no-hug zone, but I'm thinking of you Racer. Hope you're alright too.
Posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 22:46:46
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that..., posted by ElaineM on November 22, 2006, at 21:12:32
> Honestly, I'm confused. If *I* spefically asked others to volunteer their own personal opinion, then I'd expect others to offer me what I asked for.
I'm sorry. I did expect people to answer me honestly. At first I was OK with it, but then after letting things sink in some more it started to hurt. That's my problem to deal with though. I don't know what I want. I'm so confused I don't know up from down.
> I was just thinking, I don't think that "ignoring" has to be taken as a form of punishment or condemnation. It can also be a form of self-protecting. I think everyone has the right to NOT respond to whatever thread or poster they need to.
I agree. It's difficult to be ignored though, no matter what the reason. I tend to think the absolute worse about myself when it happens. I mean, wouldn't you if you asked the person if it was because you did something bad and you didn't get a response?
> Personally, when I babblemail someone to ask them for a response, then I would be wanting their attention -- eating disorder aside. She answered when you asked. I don't know.
Huh? Not sure what you mean here.
> I don't know how kosher it is to refer to off board things but, What did you think of the questions that I asked you in reply to the babblemail you sent me? I think it's relevant. I have a few others if you wanted. Though, maybe I haven't given you enough time to respond - it was only last night afterall.
You asked me if I'm trying to NOT recover and my answer is mostly no. For the most part I am trying to recover, but you know how complicated these things can get...resistance and all...I still want to be thin sort of thing and yet I just ate 500 kcal worth of ice cream, now what do I do sort of thing...
> >>>>>I really do try to stop purging.
>
> Changing subjects :) In terms of that, What about my post above D? Do you think any of those would be things you could do to try to stop purging? Wanna talk about the things you are trying already? Maybe some feedback about methods that are failing will help you improve upon them. Are you up for it? I'll be crumpled over in my chair here, all by my lonesome, all day tomorrow if you want to post about stuff like that.Right now my pdoc wants me to stop skipping lunch. I should eat 3 healthy meals and snacks. I shouldn't worry about the calories in fruit. I should avoid getting too hungry.
I'm more worried about my purging than binging right now. My binging is not that severe. I've never eaten a whole gallon of ice cream before. Sometimes I purge just to get rid of the being full feeling. I suppose I should learn to deal with being full.
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 23, 2006, at 0:53:42
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that..., posted by ElaineM on November 22, 2006, at 21:12:32
Deneb,
I think *alot* of the frustration that people show here, is because advice is given and then seemingly ignored.. I know I have stopped posting to you as I only have so much to give these days, and being, well, bascially ignored when I was offering advice to you was pretty hurtful.
Alot of people have said you need more than just your apointments with your Pdoc.. I doubt very much your Pdoc has gne and gne the years of study required to be a clinical psychologist, and that is what you need.. a properly trained therapist. You have ALOT of problems, and sometimes some seem to "occur" out of the blue in order for your to avoid other issues - such as your college work.
I think its a responsibility thing. Until you sit up and take responsibility, and say "I willg o and get the help I need" then some people will be feeling worn down, and frustrated with you.
Racer, and I, have mentioned DBT on many occasions.. I really do believe this is something that would benefit you hugely. Your Pdoc diagnosed BPD, but doesn't seem to be offering you any of the spcyhological therapies that have a HUGE evenidence base as helping with BPD. Meds can only help control certain symptoms.. Meds kept me alive long enough to receive decent behavoural therapy and that was all.
Please, ask your Pdoc about a referral to a therapist and a if possible, a DBT one. Start receiving the help you need in order to start your recovery..
Nikki
Posted by ElaineM on November 23, 2006, at 9:08:23
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that... » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on November 22, 2006, at 22:46:46
>>>>>>It's difficult to be ignored though, no matter what the reason. I tend to think the absolute worse about myself when it happens. I mean, wouldn't you if you asked the person if it was because you did something bad and you didn't get a response?
True, it is difficult. I've written and been ignored before since coming to the board. The best you can do is figure that, for whatever reason (sensitive topic, not enough time, or even the person's personal feelings about me...the list can go on and on) it's not in that person's best interest to answer me. I wouldn't want anyone to jeopardize their own personal safety (emotional and whatnot) to satisfy my need for an answer. When I get non-responses, it hurts, but I just ask someone else here. I don't think I'd ask someone the reason they "ignored" me if I wasn't prepared for the most honest of answers. I can't fault someone for not liking me, or finding me exasperating, or hating my situation, or whatever else could be wrong with me..... It hurts, but that's their perogative.
D, you have a fair amount of people responding to you here - it's not the most active board afterall. I guess I have similar feelings to Nikki that way.
Okay I'm kinda stuck how to say this .... I *feel* hurt when it seems that only Racer's answers and opinions matter. Lots of people read this board and don't write at all too. I guess I just wondered what makes her so important to you.>>>>> Personally, when I babblemail someone to ask them for a response, then I would be wanting their attention -- eating disorder aside. She answered when you asked. I don't know.
>>Huh? Not sure what you mean here.
Yes, I'm a wording wizard ;-) No, I just meant that since you were asking about only wanting attention, I just wanted to point out, that we ask for alot of attention all the time. In little ways that we don't even pick up on. That it's not a morally "bad" thing. Even writing that original post with the question in it - you said that you wrote it to get *her* to respond. Everything we all write on here is to get attention, I guess I was wondering if it's just better to let things lie, and respond to whomever *does* answer you. Like, is it better to know an answer that's gonna upset you? Or does it hurt less to tolerate being "ignored"? [I meant that rhetorically ;)]
>>>>You asked me if I'm trying to NOT recover and my answer is mostly no.
Well, kinda. I threw out some variations of the question you asked. Saying that the most important thing is for you to search for the honest answer to each one (as best you can) for YOU. And only you. Cause when it comes down to it, the damage from purging is gonna be bore solely by you. Your body and life will be affected by what the answers to questions like that are - so in the end, it's really only important what YOU think about your ED.
>>>>For the most part I am trying to recover, but you know how complicated these things can get...resistance and all...
Ambivalence is normal. But wanting to recover (wanting it like an abstract thing) is different than actively mobilizing to do the things that need to be done to achieve that (or make a d@mn strong attempt). You can't just *want*, you have to *do*. Not just you, anyone and everyone trying to get better from something so terribly destructive.
>>>>>Right now my pdoc wants me to stop skipping lunch.
That's excellent advice. When you're blood sugar drops, then it'll make you crave like mad.
>>>>>I should eat 3 healthy meals and snacks.
Why don't you ask for her help creating an appropriate mealplan. You could schedule a whole session to mapping one out. If she doens't feel she has enough expertise then she could refer you to a dietician.
When you skip meals (not only do cravings increase) your body tends to go into a mode where it'll hold onto whatever calories it *is* given, cause it won't be reliably sure when the next meal is gonna come.>>>>>>I shouldn't worry about the calories in fruit.
Yes, those kind of carbs are good. You need them to be healthy. Synthesized sugars aren't the same. Plus, the nutritional benefits (vitamins which you must replace anyways) far out-weigh any carbs. It's really not that much in fruit anyways - not really.
>>>>>I should avoid getting too hungry.
>>>>>I'm more worried about my purging than binging right now.Yep, another good bit of advice. It's almost guaranteed that when you starve you're setting yourself up bigtime for a binge. THe two actions tend to cycle. That's why it VERY important for you to follow your pdocs advice about eating enough, regularily.
>>>>>My binging is not that severe. I've never eaten a whole gallon of ice cream before.
Sounds like you're describing "Subjective Binges". That's not a judgment on my part, that's an actual term used in treatment to describe eating not a "typical true binge amount", but eating without the feeling of control... eating when you know you're not hungry...eating for other emotional reasons....
One piece of advice I would offer is to ditch the food scale. I can look it down if you want. But its much healthier to learn to estimate portion sizes by recognizable equivalents. Jeez, I can't even recall it right now, but it sounds like this: a portion of **** equals the size of a dominoe, a portion of **** equals the palm of your hand, ....equals a deck of cards....and whatnot.>>>>>Sometimes I purge just to get rid of the being full feeling. I suppose I should learn to deal with being full.
This is why you MUST find someone with expertise to help you. May I ask you a personal question? Are you against obtaining a therapist, or ED therapist? And if so, why? I just think that if your problem is half as bad as you yourself have described then you NEED someone else.
Please ask about more help. THere's so much more behind eating disorders than just eating or not eating, or not retaining food. BUt it's too hard to pull apart yourself. You don't need to do residential, but you need someone.
If there really is even one tiny part of you that wants, truely WANTS, to get better (and learn what's going on inside) then do this one initial thing, and find someone who can help. You can do this for yourself, I believe in you. You can call those numbers. If not, why not. And then we can help you with that too. ((((D))))
blove, EL
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 23, 2006, at 10:24:02
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that... » ElaineM, posted by NikkiT2 on November 23, 2006, at 0:53:42
Posted by poet on November 23, 2006, at 12:10:07
In reply to My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:10:36
Hi Deneb,
This is what bothers me about your posts: you waiver between I am helpless and out of control and it's a miracle I'm cured. It causes me to waiver between *do I think Deneb is trying for attention* and *does Deneb really need help.*
Many of us have suggested you talk to your pdoc about helping you find a therapist. That seems to get ignored with each new post. You posted that you wished you could afford residential treatment. I don't understand how you believe that residential treatment might be what you need when you haven't explored any out patient treatment? You said you wish you could tell your mother. I wish you could tell your pdoc and a therapist what you tell us.
Deneb, I'll be blunt: if it's attention you are seeking, posting that you have an ED or cancer or whatever is not going to help the underlying issues behind needing that attention. I think that is what you need to pay attention to, not get attention for. In other words, explore this need for attention with someone who can offer professional expertise.
I can't really answer your question about bulimia and the eating board, so I'll ask a question of you: what did you learn from your experience posting on that cancer site?
Poet
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 20:12:11
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by poet on November 23, 2006, at 12:10:07
I promised I would if I purged again. I did. I told.
She told me not to eat so much. She told me I'm fat like my Dad and that I should do more exercise. She told me to eat less for dinner. She's telling me to get off the computer right now so I can clean the house and get some exercise.
I asked her not to buy my trigger foods, like chips and cookies. She told me not to eat so much of them.
:-(
I'm not sure what to think.
Deneb*
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