Posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2005, at 17:47:05
In reply to Re: attraction rather than promotion » alexandra_k, posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2005, at 12:17:31
>"Who is an Addict".
>"We are people in the grip of a continuing and progressive illness whose ends are always the same: jails, institutions and death."> Where there is a contradiction between the literal description of a step, and the belief system of the stepper, the literal wording must fail.
the trouble comes with... people being vulnerable. at an all time low, typically.you can keep on adding epicycles indefinately...
but at some point...
an alternative is thought up.
and you can keep on adding epicycles indefinately in order to cling to a problematic theory...
or you can move to an alternative.
i'm weary of epicycles.
they say these things Larry.
they are right there in the literature.
and people read that literature when they are vulnerable.
i'm weary of epicycles.
time for me to move on...> So, you're a sack of chemicals,
not just a sack of chemicals. those chemicals are combined in a variety of intricate ways to make up cells. and cells are amazingly complex with a very high degree of structural organisation. but the structural organisation doesn't stop there. cells are also combined together in a highly structured way to make something that performs a fairly remarkable task; as part of an eye or kidney, or whatever. and the brain... the structure of the brain... i do believe it is the most complicated thing in the universe Larry (really - though my officemate tells me that the internet is getting pretty close though i disagree because i don't think the internet is so very structured as the brain but its something to argue i guess).
>performing stunts (like typing words on the Internet). And that stunt production may discontinue at some point, and you'll be buried. Something like that?
my body will be. what about my consciousness? the point that when i am awake there is something that it is like to be me... whereas when i am in a dreamless sleep there is nothing that it is like to be me... that consciousness seems to be realised on (implemented on) my brain. maybe... when my brain disintegrates / ceases to function then that is it and its all over rover (which is a comforting thought to me i have to say). but maybe not... if what is important is the FUNCTIONAL ORGANISATION of my brain... well then... it would be possible in principle to capture that functional organisation on... oh... a computer program for example... materialsim doesn't rule out my conscious expereince continuing after death. at least... any version of materialism that is possibly true doesn't rule out the possibility of my conscious experience continuing after death...
> I was wondering how you would manage spiritual growth. It kind of, but not necessarily, presupposes a spirit. It all gets down to definitions, I guess.
yeah it does. what do you mean by 'spiritual growth'? is that what other people call 'personal development'? what Maslow called 'self-actualisation'? i don't see the need for a spirit... i don't see the need for reference to a spirit...
religion doesn't buy me anything that i can't get from alternative sources...
for me...
i see it as moral development i suppose.
'self actualisation' = to be a truely moral person = to be a spiritual person. of course... it is neverending... nobody is perfect... but it is something positive to work towards.i prefer my way of saying it because... i don't think it alienates either those who are believers or those who are not. whereas talk of 'god' and 'spirit' etc etc tend to alienate athiests...
with respect to the 'soul' or 'spirit' or 'mind' even (in the sense of a non-physical substance that is the seat of our free will) i suppose what i did... was i traded it in for a scientific model.see for example: "Freedom Evolves"
he introduces the project there.
the idea is that yes, science seems to be silent on what interests us the most...
and thus... lets take a look at what science has to say and try and see whether we can say something about what interests us the most...
and it seems that we can say rather a lot...
it is a fairly new field...
philosophers (and some scientists) are getting into it :-)
i love it :-)the idea is...
lets extend science
instead of ignoring it and continuing on with the epicycles...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:575263
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20051106/msgs/580672.html