Posted by Tamar on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:13
In reply to Re: Sex and other stuff I know nothin about (boring) » Tamar, posted by alexandra_k on July 31, 2005, at 19:09:46
> But do you ever wonder...
> About how for guys the aim is for the guy to have the big o.
> It is perceived as a big problem if a guy is having trouble with that.
> If a girl is having trouble with that thats just like 'oh well, you and however many % of other women out there...'I think that’s true. And I think the problem is that when people talk about sex they mean the thing that happens when a man puts his penis inside a woman and thrusts till he comes, as if the woman were a mere receptacle. (I could get into theological history at this point, but I’m too tired…)
> And the guys aim is taken to be the crucial one. The important one. The 'proper function'. It takes precedence over the girls...
OK, I do think there’s a theological/historical point to be made. In the history of western culture, sex was perceived as sinful. It was permissible only for procreation. Therefore the man had to ejaculate; without ejaculation, procreation wasn’t possible and sex without the possibility of procreation was considered unnatural. But the sexual pleasure involved was the means by which Original Sin was transmitted. A woman’s pleasure was unnecessary for procreation and therefore of no use in sexual activity. And although those ideas are no longer current in western culture, I think they have informed the way in which our attitudes to sexual behaviour have developed.
> And maybe the different needs
> (that can conflict)
> Create an inbalance right there...
>
> I also think about...
> How many women talk about feeling dirty. used. Yeah, I've heard guys talk about that a bit on this board (interesting...) but in general that seems to be a girl thing. why is that? innate tendancies, or social???I think it’s a cultural thing. In gay and lesbian relationships people can feel dirty and used. I think it’s more likely that people will feel dirty during/after sex if they feel they are dirty or unnatural to begin with (of course I am not saying that homosexuality is unnatural, but that sometimes people are brought up believing that it is unnatural).
I know my point of view is a wee bit feminist, but I do think that women’s bodies are not really considered normal. An example is the difficulty diagnosing heart attack in female patients. The research was done on male patients and the symptoms that doctors looked for were those symptoms most people can identify: pain in chest and left arm etc. But in women the symptoms are often different. Many women present with symptoms akin to indigestion and are not considered to be having heart attacks. As a result more women than men are likely to die of heart attacks and men tend to get quicker treatment and therefore recover better than women. It’s changing now, happily, but that situation was true for a long time. Men’s bodies were normalised and people who didn’t have the normal symptoms missed out, even if their symptoms were normal for women. I think in general male is ‘normal’ and female is not.
> I think... That our bodies are different. Innate difference. As I heard somewhere... Girls are more like slow cookers and guys are more like gas. And so what that means... Is that in order for BOTH to have a good time the guy actually has to hold off on his urges a little. But many don't... Because the whole point is for the guy to have an o.
Again, I think it’s partly cultural. The thing about a guy holding off his urges a little makes sense if the couple are having sex according to Bill Clinton’s definition. But if instead we think of sex as something broader than mere penetration I don’t think that time is really a factor. If both partners aim to please each other in various ways before penetration begins (or without penetration at all), there’s not necessarily any need for the guy to hold off.
> And so because of these differences...
> Its too easy for a girl to end up feeling like her needs preferences etc have just been fairly much disregarded in order for the guy to do what the guy needs to do...Well, if he’s not a very imaginative lover, that would be true!
I think there’s a powerful myth that sex is all about penetration (which is embarrassingly heteronormative, but I’ll save my lesbian rant for another time). Like you say, the ‘proper function’. It seems unfortunate to me that people think of sex in that way. I hate the word ‘foreplay’ because it seems to suggest that it’s an hoop through which to jump before you get the real thing. In Italian the word for foreplay is preliminari (the preliminaries)!
Oops, I’ve gone off on a rant again. I’d better go to bed. By myself, sadly.
poster:Tamar
thread:534819
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/relate/20050724/msgs/536228.html