Posted by pedrito on May 13, 2005, at 22:44:34
In reply to Re: Dryden, Ellis, ACT » pedrito, posted by alexandra_k on May 13, 2005, at 21:44:15
> Ok. So you are having troubling thoughts... There are two things that you can try and do: (1) try and change them (2) accept them.
- agreed.
>
> So, but the sounds of it you have really really really tried to change them - but that doesn't seem to be going all that well for you.- correct.
> Sometimes medications can help with recurring thoughts. They can make it so they don't occur to you so often, or they can make it so that it is easier for you to not to feel as bothered by them.
- indeed.
> I have these two thoguhts occuring to me at many different points during the day:
> 'I hate myself'
> 'I wish I was dead'.
> They come BAMB! Even at times when I am enjoying myself during the day. They just keep on
occuring to me.- that must be rather crap. FWIW I "crash" when having fun too. It's almost like an anti-fun device installed in my head.
> These aren't even thoughts about external reality. They are thoughts about how I feel or what I think. But it can be hard for me to seperate out the fact that the thoughts do occur to me from whether they are true or not in the sense that I actually do hate myself, or I actually do wish I was dead.- I follow.
> But it is a jump...
>
> >The problem of course is getting to the stage where you don't believe your troubling thoughts!
>
> Indeed. But a thought is just a thought.
> It might be true or false...
> The only thing that is certain is that you are infact having the thought.- In my case, no. I suffer from derealization (I think) which (I'm sure you know, you appear very knowledegable) means I disappear off for most of the day into a distant, anxious World of cognition that bears no resemblance to what I actually think whatsoever.
I know the kind of thinking you are referring to since I also have those kind of disturbing thoughts that just "crop up". Derealization is different though, it's like a different World. A horrible different World, unfortunately.
>
> > And let's face it, repeatedly having very troubling, obtrusive thoughts..
>
> What I wonder is that you perceive them as 'troubling' and 'obtrusive' because you TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY in the sense that you believe what they tell you..- I see where you're coming from but when I'm having a really bad day of DR, nearly all of my thinking is totally unreal/not my own/foreign/distant. It's not obtrusive in nature, it wholly displaces your cognition. I can't have a rational thought if I try.
>
> >and constantly accepting yourself for having them is hardly a good quality of life.
>
> But if you can accept the fact that you are having them
> (What a strange thing to think, and it isn't even true!!!)
> Then you might not be so troubled by them anymore.
>
> > - Granted. A 20% quality of life is better than a 10% quality of life. But I'd guess ultimately most people require more, or at least the possibility of more out of life.
>
> Sure they do.
> But the point is:
> What is the problem here???\
> Is it the fact that you have certain thoguhts.
> Or is it the fact that you are finding certain thoguhts to be distressing?
> If you cannot change the fact that you have them then all that is left to be done is to try and change your response to them.
>
> > - Agreed. It's just crap to have to accept really unpleasant thoughts and feelings all day!
>
> I'm not saying that you have to accept feeling crap.
> Well... Sometimes people do.
> My point is that if you can accept the thoughts
> (just as thoughts - not as being true)
> Then you may be able to change your feeling like crap.
>
> Acceptance is change...
>
> If that sounds paradoxical the idea is that in accepting one thing you quite often can change another.- Think of DR as being in another World where normal thoughts can't reach. It's just not the same as having even frequent, intrusive, disturbing thoughts. For example, when I started on Reboxetine I could not stop picturing suicide for 2 weeks. The images just kept on appearing. However, I just batted them away, knowing it was not something I wanted or was going to do. It was a bloody horrible experience but a fundamentally different one to DR.
I wish I could explain this more clearly or even knew for certain that DR is what I am experiencing. Either way, it's good to talk with someone who has had similar experiences.
Pete
poster:pedrito
thread:492810
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/books/20050501/msgs/497564.html