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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunnydays on April 12, 2008, at 17:18:55
So this morning my T and I talked about the panicked e-mailing of the past couple weeks where I've been emailing him multiple times a day some days just because I'm anxious. And he said that he wants me to only e-mail him at most twice a week from now on. I immediately looked down and he said, "Don't go where you're going right now, try to keep your head up, that's it, listen to me, I'm telling you the truth, this is not a punishment, you're not in trouble, you didn't do anything wrong, it's just a change in quantity. I've been thinking for a while about this, it's not something I just came up with out of the blue, and I've been watching you and waiting until I thought you were ready. So in a way, it's a compliment because I think you're ready now, and I think the timing is right. I also think it will improve the quality of our sessions, because I've noticed that we talk about something really intense maybe every three weeks, and the other times are more just reassurance. If you can bring the feelings in here instead of siphoning them off during the week by emailing me, that probably would improve the quality."
And I actually feel mostly fine with it. It feels like a big weight has been lifted off me almost, because now I have a number, I know how much I can write, and at the moment I feel freed kind of from having to write anything at all. I don't have to prove to him that I miss him, etc. In the session I kept switching between being fine with it, and feeling really upset and abandoned - the adult/little girl split again.
We talked about it, and I said that I want to feel important to him. He said, "Of course you do. When I go to my therapist I want to be his best client, his most special client, the person he looks forward to seeing. That's some of the transference stuff. And it doesn't change anything about our relationship. We're just changing the quantity of the contact, not the quality. It might even improve the quality."
I said I had actually been thinking that when I move (soon) it might change my relationship with him, I might not feel such an intense need. And at one point I said that it wasn't fair because he could do or not do or say or not say whatever he wanted and there was nothing I could do about it. He said it sounded like I was mad and that I wanted more power, and what would I like if I had more power. And I said, "To not need to email you as much, actually." And he said, "Hmmm. (in the gentle way he has when he's surprised by something I said that I love) It sounds like we're sort of on the same page then, maybe just different paragraphs. And maybe we just haven't tested yet whether you actually need to email me so much or if it is coming from a feeling." I said, "What if I'm not ready?" And he said, "That comes from the little girl place, but if you're not ready then we'll be able to figure that out. But I think you are ready."
I keep getting scared that since he thinks I'm ready for this that he's trying to get me ready to leave. But I know that he said at the end, "This is not me pushing you out of here. Nothing else is changing. You will be ok. Let the adult part of you keep telling the little girl that I'm not going anywhere. I will be your therapist for as long as you want me to be, no matter where you are."
So I have an odd mix of calm, sad, scared, anxious, and loving/loved feelings after the session. It sure was a memorable one.
sunnydays
Posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 9:58:57
In reply to change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by sunnydays on April 12, 2008, at 17:18:55
> So this morning my T and I talked about the panicked e-mailing of the past couple weeks where I've been emailing him multiple times a day some days just because I'm anxious. And he said that he wants me to only e-mail him at most twice a week from now on. I immediately looked down and he said, "Don't go where you're going right now, try to keep your head up, that's it, listen to me, I'm telling you the truth, this is not a punishment, you're not in trouble, you didn't do anything wrong, it's just a change in quantity. I've been thinking for a while about this, it's not something I just came up with out of the blue, and I've been watching you and waiting until I thought you were ready. >
>
> I keep getting scared that since he thinks I'm ready for this that he's trying to get me ready to leave.****How would you draw this conclusion? You said yourself in the paragraph above that you email him multiple times a day. Don't you think that's a bit much? (If you really be honest with yourself and look deep inside?) I remember one post where you said (recently) that you emailed him 9 times one day! I also remember several times when you get upset/angry and say you aren't going to email him anymore... and that lasts about an hour. Really, for boundry and structure, he needs to put his foot down a bit and I think that it's good that he did. Don't get me wrong, I email my therapist also, but she's never put a number on it... I've also never abused it. I think you will find that if you don't run to email him at the slightest sign of anxiety or discomfort, you will find that you really can get through much more than you think you can. Besides, needing our therapists is one thing, but do you really want to be emailing him multiple times a day? 9 times a day? You don't think that's a bit much?
I hope this new arrangement works out for you.
Blue
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 12:32:21
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 9:58:57
> > I keep getting scared that since he thinks I'm ready for this that he's trying to get me ready to leave.
>
> ****How would you draw this conclusion?**** From the little girl part of me, not from the logical, rational adult part of me that is totally fine with his decision and actually is kind of glad he decided that. We all have thoughts that aren't always rational. My T understands where mine come from (a history of trauma and not feeling able to trust any of my perceptions or that what someone said was actually the truth), it's fine if you don't. I realize it's not a rational thought, but it's also a thought that carries a lot of emotion and feeling behind it so it obviously comes from an important place. I intend to explore it with my T and see where it leads.
You said yourself in the paragraph above that you email him multiple times a day. Don't you think that's a bit much? (If you really be honest with yourself and look deep inside?)
**** I don't have to look deep inside. I know it is a bit much, and have known it for a while and felt unable to sit with the anxiety anyway, even knowing that rationally I probably shouldn't email him so much. He told me it's fine, I didn't do anything wrong, that it's like when his kids call out to him when he's at home and they just want to know where he is and then they go back to what they are doing, that that's all it is. I am trying very hard to believe him that I didn't do something wrong. And I do believe that in his eyes (although possibly not to an outside observer who only reads what I write here and doesn't see anything else about my interactions with T) it really wasn't wrong and that he really isn't upset about it. He's a very relaxed sort of person and I don't think much really upsets him.
I remember one post where you said (recently) that you emailed him 9 times one day! I also remember several times when you get upset/angry and say you aren't going to email him anymore... and that lasts about an hour.
*** Right, I get upset and angry *at myself* because I feel that I am e-mailing too much.
Really, for boundry and structure, he needs to put his foot down a bit and I think that it's good that he did. Don't get me wrong, I email my therapist also, but she's never put a number on it... I've also never abused it.
**** I don't think I abused it. It's not a word my T would use, so it's not a word I choose to use either. I also choose not to see it as him putting his foot down, because that implies I was in trouble, which I certainly did not feel in session with him. I choose to frame it the way he did, as just the next step to take in my healing.
I think you will find that if you don't run to email him at the slightest sign of anxiety or discomfort, you will find that you really can get through much more than you think you can.
*** I think that was his point, and I completely agree with that from the logical adult part of me. The little girl vehemently doesn't agree with that, but that's what we're working on in therapy is getting the adult to be able to soothe the little girl.
Besides, needing our therapists is one thing, but do you really want to be emailing him multiple times a day? 9 times a day? You don't think that's a bit much?
**** I said later on in my post if you read that far (I know it was long) that I do not want to feel I need to email him that much, and that I told him that.
>
> I hope this new arrangement works out for you.*** Me too, and I'm confident it will.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 12:37:04
In reply to change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by sunnydays on April 12, 2008, at 17:18:55
I'm sorry I shared this. I guess I thought I wanted reactions to it, but maybe I didn't. I thought I made it clear in my post that I understand it was necessary for him and that the adult part of me actually is fine with it. I'm a little surprised at the lack of responses too, but maybe it triggered some people. If so, I'm really sorry. I've been thinking I need to cut back my Babbling anyway, so maybe this is a good time to do so. I don't know if I will or not, but I will consider it, as I have been considering it for a while anyway. Again, I'm sorry if my post upset anyone.
sunnydays
Posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 13:10:02
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 12:37:04
> I'm sorry I shared this. I guess I thought I wanted reactions to it, but maybe I didn't.
**It's ok, thanks. Maybe people are just tired of it?
> I thought I made it clear in my post that I understand it was necessary for him and that the adult part of me actually is fine with it.
**I didn't even bother to respond to your above post because it seems like you always want to put so much emphasis on "the little girl part". We get it. @@
> I'm a little surprised at the lack of responses too, but maybe it triggered some people. If so, I'm really sorry.
**LOLOL! Seriously. Triggering? Why would it be triggering? Nothing triggering about it. If anything, no nevermind.
> I've been thinking I need to cut back my Babbling anyway, so maybe this is a good time to do so. I don't know if I will or not, but I will consider it, as I have been considering it for a while anyway. Again, I'm sorry if my post upset anyone.
**Ok!
Posted by vwoolf on April 13, 2008, at 14:15:57
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 13:10:02
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 14:33:57
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 13:10:02
Well, I guess anyone that's tired of it can just skip reading my posts. I put a lot of emphasis on the little girl part because my T does too, and that's how we frame the big split I feel inside me. I know there are some other posters here that talk about that same split, so I don't think I'm unique. I thought it might be triggering for some the idea of my T setting limits like that because there are other people here that share my fear of abandonment by their T's. But I put emphasis on the little girl because my T encourages me to do visualizations with that and imagine the adult soothing the little girl and things like that. I have trouble believing it's ok to have that part of me, but I'm beginning to understand that with trauma and complex PTSD, it's almost expected by my T.
Anyway, it's fine if you don't agree with the approach I am taking in my therapy (and I can't really tell whether you do or whether you're just offering up ideas to think about). My therapist agrees, so that's all that really matters to me I guess. I come here for support when I'm feeling shaky, so I don't always post here about all the healthy things I do in my life... I tend to emphasize the not-so-healthy things here, so people probably only see one side of me.
sunnydays
Posted by Deputy Racer on April 13, 2008, at 14:36:19
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by BlueBalloon on April 13, 2008, at 9:58:57
>
>You said yourself in the paragraph above that you email him multiple times a day. Don't you think that's a bit much? ... for boundry and structure, he needs to put his foot down a bit ... I email my therapist also, but ... I've also never abused it. ... if you don't run to email him at the slightest sign of anxiety or discomfort, ... 9 times a day? You don't think that's a bit much?Please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
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Deputy Racer
Posted by star008 on April 13, 2008, at 16:02:41
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 12:37:04
sunny,,
sometimes posts get alot of reponses and sometimes they don't. Try not to take it personally. You are right, it is a good sign that you are moving forward.. I think the T has a good point in saying everythng comes out in email and your sessions might be better with out so much of it. It didn't sound to me like he is trying to get you to leave at all. He is just trying to help you to gain some more independence, (i think). The inner kid doen't like it so much and worries about being abandoned.. I think that is natural too considering some of the history you have probably had.. This is really a good thing, not a negative but I can see how it might upset a part of you.
Posted by AbbieNormal on April 13, 2008, at 16:30:52
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » BlueBalloon, posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 14:33:57
What a great response! I could not have been as strong. (((Sunny)))
Abbie
Posted by rskontos on April 13, 2008, at 16:33:28
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by star008 on April 13, 2008, at 16:02:41
Sunnydays, I would have responded to you too but I was in sunny florida. I agree with Star. He was just trying to help you contain your anxiety and learn to cope with some things on your own and gently help you with boundaries. I don't think this T will ever set you on the road until you both feel you are ready. You are moving forward and if anything you might be nervous about that progress. I get that way myself.
Sorry you did not feel supported when you put something very personal out. I know how hard that is and how it feels to feel like people reacted negatively. we do support you SD.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on April 13, 2008, at 16:34:56
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » star008, posted by rskontos on April 13, 2008, at 16:33:28
but Hi to Star too.
rsk
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by star008 on April 13, 2008, at 16:02:41
> sunny,,
>
> sometimes posts get alot of reponses and sometimes they don't. Try not to take it personally.*** Most of the time I don't take it personally, and I do realize the boards are usually a whole lot quieter on the weekends. I was just in a strong feeling place right that moment. But I'm past that now and feeling ok again. Thanks though. :)
You are right, it is a good sign that you are moving forward.. I think the T has a good point in saying everythng comes out in email and your sessions might be better with out so much of it.
**** Me too. I do agree that when I emailed less we probably had more intense sessions. Not quite sure how it got to where I emailed so much since it started out that I barely emailed at all.
It didn't sound to me like he is trying to get you to leave at all. He is just trying to help you to gain some more independence, (i think). The inner kid doen't like it so much and worries about being abandoned..
**** Yup. I don't really think he wants me to leave since he said he'll see me as long as I want.
I think that is natural too considering some of the history you have probably had.. This is really a good thing, not a negative but I can see how it might upset a part of you.
*** Yeah, I'm trying to be nice to myself too.sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 17:00:12
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » star008, posted by rskontos on April 13, 2008, at 16:33:28
> Sunnydays, I would have responded to you too but I was in sunny florida.
**** Jealous!!! I live in a coooold place, so I wish I was there!! Although spring is coming... :) Hope you had fun.
I agree with Star. He was just trying to help you contain your anxiety and learn to cope with some things on your own and gently help you with boundaries.
**** Yeah, boundaries are one of those things I never had modeled for me, so I don't really have a good sense of them.
I don't think this T will ever set you on the road until you both feel you are ready. You are moving forward and if anything you might be nervous about that progress. I get that way myself.
**** Yes, I get nervous about progress a lot. Even when at the same time I like the progress. Because it means some aspect of my life is changing, some era is coming to an end... that sort of thing. I just keep reminding myself that the next era is going to be even better.
>
> Sorry you did not feel supported when you put something very personal out. I know how hard that is and how it feels to feel like people reacted negatively. we do support you SD.**** Thanks rsk. I was just surprised. But I'm doing ok now.
sunnydays
Posted by gardenergirl on April 13, 2008, at 18:38:52
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » rskontos, posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 17:00:12
Hi sunnydays,
You are awesome, you know? I'm really impressed with how you put this out there for support and how you stayed centered and true to you in responding. What a great role model!About the topic...I can see how both your rational and your little girl sides would have these responses. I think that being aware of them makes understanding yourself and your relationship with your T that much richer. But it also sounds like that richness can make it confusing or maybe requires more emotional energy to process. I'm guessing that with your history, that maybe goes on a lot more often for you and others with similar experiences--having what could seem like contradictory reactions going on to something at the same time.
I feel like I'm rambling and can't quite even describe what I mean, which probably also sort of fits in with this. Anyhow, what I want to say mostly is that I heard. I think I understand. And I think you're awesome. (((((sunnydays))))
gg
Posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 20:02:04
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by gardenergirl on April 13, 2008, at 18:38:52
Thanks gg. I think you understand too. :) It's really hard having what feels like two completely different responses at the same time. And it's gotten to be such a habit to email my T when I feel bad that I keep finding myself feeling something, wanting to email him, and then getting disappointed when I realize I can't - well, I could, but when I think of what I would write I can't seem to think of any words. I have a feeling twice a week is going to end up being a lot more like never for a while at least because it has made me so self-conscious about writing to him.
But I started a new disk to have a journal on my computer (I write so much for school, that I can't stand the thought of keeping a hand-written journal - my hand would fall off!). So I can write in that. And I'm going to get back to drawing, which I used to do a lot.
Thanks for responding,
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on April 13, 2008, at 20:31:07
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » gardenergirl, posted by sunnydays on April 13, 2008, at 20:02:04
I was going to suggest that you might want to journal. :) That way you can reach out to him by talking to him anytime in your journal.
Do you have a picture of him? Or a recording? I have both, and while I rarely listen to the recordings, his picture is on my screensaver, along with pictures of other people who are important to me.
You know, I see some positives in this too. If you can manage to internalize him at least a little, you'll be able to have him with you all the time. Which is the most reliable way to have him, or at least that's my experience.
My therapist says that the "him" I carry around with me is probably better than the him in person. And in some ways he's right. :)
Posted by frida on April 14, 2008, at 8:33:24
In reply to change.... maybe good, maybe not, posted by sunnydays on April 12, 2008, at 17:18:55
Dear Sunnydays,
Thank you for sharing this...i understand your feelings...
My T and I have agreed on a similar thing, because i used to email her a lot and then in session i wouldn't say a word or i wouldn't share the feelings and everything i did in an email. She wanted me to try harder there, to realize that's the best moment to share, even to feel bad, cry, feel...so we're trying. I still email her once a week mostly or twice. But we've talked about it and she told me the same.
Of course for the little girl in me it felt terrifying...it made me feel like she was asking me to handle things alone, and that i should be able to do so, but she explained to me many times (more than one session) and now i believe her :-) I think your T just wants you to connect more in session and work deeper.i understand about the split you talk about , my T says that it's hard sometimes to work through things, when i am re-experiencing it all through the eyes of a 6 year-old little girl. It happens to me all the time and i find it hard to stay in the adult me.
I hope this works out for you. Know that you can talk to him about how this affects you, over and over, until you feel safer about it. He seems like a wonderful T and you are doing such good work together.
All the best,
Frida
Posted by sunnydays on April 14, 2008, at 10:33:53
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by frida on April 14, 2008, at 8:33:24
Thank you Frida. It sounds like you do understand where I am coming from. It is hard. Right now I am too self-conscious to be able to think of anything to write when I do sit down to email him. So I have just been journaling a little bit (although I have been finding that hard). So anyway, thank you for writing. I wish I could respond more, but I'm late right now for something. Thank you.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on April 14, 2008, at 10:38:16
In reply to Re: change.... maybe good, maybe not » sunnydays, posted by Dinah on April 13, 2008, at 20:31:07
> I was going to suggest that you might want to journal. :) That way you can reach out to him by talking to him anytime in your journal.
*** Yes, although right now I am finding it hard to find words to write, either to myself or him, about this. I'm too self-conscious about it I think. But he said he wanted me to keep writing, because I express myself eloquently and he didn't want me to lose that outlet.
>
> Do you have a picture of him? Or a recording? I have both, and while I rarely listen to the recordings, his picture is on my screensaver, along with pictures of other people who are important to me.**** No. I have been thinking of asking to take a picture of him, but I'm worried it would bother me because it might look forced or something, and it might not look like the image I carry in my mind's eye. So maybe I'll stick with that one. :) I do have a stone he gave me to carry around, though.
>
> You know, I see some positives in this too. If you can manage to internalize him at least a little, you'll be able to have him with you all the time. Which is the most reliable way to have him, or at least that's my experience.**** Right. And I think that's what we're working towards. He said, "After all, this should be what we're working towards, not towards you moving in next door." And then I probably looked sad or something, so he backtracked a little and said, "Of course, that would be nice, but that's why you're here after all, right, to work away from that?"
>
> My therapist says that the "him" I carry around with me is probably better than the him in person. And in some ways he's right. :)**** Yeah, I can definitely understand that! My T keeps saying I might not like him so much if I really knew him... which bothers me a little because I think I know the most important things about him and it always makes me wonder what he's referring to!
sunnydays
This is the end of the thread.
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