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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 2ndXround on June 18, 2004, at 1:25:58
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again, posted by beatrix34 on June 17, 2004, at 19:55:30
Hi
Thankyou!
One sentence hit me so hard I started crying...."it's not your fault".
That's how I feel. I feel as if everything is my fault. The destruction of my family.
I carry so much guilt. I feel guilty, that it is my fault, that my daughter started abusing drugs. I feel like an awful mother (awful person) to allow my younger daughter to be exposed to her sister's lifestyle. (she is fine now..but she hated me for allowing it in my house) I feel like I could have saved my marriage if I just listened to my husband and didn't call the police, if I just looked the other way and pretended it was not happening. But I couldn't ignore reality...my daughter was becoming an addict, she had taken after me...god help her. I feel guilty for that too. I couldn't ignore what was happening to my daughters...and me. I know I am killing myself. I wonder if having an 'addictive personality', and acknowledging it, makes it harder to ignore the realities of life. Then again, I know the guilt I feel is not mine alone, yet I can't make myself accept that.
Sorry to ramble....
What I was trying to say about "It's not your fault"....it is the first time I have heard anyone say that to me.
It is such a relief to hear someone say that...because I needed someone to vendicate what I needed to be true......it is not my fault! I am not saying I was not wrong and I certainly admit I should have done things differently. But life does not give you rehearsals before it's live.
I am an addict, an alcoholic and 20 years does not change that. My daughter's an addict...it is not my fault. In fact, (while I was clean) I was the best darn mother a child could ever wish for.
so....I took everyone's advice and went a step farther...I called my daughter and asked if she would bring me to one of her NA meetings....she accepted....we go tomorrow.
God this is hard.
Please write again......
Posted by 2ndXround on June 18, 2004, at 1:47:51
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again » beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on June 18, 2004, at 1:25:58
Hi
I blew it...I am new and my post above was supposed to be a reply to yesterdays post....only I posted yesterdays post on the wrong board (medications board).
What a way to start!
Sorry
Posted by mcp on June 18, 2004, at 3:04:20
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again » beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on June 18, 2004, at 1:25:58
I think it is great that you are going with your daughter to the NA meeting. Like I said, I totally identify with all the feeling you are having. Don't think you are unique. There are a lot of us suffering out there with our addictions. As I said before, you number one priority in life over everything else is and has to be staying sober. It has to be for you. All the other stuff(family, work) will take care of themselves only if you are sober. Feel free to write me at mcpark@socal.rr.com if you want to chat. You are doing a good thing. Stay strong and KNOW that it will get better.
Posted by chemist on June 18, 2004, at 3:53:55
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again » beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on June 18, 2004, at 1:25:58
hello there, chemist here...it's not your fault. please respond. all the best, chemist
p.s. we have a lot to talk about
Posted by beatrix34 on June 18, 2004, at 21:16:22
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again » 2ndXround, posted by chemist on June 18, 2004, at 3:53:55
Hi there -
I was so happy to see your post. I'm glad that you heard that this is not your fault. It is one of the most important things I had to learn when I decided to admit that I had a disease. You're right, it doesn't excuse any of the behavior that takes while a person is active in their addiction, but, for me, it made me more able to start the process of forgiving myself. I find that is the hardest thing to do.
I think you did the right and honest thing in calling the police. If that is what it took to end your marriage, iy's too bad (not a nice thing to have to go through at all)...but... when you get through this, you will be able to look back on it and say "I did what I needed to do to maintain my integrity". This is a huge thing. It was a brave thing to do and things seem to be on the right path since that happened. Although you may not see it now, know that the light is at the end of the tunnel waiting for you to get to the other side. You have started your journey by the sounds of it.
I know the feeling of walking into the NA rooms, it's a tough place to be when all you want to do is run away from all the guilt and aweful feelings that reel around. It's very brave of you to take that first step again. I know you did it once and you can do it again.
Please try and take care of yourself in the meantime...baths worked for me :)
I will check back on the board. I'm here pretty much daily :)
(((2ndXround)))
Posted by 2ndXround on June 21, 2004, at 4:03:51
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again, posted by mcp on June 18, 2004, at 3:04:20
Hi
I did it..I went to the NA meeting with my daughter. I am not too proud on myself for being such a chicken though....when asked, I stood up and said my name and that I was here with my daughter...not that I was an addict.
I don't know if anyone here can relate to being a mother of an adult (not a young child), and having to actually say in front of her and the rest of the world that "I am an addict"
I am still her mother....and feel as if I should keep certain things private....there is still a certain amount of respect and a trust issue at work. As a parent I feel the need to protect my daughter, have her trust me to love her and be there for her.
Admitting to being an addict, an alcoholic, in front of a bunch of people while my daughter is there is not something she (or me) is proud of. "Oh yea, that's my mom the crack addict". How can a daughter be proud of that? Or trust my as a mother?
This is a stumbling block I didn't expect to come accross.
Any ideas?
Please let me know
Thankyou
Posted by beatrix34 on June 22, 2004, at 22:40:43
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again, posted by 2ndXround on June 21, 2004, at 4:03:51
I can't say that I have children that are adults...but...coming from the other side, a child of an addict, and getting in touch with my dad after I realised what was happening to me, and how similar we were in our addiction, made my bond to my father stronger. I didn't feel ashamed of him, instead I felt like I had someone who was close to me that could relate to the feelings I was going through at the time. I have since lost my father, and I have to say, this was a turning point in our relationship. I gained a new understanding of the things that had happened throughout out our relationship (or lack there of) and in the end, I was able to sit by him as he passed away.
I too was afraid to admit this out loud to a room full of people. Maybe if you guys go to the same meeting, you can choose a meeting that splits into a coupls of different meetings (ie a 1, 2, 3 meeting, and a just for today meeting, or something along those lines). That way you can get comfortable in front of a room, be with your daughter, but have your own space to talke about the things you need to talk about in order to get clean.
Once again, you having this disease is not your fault. It may even eventually bring you and your daughter closer together. I say, take the risk, you're an addict, so is she. Chances are that she is not going to judge you for your addiction, she understands it. I know this is hard to see but I am the daughter, and this is how I felt.
I actually felt proud of my dad and all he had overcome by the time we had to say good-bye. This is a progam of honesty, sometimes it's the hardest thing to do but the results of being honest with yourself and others, in my experience, has never turned out to be as aweful as I have made them out to be in my mind. In fact, I have often looked back after walking through another door of fear and thought to myself...wow, what took me so long. With honesty comes relief and freedom.
Chances are, you are good mother, and a good person, with good intentions, but you were dealt the disease of addiction. You can overcome it, but the main way I have done it so far has been to get honest with myself and everyone around me. Sometimes I find myself falling back into the confort of a little white lie, and I then know that it's time to hit a lot of meetings. Honesty is my gage of how my recovery is going. Fear was all that held me back, now I have faith that it will all be alright in the long run. It's scary as hell but it's all been worth it.
I know it's not exactly where you are coming from in your question but it's the way I can best relate to your situation.
Please, keep going to meetings. I am sending you all good thoughts.
Bea
Posted by 2ndXround on June 23, 2004, at 4:52:37
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again, posted by beatrix34 on June 22, 2004, at 22:40:43
Hi
It's long but I need to say it. I hope you don't fall asleep!
No...your answer was exactly what I needed to hear. It made me remember that, like you, my father was an alcoholic who died of alcoholism at 56. My mom is an alcoholic too, who is abusive when drunk.
I too was at his bedside when he died....and the last year of his life we had become closer then we ever had before (no closeness)...he had stopped drinking. I was SOOOO proud of him! I had been clean for over two years of meth addiction/alcohol. He didn't know. He suffered something awful. But it was too late. I have always been angry, thought it unfair, that he had finally stopped, had finally found the strength, had suffered but did not give up....only to die. But I came to respect him and understand why my childhood was not like everyone elses.
But it also changed the way I thought about him. I no longer related to him in the 'socially accepted' relationship of a father/daughter. He became a real person, a needy person, a person with weaknesses, a person who was not invinceable, a person who was not strong and could not protect me. I guess the change was from a child's perspective of a father, to an adult's perspective. But I felt a sense of lose.
I don't want to become just another person to my daughter. I am her mother and I love being her mother. I want to keep up the facade, and in her eyes continue to be the special, perfect, loving, strong mother who will protect her and 'fix' all the wrongs, like when I could kiss a 'booboo' and make it go away. Otherwise, I think I am going lose her, be seen as a failure as a mother....and lose my meaning in life, my place in life.
That probably doesn't make much sense to you. But moms are very special people...and so are their children.
That is who I am and who I have been for 22 years.
My fear of being a failure or seen as a failure as a mom is making me say something in my defense....(:...I was chosen Mother of the Year in my county, I was Girl Scout leader for both my daughters, I volunteered at both schools 20 hours/week as school nurse, taught CPR, drove to all the field trips, organized fund drives, Pres of Gymnastics Club...you name it. My daughter told me I am a wonderful mom, but too wonderful. She said I needed to let some of her 'booboos' go unkissed sometimes so she could learn how to cope with living in the world. She's right.
And through it all I never drank or used.....until 3 years ago.
You are right, I am afraid. I am a failure as a person and a mother. I'm afraid all my past years of being a success will be forgotten, and only what I am in the present will count. I am so afraid admitting my personal failure (being an addict again) will result in the automatic asumption by others that I am a failure as a mother too, that it is my fault my daughter used drugs.....and I am not. But people who are not addicts, do not see us being capable of excelling at anything, of being a good parent...even if I have been clean for 20 years. And all they have to do is look at my daughter and say "Poor thing never had a chance, of course she is an addict, with a mother like that...."
I am sorry for going on....you really touched on something...and helped me understand what might be blocking my progress. Do you think my fears are totally unfounded, or can you see the truth in some of them?
I hope you will post me again....you have helped so much...and I love knowing someone is thinking of me.
I am going to another meeting with her tomorrow....and then I thought I should find one of my own....what do you think?
Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}
Janis
Posted by beatrix34 on June 23, 2004, at 21:41:30
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again Beatrix34 » beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on June 23, 2004, at 4:52:37
Hi there -
Don't ever think you are putting me to sleep :) I am happy to have the opportunity to listen. Thank you for sharing with us all. I do see your fears in the possible perception that others may have it's odd because everyone (who is not an addict) that I have confided in has ended up being understanding. They are able to see me as a person and not just as "an addict" in the generalized sense. I do see that you would be worried about potentially negating your past 20 clean years as a mother with your daughter. Just think, you and I had parents that were in active addiction for most of our childhood. Your daughter has had a wonderful, clean, caring, loving mother for her childhood years. In my eyes, that will be what ultimately remains in the memories. Three years of using will be more easily erased than 20 years of caring.As for the people in the program, they have all been where you are. Nobody is there to judge you on anything at all. I was scared of that too when I went into NA. I felt like I had to act like I was fine, which is crazy after looking back as everyone knew that the reason I was sitting in the rooms was because I was not fine. There is nobody in there that cannot relate to you in one way or another, or who has not been in the same, or even worse a situation than you. I feel for you as I can relate well to very strong feelings of shame. You are still the same person now as you were when you were clean. , just a little further from the surface :)
As far as the meetings go, I say go to whichever you feel most comfortable in. If that means going to a couple more with your daughter and sitting in another break out meeting, or just sitting quietly that's ok. If you feel strong enough to go to one on your own that would be good for you too. What about talking to another woman at one meeting and asking to go with her to a different meeting? That way you have more than one person to walk into the rooms with? Just a couple of thoughts. Did you get any phone numbers when you were at the last meeting? Was it any easier than the first one you went to?
If I was in the same area I would go with you in a heartbeat. :) I am in the Denver area...not sure where you are.
Again, hang in there... ((((Janis)))) big hug to you!
I guess in short, I do think that your fears are valid and real, but I also think that you may be doing the same thing you daughter complained of by trying to keep this quiet. You can't protect her, she has to love you for you. Remember, you're worth it and 3 hard years does not wipe out 20 good ones.
I hope you post again soon.
Bea
Posted by 2ndXround on June 25, 2004, at 6:32:28
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again Beatrix34, posted by beatrix34 on June 23, 2004, at 21:41:30
Hi Beatrix
I wish you were here!
I did get some numbers, but I am not a very social person. In fact I am down right shy...and lack confidence. People who have worked with me don't believe me when I say that...so I guess I put on a good show.
But I don't want to put on a show now...I think I need to let that scared, weak person inside me take center stage.....and be accepted as a good person who does not have to suffer, who is strong and can fight their addiction. But I also need to be accepted as weak right now....and feel like it is OK to be weak and need help. That is something I have not let anyone see in over 20 years. It takes a lot of trust.....and it is scary.
Did you feel like that?
Posted by beatrix34 on June 26, 2004, at 21:35:01
In reply to Re: Meth-20 years Clean-addicted again Beatrix34, posted by 2ndXround on June 25, 2004, at 6:32:28
Hi there - I definitely felt like that when starting into recovery. I sometimes still feel like that but for the most part the person that I am now is the person that I really feel that I am. I even dressed differently when I first started in NA. I wore big overalls and big baggy clothes in general to try and hide me. Over the years I have discovered who I am more and more and feel way more comfortable in my own skin. I do sometimes have to meet that scared, insecure person within myself again but I am a little more able to step outside myself and see the woman that I have become through recovery. I too am also good at putting on a show to make everyone believe that I am ok and I know that showing the insecure, more needy side (I hesitate to say weak because I beleive now that everyone feels this way) is a very vulnerable place to be. It's scary. People will embrace thatside as well though and in fact you will gain a certain level of respect from the people that you choose to show this side of yourself to. Then, also, people will be able to start to help support you. I think you are in fact stronger than you give yourself credit in facing this fear and not weak at all. I hope that you are able to let some people in on how you are really feeling. It's important for you to feel that it is ok to be experiencing all of these feelings. It's strange because I can relate to knowing things intellectually yet not feeling them. It will happen that the two sync up...the mind and the heart that is. I have faith that you can do this.
In short, in my recovery I have stopped using, found faith, stopped smoking, gotten married, moved to a new country, started to run, I actually ran a half marathon this morning, and the biggest of all, started to like myself. I have even started (still early days) to learn to embrace that scared, anxious, insecure little girl that still lives inside me. These things are more than I ever thought I would receive in recovery. I just figured that I would let you knowa couple of things that it has given to me, although you have already experienced some of these things during your 20 years clean. You can get that back.
I will be sending you all good thoughts and know that I am here and on your side so no matter what you are not walking into that room on your own. I hope you take the risk. Let me know how it goes and know that I am hear to listen if you need a bit more support before walking into that situation.
(((2ndXround)))
This is the end of the thread.
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