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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
I've been drinking for about 16 months and became extremely addicted somewhere between the 6th and 9th month. I first sought inpatient detox in October of last year.
Today I counted up how many times I've detoxed since then (the past 7 months) and it was 9 times in inpatient treatment! A few times I admit I left earlier than I should have, because I missed my little boy- or maybe that was just an excuse to leave because I wanted to get out and drink? I don't know!
I've also tried a few times to stop drinking by myself at home. Those times I went 2 or 3 days without drinking, but then went right back to it.
I feel so pathetic! Before one of my most recent inpatient detoxes, I was so messed up. I literally had to drink my vodka in the bathroom because I'd immediately throw up half of what I swallowed, no matter how hard I tried to keep it down. But I still kept drinking because my physical withdrawals are so bad- shaking, sweating, nausea, vomiting, agitation, hallucinations, feeling like bugs crawling all over me.
As soon as I got out of my last detox I started drinking AGAIN. It's not as bad (yet) as it has been in the past and I am back to wine instead of vodka but I'm still so disgusted with myself and I know it will get worse again unless I stop.
I even got a prescription for valium. I have about 60 5mg tablets I think. I got it thinking I could use it for self-detox, but I haven't been able to give it a real try. I keep on buying the wine and telling myself I'll switch to Valium tomorrow and then taper off the Valium- but I don't DO it.
Am I a worse than average case or is this something most alcoholics go through before sobriety lasts?
Any advice, information or personal stories would be greatly appreciated. I'm not really suicidal I don't think (I couldn't do that to my baby) but to be honest I'd rather be dead than live the rest of a life that is centered on obtaining, hiding and drinking alcohol.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by partlycloudy on May 19, 2004, at 10:40:03
In reply to Alcohol: feeling doomed. Is there any hope for me?, posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
((((Caper)))) I struggle too with this hiding drinking. The only thing that works for me is to through all the stuff at home down the drain and I have to force myself not to buy more. I'd love to say that this has done the trick for me, but I relapse alarmingly regularly. Have to gone to any AA meetings? Many people swear by it. The whole shame/hiding thing is such an embarassment to me. I have to believe that ultimately I will overcome this. It took a lifetime for me to develop this behaviour and problem, so try to forgive yourself if you stumble.
Strength in numbers, maybe?
Posted by antigua on May 19, 2004, at 15:07:06
In reply to Alcohol: feeling doomed. Is there any hope for me?, posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
There is hope for you. I promise you that you aren't alone and I wish you didn't feel so badly about yourself. email me at antigua 5264 at yahoo if you want to talk.
antigua
Posted by arrie on May 19, 2004, at 23:04:14
In reply to Alcohol: feeling doomed. Is there any hope for me?, posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
You sound awful hard on yourself, maybe you should let up on the self hate first. I am seeing a specialist in about 5 weeks to help me with a narcotic problem. In the meantime I just try to hold steady, not use more, you know. Maybe you could just get it down first with the wine if that is possible, then try your plan. I never realized how many people suffer with addictions until it hit home for me with pain killers. I am not happy with myself trust me, but you have to love yourself first, just because it boosts you to believe that you are worthy of being or recieving healing. Thats where I am at, God Bless.
Posted by Impermanence on May 19, 2004, at 23:11:52
In reply to Alcohol: feeling doomed. Is there any hope for me?, posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
My thoughts are with you Caper, I understand exactly how you feel. Of course there is hope for you, there is always hope, in fact you have to change your mind set from "is there hope" to "I WILL do this". The power of negitve thought for us addicts is devastating, in turn the power of positive thinking although tedious is what will get you through this.
Unfortunately alcoholism is something thats likely to be with you your whole life, but with support and will power something that you and not alcohol can be in control of.Although one drink is all it takes to lead some people on a path of self destruction 16 months is not a very long time drinking and it does prove you have a very addictive personality. It would be wise of you to keep getting help and talking to people before the problem goes from months to years, which as I well know can easily happen my friend.
Us addicts usually have a powerful drive in us and if the viod when off alcohol is not filled with other intrests and hobbies our engines will revert back towards the drink.
I relapse (drink and drugs) all the time, it can be very disheartening. I feel o.k. for a few days or weeks and then a certain situation or mood will come along and I forget or should I say "choose" to forget the seriousness of my problem and end up binge drinking for a week or so, four occasions ended the binge with a serious sucuide attempt, three which have landed me in a psychiatric ward.
The most important thing for me was to get back on my feet and start all over again. I tried not to worry about if I'd ever drink again, or look to far into the future, just do it day by day and try to build up some sort of a life while I'm clean and sober.Seven years of alcohol and drug abuse have left me with terrible anxiety (social phobia) and periods of depression, fatigue and insomnia which has really messed up and complicated my life. I take antidepressants, benzodiazepines and sleeping tablets every day and the benzos now are as much of a problem for me now as any drug was. Be very careful with the Valium!!!
You seem like an intelligent person Caper with alot to offer the world, never give up no matter how many times you fall. It's very common to relapse again and again before you start to get a grip on things, dont let it get you down. You also have a child to think about.
One thing I've learned about alcoholism / addiction is you have to truly want to give up before you actually do. It takes time and sometimes alot of suffering before you start to change your ways and realize the quick fix is never going to get you anywhere. A glass of wine or a bottle of vodka, it's all the same, you're an alcoholic who cannot drink anymore. It's killing you slowly and hurting those who care about you.
I've devoloped a faith in God and meditation over the last couple of years and this has really helped me, every day is still a battle but I'm learning to live in the moment and just "feel" instead of numbing myself so much. I know now I'll get through this but like you it's going to take time and effort.
I'll think of you next time I pray.
Take care and stay positive.
Posted by antigua on May 21, 2004, at 8:54:37
In reply to Alcohol: feeling doomed. Is there any hope for me?, posted by Caper on May 19, 2004, at 10:14:39
Posted by Caper on May 21, 2004, at 10:17:55
In reply to Caper, how are you? (nm), posted by antigua on May 21, 2004, at 8:54:37
Thanks everyone for all the support. Sorry I was too depressed to answer for a while.
Anyway, I'm okay. Not good, but trying to take some positive action. I've decided to try my own detox at home again this weekend. I'm already tapering the wine and I'm ready with a bunch of Valium for when the withdrawals kick in. I've decided that at bedtime tonight I will dump any alcohol I have left and just take the Valium to ease the pain. I looked up various detox protocols in medical journals and plan to follow their ways of dosing/tapering of the valium.
I'm trying to be hopeful, but just in case this doesn't work I've also got a back up plan: a list of area detox/psych units that take my insurance. I'm only considering ones I haven't tried before, and if I do have to go to one I've vowed to stay until the doctors say it's okay to leave no matter how much I miss my son. My son even said to me once "I miss you lots and I don't like it when you're gone but I don't care how long you have to stay in the hospital if it will make you better and not sad anymore". He knows about the alcoholism too.
So, with any luck I'll be alcohol free in about a week and then will consider an intensive outpatient program so I don't slip up again.
Any comments or suggestions relating to my plans would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Caper
Posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 16:20:54
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you?, posted by Caper on May 21, 2004, at 10:17:55
"I miss you lots and I don't like it when you're gone but I don't care how long you have to stay in the hospital if it will make you better and not sad anymore".
That touched me Caper, you're a lucky man you know. You have a little voice that loves you. Someday he will become a big voice and I'm sure he's going to want a strong, sober dad around to guide him in this tough unforgiving world. Someone who can show him the problems you've been a victim of..
This may sound harsh but all the detox/psychiatric units in the world can't stop someone drinking unless they really want to stop drinking. You must change from within Caper.I have to confess something tonight, I bought a bottle of Pernod thinking "ahh what the hell, it's minty, it's not like vodka", I'm a shithead Caper, I'm nearly finished the bottle and stuffing mints down my gob to kill the 40% alcohol smell. I've just sadly relapsed again, I feel good for now and want more drink. This is no fucking way to live. My family are going out and I'm on the net having a drink pretending everythings o.k.... I feel like such a fucking waster right now, yet again I've proved to myself I will never change. I can't work at the moment, I can't talk to my friends, I can't go out without at least 12mg of bromazepam or a few drinks on me, I'm a mess, but with all the help and support I've got stupid me goes back to square one for a quick fix, no doubt I'll be drinking for a few days. Once I start I can't stop!!
Please don't end up like me Caper, the longer it goes on the more excuses you give yourself.
I think I'll have a cry, drink, benzo and a spliff now, I'm not on top form.Take care brother, all we can do is keep going, what else is there???
Be strong Caper, If you're drinking right now, cling virtual glasses with me, coz I'm gonna get drunk.
Take care man.
Posted by partlycloudy on May 21, 2004, at 16:32:38
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you?, posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 16:20:54
(((Impermanence))) I have been there so many times, my friend. It's such a slippery slope and you think one thing will make you feel better, then something else perhaps and then before you know it, you're out of your tree. I have the unfortunate habit of blacking out if I have alcohol, then apparently I call my mother and worry her to distraction. I haven't the slightest clue what I say.
I do realize that I am hiding behind these substances - alcohol and weed - and I couldn't even tell you what I am hiding from. Well, that's a lie. I don't want the world to figure out that I am a first class LOSER. Bipolar2, GAD, panic attacks, and I want the world to love me back!!?? No wonder I'm on so many meds. I don't know why or how my husband puts up with me. He keeps insisting I'm not as bad as I think I am...
If you see any spare self esteem out there, could you send it my way??
In this together with you.
pc
Posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 18:28:29
In reply to Caper, Impermanence, posted by partlycloudy on May 21, 2004, at 16:32:38
Hi partlycloudy, as you can see from my previous post I'm getting pretty drunk and stoned now so forgive me if I go on a bit..
I usually start blacking out after the fourth day of my binge, this usually leads to terrible consequences. I think I can be strong and not drink tomorrow morning, for now I'm on my second bottle of poison and loving it!!! :(You are not a loser my friend, you are a vicim of this fucked up western world we live in. You are a beautiful human being whose just doing the best you can with the addictions you have and the suffering you've been through. You must understand though, you (like me) are taking the easy way out, we know drink is our worst enemy, and weed plays a big part in our unhappiness but yet we go for the quick fix all the same.
It takes alot of will power to just sit through the night with a take away and a dvd.
You are better than the dealers and corporations that sell you shit partlycloudy, you are stronger than you think. You like me must suffer the boredom tomorrow, it's the only way we'll ever get better.
Find something productive to do instead of getting drunk and stoned, you really have it in you to make a poor person happy (ever think of that).
We are lucky enough to be well off and able to afford to use the net every night, trust me (as I know from heroin addicted friends) it's very easy to fall into the hole and very hard to get out of.It's lovely to have a board like this and talk to others like me in tough situations, I will keep coming back here to see how you are getting on and I will share my experience with you.
Tonight I'm gonna keep drinking, I've started now so I won't stop. To be honest I couldent if I tried, had a spliff just there and I've got a grin from ear to ear so lets enjoy tonight and start again tomorrow...My thoughts are with you all, I know many of you out there are really suffering, things will get brighter, they always do some day.
Lots of love, drunk Impermanence.xxx
Posted by Caper on May 21, 2004, at 21:20:51
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you?, posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 16:20:54
Hi Impermanance,
Thanks for your post- it really helps to know I'm not the only one, though it does make me sad that others are going through this hell too. I wouldn't wish addiction on my worst enemy.
You're right- I am very lucky to have my son but I'm actually a lucky woman, not man. *smile* I guess my name here is a bit ambiguous. I also agree with you that he needs a strong sober parent (especially since he only has one- he has no relationship with his father).
I understand what you mean about detox- it's easy not to drink there. The trick is finding what triggers your drinking (your excuses for drinking is what I think "triggers" really are) and finding other ways to deal with them and _wanting_ to use those other coping skills rather than taking the easy way out- the bottle.
I'm sorry to hear about your relapse today but you are NOT a shithead or a waster. If you are then so am I, and I doubt you'd ever call me those names. I know it's hard but try to be as kind to yourself as you are to others with our shared problem. None of us signed up for this. It's not like we said "cool, let's get addicted, that will be awesome!" If you're like me (and it sounds like you are) it just sort of snuck up on you right? It made things better or fun or whatever and before you knew it you _needed_ it rather than just wanting it. It is just such an incredibly easy way to make things seem better (for a few hours or days). It's almost seductive, the way it makes you think "this time will be different" or "fuck it- I deserve it just this one night" or "it's only wine now, not vodka, I can handle it". I think of alcohol as my own personal devil.
At the moment I'm still drinking too, and I think I will have to continue through the weekend possibly, to keep my family from noticing the withdrawal signs. I'm going to try to stop tonight at midnight and use Valium instead, but if I look/act sick tomorrow I'll have to put off the self detox until Tuesday when I'll be alone and not have to hide my misery.
Please don't think this relapse proves you will never change! Despite the pessimistic tone of my first post in this thread, I do believe alcoholism can be beaten. I've met people who drank for many years and now have 10+ years sobriety and what they all have in common is that none of them quit the first several times they tried. Several had the quit/relapse cycle for years before they finally got sober for a significant time period. Don't give up! This is just one night (or maybe even a few days, as you say) but there is always another chance.
You really do sound so much like me at the moment. I also am not working (I'm 3 classes away from a law degree but had to take medical leave because of the depression that came before the alcohol problem) and I've pushed my friends away because I'm ashamed of what I've become.
I think we both need to try to forgive ourselves for the past and accept that alcohol will always be a problem for us, but we have to just do the best we can and not expect perfection. If we slip, we get up again and try to figure out what made us slip.
I'm really babbling on and on so I'll try to stop now. I hope I've made some sense.
Again, I appreciate your posts and I'll be thinking of you. Take care.
Caper
> "I miss you lots and I don't like it when you're gone but I don't care how long you have to stay in the hospital if it will make you better and not sad anymore".
> That touched me Caper, you're a lucky man you know. You have a little voice that loves you. Someday he will become a big voice and I'm sure he's going to want a strong, sober dad around to guide him in this tough unforgiving world. Someone who can show him the problems you've been a victim of..
> This may sound harsh but all the detox/psychiatric units in the world can't stop someone drinking unless they really want to stop drinking. You must change from within Caper.
>
> I have to confess something tonight, I bought a bottle of Pernod thinking "ahh what the hell, it's minty, it's not like vodka", I'm a shithead Caper, I'm nearly finished the bottle and stuffing mints down my gob to kill the 40% alcohol smell. I've just sadly relapsed again, I feel good for now and want more drink. This is no fucking way to live. My family are going out and I'm on the net having a drink pretending everythings o.k.... I feel like such a fucking waster right now, yet again I've proved to myself I will never change. I can't work at the moment, I can't talk to my friends, I can't go out without at least 12mg of bromazepam or a few drinks on me, I'm a mess, but with all the help and support I've got stupid me goes back to square one for a quick fix, no doubt I'll be drinking for a few days. Once I start I can't stop!!
>
> Please don't end up like me Caper, the longer it goes on the more excuses you give yourself.
> I think I'll have a cry, drink, benzo and a spliff now, I'm not on top form.
>
> Take care brother, all we can do is keep going, what else is there???
> Be strong Caper, If you're drinking right now, cling virtual glasses with me, coz I'm gonna get drunk.
> Take care man.
Posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 23:16:12
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you? » Impermanence, posted by Caper on May 21, 2004, at 21:20:51
So sorry to mistake you for a man. Male or female I don't think it matters, it's all the same when you're suffering.
I'm waking up now, just a few drinks left before I have to call it bed time, I'm very fucked right now so I'll post something more close to the heart tomorrow hun.
So sorry to leave it at that, I'm seeing double and it toke much effort to type what I did.
Take care Caper, i'll get bak to you tomorrow.
Much lovexxx.
Posted by Caper on May 22, 2004, at 2:02:42
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you?, posted by Impermanence on May 21, 2004, at 23:16:12
It's okay, I wasn't at all upset by the gender mistake- just wanted to clarify. I do agree that when it comes to addiction, gender really doesn't matter much. It's the same hell to all.
I look forward to hearing from you again. Don't forget what I said in my previous post about forgiving yourself for slips and relapses, and being as kind to yourself as you are to others here. Any addict knows we don't _like_ being this way, and that drinking stopped being "fun" long ago. It's just that the alcohol has gotten a hold on us that's very hard to break, both physically and mentally. Don't give up hope please and I will try not to either.
Hope you have a good night's rest.
Hugs,
Caper
P.S. Don't forget to drink lots of water- dehydration makes withdrawal/hangovers much worse.
P.P.S. If you get a chance and feel comfortable sharing, sometime I'd like to hear how you got started with your alcohol problem. I still can't believe how fast mine developed and how oblivious I was to the fact that I was getting dependent. Even now it blows my mind how I could have fallen so far, so fast.
> So sorry to mistake you for a man. Male or female I don't think it matters, it's all the same when you're suffering.
> I'm waking up now, just a few drinks left before I have to call it bed time, I'm very fucked right now so I'll post something more close to the heart tomorrow hun.
> So sorry to leave it at that, I'm seeing double and it toke much effort to type what I did.
> Take care Caper, i'll get bak to you tomorrow.
> Much lovexxx.
>
>
Posted by partlycloudy on May 24, 2004, at 8:19:16
In reply to Re: Caper, how are you? » Impermanence, posted by Caper on May 22, 2004, at 2:02:42
I saw that you're interested in how our addictions started. My experience was that my dad was an alcoholic. My parents divorced when I was 16 and I was left to live with my dad (my mom couldn't handle being a parent anymore and wouldn't let me visit for long, much less live with her).
I very promptly started drinking and smoking to escape the living h*ll I found myself in. I started a pattern of waiting for pop to pass out, then I'd drink his booze, and he would have no idea whether he had done it or not.
My 18-year first marriage was based entirely on alcohol. Every single event - good or bad - was marked by beer, wine, martini's, margueritas, it really didn't matter what. I drank daily for the entire marriage.
When I remarried, my husband remarked how much my personality changed when I drank. I would become sarcastic and angry (though not violent), and usually cry. After trying AA for over a year, I decided I was being brainwashed and left.
Eventually I got a dx of bipolar2, GAD and panic attacks. I have continued my pattern of drinking in secret. As far as anyone I work or socialize (now that's a laugh) with, I don't drink. The second I'm alone for an evening with just myself rattling around in my head, I drink. I smoke. I black out, I wake up the next day feeling like dying would be a welcome thing. It is so much worse now that I am on medication, but it still has not deterred me.
At my very core, I don't believe in myself. I am not worthy of my loving husband, my nice comfortable house. Every success at work has been a scam I have pulled on the world - fooled them again! - and when I get fired, say to myself that they caught on.
When you have had a childhood and introduction into adulthood based on being ignored or spurned as I have, it's incredible hard to change that perception into what the world (apprently) really sees.
I've been told that I'm intelligent, well read, pretty, sexy, classy, funny, friendly, supportive... and I wonder - where is she?
I can't see her.
Posted by Impermanence on May 24, 2004, at 22:47:33
In reply to How it all started, posted by partlycloudy on May 24, 2004, at 8:19:16
Hay Caper, Partlycloudy, I hope things are going well. I haven't drank in about 30 hours now so my binge was short lived thank God. I think I can control my drinking much better these days, It's not going to beat me, too much of my life has been taken from me already.
Caper you wanted to know how my alcoholism started, well first off I'm 25, my drinking never became a promblem untill I was about 18.
I was smoking weed and drinking from the age of twelve, taking acid and speed from 14 but there was never a problem, it was just a social thing, a bit of fun, teenagers experimenting.
When I was 16 I took my first E, this was the start of my life spiraling out of control.Ecstasy changed me like you woulden't believe. The first year was great (or so I thought), a whole new world opened up before me, I became a pure pleasure seeker. All my friends and I cared about was E and weed, in a matter of months I was taking about 20 pills and a few grams of speed and smoking about an ounce of weed or hash a week.
Towards the end of that year the comedowns became terrible, severe depression and anxiety had started to creep in and my only way of coping was to take more and more.
At 17 I was a completely different person. I was a mess. I only hung around with my drug abusing friends and a nasty crowd I diden't like being around. I'd discovered cocaine and herion and was a total "polydrug" abuser. I can't remember alot from 17 to 20 and I don't want to either. I still get a chill when I think of how bad I felt during those dark years, they truly where hell, smack was getting a hold and the uppers where destroying my brains. I was so afrid all the time, I wasen't looking after myself, I was killing myself very quickly. As it got harder and harder to keep taking class a drugs at the rate I was, alcohol began to take their place.At 21 I was getting help with the drugs but I was already an alcoholic and not getting or wanting help with the drink. I had stopped going out and just became a prisoner in my own home drinking and smoking weed 24/7 and leaving the class a to a monthly thing. About two years of denial and lies followed, I was sneeking drink into the house by any means possible, it had taken over my life. I was a nervous reck and coulden't do anything to be honest, I had money in the bank and this made things very easy for me.
After four serious sucide attempts things had to change and I've got my life under control.
Over the last two years I can see major changes in me. I've grown spiritually and mentally, making music again, reading, meditating, looking after my self and just basicly grown up.I think my drink problem is getting under control but like you I go for a few days or weeks and then fall for a few days or a week, things are getting better. Although I don't smoke much anymore I'm giving up weed for good, I've grown out of it and it causes a damn sight more problems than many people seem to think. I occasionally fall back on the pills but I hate them and only take them because I'm drunk. I haven't taken coke in over a year and haven't smoked smack in years.
All in all things are getting much better, I can't cope without my bromazepam but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I care about the world I live in now and I really want to be a part of it again. I'm not going to let evil alcohol stop me from getting an education and doing something productive with my life.
I'm suffering a little withdrawal at the momement and I'm a bit messy so forgive me if I went on.
You're a lovely bunch of people and I've no doubt you can do this. Hope to hear from you soon, I'm off to get some sleep.
lots of love. xxx
Posted by Caper on May 27, 2004, at 21:01:39
In reply to Re: How it all started, posted by Impermanence on May 24, 2004, at 22:47:33
Thank you both, partly cloudy and Impermanence for sharing your stories. I'm not usually excessively emotional, but both made me cry a little- both for your sakes and because of what I recognized in myself. You both did help though, and I appreciate your time and honesty. I think looking back on what got us hooked can be helpful- if you don't know where the hole is, you cannot help but fall into it, yes?
So I'm going to start a new thread about this issue, in hopes that 1) those who could benefit from sharing their stories will do so and 2) those who are still "flirting" with addiction might realize the danger.
Thanks again to you both and best wishes on your continued recoveries.
Caper
This is the end of the thread.
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