![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 47. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 9:07:59
I've been cutting myself since I was young, its certainly tapered off a great deal, but I had another recent episode where I did some fairly deep cuts in my right arm... A considerable feat to say the least since I'm right handed...I don't equate this to suicide ideation, but in the times when I've done it, it has been the only thing that snaps me out of whatever trauma I had been experiencing... I'm certainly not 'happy' afterwards, but for some reason I'm distracted enough to distance myself from the mental anguish I was feeling...
I just wanted to know if anyone else has personal or relative experience with this? Why do you do it? As my doctor asked me, how does it make you feel afterwards? I'm wondering what makes someone do this as apposed to not doing it. I've read about children who do this sort of thing as a schizm when they are very young, but I dont think that relates... For me it has always followed a major anxiety attack and also seems to quell that anxiety at least for the moment...
Any insights are greatly appreciated...
Posted by sar on November 8, 2001, at 9:40:11
In reply to Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean?, posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 9:07:59
hey Kid,
you wrote:
but for some reason I'm distracted enough to distance myself from the mental anguish I was feeling...and i've heard this is common for cutters.
> I just wanted to know if anyone else has personal or relative experience with this? Why do you do it?a friend of mine in high school use to make nicks on her arm to escape the mental anguish she was experiencing...a current friend of mine recently sawed her wrists up with a boxcutter because she was feeling so horrible and worthless...a couple of years ago she was very brutally raped and has not recovered from this. as a result of PTSD, she hears "voices" that tell her to harm herself. she says that stelezine (sp?) has been very good at making the voices go away.
but i would imagine it is different with men. there is a book called cutters that you could find at any major bookstore or order online...
As my doctor asked me, how does it make you feel afterwards? I'm wondering what makes someone do this as apposed to not doing it. I've read about children who do this sort of thing as a schizm when they are very young, but I dont think that relates... For me it has always followed a major anxiety attack and also seems to quell that anxiety at least for the moment...what makes us do things that harm ourselves?
> Any insights are greatly appreciated...
i'm sorry i couldn't offer more, as i've never cut myself, but i know it's not uncommon.
love,
sar
Posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 10:04:02
In reply to Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean?, posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 9:07:59
Kid-
I've done this for a long time, and my arms, etc., look like a battlefield. After my doctor found out I'd been doing this he asked me the same question. Here's a 'cliff notes' version of what I told him:
When I'm in so much mental/emotional pain that I can't take anymore, cutting gives me an escape from it. I'm usually in a dissociated state of mind at the time. It briefly gives me respite from the war going on inside me.
Other times, I feel so 'dead' I feel nothing, like a shell of person, the body is there, but my spirit, soul (however you wish to describe it) isn't. When I cut, seeing the blood, feeling of pain afterwards, lets me know there's something there inside me. Taking care of them afterwards, proves to me there's emotion to me afterall. I'm 'caring' for myself. (I realize this may sound psychotic to some-how you can 'care' after you harm yourself in the first place). But that is truly how I feel.
I don't know if this helps or not, but it's the way I see it for myself. I hope it helps.
Kiddo
I've been cutting myself since I was young, its certainly tapered off a great deal, but I had another recent episode where I did some fairly deep cuts in my right arm... A considerable feat to say the least since I'm right handed...
>
> I don't equate this to suicide ideation, but in the times when I've done it, it has been the only thing that snaps me out of whatever trauma I had been experiencing... I'm certainly not 'happy' afterwards, but for some reason I'm distracted enough to distance myself from the mental anguish I was feeling...
>
> I just wanted to know if anyone else has personal or relative experience with this? Why do you do it? As my doctor asked me, how does it make you feel afterwards? I'm wondering what makes someone do this as apposed to not doing it. I've read about children who do this sort of thing as a schizm when they are very young, but I dont think that relates... For me it has always followed a major anxiety attack and also seems to quell that anxiety at least for the moment...
>
> Any insights are greatly appreciated...
Posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 10:19:35
In reply to Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean?, posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 9:07:59
kid_A
I've done my fair share -- and for me it was/is always a way to escape the mental pain I am feeling. I focus so much on the act of cutting, I detach from all else that is going on, including the mental anguish. It is the closest I come to dissociating.
I haven't done it for about 9 months now, and hope to never do so again -- but I don't know if that will be the case. For me, it replaced alcohol as a pain reliever. I simply traded one addiction for another, in my opinion.
And of course, the relief I get is temporary -- followed by a lot of shame. I mean, really, how crazy do you have to be to cut -- at least that is how I always look at it afterwords.
I have read a lot of stuff on cutting. Probably A Bright Red Scream by Marilee Strong is one of the better books on the subject. I even belonged to an email list for awhile a couple of years ago -- you could probably find it pretty quick by doing some searches on the net for cutting. I gave it up because it was too "young" for me and most there seemed to want to continue to self-harm. However, it did help me feel less alone -- when I was first doing it, I felt even crazier because I couldn't imagine anyone else ever wanting to do this.
Anyway -- I do identify. What does it mean? It means you are in a lot of pain -- and it is just a way to cope. And it works.
akc
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2001, at 10:26:57
In reply to Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean?, posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 9:07:59
I have on occasion cut myself lightly, usually when I was agitated or anxious. I did it because it works. Caroline Kettlewell in her memoir Skin Game mentions the silence that cutting brings after the chaos of the previous feelings. They have done research on endorphins being released from self harm, but I'm not sure how it works.
I do have to say though, that while it is an effective coping mechanism in the short term, it is definitely not the best coping mechanism. I have tried very hard not to use it, and in fact it has been some time since I did. I find that talking about the feelings to a good therapist decreases the need to cut. There is an excellent web site about it at www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html. I'm not sure if I typed that correctly, but you can find it doing a google search on Secret Shame.
Posted by tina on November 8, 2001, at 11:19:14
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean? » kid_A, posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 10:04:02
>
> When I'm in so much mental/emotional pain that I can't take anymore, cutting gives me an escape from it. I'm usually in a dissociated state of mind at the time. It briefly gives me respite from the war going on inside me.
>
> Other times, I feel so 'dead' I feel nothing, like a shell of person, the body is there, but my spirit, soul (however you wish to describe it) isn't. When I cut, seeing the blood, feeling of pain afterwards, lets me know there's something there inside me. Taking care of them afterwards, proves to me there's emotion to me afterall. I'm 'caring' for myself. (I realize this may sound psychotic to some-how you can 'care' after you harm yourself in the first place). But that is truly how I feel.
>Kid
Kiddo's description fits my reasons to a T. Sometimes it's because I feel dead and need to see the blood and feel the pain to remind myself that I am indeed alive and real.
Other times it's just because it allows the escape from too much going on inside my head. There is shame associated with it so it's a vicious cycle for me because alot of times, it's shame and/or guilt that makes me feel like I must do it in the first place.I also use it as a punishment sometimes. Issues in my past creep into my mind and I realize that I was "bad" and need to be punished. No one will punish me, I have been forgiven but I have not forgiven myself so I cut to self-punish.
I don't cut as much as I used to though. I mostly beat the daylights out of brick walls and wooden fences. The result is the same though. I see the blood, feel the pain and am distracted from my emotions. I prefer the punching now as it allows some of the built up anger I have inside to come out in a physical way. Cutting still works as an escape but i find there is more satisfaction in the punching.
I've done this since I was very young and I don't see it stopping. it feels too good to me.
Posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 14:50:05
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean?, posted by tina on November 8, 2001, at 11:19:14
Thanks thusfar for all of the great insight, I empathise entirely with what all of you have said as in some way or another at the time I have felt the same.The idea of cutting as a form of punishment, is sometimes how I feel... Like feeling bad about yourself just for feeling bad... It does silence the anxiety though too... And yes, it somehow makes me feel human, that i bleed, that I'm real somehow...
There is an interesting painting you'll probably find in any highschool psych book that was done by a schizophrenic patient... It's a self portrait done as a cross section of the person's skull... one section has him and one of his arms is stripped completely bare to the bone... He said that he felt that if he could do this, he could somehow proove his humanity, that it would shock him back into reality.
I think this is what happens for me, the act is such an act, i mean its almost a ritual, that your distracted totally from your anxiety. Sudenly the shell that you were becomes a person again, and you tend to your wounds... If you cut deep enough, you bleed more than just a little and somehow this makes you feel real. At least that is how I can describe it.
Right now I have a very faint "Whore" written on my left arm, the first cut, and a very deep "Jesus" written on the right arm (i wonder what my substitute pdoc thought of that one), again I'm right handed so I guess I didn't have as fine of controll... I actually went back and fixed the J, in a complete state of normalcy... it looked like a T, and nobody wants "Tesus" carved into their arm for life...
I'm trying hard not to do this, the night it happened I was in a complete stupor, a complete breakdown and I dont remember much of it, a friend from down the street took care of me and drove me to the store to get butterfly closures and bandaids I remember my arm being wrapped in a towel and blood everywhere... Now I'm wearing long sleeves most of the time... I've been here before...
I hopefully won't keep reliving these experiences, I think as AKC said some of the younger people do look at it as some sort of fetish thing that they want to continue... It's not something I'm proud of, but I'm glad there are people to talk to about it.
Posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 19:00:51
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone...., posted by kid_A on November 8, 2001, at 14:50:05
kid_A,
It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
akc
Posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 20:52:38
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone...., posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 19:00:51
AKC-
Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
Kiddo
> kid_A,
>
> It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
>
> It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
>
> Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
>
> akc
Posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 21:35:53
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » akc, posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 20:52:38
If you read my post, I think that is exactly what I said.
> AKC-
>
> Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
>
>
> Kiddo
>
>
> > kid_A,
> >
> > It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
> >
> > It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
> >
> > Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
> >
> > akc
Posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 22:06:00
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » kiddo, posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 21:35:53
Sorry-I did read your post. You also said you didn't quite know how to put it into words-I was just trying to help...I won't bother anymore...
> If you read my post, I think that is exactly what I said.
>
> > AKC-
> >
> > Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
> >
> >
> > Kiddo
> >
> >
> > > kid_A,
> > >
> > > It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
> > >
> > > It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
> > >
> > > Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
> > >
> > > akc
Posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 22:28:24
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » kiddo, posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 21:35:53
I also thought I said that "I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
> If you read my post, I think that is exactly what I said.
>
> > AKC-
> >
> > Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
> >
> >
> > Kiddo
> >
> >
> > > kid_A,
> > >
> > > It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
> > >
> > > It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
> > >
> > > Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
> > >
> > > akc
Posted by mair on November 9, 2001, at 7:31:36
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » akc, posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 22:28:24
kiddo - your post was entirely appropriate - sometimes it helps to see different people put similar concepts into different words and you were injecting your personal experience. I don't know where akc's caustic response came from but just try to let it go.
Did you make it to the pdoc this week?
Mair
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2001, at 8:35:17
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » kiddo, posted by mair on November 9, 2001, at 7:31:36
I didn't closely follow the show last night, but I sure didn't like what I saw about the treatment of the girl who cuts. It's that sort of depiction that would deter people from getting help when they need it.
It certainly didn't fit in with my experiences at all. My ob/gyn was very calm and understanding. She did check to see if I was under the care of a pdoc. My current pdoc completely ignores the cutting, as if he would encourage it by mentioning it. My therapist is calm and nonjudgemental, but of course tries to discourage it by finding better coping skills. I had a previous pdoc who basically fired me over it. Admittedly, my cutting is very superficial and light but the girl on ER didn't look like she cut that deeply either. Maybe I missed something.
What has been your experience with medical practitioners?
Posted by kid_A on November 9, 2001, at 9:18:19
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone...., posted by akc on November 8, 2001, at 19:00:51
akc,
(While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning.)yes, it does, it's like putting yourself up on the alter for sacrifice, yet you are your own punisher, the sacrificer as well as the offering... To me, like i said its a ritual of sorts... And when it's all done, when the act is complete somehow I've ripped my soul out of myself and brought it back to life... When right before i felt so inhuman, somehow i've come to terms w/ my own inate humanity...
And there is control, no one is doing this to me, i am doing it... i am the author of the act, i am the one wielding the razor... i think of them more as battle scars in a war with depression, war wounds from the front... We're at war with ourselves, fighting to stay sane in whatever way we can rip that from ourselves... in anyway possible... cutting just happens to do that for me... After that incident i went up both on my AD and my AP so maybe that will straighten out my emotions... Sometimes its better to feel nothing at all, then to feel imense agony...
thank you so much for your comments. sometimes knowing that there is someone else who feels and does the same as you makes it less shamefull, in some aspects more rational... as crazy as that seems.
(an amnesiac healing)
Posted by akc on November 9, 2001, at 9:20:54
In reply to Re: Cutting... Did anyone see ER?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2001, at 8:35:17
I have had a lot of experience of being treated by doctors for cutting.
I have been to the ER 4 times for stiches and have been treated well 3 of the times. But then again, I didn't try to get up and leave and act as agitated as she did. That would be a tough one for the doctors. The cuts on her leg appeared to be actively bleeding (they showed blood running down her leg from one). They needed to evaluate her. While most cutters are not suicidal, some are and the er docs would be deliquent in their jobs if they didn't get a psych consult. To do so, they would need to help her become calm. What they did was borderline -- I'm not certain it was wrong.
The one time I was not treated well was at one hospital that I have not had good treatment at period. I said I really didn't want a pysch consult, so they put a cop on my door and wouldn't finish dressing the wounds until the pdoc came and evaluated me. It was rude at best. The next time I needed help, I drove 5 extra miles (though I lived only 2 blocks from this hospital at this time), just to get better treatment.
Another thing I do believe is it depends on the doctor you get at the hospital -- or at the doctor's office. I've mentioned before I had a general practioner who I received really bad care from in the three months I had her as my doc -- to the point that she let me suffer great physical pain caused by my gall bladder going south suddenly -- but it was all in my head and was all an attempt to get pain meds because I am an alcoholic of course (another story, another day). But she knew I cut, because she took out the stiches. I don't think she even had a clue what was going on with me -- nor did she even try.
Because cutting is rare, it is a rough thing for people to understand, and I think that includes doctors.
akc
Posted by akc on November 9, 2001, at 9:22:16
In reply to SORRY » akc, posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 22:06:00
I'm a little touchy right now. Just messed up in my head. I shouldn't have made that remark. I just had talked about control in my post -- thought it was the one thing I was clear about. I'll not make such remarks in the future.
akc
> Sorry-I did read your post. You also said you didn't quite know how to put it into words-I was just trying to help...I won't bother anymore...
>
>
>
> > If you read my post, I think that is exactly what I said.
> >
> > > AKC-
> > >
> > > Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kiddo
> > >
> > >
> > > > kid_A,
> > > >
> > > > It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
> > > >
> > > > akc
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 10:43:46
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? What does it mean? » kid_A, posted by kiddo on November 8, 2001, at 10:04:02
Kiddo:
You described it very well. This is why I have cut in the past.
- K.
Posted by kiddo on November 9, 2001, at 11:51:49
In reply to Re: SORRY » kiddo, posted by akc on November 9, 2001, at 9:22:16
Apology accepted, and I hope you'll accept mine. I too was a bit touchy. I was just hurt because I've never had a response like that since I've posted here. I was agreeing with you, putting what you said in my words, hoping my response was in agreement with yours. (hence the question mark).
It's been a bad week for me too. This thing with my pdoc's ex-partner seems to be neverending. It feels hopeless, because, I'm alone on it. You wouldn't believe how many people I've contacted and the response is always " I"m sorry, but unfortunately, there is nothing we can do for you at this time, however, if there's anything we can do for you in the future, please let us know."
I hope things are better for you, and I know (similar) how you feel. I shouldn't have replied the way I did either. Since we've both apologized, maybe we'll be forgiven and not sent the "Please be civil" message :-)
Kiddo
> I'm a little touchy right now. Just messed up in my head. I shouldn't have made that remark. I just had talked about control in my post -- thought it was the one thing I was clear about. I'll not make such remarks in the future.
>
> akc
>
> > Sorry-I did read your post. You also said you didn't quite know how to put it into words-I was just trying to help...I won't bother anymore...
> >
> >
> >
> > > If you read my post, I think that is exactly what I said.
> > >
> > > > AKC-
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps it's the one thing you can control when everything else around you is so out of control? I think I can relate to everything everyone has posted on this thread.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kiddo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > kid_A,
> > > > >
> > > > > It is funny how your post has come along at just this time. I haven't struggled with thoughts of cutting for several months -- since the end of February, beginning of March. But for some reason, this week has been hard -- with the old patterns of each day getting worse rearing its head. I know it is the stress of taking care of my mom -- though she is doing exceptionally well this trip. Her husband is being his usual arrogant self, and for whatever reason, that is bothering me more than usual. But, I just keep hanging on. I don't want to go there again. It is like sobriety for me. I have some time under my belt, and I want to keep building.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is easy to romantize -- and I can just hear the wheels turning in some peoples' heads -- how could that be? While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning. It is hard to put it to words -- I have never even tried. It is something I try to perfect when I do it -- it is something I can control -- how much, how deep, how often.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
> > > > >
> > > > > akc
Posted by kiddo on November 9, 2001, at 14:48:48
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » kiddo, posted by mair on November 9, 2001, at 7:31:36
Mair-
Actually I did make it to the pdoc Wednesday. It was rather sad actually, he was bummed because a pt. passed away. I was kinda bummed because of everything that's been going on-but-I'm tired of dealing with something I can't control at this point, so I'm trying (sometimes not so successfully) not to worry about it.
I broke down and cried regarding something that a visitor to my site told me-I think it was the first time I've actually felt true empathy for someone. I told my pdoc I didn't understand why I was crying, that I've never experienced that before, he told me it wasn't because I was sad, it was because I was empathetic to their needs. I was shocked-I didn't know that's what it was. It was a rather enlightening session.
Kiddo
> kiddo - your post was entirely appropriate - sometimes it helps to see different people put similar concepts into different words and you were injecting your personal experience. I don't know where akc's caustic response came from but just try to let it go.
>
> Did you make it to the pdoc this week?
>
> Mair
Posted by Mair on November 9, 2001, at 20:15:39
In reply to Pdoc apptointment » mair, posted by kiddo on November 9, 2001, at 14:48:48
>
> "I broke down and cried regarding something that a visitor to my site told me-I think it was the first time I've actually felt true empathy for someone. I told my pdoc I didn't understand why I was crying, that I've never experienced that before, he told me it wasn't because I was sad, it was because I was empathetic to their needs. I was shocked-I didn't know that's what it was. It was a rather enlightening session."
>
Kiddo - I hope this means you're not sorry that you went like you thought you might be. Sometimes I think that I'm so self-absorbed and spend so much time analyzing what's going on in my head, that I sort of disregard the fact that my emotions or reactions might be very typical. My therapist occasionally will give me what she calls a "reality check" to let me know that at least in some instances what I am feeling is what anyone might feel. It sounds like this is what you're pdoc is trying to tell you. I'm sure you're not unempathetic - you just maybe don't recognize empathy for what it is.Mair
Posted by kiddo on November 9, 2001, at 20:58:08
In reply to Re: Pdoc apptointment » kiddo, posted by Mair on November 9, 2001, at 20:15:39
> >
> > "I broke down and cried regarding something that a visitor to my site told me-I think it was the first time I've actually felt true empathy for someone. I told my pdoc I didn't understand why I was crying, that I've never experienced that before, he told me it wasn't because I was sad, it was because I was empathetic to their needs. I was shocked-I didn't know that's what it was. It was a rather enlightening session."
> >
> Kiddo - I hope this means you're not sorry that you went like you thought you might be. Sometimes I think that I'm so self-absorbed and spend so much time analyzing what's going on in my head, that I sort of disregard the fact that my emotions or reactions might be very typical. My therapist occasionally will give me what she calls a "reality check" to let me know that at least in some instances what I am feeling is what anyone might feel. It sounds like this is what you're pdoc is trying to tell you. I'm sure you're not unempathetic - you just maybe don't recognize empathy for what it is.
>
> MairNo, I'm not sorry that I went, it was rather a breakthrough moment for me in therapy. I was bitter and hardened from my past and everything that's happened in my life. I didn't know what 'feeling' empathy really was until Wednesday. I don't know how to put it into words, it's something I've never experienced before in my entire life. I'm still in shock over it all.
Posted by wendy b. on November 9, 2001, at 22:24:11
In reply to Re: Cutting... Can anyone identify? Everyone.... » akc, posted by kid_A on November 9, 2001, at 9:18:19
>(Anyway, your post comes at an interesting time. Thanks for posting it -- it takes courage to admit that you self-harm.
akc)
>(Because cutting is rare, it is a rough thing for people to understand, and I think that includes doctors.akc)
Dear Everyone,
I cut and pasted AKC's remarks because, yes, it takes courage to admit you cut, but as I understand it, no it's not rare.
I also agree, the dramatic handling of cutting on ER last night was a *little* over-the-top, but Carter had an obligation to help the woman, she was clearly almost hitting bottom. And the thing I like about ER is that their writers have their ears to the ground about the issue of self-harm, and it brings the issue into the consciousness of a lot of people who never would have thought about it.
I feel for everyone who has posted here very much. I am trying to understand the reasons people cut, and how it feels when you cut. I value everyone's honesty and openness. I am in group therapy with several women who are younger than me, and they all have cut, or still do, or struggle with cutting from time to time. When we first discussed the topic of 'Stress,' and how we cope with it, everyone in the room except me said cutting was one way they dealt with stress. I went home that night horrified, I felt that I didn't have 'serious' problems like that, thinking I was maybe in the wrong group, I was only BP II, right? - Of course, it turns out it has been a very good group, it's been very mutually supportive and honest. After reading some more about cutting, (there have been some long threads on PSB in the past), and talking about it in group, I have a better understanding. The therapist says, "We talk about it as if it is a dirty little secret that we wish we could hide in a closet. Like you're the only ones doing it. It's not ONLY you, cutting is reaching near-epidemic proportions." So I thought I would add these comments...
you are all in my thoughts tonight,
Wendy
> akc,
> (While there may be some biochemical reasons behind why self-harm is so effective as a release, there is for me much more to it -- the act itself holds meaning.)
>
> yes, it does, it's like putting yourself up on the alter for sacrifice, yet you are your own punisher, the sacrificer as well as the offering... To me, like i said its a ritual of sorts... And when it's all done, when the act is complete somehow I've ripped my soul out of myself and brought it back to life... When right before i felt so inhuman, somehow i've come to terms w/ my own inate humanity...
>
> And there is control, no one is doing this to me, i am doing it... i am the author of the act, i am the one wielding the razor... i think of them more as battle scars in a war with depression, war wounds from the front... We're at war with ourselves, fighting to stay sane in whatever way we can rip that from ourselves... in anyway possible... cutting just happens to do that for me... After that incident i went up both on my AD and my AP so maybe that will straighten out my emotions... Sometimes its better to feel nothing at all, then to feel imense agony...
>
> thank you so much for your comments. sometimes knowing that there is someone else who feels and does the same as you makes it less shamefull, in some aspects more rational... as crazy as that seems.
>
> (an amnesiac healing)
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2001, at 23:50:17
In reply to Re: Cutting... is NOT rare. » kid_A, posted by wendy b. on November 9, 2001, at 22:24:11
Well, I'll admit I wasn't following the show that closely. I saw where Carter saw the old scars and then demanded to see her thighs. I think at that point I might have tried to leave myself. Then the syringe and the forced admittal. It seemed a bit excessive to me for what looked like superficial cuts in what was obviously a long time self injurer. But I probably missed the rest of the show where they gave some reason why the reaction to the old scars wasn't overly dramatic. And maybe it is a sensitive subject for me.
However, I think I'll try to remember not to try to walk away from a doctor under those circumstances, just in case.
Posted by akc on November 10, 2001, at 10:10:47
In reply to Re: Cutting... is NOT rare. » wendy b., posted by Dinah on November 9, 2001, at 23:50:17
I still have a lot of mixed feelings on how ER handled the whole issue of cutting. While I think it takes courage to bring the subject up, I don't think they handled it very well. Mosts cutters are not about to go off the deep end, and showing a cutter who is just gives the wrong impression. The woman was at her emotional end -- wanting drugs, having eating issues, passing out from not taking care of herself, becoming extremely agitated at the drop of a hat.
For me, when I cut, and from a lot of cutters I have met online, I actually become much calmer when I cut. So the picture ER drew did not mesh with those cutters I know.
However, I am glad that the issue of cutting has been brought out a little was from the closet -- I just hope they have the courage to really deal with it, and not leave it where they did. Because the fact is that most people are freaked out by the thought someone would do such a thing to themselves, and that includes doctors -- including ER doctors.
If you ever cut and you need stiches and you go to the ER and you don't want admitted -- stay calm, let them call for the pysch consult, the psych is likely to better understand (likely, not 100% the case though) -- and most of all, don't let them mistreat you. Insist on quality care. Your not crazy for cutting and you have a right to be treated with dignity.
akc
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