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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on April 4, 2001, at 19:08:21
Noa - you responded to one of my posts a couple of weeks ago and I feel that i owe you an apology for not getting back to you. Things have really been pretty awful and altho I've found this site to be a real source of support in the past, it's been hard lately to generate the energy to visit much. I miss some of the people who seem to have disappeared or who only now post occasionally, and I think in my vulnerable state I didn't want to risk posting and receiving no response. (Chris' invisibility syndrome) Also it seemed unfair to ask for support when I really had nothing I could offer in return.
What I fear about hospitals is 1) the unknown, 2) the negative reviews I read so many times on this board; 3) having too many friends, neighbors, colleagues etc find out about it; 4) worrying about how my kids would deal with it and what they'd feel and think about me; and 5) simply not seeing the point in a case where major med changes weren't being contemplated. I don't understand what a hospital is going to do that's going to make me feel any better or less suicidal when I get out.
Fortunately, this seems to be a moot issue right now. A slight meds change has alleviated the worst side effects and I've been able to less equivocally promise my therapist that I'll be there for the next session and that I'll call her if i think I'm going to hurt myself. She seems to be happy enough with that for the time being.
Thanks again
ksvt nka mair
Posted by willow on April 4, 2001, at 21:28:18
In reply to I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by mair on April 4, 2001, at 19:08:21
"... and I've been able to less equivocally promise my therapist that I'll be there for the next session and that I'll call her if i think I'm going to hurt myself. She seems to be happy enough with that for the time being."
Mair your post brought back memories for me though they are vague. I was still a teen-ager living on my own and one evening I took up my psychologists offer and called her. I can remember sitting up in the windowsill of my kitchen and the feelings I was having. I remember her bringing me to the hospital and myself making a feeble attempt of apologizing for ruining her evening. From there it got better.
There wasn't a bed on the pediatric floor so I stayed on the cardiac wing. I had a hard time getting to sleep even with a sedative so finally in the wee hours of the night a nurse rubbed my back, better than any pill. I spent the weekend talking with other patients much older than myself. I can't remember the conversations but they did help me feel better. I left Monday morning so I wouldn't miss work.
The only negative part was that they kept wanting to take blood tests. The previous time I was hospitalized I spent a week and they took so many of them that they had to keep poking places that had already been poked.
Anyway what I had realized that weekend that these feelings pass. I do still get them and it's not pleasant, but like a stubbed toe I know it'll pass and when it does it's like a stubbed toe, forgotten! Sometimes it feels really good to lean on someone!!
Best Wishes
Willow
Posted by ChrisK on April 5, 2001, at 5:39:25
In reply to I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by mair on April 4, 2001, at 19:08:21
mair,
Just a note from my experiences. I had a couple of very beneficial hospital stays. The first tiime I ended up there after a suicide attempt and didn't really know what to expect or what was expected of me. The doctors and nurses were all very supportive and they helped to get me stabilized mentally. I went to talk therapy and other group activities that tought me how to deal with my depression and anxiety on a daily basis.
On my second stay I was introduced to my current pdoc which was one of the best things to happen to me. He has worked with me to give me back a life.
If you don't feel safe with yourself then you need to get someplace that you know will be safe. Things can and do get better if you accept the help of others. It's worth a try.
I hope you start to feel better soon,
Chris
Posted by mair on April 5, 2001, at 20:37:09
In reply to Re: I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by ChrisK on April 5, 2001, at 5:39:25
>Willow and ChrisK - thanks to both of you for your responses. Under the best of circumstances I don't seek the help of others very well; when I get really depressed I become extremely disinclined to seek help. I think that's what bothered my pdoc and therapist the most.
The whole hospital issue has receded into the background, at least for now. When it was a more immediate issue, I was struck by the fact that even though I lobbied heavily against it, and tried rather desparately to figure out ways I could mask my condition well enough to get my therapist off my back about this, I still felt on some level that I really couldn't handle much and needed to stop deteriorating. I eventually started coming up with some other alternatives, like just getting away by myself for awhile. It at least made me feel like I had some options.
Chris - I'm curious as to how long your stays were. I've tried to reassure several people on this board at different times that our worst depressive feelings are temporary no matter how permanent they seem to be. I just was unable to tap into that advice this time around. I just felt so tired, that I didn't think I had it in me to fight this. I think that's why the hospital seemed pointless. If they're not going to change my meds, what can they do that's going to make me feel differently?
Thanks again.
Mair (ksvt)
Posted by mila on April 5, 2001, at 23:19:33
In reply to Re: I'm sorry-Noa and others - Willow and ChrisK, posted by mair on April 5, 2001, at 20:37:09
dear mair,
I am glad to hear that you are feeling somewhat better. that is sooo good to know. I hurt so much when I read your first post in this thread, I cried and was unable to write anything in response.
to me the major gain from the hospital stay was not the change in medication, which BTW didn't happen in my case, but a total surrender. I'd reached the bottom of my 'weakness' so to speak, and acted it out. I let others to take care of me. This was a beginnig of the real healing for me. It somehow made my depression fully real. Being in the hospital made the experience of depression fully real. no longer I was 'just' realizing that I was depressed, or telling about it to others, I fully let the depression take over me. It seems that before that I thought that depression was something that i 'had', stay in the hospital was an experience of depression 'having me', or being me. funny to say that, but it had been a truly liberating event.
thank you mair,
you are so beautiful.
mila
Posted by ChrisK on April 6, 2001, at 4:54:42
In reply to Re: I'm sorry-Noa and others - Willow and ChrisK, posted by mair on April 5, 2001, at 20:37:09
Mair,
Glad you are feeling a little better. I hope you feel safe where you are now. One of the biggest benefits of my hospital stays was the whole safety issue. Like Mila said I had to surrender to a certain extent so that others could take care of me when I was too depressed to take care of myself in a healthy way.
The first time I was in the hospital was after a suicide attempt. I had just spent 3 days in ICU after an unsuccesful OD attempt and was then transferred to a privately run psych hospital in our area. I spent 12 days there trying to get some perspective back in my life. It was a very relaxing atmosphere and I didn't feel any of the pressures of the outside world. My wife could visit any evening so I still had that contact.
My second stay came because I didn't feel safe anymore on the outside. I was very close to suicide again and went in to the hospital voluntarily. It was about a month after my first visit. That time my stay was 7 or 8 days.
People were always coming and going. my ward had 16 people and you did make friends with people who felt the same way you do. I found that most of the patients were there voluntarily. Also most were there for depression, anxiety, phobias, bi-polar or some combination of these.
Please consider it if you get to the point where you might hurt yourself. I'm still alive because I was able to get help.
I wish you well,
Chris
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 6, 2001, at 14:32:54
In reply to I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by mair on April 4, 2001, at 19:08:21
A quickie on my recent experience of hospital... It was pretty useless for me (and I had some bad care, but thats another story!!) and I'm in the UK, but It was NOT scary, it was not awful... It was relaxing, boring and interesting, all that the same time. i worried about so many people finding out.. i told a few close friends who were very supportive, my brother (not the other brother) and two colleagues. No one else has found out.
Justin case you consdier it the future, I hipe this was a help.
Nikki
Posted by Mair on April 6, 2001, at 22:14:39
In reply to I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by mair on April 4, 2001, at 19:08:21
>
>Thanks everyone for your responses. It is nice to hear some positive hospital stories, although Nikki, I've been following enough of your recent saga, to know that it must have been tough for you to find the right words to encourage me. Mila, your sentiments really hit home. I've sort of forgiven myself for getting depressed to begin with, but I've had a hard time not being very self-critical about not achieving better or longer lasting remissions. (my current therapist doesn't seem to feel that I've ever really been in remission) I've expended alot of energy trying to "fight" this off mostly on my own, and lately have felt more like just giving myself over to depression. I guess this means letting alot of people in on what I deal with and not trying to mask it or deny it. I don't know whether or not that's a good thing, or just the sentiments of someone who's incredibly tired of putting up with all of this. Thanks again. Mair
Posted by Noa on April 9, 2001, at 23:20:57
In reply to Re: I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by Mair on April 6, 2001, at 22:14:39
Hi, Mair.
Sorry back, since I haven't been here for a while and am just getting to your post now.
I think the letting down of one's guard can be a good healing aspect of hospitalization. YOu can know that you can stop pretending to the world, at least for now, and you will be in a place that will help to keep you safe, as you let that guard down--take off the mask of "everything's fine".
The second thing is that sometimes you just need a safe place until the urgency of suicidal feelings subsides a bit.
But it does sound to me like you have become rather fatigued with putting up a good front and pretending to the world that you are fine, and for that reason, maybe hospitalization could be useful.
I think experiences vary--some good, some not so. Ask your therapist about the hospital she reccomends. What kind of treatment goes on there, etc.?
I think you just must be so weary of holding that mask up to hide your true feelings.
I am glad to hear that you feel a bit better in recent days. Keep us posted.
Posted by Cecilia on April 10, 2001, at 4:18:16
In reply to Re: I'm sorry-Noa and others, posted by Noa on April 9, 2001, at 23:20:57
Are there really people who feel safe in a hospital? I`ve been depressed since childhood but never been hospitalized (except for surgery, plenty terrifying enough) but the idea of feeling safe in a psychiatric hospital seems approximately like feeling safe while skydiving into a war zone. Just the idea of sleeping behind unlocked doors with a bunch of strangers, some of whom most likely are psychotic, is scary enough, add to that staff basically having total power over you.
There was a woman at the university-affiliated psychiatric unit in my city a few years ago who was raped by a staff member while in restraints for being suicidal, I`ve often wondered how many other women he raped before being caught and if he`s out of jail now and working in some other psychiatric hospital too short staffed to check references. (And of course being in restraints even if you weren`t raped sounds terrifying). Not to mention psychological safety-having everything you say written down , having to "share" your feelings in group therapy, etc. Keeping my mask on and pretending to be normal feels a lot safer to me!
Posted by Ignatz on April 10, 2001, at 8:47:11
In reply to Re: Feeling safe in hospital, posted by Cecilia on April 10, 2001, at 4:18:16
I have been hospitalized briefly three times for depression, and I felt much safer in the hospital. My depressions have been sudden, severe, and, blessedly, short. I can't function at all when I'm depressed, don't trust myself not to hurt myself, and don't want to be a burden on my friends. The two hospitals I have been in were good. The staff were patient and the group activities didn't bother me. Most of all, it was a vast relief to feel safe, and to be around other people who seemed to understand how I was feeling. (People with depression made up the vast majority of the patients when I've been in. There's a locked ward which I hear is louder and scarier-- the ward I've been on, you could leave with a staff member or, after awhile, with another patient.) I think that anxiety is a big component of my depressions, and that anxiety has subsided when I go into the hospital. Sometimes I wonder,in fact, if I've gotten *too* dependent on hospitals (and my relatively good insurance right now).
Posted by Cecilia on April 11, 2001, at 4:17:12
In reply to Re: Feeling safe in hospital, posted by Ignatz on April 10, 2001, at 8:47:11
> I have been hospitalized briefly three times for depression, and I felt much safer in the hospital. My depressions have been sudden, severe, and, blessedly, short. I can't function at all when I'm depressed, don't trust myself not to hurt myself, and don't want to be a burden on my friends. The two hospitals I have been in were good. The staff were patient and the group activities didn't bother me. Most of all, it was a vast relief to feel safe, and to be around other people who seemed to understand how I was feeling. (People with depression made up the vast majority of the patients when I've been in. There's a locked ward which I hear is louder and scarier-- the ward I've been on, you could leave with a staff member or, after awhile, with another patient.) I think that anxiety is a big component of my depressions, and that anxiety has subsided when I go into the hospital. Sometimes I wonder,in fact, if I've gotten *too* dependent on hospitals (and my relatively good insurance right now).
I`m glad you had good experiences in the hospital. I`m sorry, I realize my post was rather non-supportive. I think I`ve been terrified of ending up in a "mental hospital" since I was a teenager because I was so excruciatingly shy I felt there was no possible way I could ever work or live on my own. Of course nowadays people who can`t support themselves usually live on the street, not in hospitals, but this was a long time ago (I`m 51). Anyway I decided that even if I could never be normal, if I could at least manage to cover up my depression and fears enough to play the role of someone who could take care of herself I could survive. By now I don`t think there`s any one left under the mask. Even when I got brave enough (at age 40) to try therapy I was basically just playing the role of someone brave enough to do therapy and after 7 years my therapist gave up on me.
Posted by judy1 on April 11, 2001, at 15:31:11
In reply to Re: Feeling safe in hospital, posted by Cecilia on April 11, 2001, at 4:17:12
As someone who has experienced some of your nightmares of psych hospitals (and more), I have been fortunate enough to find a psychiatrist who understands this fear and is supportive of keeping me out of them. That means he spent a great deal of time earning my trust, and he was very difficult to find (I went through over a dozen). When I am suicidal, I know I can call him at 3 am and he will talk to me until I feel better. I've had times where I have seen him on a daily basis. (I'm not really good with my manic episodes, but I'm working on it) The point I'm making is that even though I have experienced a great deal of trauma in my life, I still feel safe when I am with him. And if I'm really lucky maybe some of that will carry out in the real world. I hope you can find someone that allows you to lower your 'mask'- you'll know when it happens. And just because you spent 7 years with a therp- if it was the wrong one, then it doesn't matter how long you spent. Take care of yourself- judy
Posted by Snuffy on April 13, 2001, at 14:10:28
In reply to Re: Feeling safe in hospital, posted by Cecilia on April 10, 2001, at 4:18:16
> Are there really people who feel safe in a hospital? I`ve been depressed since childhood but never been hospitalized (except for surgery, plenty terrifying enough) but the idea of feeling safe in a psychiatric hospital seems approximately like feeling safe while skydiving into a war zone. Just the idea of sleeping behind unlocked doors with a bunch of strangers, some of whom most likely are psychotic, is scary enough, add to that staff basically having total power over you.
> There was a woman at the university-affiliated psychiatric unit in my city a few years ago who was raped by a staff member while in restraints for being suicidal, I`ve often wondered how many other women he raped before being caught and if he`s out of jail now and working in some other psychiatric hospital too short staffed to check references. (And of course being in restraints even if you weren`t raped sounds terrifying). Not to mention psychological safety-having everything you say written down , having to "share" your feelings in group therapy, etc. Keeping my mask on and pretending to be normal feels a lot safer to me!Wow can I identify with what you are saying. My greatest fear is having people see the real me. If I lower my mask I will hurt the people I love. I suffer from low self esteem anyway and if people *found out*, I couldn't bare to be with myself. I am taking meds and am able to control my depression, anxiety and paranoia somewhat but I couldn't stand the extra burden of people knowing the real me.
Posted by Noa on April 14, 2001, at 12:41:51
In reply to Re: Feeling safe in hospital » Cecilia, posted by Snuffy on April 13, 2001, at 14:10:28
I am finding that pulling open the curtains, taking off the mask, shining the light of day on the secret suffering, is essential to recovering. I think it is an awful burden to say "I'll never go into a hospital", because when someone is on the verge of ending their life, that conviction ---to not go into a hospital, to not share one's suffering with others, to keep it all hidden under the mask---just adds to the feeling of having no options!
Posted by Cecilia on April 16, 2001, at 4:19:09
In reply to Re: the mask, posted by Noa on April 14, 2001, at 12:41:51
I tried my best for 7 years to let my therapist under the mask, though I had constant fear that when she discovered the real me she would abandon me, and sure enough (classic self-fulfiilling prophecy) she did. As for the rest of the world, I`m like you, Snuffy, my biggest fear is poeple discovering the real me, but it`s not about hurting the people I love, frankly I don`t have anyone in that category, it`s just about fear of being seen, of humiliation. Last summer my pdoc told me he had no more suggestions for meds, the only suggestion he had left was ECT and the fear of this (i.e. the fear of people at work finding out about it) plunged me into overwhelming terror and despair. The suggestion of ECT increased my depression to the point where I actually considered having it and the more I considered having it the more terrified and depressed I got. It wasn`t so much a clear-cut decision NOT to have it as much as deciding by default that I would never be brave enough, and once I realized that, that I didn`t have to risk having the mask yanked off. my overwhelming terror and panic subsided to just my usual chronic depression.
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