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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Annierose on January 6, 2009, at 18:13:28
Well the New Year has thrown a few changes in my therapy routine. I've been seeing my t for 5 years, pretty much 3x per week over the past four. First change: my therapist suggested that I begin sitting up during my sessions. She would bring it up now and again - I understood that she thought it would be helpful to me even though originally it was her idea that I lay down. She felt I needed more eye contact since I easily misconstrued her sentences/thoughts. So right before the holidays, I sat on the couch. I know it sounds simple since most people on the board sit rather than lie down, but it has been excruciatingly painful. She has been supportive and wants me to give this a go before I give up. I find myself sitting the furthest point away from her facing a bookcase and more often, looking at my thighs. I hate it. I feel disconnected from her. It's as if I've just begun therapy and it's my first week or two. But worse. (Yes, she knows this)
Around the same time - mid December 2008 - I started thinking about cutting back to twice a week (this is before I sat up). I wasn't sure what I was feeling. I really hate my standing appointment on Tuesdays. The time sucks, and I follow a woman who smokes (she doesn't smoke in the office but she leaves a trail of cigarette stench). Over the years, my therapist has asked if I could change a standing appointment here or there - and it prickles sometimes but I have always taken the new time slot. Since January 2008, I have asked if I could have another time slot on Tuesdays. My t will look at her calendar and tell me that she is booked but will let me know if something opens up. I reminded her occasionally to no avail.
Right before the New Year break, I told her that I would no longer come on Tuesdays. I have always hated the time slot and since nothing became available during an entire year, I could no longer wait. She looked again at her calendar and noted that nothing is available and added, "I can't push someone out of their standing appointment." I replied, "No, but you have asked me to move a few times for others in the past." And then we moved on - and I could tell by her body language, she didn't take me seriously.
During the six day break, I tried to figure out what I wanted and why. My income will be cut in half with the economy - so that was a reason to cut back. I still don't know if that is my main concern or not, but it sits there shouting "don't spend any more money". I hate the mid-morning time slot - that's a given. I hate seeing, smelling the previous client - check. I hate that I now sit rather than lie down - check. She told me I could go back but at this point, that doesn't feel comfortable either.
Yesterday, Monday, as time was running out, I realized I needed to clarify if I was going to be there tomorrow or not. Initially (in December) I did tell her "beginning the second week in January ...." but what if I showed up and someone else was there? So I reminded her, "I will be here for my Tuesday appointment tomorrow. Beginning next week, I will not be here." T, "So you're serious?" Me, "yes, I hate my Tuesday appointments." T, "Is sitting up that uncomfortable for you?" Me, "I hate the time of day of my appointment."
Today (Tuesday) I'm sitting in the waiting room - excited. This will be the last time I will have to smell the smoky office or worry about running into smoking client in parking lot or hallway. My t's waiting room is fairly sound proof but I can hear smoking client raise her voice a bit today. I'm thinking to myself, "I am so glad to be done with this." That client leaves and t comes to get me. I sit down, and immediately my therapist tells me that "I've recruited (smoking) client to switch appointment times with you, will that work?" I'm crushed. I tell her I'm conflicted. I really wish she did not do that because I don't want to be there ... especially switching time slots with smoker lady --- it barely helps my time restraints --- an additional 45 minutes of my life back -- whoop-de-do! Inside, I cry. I do not want this appointment and now I feel obligated.
However ... there is a small part of me that was worried ... what will happen when I go down to twice a week. But I wanted to try.
Mostly I'm confused about the entire process. All this drama, all this worry, all these intense emotions ... over what? A couch, a time slot, Later in today's session, I told my t that I think I am done with therapy. I'm never going to be that client that floats into her office and freely pours out her heart. She asked me to imagine what that would feel that ... could I at least imagine how I want our relationship to be?
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2009, at 20:03:03
In reply to New Year, New Rules, posted by Annierose on January 6, 2009, at 18:13:28
> She asked me to imagine what that would feel that ... could I at least imagine how I want our relationship to be?
I know it can be scary to even imagine such things.
But if you were able to drop any worries about being disappointed, or being unrealistic, or asking too much, *can* you imagine how you want your relationship to be?
Posted by DAisym on January 7, 2009, at 1:12:54
In reply to Re: New Year, New Rules, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2009, at 20:03:03
I don't think that is a fair question, actually.
When we, as the client, wander out with our fantasies, usually our therapists employ some reality testing. But they still want us to say what we want and wish for..."I wish I knew if you missed me, I wish I knew what you REALLY thought of me, I wish I could read your mind, I wish I could hug you, I wish..." What happens if we do say it - do we get it? Does saying it out loud make us not want it anymore? I think we already know that they will accept what we say, commiserate about how hard the boundaries are, and let us know that it is OK to wish for stuff even if we don't ever get it. But sometimes I think we all get stuck - we don't really know what it is that is keeping us from talking.
And, if you could just say what is deep in your heart and come and go easily from therapy, would you likely need therapy? (Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt as I'm struggling with all these things myself.)
I sometimes think if we could talk about the issues in our life, instead of the therapy relationship, we could get close again. But it is awfully hard to talk about the issues when you don't feel close. Sort of a which comes first, chicken or egg? When I get really stuck, I bring in some of my written stuff.
I think the Tuesday issue is huge. It is an opportunity for you to practice a skill you both have been working on - doing what you need to for you, not for others. Even if someone is willing to switch, if it isn't the right time, then it is OK to turn it down. Why switch from one horrible slot to another? If you find that 2x isn't enough, you can go back up. It sounds like fear is keeping you from doing this - are you afraid you won't be her favorite if you don't see her as much? And if this is true, how is this connected to the issues you are working on. Sometimes a switch like this is enough to really get things moving in therapy again. You are so accommodating that often your needs aren't taken seriously. Did your therapist think you were just threatening to cut back but not really meaning it? And why would she think you'd throw that out there if you didn't mean it? Can she explain to you how you have been communicating this need for over a year, but in such a way that she felt free to ignore it? It will probably be a difficult conversation but I think a helpful one.
I can see why you feel done with therapy. I think often when we are pretty capable in many parts of our lives, sometimes therapy seems to just keep open a painful wound. But even as I struggle, I think that if we don't heal the wound, it will open up again at some later point in life. And maybe that's OK. But would you really want to start again?
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2009, at 10:23:50
In reply to Re: New Year, New Rules, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2009, at 20:03:03
I think Daisy is absolutely right about the timeslot. And even if money wasn't a major factor, therapy is supposed to be a place where we can put our own needs first and not try to please others. (Though I certainly engage in therapist-pleasing behaviors at times.) Maybe she was trying to address the hurt part of what you said. That you had been asked to change your time slot to suit others (and had complied, again putting her needs ahead of your own), but that she didn't ask the same of others for you. She must have a lot of long term clients, also, if she wasn't able to get a free spot at a more congenial time in a year. Even so, she should have talked to you before asking someone else to switch their times. I don't think you're at all obligated.
As for fantasies... Well, I think being totally honest with ourselves (if not with them) about what we want is the first step to either achieving the goal or aiming for acceptance. Some of what you were talking about involved you rather than her. Visualizing in *detail* what you would like different helps break down the specifics of what needs to be done. Or in my case anyway, sometimes I realize that I don't really want that at all. I may want the ideal of it, or I may think I should want it, but in reality I don't want it at all. Which is sort of freeing.
I'm ok now with sharing those things with my therapist, but I think there was a time when I wasn't. He's gotten more transparent with me I think. Or maybe he was always more transparent, and I just didn't give him much of a chance to show me. So that sort of revelation often brings some realizations about what it feels like on his side of the room, or about his beliefs in general, or about his thoughts about me in specific. Or sometimes we just explore the fantasy together, which isn't as enlightening, but often makes me smile.
On the other hand, I spent all of a recent session talking about the various things I wanted to change. But when he told me to write them down, I hated it. Turning it into an assignment put up all my resistance where talking about it didn't. Maybe this is a bit like that?
Posted by lucie lu on January 7, 2009, at 11:11:06
In reply to New Year, New Rules, posted by Annierose on January 6, 2009, at 18:13:28
Annie,I wish I had more time to respond to your post. But I just wanted to add that instead of a Tuesday slot issue, I had a Friday slot issue. We met Tues-Fri for a long time but gradually, for various reasons within me, I began to dread Friday sessions and would actually fall apart after many of them. We struggled to make sense of it and to use it. Finally, I just said I don't want to come on Fridays anymore, period. He said OK and after no small amount of fiddling, came up with a Mon, Thurs schedule. In some respects, it does not work as well (not the same times on both days so I get confused some times), but at least we don't meet on the dreaded Fridays. What meant the most to me was (1) being able to just say no, I am no longer willing to meet then, and (2) that he took my wishes seriously enough to change our mutual schedule. He knew how I felt and never questioned when I said I'd had enough. Sounds like maybe that's what was missing in your equation.
Take care,
Lucie
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2009, at 12:49:41
In reply to Re: New Year, New Rules » Annierose, posted by lucie lu on January 7, 2009, at 11:11:06
I just wanted to add that when seeing therapists I always tried to please them . Hence I feel you guys are very strong and kudos for pleasing yourselves. Something I guess I should have tried. Oh no they would assign me something and little me worried that I wouldn't please them. Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on January 7, 2009, at 17:46:32
In reply to New Year, New Rules, posted by Annierose on January 6, 2009, at 18:13:28
Annierose,
Like Lucie, I had a dreaded session, mine was thursday. I hated the time. I hated the day, I hated the session. I never wanted to talk. I thought too I was done with therapy. I tried three times to quit. I made all kinds of reasons, excuses, and tried to bolt. Well, it is good I didn't because we are finally making progress. I can now say things I couldn't say like you. I, at the time of my dreaded thursdays, felt trapped. Now I will blurt things out and we talk. And we joke about how I have nothing to say, yet I talk non-stop the whole time. I am slowly opening up.
My t says it is because of feelings like I will open up I wanted to quit. I think he had something there. He says I will try again to bolt. And maybe several more times. The closer we get to my more deeper buried feelings the more I will try to bolt. His words.
I think how you are feeling is quite ok. So do what you need to for you. You will feel a little unsettled but hey, that is what therapy is all about. And part of it is, I think, that we are not used to doing what is best for us we are more used to thinking about others above ourselves so it feels weird at first. After a time, it feels good.
take care, let us know how it goes.
rsk
Posted by Annierose on January 7, 2009, at 20:45:02
In reply to Re: New Year, New Rules, posted by DAisym on January 7, 2009, at 1:12:54
Everyone has give me so much to ponder ... really! ... that I wonder why I give this issue so much space in my brain. HELP!
I agree with Dinah that the exercise in imagining what I would want "my" therapy relationship to feel like seems like a valid exercise. As an entrepreneur, I had to visualize in detail my store way before the dream became a reality ... i.e. without the vision I don't think I could have sold my bank and vendors that they could trust in my dream. My therapist believes, I'm guessing, that I need to know what I want to move towards in order for change to take place. Or at least some ideas of what that might feel like, or what she could say or do to help that process. Intellectually I understand. However, it's hard for me to put those vulnerable feelings out there - only to know, as Daisy said, that she can't ultimately fulfill those wishes.
The Tuesday issue is fairly muddy. Daisy hit the nail on the head regarding the real hurt - that I had been communicating the "wish" to change my time slot for over a year (mind you - not in a pushy way - maybe I mentioned it 3 or 4 times throughout the year) and she choose to ignore it. I don't think I communicated to her how much I wanted to change the time other than asking, "Do you have another time available on Tuesdays?" I became much more clear and firm before the New Year's break. Which brings me to Monday. After I clarified that I will not be coming on Tuesdays beginning the following week, she asked me, "How much earlier would you like to come?" At this point, I didn't want to make a change at all, I just didn't want to come. But it felt awkward to say that - plus there is this nagging voice "What happens if you do want your third appointment time back and nothing is available?" So I answered, "Any appointment time earlier is better." So I believe my answer gave her the green light to go ahead and ask smoker client to change with me. UGH.
Daisy - I don't think I'm her favorite client - at all. In fact, lately, I think she dreads my appointments, "Oh no, here comes Annierose; she'll sit there and not say anything." There's barely a connection between us these days.
Interesting to me, no one had any thoughts regarding the move from lying to sitting. I think there is a TON of hurt in the move. When I would lay down, I felt held by her, like she was with me in every movement and spoken word. Over on the couch (a different couch in her office) where I sit, I feel tossed aside and alone and not special.
I agree with everyone's support of me to continue the process. I'm not walking away from her ---- yet. My therapist told me yesterday, "I feel like you have finally taken the blanket off and now we can see your wounds." WHATEVER.
THANKS to each and every person who replied. It meant a great deal to me. And I have read and re-read everyone's post at least 2 or 3 times. Thanks Dinah, Daisy, Lucie Lu, Phillipa and Rskontos!!
Posted by lucie lu on January 8, 2009, at 20:41:13
In reply to Re: Well ...., posted by Annierose on January 7, 2009, at 20:45:02
Annierose,
I'm glad you feel the discussion was helpful to you. I think the reason no one mentioned anything about the lying down vs sitting is that's it's an experience that is not easy to relate to unless you've done it. I've been in intensive therapy for umpteen years but never lying down, and I have a hard time even imagining what my current therapy would be like that way. But clearly, there is A LOT going on between you and your T around these issues. Maybe that is the major story here, i.e. what is transpiring in the bigger picture in your mutual relationship with her? We can learn so much from times like these, particularly as we begin to understand more about the particular battles we engage in with our Ts. It seems like you are delving into the issues productively; it will be interesting to see what comes up as she responds to the needs you are voicing.
Take care,
Lucie
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