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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2008, at 11:33:12
In reply to no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 11:10:23
I should add that I think it's great that you were able to be honest with him.
Early in therapy, both my mother and husband met him. With my mother it was purely accidental. And both considered my therapist attractive, and made a few remarks that that was why I stayed in therapy for so long. It wasn't true, not to me. My idea of attractive is way different. Other than the fact that my therapist is very tall and very large, which makes me feel safe and probably contributes to whatever my transference might be, I've always felt safe that his looks weren't the sort that appealed to me. I'd be scared to be in therapy with, say, Dr. Drew.
When my husband met again with my therapist a couple of years ago, he mentioned that he was surprised that he had remembered my therapist as being more handsome than he actually was. I guess part of it was his own fears and insecurities.
But I never ever told my therapist that. I mean, if he happened to ask, I'd tell him what my mother and husband said. But I don't think I'd volunteer it.
I think that was brave of you.
Posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 12:01:42
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » sunnydays, posted by Poet on March 22, 2008, at 11:18:09
It has to do with the fact that she's very mentally ill and was abused by a therapist she had when she was about my age. It's total projection from her, but she's unstable enough that she might act on it.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 12:08:48
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » sunnydays, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2008, at 11:21:06
> That s*cks.
>
> I'd be furious that he listened to your mother's paranoia and changed because of it. You're not a minor. It's none of your mother's business really.**** No, but he said he highly doubts anything would happen, but that he needs to be able to protect himself if anything were to happen. She is unstable enough that she could take a notion to report it to some licensing board or other. I understand why he needs to, I just hate it. I feel like he doesn't trust me anymore. I know that it's that he doesn't trust my mom's actions, but it hurts.
>
> And you were honest with him, and this is the result. What an inducement to be honest with him. :(**** Well, that part I don't mind I don't think. I'm glad I was honest. If he really feels he needs to, then I would want him to do that.
>
> I understand his concerns, having had this happen before. But he was cleared last time, I assume. And accepting a certain amount of risk is part of his career choice.**** He was cleared last time - I'm not sure it even went to any big thing other than his supervisor. He is accepting a risk and says it's the only thing that's going to change, it's just in case, just to protect himself. And it's only voice recording at least, not video. I think I'd totally freak if it were video.
>
> Maybe I'm being overly negative because of my very strong feelings about having my sessions recorded in any way. I don't even like his making notes of more than a few words. I would hate being recorded. I say some pretty idiotic things in therapy, because I know I'm free to say idiotic things in therapy. I wouldn't feel free to do that if I were being taped.*** That's why I couldn't talk at first. And I hate the idea that someone else might possibly hear what I say too. But he said even if something were to happen, my mom would never hear the tapes, it would only be a judge that would hear them, at the school's lawyer I'm at would work really hard for the tapes to not even be let in at all.
>
> So maybe I'm projecting that part on you, and you don't feel nearly as bad about it. I know lots of clients agree to being taped and don't mind it at all.**** I hate it a lot. I know he still cares about me, and when I looked up after I'd probably been just sobbing for 10 minutes straight, he looked very sad and had tears in his eyes. I know he hates to see it hurt me. But there also is a lot of it that has to do with my feelings toward my mom this is bringing up. It just hurts.
>
> I'm so sorry, Sunny, that his fears have led your therapy to change.
**** Me too. I don't know if calling him is ok anymore. I assume it is since he didn't say otherwise, but wouldn't he want to tape that too? I don't know. He said it's just a simple, one-step thing, just taping, but it feels like a ginormous thing that changes everything. I also assume he has discussed it with his supervisor and they both agree, so I trust that he has dealt with his own issues around it.sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2008, at 13:00:13
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » Dinah, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 12:08:48
I can see why he may be doing it but I would not like my sessions on tape so sorry sunnydays. Phillipa
Posted by LadyBug on March 22, 2008, at 14:43:53
In reply to no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 11:10:23
I'm sorry sunnydays that this is what has happened to you. I don't think I could open up as usual if I knew my sessions were being taped. I'm pretty sure it would change the dynamics of our relationship and work. This isn't what you needed ;o(
Maybe it will be temporary.
((((sunnydays))))
LadyBug
Posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 15:04:16
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » sunnydays, posted by LadyBug on March 22, 2008, at 14:43:53
I don't think it will be temporary, unfortunately. He said something like, "From now on I'm going to tape the sessions..." so I think it's forever, or at least for the next indefinite period until I am much more independent from my parents. I am just so sad and hurting. I keep trying to do homework and I just start crying again.
sunnydays
Posted by muffled on March 22, 2008, at 20:07:15
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » LadyBug, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 15:04:16
SD, can you frame it in terms of that its a thing ypou are allowing in order to help your T?
That it is a GOOD thing?
I think you will get used to it quickly.
And it will be OK.
Its GOOD that T is taping, cuz then he can be relaxed cuz he knows heis covered.
So its for the best.
Take care,
M
Posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 20:58:54
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » sunnydays, posted by muffled on March 22, 2008, at 20:07:15
Sorry, I can't. It's a bad thing because I did something wrong and that's the only reason I know that about my mom and so my T has to punish me because I am bad. He's just lying to me so I won't know that that's really what it is, but I know. As you can see, I am not in a good frame of mind. I called him, but he probably won't call back tonight.
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2008, at 21:05:07
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » muffled, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 20:58:54
You didn't do anything wrong. Your mother may have things in her history that caused her to jump to conclusions, but that isn't your fault.
And honestly, the fact that your therapist felt he needed to react in this way is not your fault either. Not all therapists would react in this way.
I don't see anything you've said that would lead anyone to think you've done anything wrong.
Posted by Daisym on March 22, 2008, at 23:21:51
In reply to no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 11:10:23
Sunny,
I'm really sorry about all of this. I can't imagine having my safe place taken away like that. I'm sure it makes you wish your mom didn't even know you were in therapy. Is it possible to get her to think you've stopped going? I rarely think lying is the best answer but perhaps in this case?Once my x-husband lost it completely with me over therapy. He said my therapist was changing me and threatened to give him a piece of his mind. When I said, "he'll never talk to you" my x's reply was that he would call and make an appointment under a false name. Scared me to death - but when I told my therapist he said he'd dealt with angry husbands before and not to worry. I felt invaded though and it took a long time to rebuild the safety.
Just go slow - and try to find ways to feel safe. Your therapist is good and will be there for you.
Posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 23:45:59
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing, posted by Daisym on March 22, 2008, at 23:21:51
Maybe once I'm financially independent, but right now she pays for my therapy so I can't make her think I stopped going.
He is good, and I know he cares, it just feels like I'm being punished for what my mom is like. I don't think he quite understood from the tiny bit I was able to say today that I don't feel safe there anymore.
It just feels like I am in big trouble. I've been crying like all day. I just sent him an email begging him to just pretend I didn't say anything. He won't get it until Monday, though. The thing is, I know he cares, but it's so hard to hold onto that.
sunnydays
Posted by estrellita on March 23, 2008, at 2:03:13
In reply to no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 11:10:23
> So my T is taping my sessions now. :( :( :( Because I had found out that my mom thinks he's sexually abusing me (he's absolutely not). He says it doesn't affect anything, it's just in case he needs to be able to defend himself. But it was devastating to hear that. I cried the entire session and could barely talk. He said he still likes me, that I didn't do anything wrong, that he's grateful to me for telling him, that he still wants to work with me. But it was just awful. And I feel like I've ruined everything and now he hates me. And he said he got accused once in the past because he hugged someone and they were fine with it that day but the next day they made a whole bunch of accusation, and that's why he doesn't hug me or anyone. And that that's hard for him because that's kind of how he is, but that that's what's hard about being a male therapist when most people that come in are females.
>
> I'm just devastated. I don't know why. It just hurts so bad.
>
> sunnydays
I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're going through that. I said in another thread that all my sessions are videotaped, and it really stresses me out. It makes me be a lot less open than I would otherwise be. I asked last session if they were still being taped, because I wasn't even sure. He said they still are, it's clinic policy, though he and his supervisor don't go over them every week anymore.Maybe it will help if you think about how there's almost no chance anyone is ever going to hear your recordings?
I don't quite understand the whole situation going on with your sessions, but I can understand some of the distress you feel about it.
I really hate how it changes the way I interact with him in therapy, and how it adds in this whole liability angle that seems to put the primary focus on that instead of on what is best for me.
I have the whole issue with wanting to be his friend after the therapy is over, and all my feelings around still being attracted to him. But the fact that everything is videotaped means I don't bring it up. I think I would if things weren't being recorded, but it's just too stressful to know somebody could watch what I said, and how I said it, and then comment on it and talk about it and me not even knowing about it.
It feels like I'm being objectified, and categorized as a crazy person whose interactions have to be recorded for the safety of the therapist/clinic. I know that's not it at all. Just how it feels.
Anyway, I hope things get better for you.
*estrellita
Posted by rskontos on March 23, 2008, at 18:19:10
In reply to no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 22, 2008, at 11:10:23
Sunnydays,
I just wanted to add my sincerely thoughts that I am so sorry you are feeling so bad. It is a tough situation for you. I, too, would feel so restrained and unable to open up. I, would also, feel like I had done something wrong. But SD, you did not.
It is your mother, who is projecting, that has done the harm here. And she is the one that has the changed things only if you let it. Try for your sake to proceed if you can as if nothing has changed. Try to imagine you are in a play of your life or in a dream and only you and your t will be the audience. This might not work. But maybe with some time and distance you will be able to return to some semblence of a therapuetic relationship. I hope so for your sake.
It is a tough situation. Try to dry your eyes, and go take a walk or if that is not possible go to Camp Comfort. You need some respite.
I hate all this for you. Just when you were making some progress too.
take care sweetie.
rsk
Posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 19:46:31
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing » sunnydays, posted by rskontos on March 23, 2008, at 18:19:10
Thank you everyone. I haven't cried yet today. I say yet because night is the hardest time for me. T hasn't called me back even though I called him last night. It's not totally unexpected because he does quite often forget to check his messages when he is at home and it is a holiday so he might not want to call me back anyway, but it hurts. I'm sure I'll hear from him at least by email if not by phone tomorrow. I just hurt so much. I'm sure we will work through this, but it might take a while. Thank you for the support. I soooo need it right now, I feel like I am barely hanging on to calmness.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 22:04:24
In reply to Re: no hugs, no nothing, posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 19:46:31
He called me back tonight and we only talked for a couple minutes but it was just good to hear his voice and the caring in it and that it really is not as huge as I have made it in my mind. He asked if I would have rather that he just did it and hadn't told me, and I said no. He said before that that he had told me because he knows I like to have things out in the open and know things. And he reassured me that I'm not in trouble. And he said, "I just don't know what to tell you sunnydays. We were just talking about what happened, and I just, I felt, I decided [it's kind of nice when I hear him stumble over his words trying to choose the right ones so I'll feel ok] to do this. But you're not in trouble at all." And I said, "So, everything's the same?" And he said, "Yes, as far as I know. What would be different?" And I just said, "Everything" because it was too big a question for a phone call. But he said everything was the same and we would talk on Tuesday and that I'm not in trouble at all and that I'm having an old reaction.
It was just so reassuring to hear his voice.
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2008, at 22:08:45
In reply to talked to T, posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 22:04:24
I'm glad you're feeling better about it. :)
How nice of him to call you on Easter!
Posted by muffled on March 23, 2008, at 23:18:59
In reply to talked to T, posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 22:04:24
WOW SD, you got an amazing T for him to phone on holiday!
My T, I could be half dead in hosp, but have no way of contacting her cuz she turns her cell off on hols.
I understand on an adult level that she is just taking care of herself, but part of me definately feels kinda pissed cuz it feel like she not 'there for me', like she SAID she was.
But of course, she IS there for me, as much as any human being can be anyways.
But she no good to me if she all messed up in her own life.
So I glad she take care of herself cuz 1. I want her to be OK just cuz I care bout her. 2. I want her to be Ok so she can continue be my T!!!
But its weird all right.
Glad your T called you back.
I still think its a good thing to tape. I wanted my T to tape but SHE didn't want to.
This world you GOTO take care of yourself.
Your T is smart, he just covering his *ss, cuz thats the way this world works unfortunately. He is being smart to take care of himself.NOT cuz he don't trust you, but cuz then if anyone gives him a hassle, then it will be immediatly clear that there was no wrongdoing and you can continue T w/him. If there were allegations, then you would proly have to stop seeing him for a time COMPLETELY until it was settled, but with tapes, this should not be an issue. So really, the taping ALSO directly protects YOU from being hurt as well.
So all round its a good thing. Sucks that its neccessary, but overall its for the best for BOTH of you.
Take care, hope you can chill some.
M
Posted by seldomseen on March 24, 2008, at 6:00:32
In reply to talked to T, posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 22:04:24
you DO have a great T. Mine is great, but there is no way he would have called me on a holiday. Also, good for you for calling him. I'm glad he helped to reassure you.
Personally, I think you absolutely did the right thing in telling him about your mom's accusations.
I must admit, I think I would be a little freaked out if my T started recording our sessions as well. However, as an outsider looking into your situation, I can see the merit of his decision.
It protects him, but I also think it helps you as well by protecting your therapy from your mom.
As a seasoned veteran of the crazy mom wars, the more layers of protection, the more documentation, the more you put between therapy and her, the better.
Besides, I've often thought after a really good session, that it would be nice to have a recording of it to carry with me - just so I could have what my T said with me whenever I wanted it. Maybe you could bring that up with your T?
I'm glad you feel some better.
Seldom.
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2008, at 18:08:16
In reply to Re: talked to T » sunnydays, posted by seldomseen on March 24, 2008, at 6:00:32
Seldom you think the T would give sunnydays a recording as whenever I see a doc I forget a lot of what was said and it would help to remember if I could hear it. Like taping a class at school. Glad he called too as it's also vacation for a lot as well. Love Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on March 25, 2008, at 9:37:46
In reply to talked to T, posted by sunnydays on March 23, 2008, at 21:04:24
I'm glad you feel better. How terrible! I'd feel invaded, too. It's huge. It sounds like you have a solid relationship and you can work through it, though. Take care of yourself :(
Posted by sunnydays on March 25, 2008, at 14:10:58
In reply to Re: talked to T » sunnydays, posted by raisinb on March 25, 2008, at 9:37:46
*sigh* It was so good today. He cares, he understands, it's really not a big deal at all for him, and it's no longer such a big deal for me. We talked a little about him not hugging me and he said he thinks there is value in me learning to believe myself that he cares without hugging, and that he does think that he is always holding me (in his mind). It was just a good session.
sunnydays
Posted by 10derHeart on March 25, 2008, at 19:00:51
In reply to it was good :), posted by sunnydays on March 25, 2008, at 14:10:58
That's so wonderful, sunny. I've been following (always...hope that's not creepy...lol) but unable to post.....my stuff...
I see this kind of pattern in your postings....or at least I think I do unless I am 100% projecting. but it's really an encouraging one I am oh-so-familiar-with in my therapeutic relationship, too. A thing (could be almost anything - *but* this one that just got thrown at you WAS big!) happens, then come the doubts and fears, and needing things shown again and again, and said in different ways, testing, wondering, crying, missing, being sad, and being *sure* (yeah, right) we are wrong, bad, doing this whole thing incorrectly, maybe they never even really liked us and we just s**k! And then....bam! our T's once again pour out all their caring, kindness and honesty on us, and for the umpteenth time show they ARE real, they WILL be there, there IS love in that room....! It's encouraging because you keep hanging in there, and even if the baby steps seem so small, your T. is teaching you to trust and relax, even if they seem like minuscule bits of movement sometimes, with someone safe and worthy of that reaction from you.
Every time the pattern repeats, I picture your past and your deep hurts that brought you to therapy as a foundation of sinking sand, unstable and not strong enough to hold up anyone safely throughout life - as least not without lots of fear of falling, collapsing, not trusting yourself, etc. But now, the very foundation gets rebuilt - changed day by day, the sand disappearing and being replaced by bricks, or even better ('cause I love wood) beautiful, healthy, *growing* wood - like in the giant Sequoias, maybe - that can bend and support and withstand anything.
That was disjointed, but my brain kinda works that way and I trust you will get what I'm saying. [I am the Queen of the run-on sentence!]
Your T. is a gem, for sure, and your post made me smile and smile...must have been one of your more memorable sessions.
Posted by sunnydays on March 25, 2008, at 20:05:53
In reply to Re: it was good :) » sunnydays, posted by 10derHeart on March 25, 2008, at 19:00:51
That was absolutely beautiful 10derHeart. It may be the post that makes me talk about Babble with my T because it struck at the core of the issue for me and it was just so beautifully written I want to share it with him. We'll see though... Babble's kind of my private place, but I might bring it up.
Actually, it probably wasn't one of my more memorable sessions. It was just really relaxed (except the talking about the hugging) and I could just feel the warmth radiating from him. But nothing huge giant big happened, so we'll see. If anything, it was the moment he said, "You know I care about you, right sunnydays?" that will stick in my head.
Thank you for posting that though, it really was breathtaking.
sunnydays
Posted by seldomseen on March 26, 2008, at 7:32:41
In reply to Re: it was good :) » sunnydays, posted by 10derHeart on March 25, 2008, at 20:00:51
that's a lot how my therapy went too. Two steps forward, 1.995 steps back.
Security came in baby baby steps.
Right now, after 7 years, I have a mostly solid trusting relationship with my T. He knows me very well and hasn't run out of the room screaming yet. You have no idea how much that means to me.
It takes a lot of guts to step up and even try to trust them, and a huge amount of willingness to absorb hurt, self-doubt and all the other dragons that come along with being vulnerable.
It was like riding a comet, the ride was that wild.
It's so strange but for me it seems that my past had simply obliterated my ability to trust, accept love, or internalize kindness. It had not, however, destroyed my desire for them.
Like most things, it took a tremendous amount of work on my part (and my therapist) to help me to rebuild the ability to realize my desire.
I'm a poster child that therapy can work and that a constant (well, as constant as a human can provide), positive presence can heal even the deepest of wounds.
My only advice is to talk talk talk talk talk. Set nothing as out of bounds. Grab the comet and hang on.
It's worth it.
Seldom.
Posted by raisinb on March 26, 2008, at 10:37:13
In reply to Re: it was good :) sunnydays too! » 10derHeart, posted by seldomseen on March 26, 2008, at 7:32:41
Those were beautiful posts--maybe I'm just a little overemotional this morning--but they both brought tears to my eyes (happy ones, though :)). Thanks!
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