![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 20:28:00
Thank you.
This questions could be TRIGGER if you not like to think about when you kid, so not to read this if so, cuz it might make you sad to think of being a kid if so.My next question is, I dunno how to explain, but how does it feel for a person who is NOT split, like how, ohhhhh, so when you think of yourself, and remember something from being a kid, does it seem like *you* were that kid? Do you feel like that kid is you? Does in the memory, the kid, and her body, is it like your own body as a kid? Is it all connected somehow? Or not?
So like when you remember, I used to climb trees, does it all feel like yourownself? Can YOU remember climbing trees?
I'm not sure I am describing this well.
Mebbe someone will figger it, or not.
Thanks,
Muffled
Posted by llurpsienoodle on November 29, 2007, at 20:40:37
In reply to Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 20:28:00
> Thank you.
> This questions could be TRIGGER if you not like to think about when you kid, so not to read this if so, cuz it might make you sad to think of being a kid if so.
>
> My next question is, I dunno how to explain, but how does it feel for a person who is NOT split, like how, ohhhhh, so when you think of yourself, and remember something from being a kid, does it seem like *you* were that kid? Do you feel like that kid is you?I've always used different aspects of my character in different situations. I was the kid who used to make her nose bloody to get out of first grade, and the kid who played a solo on the violin with an orchestra when I was 7. I was very functional when it came to dealing with teachers. I was very dysfunctional when it came to dealing with kids my own age. I went through some periods I don't remember well at all. I remember always being chunky but not all my pictures bear that out.
>Does in the memory, the kid, and her body, is it like your own body as a kid? Is it all connected somehow? Or not?
> So like when you remember, I used to climb trees, does it all feel like yourownself? Can YOU remember climbing trees?I can see the same hands I've always had and can feel the magnolia bark; it's smooth with hard scabs on it. my fingers are the same fingers, because I look at them a lot. They haven't changed that much. the ones on the left hand are more flexible and longer. the right hand ones are thicker and stronger.
There is a change of dimension though. I used to play a little bitty violin, and it fit me just right, now I play a regular violin and it still feels the right size, but when I go back to the little one my hands are ginormous.
> I'm not sure I am describing this well.
> Mebbe someone will figger it, or not.
> Thanks,
> Muffled
>you'll have to ask some expert, I guess. My childhood is likely to have some degree of fragmentation. t tells me that I behave like someone who was loved as a child. hmmph.
ll
Posted by rskontos on November 29, 2007, at 20:57:29
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by llurpsienoodle on November 29, 2007, at 20:40:37
Muffled I know what you are asking because I have been asking people I think aren't split how they remember things too. To try and validate how we don't remember them right?
When you dissaociate it takes all the memory the good and the bad so you cant remember the tree or climbing or if you liked it. Because you might have been climbing to escape the bad guys...:(
Is it because Muffy you want to know how others with intact memories remember stuff?
rk
PS This would be helpful to me too. Good question Muffled.
Posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 21:50:48
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by llurpsienoodle on November 29, 2007, at 20:40:37
>I've always used different aspects of my character in different situations. I was the kid who used to make her nose bloody to get out of first grade, and the kid who played a solo on the violin with an orchestra when I was 7. I was very functional when it came to dealing with teachers. I was very dysfunctional when it came to dealing with kids my own age. I went through some periods I don't remember well at all. I remember always being chunky but not all my pictures bear that out.
*mebbe I've said this B4 LL, but I have a very gifted very high in the percentiles relative.
You might think being 'smart' is a good thing.....well, when a kid is extreemly gifted it is actaually handicapped. Their minds work differently, and while in SOME ways they seem so very smart, in other ways they are very less able. Social interaction with peers is one. They often find school very boring and do badly cuz they are bored, not cuz they can't do the work. They (I hate too LUMP this into a group) I guess I should make it clear that these things I say are characteristics common to gifted kids, and there are many differences/exceptions/ etc.
I guess what I am trying to say is it has been very hard for this relative. He is a teen and struggles ALOT. His Mom does the best she can to get him the best support she can. But its not easy.
I wonder if this challenge has been piled on to your challenges of growing up?
I only say this so that if it is so, maybe then it can help you to better undertand yourself too.
Thats all.
Hope you can chill out some OK.
Thanks for your reply.
((LL))
M
Posted by sunnydays on November 29, 2007, at 22:06:16
In reply to Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 20:28:00
Not for me. But I do have parts, just not so strong as you I don't think. I see pictures of myself and I see the memories and I hear them in my head. The body part is a weird thing for me. Either I feel like I'm there or I totally don't. Depends on the memory and my mood.
sunnydays
Posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 22:17:42
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by rskontos on November 29, 2007, at 20:57:29
> Muffled I know what you are asking because I have been asking people I think aren't split how they remember things too. To try and validate how we don't remember them right?
*there's alot I don't remember. And yes, I have in offhand ways asked others what they remember, cuz I try to understand whether my memory is bad , or if noone remembers stuff.
> When you dissaociate it takes all the memory the good and the bad so you cant remember the tree or climbing or if you liked it. Because you might have been climbing to escape the bad guys...:(*I have some memories. Mostly just pictures. But NO emotion, and very few people. I also am often so unsure if I am actually remembering something on my own, or something a sibling has told me, or a picture I have seen etc. But I DO know and remember I liked to go outside and climb trees. See there is a part that I have that DOES remember lotsa good stuff I liked to do. But not people. Or emotions. But I know I climbed trees really high and swayed in the wind.
>
> Is it because Muffy you want to know how others with intact memories remember stuff?*I just don't know how it works? How it feels? Alls I know is my own experience, and as I look into it, I am realizing that my way of experiencing the world is not the average way. So I just wonder how it is for most? How it feels for them. Then maybe I can feel that way too. Learn to feel and remember normally. But I not sure what normal is.
I am still learning.
This is what my T wrote:
"You have been very and I mean very skilled at keeping things separate, split. This is perhaps how you have managed to keep going."
It was weird to see it in writing. Writing is a big deal to me. Words. I still deny that I split lotsa times. Then it'll smack me clearly that I am. But sometimes in calm times, I wouldn't know. I didn't used to know a few years back. All I knew is I was always so confused so much and had so much headnoise and was so all over. Now its more sense. So that better.
I just want to know who I am.
M
Posted by Phillipa on November 29, 2007, at 23:53:37
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 22:17:42
Well I don't think I have parts or kids but I act like a kid at time. When I child I grew my self up as my Mother was sick from the time I was two. So I had to take care of me. I was Davey Crockett with a conestoga wagon a red wagon took the Oregon trail and went there in my c**n skin cap. always wanted to be a boy. Stayed in my tree house all day as I fought the boys always won and liked sitting in the tree or walking in the woods. i think this was a normal childhood was It? Phillip ps also played with dolls till l2.
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2007, at 9:31:37
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 22:17:42
The trouble is that memory is tricky in the best of times. Most people remember things in flashes. Or mix the stories people tell them, or photographs, into the memories. I've definitely noticed that most of my memories happen to involve my wearing clothes I've seen in pictures.
I have a really bad memory. I can tell stories from my youth, but if I try to remember something it just won't work. Do you tell stories about your parents and things that happened to you when you were little? Like "Daddy used to love to have parties. He was a great dancer." I sometimes remember if I actually remember anything anymore, or I just remember the memories.
On the other hand, there are flashes of memories from when I was very little that prove to be pretty accurate when checked against the memories of others. Those I think are real memories, not just remembering memories. They tend to be memories of what I would see from the point of view of whatever age I was. Like I remember going to this restaurant when I was 3 or 4, and all the perspective in the memory is from a four year old height, and I can remember the smells and sights and sounds. There are no words associated with those memories except the words spoken by me or others then.
While many memories I have involve actually seeing me doing something. I'd guess those memories have been influenced by my thoughts about the memories, and others' stories about the memories, or pictures of the events. Those memories usually involve a narrative of what's going on running through my head.
Posted by lovelorn on November 30, 2007, at 9:48:33
In reply to Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 20:28:00
Yes, when I remember myself as a kid/child it feels like it was me. The connection is there that this was you and the feelings you had at the time are still connected in mind as being part of your own feelings. It's just me at a younger age and with a younger mind. Even when I imagined separate children in me, I knew in my mind that it was still me, just different emotional faces of myself. Look in the mirror - you are not the child that you imagine in your mind. The emotions though seem to belong someone separate in your mind. But it's all you even if you can't make the connections. You are one person with a lot of emotions even if you don't feel them or process them as your own or as not belonging to you. It's all one organism - you and so same with the memories, it's all you just at different ages and with different and still not completely developed feelings and understandings in mind.
Posted by rskontos on November 30, 2007, at 10:04:43
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 22:17:42
Yeah I know. The voices in my head were really bad last night and I had dreams without really being asleep like my brain was flashing all my day in front of me without me falling completely asleep. Have you seen that show Chuck were he has a flash of the computer thing that was supposedly downloaded into his brain it was kinda of like that like. But I was still talking to myself and the voices were talking to and I could repeat what they were saying but now I can't and couldnt when I woke up but I do remember my dreams. I remember my dreams so vividly I can tell what I dreamt a couple nights ago but I can't remember what happened to me as a kid?
Then I started to think about people and I realize I don't relate to them either. Like when they aren't around I dont think about them. I have to make myself. I guess or I hope over time I would but who knows.. i have a good friend I have know 7 years and she told me the other day that she always has felt if she pushed me I would be gone and never come back. I guess that is why I don't right now worry about my T because I don't mostly think about her when she is gone. Because that is what I do. Have always done because mom you didnt want to think about her and her moods which were very BAD. She went bad and forth in her moods like the wind blows. The only place that was safe was in your head. So I don't feel normal and that is why I went to T in the first place cause I finally said why dont I feel like other people. They would laugh at stuff I didn't know why so I would laugh but didn't feel like it just did. At first with my babies I had to work at feeling but then I did fall in love but worried would they too hurt me one day. It was hard to be a mom not knowing how as my mom was not a real one. But they are ok kids, 19 and 15 and doing ok even if I didn't know how to be a good one since I only knew about moms from TV and books. I read lots to escape too. I knew about relationships from books but that isn't real either and doesn't help you know how to do it either. So I guess that is what I learned when you close the book it is over so when the people go away it is over like my books or tv shows. It is sad but I guess it is the way I grew up. Now how to change I was wondering if I can. Seems hard. Awareness doesn't equal know how does it?
I don't know how many yet. I am just aware of them. Like last night it kinda of blew me away to hear all the talking. Too back you can tape record inside your head to recall the next day. I wasn't asleep because the dog was moving around, I could hear the house settling.
I am glad it better for you. I understand wanting to know who you are. Me too, I never had the time or opportunity to know. At least we will allow our children to know themselves. I hope.
That is good you remember the good stuff. I dont. Climbing trees is a good thing. I liked swinging too. Tree swings were great too.......
Take care you are really searching and I believe you will find. You may not know you are but you are a good person that comes through loud and clear.rk
Posted by star008 on November 30, 2007, at 15:52:29
In reply to Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 20:28:00
Muffled,
I know what u are trying to say and it is a hard one to answer...lol.. ask me>>>>all split up<<<
I think that people who aren't split remember the the same way that we do..there are parts of us that aren't split off..they remeber that way.. I remember climbing trees and how I always used to get scraped on the bark climbing down. I remember that I liked it, (not getting scraped, climbing.lol) It is kind of far away but it is not like trying to grasp the memories of the split off parts..Yes, I will get you to see the value in the wild kid yet,,I know why you hate her.. Hard to describe but in a way she carries all the shame, all the blame for everything that happened that you don't "remember".. Yeah, she feels really yucky and you hate her cause what she went through was really yucky and somehow you blame her
and she makes you feel bad.. Does that make sense at all?? I felt the same way.. It just fades with time and understanding.. It is there sometimes still..There is this nasty part of me who wants to hate and hurt everyone. I used to think back and all I could feel was yuck and I hated her cuz she made me feel yuck too.hugs
Posted by littleone on December 1, 2007, at 14:46:49
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by Muffled on November 29, 2007, at 22:17:42
> *I just don't know how it works? How it feels? Alls I know is my own experience, and as I look into it, I am realizing that my way of experiencing the world is not the average way. So I just wonder how it is for most? How it feels for them. Then maybe I can feel that way too. Learn to feel and remember normally. But I not sure what normal is.
Hi muffled,
I have struggled a fair bit recently with my lack of memories and how I remember things. My T and I had a talk the other day about state dependant memories. It's still upsetting me inside.
I too have tried to understand what "normal" memories are like and I too haven't yet been able to understand what "normal" memories should look/sound/feel/etc like.
I find it all very distressing. I think that having very few memories, having no continuous history, is very disruptive (and damaging?) to one's sense of self. I sometimes feel like I only started to exist a few days ago with a database of historical facts encoded in my head.
I obviously can't tell you what is right for you, but I think I know that for me, even if someone came to me and told me what normal memories are like and how they feel to re-experience, I don't think it would help. I don't think I could *learn* how to remember and feel. I think that these would be by-products of learning something else entirely.
If my problems are because of state dependant memories (which I'm not really ready to admit yet), then I think the answer lies in working with the parts to reduce the separation between and increase the connection between them. Even as I write that I think "and what exactly does that mean - how are you supposed to do that?" and I don't know.
> This is what my T wrote:
> "You have been very and I mean very skilled at keeping things separate, split. This is perhaps how you have managed to keep going."I like your T. These simple words bring up big feelings in me. I too find that seeing my T's written words has a much different impact on me than hearing his words.
> I just want to know who I am.
yeah. we'll get there.
Oh, and PS, I meant to ask you if it's only old stuff you don't remember properly, or whether it's nowaday stuff you can't remember either? Even with present day experiences, I can only remember things for somewhere between a few hours to maybe 5 or so days and then it's gone. I don't even have memories for stuff a week old. Is it like that for you?
Posted by Muffled on December 1, 2007, at 14:53:07
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by star008 on November 30, 2007, at 15:52:29
Posted by rskontos on December 1, 2007, at 15:42:33
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by littleone on December 1, 2007, at 14:46:49
littleone, I am like you I have no memories of my childhood. My sister will recall things we went through with my parents and I don't remember it. I dissociated so much as a child, teenager and young adult. I would wake up at school or just as I got home and I would lost maybe a whole day at school or get a paper or test back with a grade and I didn't remember taking the test. Luckily my altered state person was smart. My grades never fluctated during this time. I always did very well. My home life was H*ll. My mother was very ill. both mentally and physically. I was raising myself and my two sisters with a father in denial. My father was emotional unavailable. He never spoke to us, never hugged us, nothing a big zip. So we had two parents, but really none. I have no memories of this time yet I functioned. My sister will tell about holidays where things got so bad like one Thanksgiving we had candy bars when my mother throw all the food at my father and put us in the cars and drove us to who knows, her boyfriends I guess. I was 17, the ride was probably very scary and I remember zip. All this bad stuff happened and I remember squat. My sister told me about that I still did not recall it after she told me. She was 7. When I try to remember stuff I get blankness. And my current memory is bad. The t saids that is true when you dissociate. But in high school I could remember books in their entirety and recall them in my mind to pass a test. I remember doing this once and being accused of cheating. From that point on I would miss one on purpose. So when I try to recall information something like that will come back but hardly anything else.
That is why I am fascinated with how everyone else remembers stuff. And why I ask and want to know. My T says I dissociate so bad with so little memory. When things happen now if I don't write them I wont remember. I still dissociate. For now it still keeps me safe. Though it doesn't always work and that is when I have a panic attack.
I looked up the state dependant memories. Interesting. What type of T is yours. I am going to ask mine about this too. Your question of how to reduce the separation and increase the connection is to begin on integration I believe. Which I think according to my T I am not sure they all agree with this, doesn't mean you have to remember everything. to let the memories come if they come. I have tried to force them and it wasn't pretty. I got physically ill trying. Like it fought back. I am having some weird things happen as I go down this road. Fainting spells, flashing things like a computer images flashing really fast, I don't understand any of it but the fainting spells my T says is part of dissocative disorder---the flashing things is brand new. I hope I am not scaring you. I think everyone is different because each brain handles things differently. But we do share the blankness, lack of memories. And the lack of feeling. I agree I don't think I could learn to remember or feel anymore. That time was when I was baby and my parents too that away. I am though going to try to find out who I am. And like it maybe. Take care, I enjoyed your post.
Sorry I am writing so hapzardly and zippy. My brain is working that way today.....I am usually not like this. At least I hope I am not.
rk
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 12:50:52
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by Dinah on November 30, 2007, at 9:31:37
> The trouble is that memory is tricky in the best of times. Most people remember things in flashes. Or mix the stories people tell them, or photographs, into the memories. I've definitely noticed that most of my memories happen to involve my wearing clothes I've seen in pictures.
*hmmmm! Its true , memory seems to be very diff for diff people...
> I have a really bad memory. I can tell stories from my youth, but if I try to remember something it just won't work. Do you tell stories about your parents and things that happened to you when you were little? Like "Daddy used to love to have parties. He was a great dancer." I sometimes remember if I actually remember anything anymore, or I just remember the memories.**Exactly! I dunno what my memories are either! I have actually recently discovered there IS a part that DOES actually remember some stuff! Its a part I like, but its not around much. I call it 'reality me', cuz it seems almost like a less dissociated aspect of me. Other parts het nervous though, when that part is remembering stuff, even though its not bad stuff.
>
> On the other hand, there are flashes of memories from when I was very little that prove to be pretty accurate when checked against the memories of others. Those I think are real memories, not just remembering memories. They tend to be memories of what I would see from the point of view of whatever age I was. Like I remember going to this restaurant when I was 3 or 4, and all the perspective in the memory is from a four year old height, and I can remember the smells and sights and sounds. There are no words associated with those memories except the words spoken by me or others then.**wow, that seems DETAILED that memory! Like watching a movie or something!
>
> While many memories I have involve actually seeing me doing something. I'd guess those memories have been influenced by my thoughts about the memories, and others' stories about the memories, or pictures of the events. Those memories usually involve a narrative of what's going on running through my head.*wow, thats very interesting Dinah, thanks for the post.
I still thinking on all this.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 12:58:43
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by lovelorn on November 30, 2007, at 9:48:33
> Yes, when I remember myself as a kid/child it feels like it was me. The connection is there that this was you and the feelings you had at the time are still connected in mind as being part of your own feelings.
*I don't remember feelings...
It's just me at a younger age and with a younger mind. Even when I imagined separate children in me, I knew in my mind that it was still me, just different emotional faces of myself. Look in the mirror - you are not the child that you imagine in your mind.
*I don't generally have pictures in my mind of what the kids look like, but I have had them at times. Each inside kid seems to have their own emotions, not just one. I really never thot much of being a kid. Its like I just kinda...arrived. Its hard to explain.
The emotions though seem to belong someone separate in your mind. But it's all you even if you can't make the connections. You are one person with a lot of emotions even if you don't feel them or process them as your own or as not belonging to you. It's all one organism - you and so same with the memories, it's all you just at different ages and with different and still not completely developed feelings and understandings in mind.
*This I understand on a THEORETICAL level, I have a part thats very logical, but then it just keeps smacking me in the face now and again.....that I am NOT just one :-(
Its SO hard to describe...I am still trying to understand this myself, hence the many questions.
So thanks for your reply, it all helps.
Nice to see you on babble, you seem a nice person.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 13:13:41
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by rskontos on November 30, 2007, at 10:04:43
> Yeah I know. The voices in my head were really bad last night and I had dreams without really being asleep like my brain was flashing all my day in front of me without me falling completely asleep. I remember my dreams so vividly I can tell what I dreamt a couple nights ago but I can't remember what happened to me as a kid?
*Do your meds help with the voices at all? I know that I had seroquel quieten things a bit. I fortunately don'y have 'voices' per se, its more noise, I have to focus really hard to understand whats going on. I rarely remember my dreams either. Thats got to be very frustrating for you RK :-(
> Then I started to think about people and I realize I don't relate to them either. Like when they aren't around I dont think about them. I have to make myself.
*well thats good, if your making yourself do it, at least your DOING it!
I guess or I hope over time I would but who knows.. i have a good friend I have know 7 years and she told me the other day that she always has felt if she pushed me I would be gone and never come back. I guess that is why I don't right now worry about my T because I don't mostly think about her when she is gone. Because that is what I do. Have always done because mom you didnt want to think about her and her moods which were very BAD. She went bad and forth in her moods like the wind blows. The only place that was safe was in your head.
*((((RK))))
So I don't feel normal and that is why I went to T in the first place cause I finally said why dont I feel like other people. They would laugh at stuff I didn't know why so I would laugh but didn't feel like it just did. At first with my babies I had to work at feeling but then I did fall in love but worried would they too hurt me one day. It was hard to be a mom not knowing how as my mom was not a real one. But they are ok kids, 19 and 15 and doing ok even if I didn't know how to be a good one since I only knew about moms from TV and books.
*Its amazing RK, GOOD for you! That you had SO many challenges yet did OK at being a MOM, you obviously worked hard at it from the sound of things. You obviously must love your kids.
I read lots to escape too. I knew about relationships from books but that isn't real either and doesn't help you know how to do it either. So I guess that is what I learned when you close the book it is over so when the people go away it is over like my books or tv shows. It is sad but I guess it is the way I grew up. Now how to change I was wondering if I can. Seems hard. Awareness doesn't equal know how does it?
*this last bit is so well said. There is SO much we didn't learn. Simple basic stuff that apperently the larger population seems to know? And your RIGHT awareness isn't a magic elixir that makes everything right. There is alot to learn, but as my T says, all our lives we learn and grow, herself included. Noone is perfect, all have challenges one way or another. You just can't see them to look at a person, but most have challenges, cuz thats life.
>
> I don't know how many yet. I am just aware of them. Like last night it kinda of blew me away to hear all the talking. Too back you can tape record inside your head to recall the next day. I wasn't asleep because the dog was moving around, I could hear the house settling.*sigh, thats goto be disconcerting. How can a person ever sleep with conversations going on in their head? Thats got to be so hard. I hope you can maybe find a med that can tone it down for you when it gets bad.
> I am glad it better for you. I understand wanting to know who you are. Me too, I never had the time or opportunity to know. At least we will allow our children to know themselves. I hope.*thanks. I hope our kids will be OK too.
> That is good you remember the good stuff. I dont. Climbing trees is a good thing. I liked swinging too. Tree swings were great too.......*yeah, as I said in a post above, I have a apart that DOES seem to remember stuff. I just figgered it, cuz I was sitting there REMEMBERING, and writing it down, and later I read it and its like WTF???????????? how can this be? It wasn't bad stuff, just regular everyday type stuff, stuff I didn't know I knew!
> Take care you are really searching and I believe you will find. You may not know you are but you are a good person that comes through loud and clear.
*Awwwww thanks RK, and the same can be said for you.
Take care, keep working at stuff.
Thanks for the reply.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 13:28:19
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers, posted by star008 on November 30, 2007, at 15:52:29
> I know what u are trying to say and it is a hard one to answer...lol.. ask me>>>>all split up<<<
> I think that people who aren't split remember the the same way that we do..there are parts of us that aren't split off..they remeber that way.. I remember climbing trees and how I always used to get scraped on the bark climbing down. I remember that I liked it, (not getting scraped, climbing.lol) It is kind of far away but it is not like trying to grasp the memories of the split off parts..*"there are parts of us that aren't spplit off" INTERESTING, cuz I have recently come to that conclusion myself. I recently found a part that I call "reality me", this part seems to be NOT dissociated. It FEELS GOOD to be this part. Everything seems so much SIMPLER, though when that part was here it seemed a little perplexed, and when I read what it wrote, it seemed VERY critical of itself, but maybe its cuz it was kinda perplexed at the time. BUT, it DOES have some memories! I think they are real. They are very basic, and not many, but I bet it could remember more, but what happens I think, is when that part is here and remembering, it makes other parts VERY nervous, even tho the memories are NOT bad, and for NO reason, I end up dissociating away from that part and its lost to me. "me", this me, I fear that "I" am a dissociated part :-( I think maybe the other one was real :-(
> Yes, I will get you to see the value in the wild kid yet,,I know why you hate her.. Hard to describe but in a way she carries all the shame, all the blame for everything that happened that you don't "remember".. Yeah, she feels really yucky and you hate her cause what she went through was really yucky and somehow you blame her*we try not to think of her...YES she is yucky. We , well not we, but there is a part that blames her somehow I think. Not really knowing exactly wassup, its hard to say why. Mostly I think we are just utterly horrified by what she feels, the odd time it has snuck thru the defenses.
> and she makes you feel bad.. Does that make sense at all?? I felt the same way.. It just fades with time and understanding..
*sigh, but it hasn't faded...it still haunts me :-(
It is there sometimes still..There is this nasty part of me who wants to hate and hurt everyone. I used to think back and all I could feel was yuck and I hated her cuz she made me feel yuck too.
*yes, I have a rage as well. Connected to a specific part of what limited pic we have, but it stops there, so I dunno.
I hope this can be sorted out.
Thanks for the reply star, it all helps.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 13:43:46
In reply to Re: Sorry, many questions, many good answers » Muffled, posted by littleone on December 1, 2007, at 14:46:49
> > *I just don't know how it works? How it feels? Alls I know is my own experience, and as I look into it, I am realizing that my way of experiencing the world is not the average way. So I just wonder how it is for most? How it feels for them. Then maybe I can feel that way too. Learn to feel and remember normally. But I not sure what normal is.
>
> Hi muffled,*HI LO!!!
> I have struggled a fair bit recently with my lack of memories and how I remember things. My T and I had a talk the other day about state dependant memories. It's still upsetting me inside.*:-( Sorry
> I too have tried to understand what "normal" memories are like and I too haven't yet been able to understand what "normal" memories should look/sound/feel/etc like.*Its seeming there is quite a range of what people remember...
> I find it all very distressing. I think that having very few memories, having no continuous history, is very disruptive (and damaging?) to one's sense of self. I sometimes feel like I only started to exist a few days ago with a database of historical facts encoded in my head.*cool description. I dunno how it works for me day to day, its making me nervous so i think I skip this for now.
But definately, no history=who the hell am I?
> I obviously can't tell you what is right for you, but I think I know that for me, even if someone came to me and told me what normal memories are like and how they feel to re-experience, I don't think it would help. I don't think I could *learn* how to remember and feel. I think that these would be by-products of learning something else entirely.*good point. I think either we will, or won't remember, or it may be a matter of time, or finding and communicating with a part than does remember.....
> If my problems are because of state dependant memories (which I'm not really ready to admit yet), then I think the answer lies in working with the parts to reduce the separation between and increase the connection between them. Even as I write that I think "and what exactly does that mean - how are you supposed to do that?" and I don't know.*I need to look this up...state dependant memories, I think I know what it means. It means that each part has its own database?
> > This is what my T wrote:
> > "You have been very and I mean very skilled at keeping things separate, split. This is perhaps how you have managed to keep going."
>
> I like your T. These simple words bring up big feelings in me. I too find that seeing my T's written words has a much different impact on me than hearing his words.* I like my T too :-)
Yes, written is good. Combination is better.
It made me feel weird too, validated, but at the same time sad.> > I just want to know who I am.
>
> yeah. we'll get there.*I hope so LO. At least have a measure of inner peace anyways.
> Oh, and PS, I meant to ask you if it's only old stuff you don't remember properly, or whether it's nowaday stuff you can't remember either? Even with present day experiences, I can only remember things for somewhere between a few hours to maybe 5 or so days and then it's gone. I don't even have memories for stuff a week old. Is it like that for you?*I can remember day to day stuff mostly. I forget alot. When I go to T, and she would say, "how was your week?", I'd sit there, and think and think, and finally say....I dunno. She started doing it again, I need to remind her not to do that. I need simple specific questions, then sometimes I can come up with an answer. If I work hard and concentrate, then i can eventually figger out my week and remember it to some extent. But I really have to work at it. I dunno why this is.
You memories are just GONE? Are they retrievable if you work at it? Or if you read stuff you've written, can you partly remember? I feel SO fortunate,in that I feel that *I*, whoever this is....am usu on hand at most times to some degree, so I(this mind) has reasonable continuity and not big blanks very often.
Thanks for your post LO. Its good and thot provoking and helps. I hope some of this stuff is useful for you too.
Take good care,
Muffled
Posted by rskontos on December 3, 2007, at 16:41:26
In reply to Parts....memory...etc » littleone, posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 13:43:46
Littleone, my T says that in dissociation disorders that short memory of day to day stuff suffers too especially when you are bring stuff back up. Boy is that true. Last night I was watching tv and during commercial breaks I would have to check the guide to see what I was watching. Bad huh. I don't always remember what happens week to week either.
Poeple ask me and I just say well some village is missing its idiot because I am here....and they laugh because I miss so much of my memory it is embarassing. But it will be bad when I am really old. I will probably forgot who I am. LOLThat might be a good thing LOL
Posted by Dinah on December 3, 2007, at 18:01:54
In reply to Memories.... » Dinah, posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 12:50:52
Well, it isn't so much like watching a movie, since it probably doesn't cover even a five second period. More like a flash. Then it's gone.
Posted by lovelorn on December 4, 2007, at 13:41:22
In reply to This is the thing... » lovelorn, posted by muffled on December 3, 2007, at 12:58:43
Hi Muffled,
Yes, I've done some reading in the Archives since I joined a few days ago now and have seen that you suffer some splitting. I don't really split when I sense my "other selves", it's more a breakdown in the mind to certain feelings of being young in mind and emotion, not really separate selves. It's more regression than splitting and when I do, well the younger mind part is the wounded and helpless one. In therapy right now we are discussing how to not be 'contaminated' with this part completely to where I feel so helpless and powerless and traumatized and undeveloped.
From reading the archives, I know you are experiencing something different. It's good you understand logically in mind that it is all you, though I know with your dx and similar others that experience 'parts' or 'other people' (peeps, lol) there can be blank memories and what seems as no continuation of the "self" from young and I understand better too from reading your posts and others similar how the idea of integration is a scary one. There's no real integration required on my part. It's more fixing/mending a really broken part of my mind and emotion.
>I just kinda...arrived. Its hard to explain.
You do a great job at describing how things feel and don't feel to you.
This is the end of the thread.
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