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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 8:49:01
i hate this part. Counting days until my appt. i wish i could afford weekly. Of course it could be a good sign that i am counting days right? could it mean i am bonding with him?
i am watching him and waiting. i am observing. i am waiting for him to make a move in one direction or the other... either to get pissed at me and want me to go away, or for him to see the real me, if only for a second.
i'm not actively trying to prevent him from seeing the real me, not consciously anyway. i can't control that part of me, don't know how to connect with it myself.
There are certain rxns i need to see if i am ever going to trust him. It's hard to explain. i know kind of what they are, but i can't tell him or it would be meaningless. It's like, if you told a boyfriend you needed him to surprise you with flowers...it just wouldn't have the same meaning. It's just like that. He has to come up with the rxns on his own or they won't be genuine. He has to be able to tell that i need certain things or it won't have any meaning at all.
i'm not sure what to do. i so badly want him to get it right, but i can't tell him that. i *want* to be able to learn to trust him. That is important because it took a couple of years for me to even consider trusting my pdoc... and i still don't tell him everything. Just recently he asked me something about my past and i simply refused to talk about it. He was kind of shocked because i think he had thought i wouldn't hold back with him. It's weird, but he and i have an odd relationship. We work well together, and i adore him. But we are too much alike personality-wise for me to be able to be really vulnerable or open about some things.
i'm excited because the guy seems very nice and very sharp. He made me laugh and he was able to catch me slightly off guard. That is quite cool in just 2 sessions. It makes me hopeful. But i am terrified too. i am afraid of getting my hopes up again. i am afraid it will be a repeat of all the other times i have tried to connect to people. i am afraid he will hate me iif he met the real me.
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 9:15:24
In reply to one down one to go, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 8:49:01
My therapist has taught me over the years that he just can't read my mind. And that if I hope he gives me what I need without my asking for it, I'm going to be gravely disappointed.
Which doesn't mean that there aren't reactions to what I told him that made me trust him more, and reactions to what I've told other therapists that caused me to walk.
But flexibility and openness to learn from you about you makes up for some initial lack of understanding. Many is the time when my therapist and I have fought about things that we each felt strongly about, yet fought to a ground that we were both comfortable holding.
In addition to his reaction, you might try to look at why he reacted that way, and how likely he is to respond to your reactions about his reactions.
The boyfriend who doesn't know that you need to surprise him with flowers may show his love in a dozen small practical ways. The way he reacts to your telling him that you really need him to sometimes surprise you with flowers may tell you more about his character and love than the ability to read your mind would.
I get angry with my therapist for not being able to read my mind sometimes, but in the end I think a lot of intimacy can be reached by sharing what I need and why I need it, and having him respond.
Just my two cents, for whatever they're worth. As I told you, I know nothing about relationships. :)
Posted by one woman cine on April 2, 2007, at 10:20:48
In reply to one down one to go, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 8:49:01
>>>>It's hard to explain. i know kind of what they are, but i can't tell him or it would be meaningless.
Why can't you tell him, I'm confused about this.
>>>He has to be able to tell that i need certain things or it won't have any meaning at all.
How can he tell what your needs are? How can anyone tell what another person needs? Can you explain how he might know?
The only way I know is by telling that person what I need.
>>>> i'm not sure what to do. i so badly want him to get it right, but i can't tell him that.
Why not?
>>>i *want* to be able to learn to trust him. That is important because it took a couple of years for me to even consider trusting my pdoc... and i still don't tell him everything.
Trust takes time & it takes hard work on both sides....
>>>We work well together, and i adore him.
That's good!
>>>But we are too much alike personality-wise for me to be able to be really vulnerable or open about some things.
Therapy/treatment is about you - not about him - it doesn't matter if you're alike or not.
> i'm excited because the guy seems very nice and very sharp. He made me laugh and he was able to catch me slightly off guard. That is quite cool in just 2 sessions. It makes me hopeful. But i am terrified too. i am afraid of getting my hopes up again. i am afraid it will be a repeat of all the other times i have tried to connect to people. i am afraid he will hate me iif he met the real me.
I'm not sure how it was all the previous times for you - but I know for myself - if I want things to work differently, I have to do things differently & try things differently. Doing the same things yields the same results.
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 10:33:27
In reply to Re: one down one to go » gazo, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 9:15:24
that is a VERY good point, and very true i think. i guess what i want, that i can't just say is that i need him to "get" how hurt i must be under all of this. i look and act so great, i don't look hurt. i did tell him that he has to hear what i don't say in between what i do and i begged him to ask me questions.. and about details. I suppose i do wish he could read my mind, wouldn't that be nice! But i think what i am wanting right now is for him to be able to just pick up on the fact that i am beggin for help in here somewhere. i cannot verbalize some things and i want him to be looking for that and to just ask me more to prompt me.
you gave me something to think about though. What am i supposed to do when i can't name what it is i need? That is where i am at a lot. Can't connect with it enough to know, but have a strong sense of desperation. i know i need *something.*
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 10:41:24
In reply to Re: one down one to go » gazo, posted by one woman cine on April 2, 2007, at 10:20:48
well, let me see if i can explain... i can't tell him because i have trouble identifying feelings and i just don't know how to make it come out. Sometimes i do need something or want something, but i open my mouth and no words come out. Some times the words i can't put things into words.
i want him to be hearing the pain underneath the words i guess. That part he needs to be able to do. i guess i can say it that way to him. If i dettach and tell him something horrific, i need him to be able to get that no matter how pleasant i say it, it must hurt like hell in here somewhere.
i wish i knew how to do it differently. You are right about getting the same results. i have been writing things down for him and trying to give him as much info as i can to improve his chances of connecting with me. i like him and he seems genuine.
hmmm... this is a good lesson for me. Maybe if i can make you guys understand what i am getting at, then maybe i can then explain it to him. i could always print out the thread.
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:03:21
In reply to Re: one down one to go » Dinah, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 10:33:27
> that is a VERY good point, and very true i think. i guess what i want, that i can't just say is that i need him to "get" how hurt i must be under all of this. i look and act so great, i don't look hurt. i did tell him that he has to hear what i don't say in between what i do and i begged him to ask me questions.. and about details. I suppose i do wish he could read my mind, wouldn't that be nice! But i think what i am wanting right now is for him to be able to just pick up on the fact that i am beggin for help in here somewhere. i cannot verbalize some things and i want him to be looking for that and to just ask me more to prompt me.
Then you do know what you want, and while you might need to remind him from time to time, I think you can do that.
I've often told my therapist "I know I don't look like it, but I'm really hurting and I need you to really really understand that." He tends to rush to understand that, because to my shame, if I don't feel heard by him I sometimes try to express how I feel by other methods than words. It's taken me a long time to be able to just say it rather than act it out.
I also tell him what I tend to do when I'm unable to express myself and ask him to prod me a bit when he sees those signs. I would like him just to know, but he can't so I have to give him clues. We even worked out a hand signal, but we never use it.
> you gave me something to think about though. What am i supposed to do when i can't name what it is i need? That is where i am at a lot. Can't connect with it enough to know, but have a strong sense of desperation. i know i need *something.*
Then you say exactly that. You might want to even keep a written version of that on hand, in case you can't even find those words.
I'm not saying it's not possible that he won't be the therapist for you. And that you won't have ways of knowing that.
By the way, while I've gotten reasonably good at telling him what I need, or that I don't know what I need but what he's giving me isn't it, I am still apt to get angry when he doesn't recognize what he's done to make me angry. He laughs at me and says I'm like his wife "If you don't know what's wrong, I'm certainly not going to tell you." And then he sits patiently while until I blurt out his offense and we talk about not only what he's done but the meaning I've given it.
He doesn't say so outright, but I suspect that he's telling me that this is therapy and therapy is the place where we learn to use words to express things.
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 11:22:12
In reply to Re: one down one to go » gazo, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:03:21
> Then you do know what you want, and while you might need to remind him from time to time, I think you can do that.i sort of do i guess.. i just have that strong feeling that i can't name. i want him to have intuition. i think he might have what i want, but i don't know for sure yet and so i am scared. i guess what i want is for him to be able to "read" me.
> I also tell him what I tend to do when I'm unable to express myself and ask him to prod me a bit when he sees those signs.
that much i have done. i told him directly that i often can't make words come out. At least once while i was there i struggled with it and i pointed that out to him. Maybe a hand signal is a good idea for me. i think it becomes obvious that i have something i can't say or can't find words for.
>
> Then you say exactly that. You might want to even keep a written version of that on hand, in case you can't even find those words.thanks dinah :o) That is a great idea.
>
> I'm not saying it's not possible that he won't be the therapist for you. And that you won't have ways of knowing that.i really think he is. He has said a number of things which have peaked my interest. i am just completely terrified... of him, of myself, of having it fail and even of having it work. i mean, i *know* how to live with being completely dysfunctional. As much as it is broken i am familiar with it.
>
> He laughs at me and says I'm like his wife "If you don't know what's wrong, I'm certainly not going to tell you."Lol! That is perfect. i am embarrassed to admit that is probably what it is i am saying now. How much of "getting it" or reading me is his job though? Doesn't he need to be able to figure some of this out when i don't know or don't see the connections?
> He doesn't say so outright, but I suspect that he's telling me that this is therapy and therapy is the place where we learn to use words to express things.
But how? If i don't know or can't tell him...
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:36:14
In reply to Re: one down one to go » Dinah, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 11:22:12
> Lol! That is perfect. i am embarrassed to admit that is probably what it is i am saying now. How much of "getting it" or reading me is his job though? Doesn't he need to be able to figure some of this out when i don't know or don't see the connections?
Sadly, the answer is that he likely can't. Every patient he sees is an individual, and while he may have developed experience in generalities, he has no crystal ball for you, Gazo. In time he might be able to connect things you say in a way you can't, being too close, and use his expertise to make suggestions. Unfortunately while he may be right, sometimes he might be wrong.
I think his real job is to help you learn how to know and to see the connections. I wish therapy were magical, or that I went to therapy and he therapized me. But the truth is that it's more of a slogging learning of my own, with him as a guide and prompt. The work is mine. I guess I must be a slow learner, but I think I'm getting there. :)
(The books and movies don't make it seem that way. They make it seem as if the therapist listens to the client, makes a brilliant interpretation, and the client becomes all better. Either my therapist isn't like this mythical therapist, or I'm not like the mythical client, or the whole idea is a myth, or perhaps wishful thinking on the part of the therapist.)
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:51:36
In reply to Re: one down one to go » Dinah, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 11:22:12
Or maybe my therapist is just sadly deficient in the brilliant insight area. Perhaps others have different experiences.
But he has many other fine and useful qualities.
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 2, 2007, at 11:53:52
In reply to Re: one down one to go » gazo, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:36:14
Dearest Gazo,
I will keep this short and sweet. All I wanted to say is... "I very much doubt anyone would hate you if they knew the real you." I would venture as far as to say that If anyone does get to know the real you then they will be a very lucky person/ man/ woman/ child or even therapist... THEY'LL BE MOST LUCKY INDEED..! Just a hunch I get... smiles to you from Scentedgarden... hugs too * *p.s. this week will fly by, and before you know it, mit'll be the weekend and you'll be going to appt. I was on fortnightly for at first and more recently..so I speak from my own experience.. The time really does begin to fly... I hope it will be the same or similar for you..! P.P.s. I'd love to get to know you..! You seem very witty, intelligent, quick, full of life, charming, interesting, i could go on and on ...but to suffice to say for now ...Yes I certainly would like to know the real you, and I'm sure as sure csn be anyone who does is blessed and priveleged.. Take care of yourself for the week ahead...be kind to yourself as if you were being kind to someone you like very very much... (thats just my encouraging words to you, obviously you can tell me to mind my own business lol...hahah and skidaddle offski...lol... It's all good..!!!!!! bye bye sg
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 21:18:22
In reply to Re: one down one to go .._Dearest Gazo..!, posted by Scentedgarden on April 2, 2007, at 11:53:52
Omg SG, i have tears in my eyes, but in a good way. What sweet things to say! How did you know i could use the boost today? I had a horrible day at work, a lot of long hours down the tube. I am tired and drained. You just made the whole day seem like it was all worth it.
Having said that, i think you get the best of me here maybe. It's an artificial environment. i always try hard to be good to people, but there is just something wrong with me somehow. i freak people out or something. i am a freak. yup, a freak. i don't know what it is i do that makes people hate me or not want to be friends with me. But it's too consistent to just be everyone else and not me. Maybe it's something about me in person rather than online?
Generally i feel like some kind of monster or freak. i told my T that i was a freak and he started writing something down...so i laughed outloud because i thought he was writing down that i was a freak! Lol! He thought that was pretty funny too.
> "I very much doubt anyone would hate you if they knew the real you."
i don't know about that SG. A lot of people hate me. i tried to do something just recently.. and i was worried a friend's feelings would be hurt, so i did my best to work around that and i muddled the whole thing up. The friend got hurt anyway and now she hates me. Sent me the most horrible emails.
you are a gem!!! i am very sorry i missed you that night in chat. I'd love to get to know you too.:o)Thanks for making my whole week. This is much better than the hate-email i got all day.
>smiles to you from Scentedgarden... hugs too* *p.s. this week will fly by, and before you know it, mit'll be the weekend and you'll be going to appt. I was on fortnightly for at first and more recently..so I speak from my own experience.. The time really does begin to fly... I hope it will be the same or similar for you..! P.P.s. I'd love to get to know you..! You seem very witty, intelligent, quick, full of life, charming, interesting, i could go on and on ...but to suffice to say for now ...Yes I certainly would like to know the real you, and I'm sure as sure csn be anyone who does is blessed and priveleged.. Take care of yourself for the week ahead...be kind to yourself as if you were being kind to someone you like very very much... (thats just my encouraging words to you, obviously you can tell me to mind my own business lol...hahah and skidaddle offski...lol... It's all good..!!!!!! bye bye sg
Posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 21:22:27
In reply to Re: one down one to go » gazo, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 11:36:14
hmmm... do you mind if i ask how he does guide you? i am sure that the portrayals of therapy are way off, they are about most things. i doubt your T is any less sparkly than any other. i think maybe the movies and stuff take maybe 10+yrs of therapy and condense all the things acheived into one session and make it look like giant instant insights. Just a guess.
i'm just nervous. i'm hopeful too, which is abnormal when it comes to the idea of this sort of thing helping. this new T has given me some hope again. i had pretty much given up.
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2007, at 1:36:44
In reply to Re: one down one to go » Dinah, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 21:22:27
> hmmm... do you mind if i ask how he does guide you?
Verrrry gently and cautiously. (grin)
>
> i'm just nervous. i'm hopeful too, which is abnormal when it comes to the idea of this sort of thing helping. this new T has given me some hope again. i had pretty much given up.
>
>Hope is a very good thing.
Posted by DisTraught on April 3, 2007, at 8:31:25
In reply to Re: one down one to go » Dinah, posted by gazo on April 2, 2007, at 10:33:27
You make me think:) I wonder if you could help your T help you by simply giving facts about either one situation or a whole lot of situations. By your NOT not placing any evaluations/judgement your T could help you from there and come up with the questions thereby revealing how hurt you were/are. It's like giving a dog a bone to chew (if you don't mind the analogy, sure hope MY T isn't reading this ;)).
Penny
Posted by gazo on April 3, 2007, at 19:10:53
In reply to Re: one down one to go gazo, posted by DisTraught on April 3, 2007, at 8:31:25
> You make me think:) I wonder if you could help your T help you by simply giving facts about either one situation or a whole lot of situations. By your NOT not placing any evaluations/judgement your T could help you from there and come up with the questions thereby revealing how hurt you were/are. It's like giving a dog a bone to chew (if you don't mind the analogy, sure hope MY T isn't reading this ;)).
>
> Pennyi think those are excellent suggestions Penny. :o) i am trying. i write him letters. i am trying to be as factual and as clear as i can. i do better answering a question than just stating something so i told him that. i have told him as much as i can about how to relate to me and the pitfalls to look out for. i am hoping that if i tell him enough stuff about the defense mechanisms i have and the ways i play duck and cover... maybe he will be able to pick his way around.
This is the end of the thread.
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