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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 8:40:05
Odd that I wrote on this board before my session yesterday that my therapist has to do a balancing act between adult and child Aphrodite. It went so badly yesterday, that all of us wanted to leave.
I have a very critical, cynical adult self who showed up to therapy. I fussed at him about some insurance matters, about his office, about the fact that he babies me and always paints me as "all things good" and my perpetrators as "all things bad." I told him that some of my abuse occurred at an age I could have done something about it, I chose not to, and this suffering is just the consequences of that inaction. I told him I didn't want to be a victim -- that would only feed my self-pity. He responded with equal venom and argued with the cynical adult rather harshly and berated me for abusing the child parts of me. It got rather contentious. Then, to calm down, he wanted me to a visualization we often do to negotiate the different sides, and he ended up getting to the young, abused girl who started crying. She said there was one particular memory that makes her feel shameful and guilty and sad, and she needed to share it. By that time, it was close to the end, and he told her, very gently, that now was not the right time. So she had a temper tantrum, and we all left.
He called me later, and I was a complete mess. I told him it was too much, too hard, I couldn't handle it anymore, and I have barely just begun talking about all of the hard, suppressed stuff. I said I wasn't coming back. He tried to reassure me, but it didn't exactly work. He said he would leave the time open for me and hoped that I would come back. He kept repeating that I needed therapy but that I was "free agent Aphrodite." He said if he thought I was quitting to protect myself, he would understand, but he thinks it's another form of self-abuse and neglect, and he wanted to protect my wounded side from it. (This is my 3rd attempt at quitting. Every time I start to feel dependent, I want to bolt.) At this point, I was crying so hard, I just had to say a meek goodbye and hang up.
This is so, so hard. I was surprised at how much arguing with my cynical side hurt me. I am 90% that skeptical, cynical person, but it has served me well -- it's not all bad like he says. That part of me keeps me from drowning in self-pity, it helps me care about issues greater than myself, it puts things into prospective. And while I err in invalidating my pain, without it I don't think I'd be successful in my career or keep it all together for my kiddo. When I lose control, the critical adult keeps us all from imploding.
I have too much pride to show up to my next appointment. Now we are all terribly alone.
Posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 11:19:22
In reply to Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 8:40:05
Pride is horribly overrated. I can't tell you how many times I quit or tantrumed or did something else that caused me to want to slink away and never come back. But while that may well be an appropriate response in social situations, this is your *therapist*. If he's anything like mine, he's not going to judge you harshly, and there's no reason to worry about pride. He's more likely to be proud of you for having the courage to come in and face more.
My therapist is usually very careful to be polite with my grown up rational side that is frequently anything but polite to him. But he generally does try to remember that all of me is his client, and that grown up rational me has as many reasons for behaving that way as any other part. So sometimes he might make off the cuff remarks showing his irritation, but he generally tries not to take sides.
If you genuinely think therapy isn't a wise choice for you, then stopping therapy is a good choice for you. You might want to process it a bit longer so that you don't feel like the process was terminated in an unsatisfying way, but you don't have to continue going.
If you don't think he's adequately addressing certain parts of your experience by skimming over your shame or being too "nice" to allow you to properly process any shame you're feeling, you should take that up with him and make sure he doesn't force you to gloss over what you feel. In that case, your grown up self did all your selves a favor by telling him so. From what I understand (and of course I'm no expert) shame/guilt is often a large component of the experience of abuse. I think we all rationally recognize that the shame should lie with the abuser, not the abused, but it would be foolish to assume that a rational understanding would make the feelings go away. You need to be able to talk about it and have your feelings respected, even if they're then respectfully challenged.
Or this might just be one of those stops in the struggle for relationship.
Whatever the case may be, terminating abruptly with so much emotion doesn't seem the most prudent course, especially on the basis of that truly highly overrated virtue of pride. Humbling yourself before your therapist can bring rewards of untold richness. Or so my experience has been anyway.
Posted by DaisyM on September 3, 2004, at 11:32:31
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 11:19:22
Aphrodite,
You know I've been where you are so this might sound harsh but I believe it to be true. There is a part of you that is "testing" your therapist to see if you are important enough for him to "chase" you and insist that you keep going to therapy. Somewhere in there, you've been so damaged by people who were suppose to take care of you that running when they get close is an ingrained response. It is the same struggle that I have over and over..."tell me again that I NEED TO BE HERE" because it seems selfish. Plus, if there is this big need to tell something, and anxiety too, this may be masking your fear. Another way of keeping your defenses up.
You aren't a quitter. Take pride in that. It takes more guts and courage to go back in there and start again. You don't even have to apologize, just show up and go forward.
God, it hurts. I know that. And it is so confusing. But you aren't alone, you have your son and you have us and you do have your therapist. Remember, you asked him to advocate for your younger side. This is important. Let him do it. And, keep explaining that you have to live your life too.
You can put the brakes on without stopping. I'm going to do that for awhile.
I'm going away for the weekend. If I can check in I will. Please take care of yourself and rethink this decision.
Hugs
Daisy
Posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 13:38:54
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 11:19:22
Dinah, Your reply was so powerful. I thank you for it. You cannot imagine how consumed I am with pride. I am embarrassed every time I walk into his office; I don't want to need him or therapy. I go weak at the knees when I have to go back after I've shown emotion. I hate being exposed. I want him to see the productive, intelligent me, but that part doesn't need him. I'm more vested in being a good patient making linear, measureable progress in order to please him than I am in healing myself.
I think you're right that he wouldn't judge me for returning. I just don't want him to have that kind of power over me, you know? It's such a radical departure from how I've conducted myself over the years. I just don't know what to do. It's going to be a crummy weekend:(
Posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 13:44:48
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by DaisyM on September 3, 2004, at 11:32:31
I think you're probably right that I am testing him, but if I really need him, it's a stupid thing for me to do. After all, I've done this before, and I know he doesn't chase. He's very much into my autonomy and knows that I am rebellious enough to be resentful if he used any strong arm tactics. He's irritatingly patient. But I have a pattern of running every time I've been close to someone. When I was younger, I would break up with boyfriends if they were too nice. If someone helps me, I am uncomfortable in the friendship unless I can "even it up." I can't stand the thought of being a burden to him, an unpredictable weepy mess engaging in attention-getting behavior. I don't mean for it to be that way. I'm getting isolation, not attention, but I have no idea how to heal or how to accept his support.
Thanks for your kindness. Lots of tears today.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2004, at 14:13:11
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long) » DaisyM, posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 13:44:48
Aprhodite,
I can hear your pain in your posts. I'm sorry this is so painful for you. It sounds like you are indeed that 90% rational, functioning person who would not have much time for anything or anyone that appeared weak or dependent. By this I mean the parts of you. I have seen you be so compassionate, understandint, and caring towards others on the board. It's scary to try to do that with yourself, because it does leave you open and vulnerable.Whatever you decide, and I hope you do go back, I hope you find some peace and calm.
Please take care of all aspects of your self.Warmly,
gg
Posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 14:37:04
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long) » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 13:38:54
Hmmm... I was thinking about that today, in light of our session. I was thinking that he never really gets to see the productive, intelligent me. I've always felt that he sees me as more ummm... "troubled" is the word he uses, than I see myself. But that was true even when I brought the "productive, intelligent" part of me to therapy. :(
But I don't suppose that's as important as the fact that I really am doing better, in just about any measure. That's the important thing, right? If you can't see how the road you're on is going to help you feel better in the long run, you need to ask him to remind you from time to time. :)
Posted by fallsfall on September 3, 2004, at 17:16:49
In reply to Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 8:40:05
>>he ended up getting to the young, abused girl who started crying. She said there was one particular memory that makes her feel shameful and guilty and sad, and she needed to share it. By that time, it was close to the end, and he told her, very gently, that now was not the right time.
I hate it when the session is over but I need more time...
Your young side has something that she needs to tell him. And she probably can't understand why he couldn't listen right then. But *you* know that he WANTS to hear from her. Can you give her a gift? Can you bring her back to therapy so that she can tell him what she needs to tell him? She has been hurt so much for such a long time. You have a chance to take care of her right now - to show her the compassion she has always deserved.
Posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 17:51:18
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2004, at 14:13:11
Thanks, GG. I never thought about treating myself like I treat others. I'm not particularly cynical or judgmental toward others, but I do heap a lot of that on myself. I know that if another poster wrote what I did, I'd insist that they go back and take care of themselves. Why can't I tell myself that?
Posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 17:53:33
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long) » Aphrodite, posted by fallsfall on September 3, 2004, at 17:16:49
Falls, Your post made me cry. (OK, it's not too hard to do that right now.) I am very hard on that little girl -- she just interferes so much with my functioning. But deep in my heart of hearts, I know she didn't deserve or ask for any of it, and the pain still lingers all these years later.
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:59:33
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long) » DaisyM, posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 13:44:48
Thank you for this thread. You and I (and I hope you don't take offense at this) sound very very much alike. At least, I had the same issues. Did you know that in the end I made the decision not to see my darling therapist anymore? And I mean "darling" in the purest sense. (Oxford has a beautiful definition.)
I spent so many days feeling bereft and isolated. Finally I had to make a permanent break because I was so dysfunctional on a day-to-day basis. I believe there were times that the only things that held me together was his answering machine and getting high; I think without something that substituted for the intensity of my T's caring I would've drowned in tears. Aphrodite maybe you need to trust your therapist's caring.
Maybe it's something to do with never having had a sense of being cared for or listened to before?
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 4, 2004, at 0:12:01
In reply to Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 8:40:05
Aphrodite,
I see this in a different light. I see the one you named as the adult cynic has two roles. One roles is he or she is controlling the child and two he or she is protecting the child. In the first role, that one is being an abuser to the child. That role is one of continuing what was learned as a child and repeating it. The other role is a protector. He or she is protecting the child from other adults that may try to get to the vunerable child.
This part of you have powerful positions and demands respect. They may control what the child states in therapy after all the memory didn't get verbalized until the end of session. Look at who is actually in control of the therapy. For some reason, this aspect of self feels threaten by the therapist or the therapy process. Maybe this part doesn't want the old secrets to be told by the child. They see that as vunerable. They see dependency as dangerous too.
I feel the therapist shouldn't argue with this part, but ask them what is that they need or what is it they fear. This process is knocking on vunerability and spells out, "I will get hurt again" message to me. Why not jounal with this aspect of self. They need their say, but I would not argue with them. That goes no where and keep the progress of therapy side tracked. They know what they are doing. They are very clever and do their job well. I respect them for protecting the child so well. However, they need to be taught they don't have do what they were taught when interacting with the child. The child deserves respect too.
Posted by shortelise on September 4, 2004, at 15:19:40
In reply to Crisis #28,567 (long), posted by Aphrodite on September 3, 2004, at 8:40:05
Do we redo in therapy what we have done in other parts of life, and learn from the very different outcome that the outcome *can* be different?
ShortE
Posted by Susan47 on September 4, 2004, at 23:08:36
In reply to Re: Crisis #28,567 (long) » Aphrodite, posted by shortelise on September 4, 2004, at 15:19:40
Yes! That's what I really believe happened in my therapy! A light just went on a couple of days ago and I saw a triangle I tried to re-create with my therapist! Ew ew ew, and it was my mother my father and myself. Ew ew ew. God it was such an insight... and that poor T probably never knew what it was all about .. ?
This is the end of the thread.
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