![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by avid abulia on June 16, 2003, at 13:04:02
In reply to stress/cortisol/HPA, posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2003, at 9:15:05
interesting that this article mentions methylcobalamin in it, and in particular its effects on sleep...
one of the main differences i have noted since beginning to take it is an increases in feeling well-rested throughout the day, despite sleeping a bit less than before; and this effect is qualitatively different then when i have a mixed-state med breakthrough, in which i feel like i need less sleep despite feeling very poorly-rested.
A plant they did not mention, but which has been found to reduce plasma cortisol through suppression of a certain immunoglobin (sorry, i upped my Keppra yesterday and my usually-sharp memory is a bit dull still and i can`t recall specifically which one) is St. John`s wort... in fact, latest research hypothesizes that this herb exerts antidepressant effects primarily through immuno-regulation as opposed to its known but relatively weaker effects on biogenic amines.
~AA
Posted by jrbecker on June 18, 2003, at 9:36:42
In reply to stress/cortisol/HPA, posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2003, at 9:15:05
Lar,
I was curious if you yourself ever tried methylcobalamin and what you thought of it. Wondering if this had any effect on your CFS-like symptoms.
JB
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 18, 2003, at 10:08:58
In reply to Re: stress/cortisol/HPA, posted by jrbecker on June 18, 2003, at 9:36:42
> Lar,
>
> I was curious if you yourself ever tried methylcobalamin and what you thought of it. Wondering if this had any effect on your CFS-like symptoms.
>
> JBNo, I haven't tried it (yet).
I found substantial improvement with cyanocobalamin supplementation, but after investigating the subject more fully, I can only conclude the cyanocobalamin ought not to be even on the market. Forcing the liver to detoxify cyanide to obtain useful cobalamin is hardly my idea of a good thing.
Lar
Posted by jrbecker on June 18, 2003, at 12:06:39
In reply to Re: stress/cortisol/HPA » jrbecker, posted by Larry Hoover on June 18, 2003, at 10:08:58
> > Lar,
> >
> > I was curious if you yourself ever tried methylcobalamin and what you thought of it. Wondering if this had any effect on your CFS-like symptoms.
> >
> > JB
>
> No, I haven't tried it (yet).
>
> I found substantial improvement with cyanocobalamin supplementation, but after investigating the subject more fully, I can only conclude the cyanocobalamin ought not to be even on the market. Forcing the liver to detoxify cyanide to obtain useful cobalamin is hardly my idea of a good thing.
>
> Lar
>
>
Hmmm, so you're saying it's worth it [insert sarcastic tone here].
Posted by Ron Hill on June 19, 2003, at 19:46:40
In reply to Re: stress/cortisol/HPA, posted by jrbecker on June 18, 2003, at 9:36:42
> Lar,
>
> I was curious if you yourself ever tried methylcobalamin and what you thought of it. Wondering if this had any effect on your CFS-like symptoms.
>
> JB
-----------------------------JB & Lar,
A couple years ago, I started taking 1.0 mg/day of methylcobalamin in a sublingual tablet. I currently take 0.5 mg/day sublingually. The benefit that I experience is noticeable; not profound, but noticeable. YMMV.
Lar, thanks for posting your health concerns regarding cyanocobalamin. I've never read this information prior to your post. Initially, I chose to use the methylcobalamin form of B12 because of its higher bioavailability. Unfortunately, the majority of multi-vitamin supplements contain cyanocobalamin which is problematic if your concerns are valid (and I've rarely seen you wrong).
Do you take a multi-vitamin in addition to your other supplements? If so, what is your favorite brand? Liquid or tablet? I’ve taken a daily multi-vitamin for years and I’ve recently scoured the nutritional store shelves for a good multi that contains chelated minerals and the like. The product that I’m currently using is the best I’ve come across locally, but there are at least two things I don’t like about it. First, it contains 9 mg of iron (as iron amino acid chelate), whereas I would prefer iron-free. Iron-free products are available, but I’ve not yet found a brand that also meets my other criteria. Second, my current multi contains 75 mcg of cyanocobalamin.
For a month or so I took a liquid multi-vitamin. I liked it okay fine, but it’s spendie. I suppose I could bite the bullet and pay the price for a good liquid multi-vitamin and a good liquid multi-mineral. However, the bigger issue is that my wife is already complaining about the amount of refrigerator space I’m taking up with my supplements and a case of Carlson’s fish oil (I buy a case at a time to make it more affordable). But what the heck, what if I just go ahead and put the liquid vitamin/mineral bottles in the fridge? What’s she going to do about it, throw them out? She might threaten to do just that, but she’ll change her mind when I tell her how much they cost.
-- Ron
Posted by samplemethod on June 20, 2003, at 2:40:18
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin » Larry Hoover » jrbecker, posted by Ron Hill on June 19, 2003, at 19:46:40
Ok I'm gonna go get some b12 1000 mcg cyanocobalamin chewable tabs today. Cant find methylcobalamin is Aust yet. And im thinkin I housld try it in an easy to get form b4 i shell out to get it imported etc.
I think my intake of ALA will provide enough glutathione to make the methylcobalamin in me.
Now I have a suspicion that someone may be able to inform me on. The first time I took ALA only 100mg, I had a great reaction and felt, nice, rested, powerful, yummy etc. It was actually a huge impact on me.
However when I tried it again... 2 days later...I didnt get the yummy feeling... only an irritable stimulation.
Since then I have been taking like 100mg after meals and finding nothing to happen.
2 days ago I took 200mg ALA when I just began to eat my meal. It was really good... got the yummy feelings once again, and funnilly enough.. stopped eating before I usually would. Probably cos I the satiety I experienced from the ALA effects.
Now I am narrowing down the causes and I am thinking that the ALA allows a steady flow of blood sugar from my intake of food (only if I take the ALA before I start eating)
OR
That the larger doses of ALA create enough glutathione, which apparently according to Lar, is the rate limiting step, in creating methylcobalamin from cyanocobalamin) -- oh and by the way I just read a speculation from a naturopath that some of the good effects from b12 is the trace amounts of cyanide it creates-- but I dunno about that)
Anyway... then in the second case the good feelings are actually coming from the bioavailable b12 ALA allows.
Now - What are your thoughts guys?
> > Lar,
> >
> > I was curious if you yourself ever tried methylcobalamin and what you thought of it. Wondering if this had any effect on your CFS-like symptoms.
> >
> > JB
> -----------------------------
>
> JB & Lar,
>
> A couple years ago, I started taking 1.0 mg/day of methylcobalamin in a sublingual tablet. I currently take 0.5 mg/day sublingually. The benefit that I experience is noticeable; not profound, but noticeable. YMMV.
>
> Lar, thanks for posting your health concerns regarding cyanocobalamin. I've never read this information prior to your post. Initially, I chose to use the methylcobalamin form of B12 because of its higher bioavailability. Unfortunately, the majority of multi-vitamin supplements contain cyanocobalamin which is problematic if your concerns are valid (and I've rarely seen you wrong).
>
> Do you take a multi-vitamin in addition to your other supplements? If so, what is your favorite brand? Liquid or tablet? I’ve taken a daily multi-vitamin for years and I’ve recently scoured the nutritional store shelves for a good multi that contains chelated minerals and the like. The product that I’m currently using is the best I’ve come across locally, but there are at least two things I don’t like about it. First, it contains 9 mg of iron (as iron amino acid chelate), whereas I would prefer iron-free. Iron-free products are available, but I’ve not yet found a brand that also meets my other criteria. Second, my current multi contains 75 mcg of cyanocobalamin.
>
> For a month or so I took a liquid multi-vitamin. I liked it okay fine, but it’s spendie. I suppose I could bite the bullet and pay the price for a good liquid multi-vitamin and a good liquid multi-mineral. However, the bigger issue is that my wife is already complaining about the amount of refrigerator space I’m taking up with my supplements and a case of Carlson’s fish oil (I buy a case at a time to make it more affordable). But what the heck, what if I just go ahead and put the liquid vitamin/mineral bottles in the fridge? What’s she going to do about it, throw them out? She might threaten to do just that, but she’ll change her mind when I tell her how much they cost.
>
> -- Ron
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 8:39:08
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin » Larry Hoover » jrbecker, posted by Ron Hill on June 19, 2003, at 19:46:40
> A couple years ago, I started taking 1.0 mg/day of methylcobalamin in a sublingual tablet. I currently take 0.5 mg/day sublingually. The benefit that I experience is noticeable; not profound, but noticeable. YMMV.
>
> Lar, thanks for posting your health concerns regarding cyanocobalamin. I've never read this information prior to your post. Initially, I chose to use the methylcobalamin form of B12 because of its higher bioavailability. Unfortunately, the majority of multi-vitamin supplements contain cyanocobalamin which is problematic if your concerns are valid (and I've rarely seen you wrong).Well, maybe you haven't known me long enough.... ;-)
http://www.strokedoctor.com/vitamin_b12.htm
There's a discussion in this reference that the cyanocobalamin form of B-12 is *not* equivalent in effect to methylcobalamin (the form found in food), at least with respect to the treatment of neuropathies. The references in this paper come from the 70's, while there are a good number of more recent and similar titles in Pubmed, but there are no abstracts available for any of them. (grumble)
Given these concerns, and the simply confusing decision to continue to permit the marketing of a supplement which places a key antioxidant system (glutathione) under additional stress, and which has a bioavailability of something like 1%, baffles my little mind.
Now, I saw methylcobalamin lozenges in the store yesterday, dose 5 mg. Given that the largest dose of cyanocobalamin I came across is 1 mg, and the 1% conversion of the latter to the former, that would make the 5 mg methylcobalamin lozenges 500 times the dose, non? Something still seems weird....
> Do you take a multi-vitamin in addition to your other supplements? If so, what is your favorite brand? Liquid or tablet? I’ve taken a daily multi-vitamin for years and I’ve recently scoured the nutritional store shelves for a good multi that contains chelated minerals and the like. The product that I’m currently using is the best I’ve come across locally, but there are at least two things I don’t like about it. First, it contains 9 mg of iron (as iron amino acid chelate), whereas I would prefer iron-free. Iron-free products are available, but I’ve not yet found a brand that also meets my other criteria. Second, my current multi contains 75 mcg of cyanocobalamin.
I take a multi, but I don't pay much attention to the details, beyond the considerations that the B's are in good concentration (50 or better), and the minerals are chelated. I've never given iron much thought, to tell you the truth.
> For a month or so I took a liquid multi-vitamin. I liked it okay fine, but it’s spendie. I suppose I could bite the bullet and pay the price for a good liquid multi-vitamin and a good liquid multi-mineral. However, the bigger issue is that my wife is already complaining about the amount of refrigerator space I’m taking up with my supplements and a case of Carlson’s fish oil (I buy a case at a time to make it more affordable).You don't need to refrigerate it before it's open. Store in a cool, dark place, but not necessarily refrigerated.
>ut what the heck, what if I just go ahead and put the liquid vitamin/mineral bottles in the fridge? What’s she going to do about it, throw them out? She might threaten to do just that, but she’ll change her mind when I tell her how much they cost.
Don't tell her that.....she'll think you daft.
> -- RonLar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 8:42:32
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Lar et al, posted by samplemethod on June 20, 2003, at 2:40:18
> Now I have a suspicion that someone may be able to inform me on. The first time I took ALA only 100mg, I had a great reaction and felt, nice, rested, powerful, yummy etc. It was actually a huge impact on me.
>
> However when I tried it again... 2 days later...I didnt get the yummy feeling... only an irritable stimulation.(snip)
I don't know just how ALA would have a psychoactive effect. I'll poke around, and see if I come up with anything.
Lar
Posted by samplemethod on June 20, 2003, at 9:51:58
In reply to Re: alphalipoic acid » samplemethod, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 8:42:32
Lar,
I don't think it was just ALA that made the psychoactive effects. I am thinking that ALA allows something to happen, a catalyst, or a rate limiting step synthesiser or something along those lines if you know what I mean.
WHy i think this is that ALA doesnt always produce psychoactive effects and seems to run out of juice if you know what I mean. I reckon this is so cos it uses something up during the yummy psychoactive phase. ANd when I use it again closely afterwards it has nothing to act upon in the above mentioned sorta ways.
You do know that ALA produces more glutathione right? do u know how much it prouces?
Also do u know if cyanocobalamin, or the other cobalamins (or the final active ingredient that they all go to), if they are stored up somewhat in the body?
> > Now I have a suspicion that someone may be able to inform me on. The first time I took ALA only 100mg, I had a great reaction and felt, nice, rested, powerful, yummy etc. It was actually a huge impact on me.
> >
> > However when I tried it again... 2 days later...I didnt get the yummy feeling... only an irritable stimulation.
>
> (snip)
>
> I don't know just how ALA would have a psychoactive effect. I'll poke around, and see if I come up with anything.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 10:12:07
In reply to Re: alphalipoic acid » Larry Hoover, posted by samplemethod on June 20, 2003, at 9:51:58
> Lar,
>
> I don't think it was just ALA that made the psychoactive effects. I am thinking that ALA allows something to happen, a catalyst, or a rate limiting step synthesiser or something along those lines if you know what I mean.
>
> WHy i think this is that ALA doesnt always produce psychoactive effects and seems to run out of juice if you know what I mean. I reckon this is so cos it uses something up during the yummy psychoactive phase. ANd when I use it again closely afterwards it has nothing to act upon in the above mentioned sorta ways.Still, I can't think of anything that would have the immediate results you describe, and that would also be "used up".
> You do know that ALA produces more glutathione right? do u know how much it prouces?
I can only say there's a fairly linear dose-response. GSH activity increases proportional to ALA intake.
> Also do u know if cyanocobalamin, or the other cobalamins (or the final active ingredient that they all go to), if they are stored up somewhat in the body?
Yes, cobalamin is stored by the body, a unique characteristic among the B-vitamins. Cyanocobalamin is stored as cyanocobalamin, rather than as methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin. Cyanocobalamin is produced during the treatment of cyanide poisoning with hydroxycobalamin, and there is substantial urinary excretion, so I'd presume that ingested cyanocobalamin would also spill into urine.
I've heard it said that healthy people have a five-year supply of B-12 in their liver, but the assumptions upon which that assertion is based are certainly arguable.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on June 20, 2003, at 12:18:36
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin » Ron Hill, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 8:39:08
Lar,
> http://www.strokedoctor.com/vitamin_b12.htm
Very informative article. Thanks! I'm going to look on-line for a multi-vitamin and a B-complex that contains methylcobalamin instead of cyanocobalamin. My current B-complex contains 100 mcg of cyanocobalamin per tablet and, as I mentioned previously, my multi has 75 mcg per tablet.
>> However, the bigger issue is that my wife is already complaining about the amount of refrigerator space I’m taking up with my supplements and a case of Carlson’s fish oil (I buy a case at a time to make it more affordable).
> You don't need to refrigerate it before it's open. Store in a cool, dark place, but not necessarily refrigerated.
That's what I thought too since the fish oil is in a sealed brown bottle with a nitrogen blanket. But the people at the nutritional store suggested that I refrigerate the unopened bottles. I'm going to move it to a cool, dark place which will make the wife happier.
Thanks for helping to promote a healthy marriage. Now, do you have any ideas on how I can get my mildly ADD wife to pick-up after herself in a timely fashion? :-)
-- Ron
Posted by samplemethod on June 20, 2003, at 13:34:52
In reply to Re: alphalipoic acid » samplemethod, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2003, at 10:12:07
Lar,
Believe me its a real psychoactive feeling.
Its only happened twice though.Theres something going on... I remember some people from other boards telling the same story when they first tried it. But only with some.
Im puzzled, I really interested in what is goin on.
I will try some experiments on myself. I have tried 1000mcg of cyanocobalamin... something has changed but it isnt really a yummy chilled out feeling... I am still takin 200mg ALA with meals.
I know that biotin gets used up with ALA use and I have tried adding that to my regimen but it didnt seem to bring back that yummy feeling.
> > Lar,
> >
> > I don't think it was just ALA that made the psychoactive effects. I am thinking that ALA allows something to happen, a catalyst, or a rate limiting step synthesiser or something along those lines if you know what I mean.
> >
> > WHy i think this is that ALA doesnt always produce psychoactive effects and seems to run out of juice if you know what I mean. I reckon this is so cos it uses something up during the yummy psychoactive phase. ANd when I use it again closely afterwards it has nothing to act upon in the above mentioned sorta ways.
>
> Still, I can't think of anything that would have the immediate results you describe, and that would also be "used up".
>
> > You do know that ALA produces more glutathione right? do u know how much it prouces?
>
> I can only say there's a fairly linear dose-response. GSH activity increases proportional to ALA intake.
>
> > Also do u know if cyanocobalamin, or the other cobalamins (or the final active ingredient that they all go to), if they are stored up somewhat in the body?
>
> Yes, cobalamin is stored by the body, a unique characteristic among the B-vitamins. Cyanocobalamin is stored as cyanocobalamin, rather than as methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin. Cyanocobalamin is produced during the treatment of cyanide poisoning with hydroxycobalamin, and there is substantial urinary excretion, so I'd presume that ingested cyanocobalamin would also spill into urine.
>
> I've heard it said that healthy people have a five-year supply of B-12 in their liver, but the assumptions upon which that assertion is based are certainly arguable.
>
> Lar
Posted by johnj on June 20, 2003, at 17:03:01
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin vs Cyanocobalamin » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on June 20, 2003, at 12:18:36
Hi:
Hope both of you are doing well. I have only been able to follow this thread since I have been swamped at work and kind of settled into a mild depressed state. I think it has to do with the remeron. I get some good, but yet some bad effects. I bought some of the methylcobalamin and have taken it this week. I do find it has helped my severe lethargy in the morning??? Sleep has been inconsistent since my wife went on vacation out of the country, but that could be due to other factors.
Ron, I saw that you have taken Phosphatidylserine? I was interested in it since i talked about excercise recovery. Maybe this is what is happeneing when I work out? My cortisol just doesn't wind down. It is very expensive, but worth a shot. What do you think Larry? I may add some tyrosine too. I hope to get caught up on the babble this weekend. Take care you guys and thanks to all for great posts and links.
Peace
johnny
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 21, 2003, at 8:08:56
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry, posted by johnj on June 20, 2003, at 17:03:01
> Hi:
>
> Hope both of you are doing well. I have only been able to follow this thread since I have been swamped at work and kind of settled into a mild depressed state. I think it has to do with the remeron. I get some good, but yet some bad effects.Just using your posting frequency and content as an objective measure, you seem more balanced.
> I bought some of the methylcobalamin and have taken it this week. I do find it has helped my severe lethargy in the morning???
Make sure you take folate proportional to the B-12, mg for mg.
>Sleep has been inconsistent since my wife went on vacation out of the country, but that could be due to other factors.
Time of year is a factor for me.
> Ron, I saw that you have taken Phosphatidylserine? I was interested in it since i talked about excercise recovery. Maybe this is what is happeneing when I work out?PS has soothing effects for some people. Can't hurt you (except the wallet). For every 100 mg of PS, I'd also ingest one teaspoon of lecithin granules. That'll balance out the phospholipids.
>My cortisol just doesn't wind down. It is very expensive, but worth a shot. What do you think Larry?
Have you tried Ginkgo? It's supposed to suppress coritsol.
>I may add some tyrosine too. I hope to get caught up on the babble this weekend. Take care you guys and thanks to all for great posts and links.
>
> Peace
>
> johnnyKeep chuggin' along, buddy.
Take care,
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on June 21, 2003, at 12:01:04
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry, posted by johnj on June 20, 2003, at 17:03:01
Johnny,
> Ron, I saw that you have taken Phosphatidylserine? I was interested in it since i talked about excercise recovery. Maybe this is what is happeneing when I work out? My cortisol just doesn't wind down. It is very expensive, but worth a shot.
I've been taking PS for a few years and I deem it worthwhile. For me, the effect is not profound, but worthwhile.
Here is the brand I buy and the on-line store I buy it from. The shelf-life is 3 years, so I buy a 12-count case so as to reduce the price down to $0.32 per tablet (containing 100 mg of PS). Of course, you would want to try it before you start buying case lots of the stuff.
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/pssn100.html
Hope it helps with your cortisol issues, but as always, YMMV.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on June 21, 2003, at 12:18:32
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on June 21, 2003, at 8:08:56
John,
<Larry wrote to John>
> Just using your posting frequency and content as an objective measure, you seem more balanced.
<end of quote>
I agree with Lar's observation.-- Ron
Posted by johnj on June 22, 2003, at 13:38:16
In reply to Re: Johnny's Wellbeing » johnj » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on June 21, 2003, at 12:18:32
Thanks guys. I am trying like mad to keep my head above the water....and improve beyond that. Some setbacks are just that, temporary in nature. I hit a little low on remeron but instead of shifting everything I added B-12 in the morning(idea from Larry's post) and rode it out. Plus my wife got home last night :)
Peace guys and Thanks.johnny
Posted by johnj on June 22, 2003, at 13:43:58
In reply to Re: Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) » johnj, posted by Ron Hill on June 21, 2003, at 12:01:04
Thanks Ron,
I will buy some and try it. I will post something to Larry concerning his suggestion of lecthin with it. How is the niacinamide working? Hope all is well.
johnny
Posted by johnj on June 22, 2003, at 13:57:04
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on June 21, 2003, at 8:08:56
hi Larry,
I would like to pick your brain a bit on this subject. I really enjoyed the post concerning stress and have/will try some of the suggestions...one at a time.
<Make sure you take folate proportional to the B-12, mg for mg>Why is this? I was just going by the article and your suggestion has me intrigued. I bought 1000mcg of methyl take it before eating in the morning. The amount is said to be 16,000 times the daily recommendation. I hope I just pee out the rest? Would folate in that amount be bad? I take a B-complex too, but am wondering if I am getting too much. Would 2500 mcg/day of each be too much?
You also suggested lecthin. I tried that a few years ago and it messed with my sleep. Did the same to my brother. I have only seen detrimental info from Pfiffer's site regarding choline etc., for depression. Is it still ok to take the Phosphatidylserine? How should I take it? With meals or by itself? I was thinking of taking it before I do some lite excercise and see what happens, but I might start it a week or two before that just to get a gauge on how it feels.
Ginko. It made me spacey the few times I tried it. I have some, but am not sure if I should give it a try again or not.
Thanks Larry. When are you off again? Is the Enada and TMG still holding?
I was wondering how you solved the sleep issue. You mentioned taking a little remeron. Are you off it totally now?
johnj
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 23, 2003, at 8:22:34
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on June 22, 2003, at 13:57:04
> hi Larry,
>
> I would like to pick your brain a bit on this subject. I really enjoyed the post concerning stress and have/will try some of the suggestions...one at a time.
>
>
> <Make sure you take folate proportional to the B-12, mg for mg>
>
> Why is this? I was just going by the article and your suggestion has me intrigued. I bought 1000mcg of methyl take it before eating in the morning. The amount is said to be 16,000 times the daily recommendation. I hope I just pee out the rest?This is a mysterious thing to me.....intake at these high levels is considered perfectly safe.....your body does store B-12 (but certainly not all of it).....doses of the methyl form (the active form) are as high or higher than those of the less bioavailable cyano form.....
I am certain that your urine will be enriched in B-12. My plan is to use a bottle up, and then see what happens when I don't take it for a bit. If I notice a change in function, I'll restart it, and see if my function is restored. I'm going to seek a functional model for my own body's use of B-12. Numbers be damned (since it is considered safe anyway).
>Would folate in that amount be bad? I take a B-complex too, but am wondering if I am getting too much.
Folate and B-12 work together. That amount of folate is harmless.
>Would 2500 mcg/day of each be too much?
That might be a little high on the B-12. Some conservative authorities put a life-time (i.e. long-term) upper daily limit at 2 mg/day. Surely 32,000 times the daily intake level would be enough? <wink>
> You also suggested lecthin. I tried that a few years ago and it messed with my sleep. Did the same to my brother. I have only seen detrimental info from Pfiffer's site regarding choline etc., for depression. Is it still ok to take the Phosphatidylserine? How should I take it? With meals or by itself?Individual responses are the only important details, in the end. Recommendations by others are more like statistics. They don't apply to everybody, but which people they don't apply to cannot be predicted.
Take it with food.
>I was thinking of taking it before I do some lite excercise and see what happens, but I might start it a week or two before that just to get a gauge on how it feels.
That would be wiser, IMHO.
> Ginko. It made me spacey the few times I tried it. I have some, but am not sure if I should give it a try again or not.Try different doses. Space it out at first (every other day). Wait and see if the side effect passes. Don't bother. Lots of options, ya know?
> Thanks Larry. When are you off again? Is the Enada and TMG still holding?I've been having some weirdness lately, but I still think that's my drug withdrawal. &8%$!!!
> I was wondering how you solved the sleep issue. You mentioned taking a little remeron. Are you off it totally now?
>
> johnjYa, I'm totally off it. I took a 30 mg pill, cut it into quarters, and took each piece (largest to smallest) over about a week. It took care of much of the most prominent adverse effects of the withdrawal, but my sleep is still not back to where it was. I wake after no more than four hours, and then may or may not get any more sleep, sporadically, through the rest of the night. Still, it is improving, but slowly.
I'm probably going on the road tomorrow, and I'll only be around sporadically for the next six weeks or so.
Lar
Posted by johnj on June 23, 2003, at 9:14:54
In reply to Re: Methylcobalamin Ron and Larry » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on June 23, 2003, at 8:22:34
johnj
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 23, 2003, at 13:11:51
In reply to thanks and have a safe trip(s) (nfm), posted by johnj on June 23, 2003, at 9:14:54
Thanks, buddy.
The reason I'm not going until tomorrow is that Neil Young and Crazy Horse are playing tonight. I used to live less than a mile from the house Neil grew up in (where his dad still lives).
Dud-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, daah daah
Keep on rockin' in the free world!Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on June 23, 2003, at 13:46:18
In reply to Re: thanks and have a safe trip(s) (nfm) » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on June 23, 2003, at 13:11:51
Posted by Questionmark on June 24, 2003, at 2:09:01
In reply to Re: thanks and have a safe trip(s) (nfm) » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on June 23, 2003, at 13:11:51
> Thanks, buddy.
>
> The reason I'm not going until tomorrow is that Neil Young and Crazy Horse are playing tonight. I used to live less than a mile from the house Neil grew up in (where his dad still lives).
>
> Dud-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, daah daah
> Keep on rockin' in the free world!
>
> LarWow, that's so neat.
Neil Young is great.
Sorry, just wanted to say that.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 24, 2003, at 16:07:05
In reply to Neil Young, posted by Questionmark on June 24, 2003, at 2:09:01
> Wow, that's so neat.
> Neil Young is great.
> Sorry, just wanted to say that.OK, but I'd like further follow-ups not about medication to be redirected to PSB, thanks. :-)
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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