![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 19:09:46
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back » slugdoo, posted by LadyBug on August 6, 2007, at 15:54:15
I didn't write everything because it hard to think right now, but he did say he didn't care about me. He didn't think about me between sessions. And get this he told me there are some clients who he doesn't look forward to in seeing because of their anger torwards him or some teenagers that don't want to be there. He said that I wasn't one of those clients but still...
I am just shocked at today. He seemed to treat me so cruely and right now I don't want hear anyone defending him because I don't belive what he did was for my benefit. I am feeling worse, please don't justify him. I know the boundries, and I know he does't care about me like his wife an kid, but that fact is he said he DIDN"T care about me at all. If I died, it would be like "so what" .I need support right now, my heart is torn in two because I thought he did care, maybe the only one person who did, the person I turned to when I was feeling so bad, someone I could talk to about the sh*t inside and now that person is gone or maybe was just "fake" to begin with. It took me forever to trust him and now that is gone. I don't trust a word he says. Once he told me he was a great liar. Well I guess I should have listened. What a smuck I am.
Why do I fall for this? Why do I think people care when they don't, they cast me away, don't ever want to talk to me, treat me like I don't exhist? What is so f*cking wrong with me that people don't like me?
I feel like such a fool to believe in therapy and now therapy has messed me up more than I already was. What are they a bunch of fake Phd.s walking around getting paid big bucks to act like they care, but really clients mean nothing. I think he should win an academy award for his acting with me.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 6, 2007, at 19:21:14
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 19:09:46
Doo,
there is nothing unloveable or unlikeable about you. I think you have a great personality and an easy sense of humor. You really care about your family and your friends, and you really care about your T too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your heart, or your soul.I cannot make excuses for your T. He should be forced to make his own excuses and explain his actions. Leave him a voice mail where you read one of these posts (or all 3) to him. Tell him how much he has hurt you. If he doesn't care about you outside of your appointment time, then he is not doing his job.
You deserve his respect, his effort, and his sensitivity. That is NOT too much to ask.
And if you ask me, he's a liar, because he DOES think about you outside of the session. Remember when you didn't go to the healthclub for a while and he noticed your absence? What does THAT mean? hmm. I hope his test results were all goofy. hmmmph
-Ll
Posted by canadagirl on August 6, 2007, at 19:39:15
In reply to I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 15:01:42
Hi there just jumping in and you know what I think? I think (that old Shakespearean cliche) the man is protesting too much. I think he does care. Very much. He is obviously trying hard to convince you and maybe himself he doesn't.
Posted by sunnydays on August 6, 2007, at 20:31:52
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 19:09:46
I'm so sorry sd. I agree with whoever said that he was not telling the truth today. He should not have said any of what he said and he should apologize profusely. I don't believe he has been acting with you, though. I believe that today was a really bad day for him for some unknown reason, and he took it out on you.
Absolutely a huge apology is due to you from him. Many apologies.
sunnydays
Posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 20:39:38
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back » slugdoo, posted by canadagirl on August 6, 2007, at 19:39:15
I keep reading everyone responses, you all have some good stuff. I can't believe how much I am hurting right now, I mean it hurts so much, I just can't control that feeling because it got me very deeply. I still can't believe someone who I trusted so much and cared about said all of that. I just don't get it, I thought I knew him well. Last session he told me I didn't know his problems because therapy is about me. Well I can think of a few problems right now.
I asked him, in regard to if a patient dies, how can you just turn your emotions off like you do? Then he said kinda snooty that if I wanted to become a T I will have to do that. I said I didn't ask you that, I asked you how you do it. He said, it was simple I just didn't turned them on in the first place.
Okay I know a T needs to keep there emotions in check, but to never really care? Aren't we all humans? I told him that I care about him even if he is just my T , after all we are in this whole world together with each other.I keep going from being really hurt, to being so angry at him, and cursing myself to believe that he really cared and that I could feel safe with him. He is such a big jerk, it is hard to hate him right now, I want to , so I wouldn't care about him either, but I am not a cold hearted robot.
Will a new T take me on soon, even if I tell her I terminated therapy this week especially since I was with him for over 2 1/2 years? He gave me a list a while back for a friend of mine who was looking for a female T who does EMDR. I kept the list. Maybe I should call some tomorrow. I don't feel I can live with this pain alone, it is killing me. I don't know if I can ever trust him again. It is so hard to trust to begin with, and when someone hurts you, it is so hard for me to get past that. I just keep crying when I picture his face. It is so hard.
Posted by sunnydays on August 6, 2007, at 20:45:56
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 20:39:38
Is there any chance you would give him an opportunity to explain himself and apologize? It might be a good therapeutic opportunity to work through a conflict if you can manage it.
sunnydays
Posted by Maria01 on August 6, 2007, at 21:33:21
In reply to I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 15:01:42
I take a hard line with this, because my ex-T pretty much lost her cool and raised her voice on occaision.
Someone who truly cares for you on a personal or professional level would not have said those things to you in the manner in which he did.
Might be time to find a new T. He needs to know under no uncertain terms that what he said and how he said it was hurtful and unprofessional. I have a really low tolerance for that kind of behaviour, so I would terminate. It's up to you, but no therapy is worth it if it provokes this much misery.
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2007, at 21:34:35
In reply to I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 15:01:42
That is an unbelievable thing to say. My therapist can be a dolt at times, but I'm not sure even he would say that.
I'm not excusing him at all, because there is no excuse. But maybe his mind was deranged by whatever caused his upcoming EKG? Maybe he was angry about that and spewing nonsense. Or... How did the previous patient die? Maybe he's feeling really defensive about that. What he said sounded self protective almost.
Not that that's any excuse to hurt you. It isn't. It can't be. But people hurt each other. Even therapists. My therapist has hurt me badly lots of times, because I left myself open to him to be hurt.
It's not ok. Sometimes it just *is*.
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2007, at 21:50:20
In reply to Re: I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back » slugdoo, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2007, at 21:34:35
It's possible that his patient died of a heart attack and he is having heart problems hence the EKG. He may be scared as he's human too. Not to excuse yelling. Love Phillipa
Posted by JoniS on August 6, 2007, at 22:36:06
In reply to More, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 16:49:12
Doo,
I understand why you are hurting so much. If I had a session like that I'm sure I'd become a basket case. I am so sorry about that. One thing I want to say to you is please don't allow his mistakes to bring you down and take shots at yourself.
>
> I asked him if he didn't want to work with me anymore. He asked why I always think that? uggghhh!
>
> I know I am forgetting stuff, but I felt so unsafe, so judged by him. and a piece of crap.**** No, you are not a piece of -----****
>
> ... I said I sure didn't help you today and he said well you didn't hurt me either for Ekg.**** It's not your job to "help" him, it's HIS job to help you ****
>
> Then several hours later, I am what a complete
jerk!****** you are not a complete jerk ****
>
And now I can add him to the list of the people who don't care about me in my lifetime.
>*** like other babblers have already said, I don't believe that he doesn't care about you, even though he said what he did.....****
>I told him I will find out somebody else or I will just give up comletely on my problems.
**** dont give up just because HE screwed up Badly, dont punish yourself *****
>
> Icould I be so stupid to trust him?*** you are NOT stupid to trust him, that is how therapy works ****
Doo, Look at how hard you were on yourself over this and it's not your problem, it's his. Like others have said, he must have been having a bad day, BUT, there is no excusing how he was to you. The mistakes he made today don't make the past a lie, so don't tell yourself that. Hold on to the help you've gotten from the relationship.
If my T did this, I would definitely find another T, even if I received apologies. Imo, a professional does not act like this - several insensitive statements in one session, putting himself and his feelings before yours.
I am so sorry for your pain. I care very much for my T and I know he cares about me, even though it isn't like his family. It would be unbearable pain for me if he told me things like he wouldn't go to my funeral, raised his voice with no apology, made light of my crying. When I cry my T often hands me tissue. He explained that he does sometimes think of his clients outside T, he has feelings like I do, but he works hard to refrain from expressing them too much because he does not want to cause harm to me, t is about me, not T. My T is good about drawing boundaries, but he doesn't say hurtful, insensitive things when he draws them.
When you were on the phone was that with him, or was that a recorder? If you were on the phone with him, did he say anything?
I hope you find someone you can feel good with and trust and open up to. Hold on to the loving thoughts and cares from Babblers, and those you love. I wish you recovery and happier days. Be good to yourself!
((((((((((((sDoo))))))))))))
Posted by B2chica on August 7, 2007, at 7:57:59
In reply to Re: More » slugdoo, posted by Poet on August 6, 2007, at 19:03:06
(((((sluggy)))))))))
i am so sorry for your Terrible session...
i just can't believe how insensitive he was...i mean personally, given your history...did he not think that raising his voice to you might scare you?!
i REALLY like Poet's suggestion...i think that stating your name IS a really good attention getter. and works MUCH better with us.
now, hon, i want to make a comment about the funeral thing. i don't want to upset you...but i want to show you what he maybe meant. i work with clients that have in the past -past away, and because it can be terribly draining on a person you just can't allow yourself to go to client funerals...so i'm guessing that's what your T meant...
H O W E V E R!!!
i would NEVER in a million trillion years flat out to their face tell them that! i think that is Increadibly insensitive and quite frankly hurtful.
i've been invited on several occasions by spouses and just told them politely "i'll try to make it"...to be so cold as to say that is just...hurtful. i'm so sorry.
like you said, how are you supposed to open up to someone who blatently said he really doesn't care!
it's not much but take my warm hugs
(((((((sluggy)))))))))))
Posted by slugdoo on August 7, 2007, at 9:56:01
In reply to Re: More, posted by B2chica on August 7, 2007, at 7:57:59
I had a dream about this last night, I woke up thinking my session really didn't happen. But reality kicked in. I didn't get up until 10 am and normally I am up by 6 at least. So I got 12 hours of sleep, I am kinda amazed by that.
My heart hurts so freaking bad.You know my DH just called I told him what happened yesterday, and he actually called just now to check up on me. I am surprised because he hasn't done that in years. I told him I was going to do EMDR yesterday, so he knew the session would be a big one, but not in this way.
But you know what , I am actually worried about my T because I know of his heart problems, arthimica problems, well he tells me he is going for a EKG. So that means he is having problems again, and as mad as I at him, it worries me. BUt why should I? He is just my robot T who isn't real.
I never know he will call or not, he does if I tell him to, and when I don't say, he sometimes does anyways. But I don't want to talk to him because I don't think I can contain my anger or my tears. I really feel like telling him off. What a jerk he is, what a liar!In my phone call I even appolized for frusterating him, I really don't mean to do that. If he thinking am frusterating him, how does he think I feel myself, I frusterate myself even worse.
Can you believe I am doing nothing but crying? I feel so bad. I am sorry if I am repeating myself.As far as his client that died, they had diabeties and they were only 45. If it didnt matter, why did he tell me?
Uggg! Is angry/sad a feeling? Because that sure how it feels. I hope he felt the wacks that some of you have given him. I wish I could do that, but I just can't hurt anyone. Besides he probably doesn't FEEL anything anyways. and I thought I had that problem, well my T tops the cake, insensitive jerk he is. He can just "bite me" I think I know why his car is gold, because clients pee on it, that is why.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 7, 2007, at 12:13:40
In reply to I thought it was just a bad dream, posted by slugdoo on August 7, 2007, at 9:56:01
Doo,
I'm glad you were able to get some restorative sleep.I'm really hopeful for a good outcome from all of this, you want to know why? Well, first of all, you've stopped blaming some inner badness of YOURs for eliciting his unprofessional behavior. It was hard for me to read you beating up on yourself. This is one of those moments when it's really important to give ourselves some lovingkindness, some compassion that our soul is still loveable, however hurt it may be at that moment.
Second, there IS a logical explanation for his "losing it". You even recognize it yourself. His heart is giving him stress, whether he admits it to himself or not. He is frustrated and feels powerless about the state of his own health. Who wouldn't feel that way. You know how it is-- showing up for tests and appts and people subjecting your spine and neck to various rehabilitative treatments. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that he OWNS his body and is actually caring for it by doing the tests.
Finally, I know that you and T have been working on some heavy stuff for a long time. I know that you often see him out and about in the community, and therefore, I think he is in a very thinly disguised denial that he doesn't allow work to invade his private life.
My personal guess is that his heart doctor, or perhaps a self-help book has told him that he needs to limit the amount of stress he is exposed to, and to separate the stress he has at work and not allow it to infiltrate his family life. He's taken it a step further though, and is trying to turn his heart off at the end of each day at the office, thinking that this will be good for his health in the long run. What makes more sense to me is to develop other ways of relaxing, and refocusing one's attention on one's private life. Thinking about the positive aspects of the day's work. Remembering the client that made him smile that day, or the client that usually gives him a hard time being more receptive. That's what *I* would do, if I were a T, anyways.
He probably lost his temper with you because he felt that it was safe to do so after several years of working together. What he forgot is that you come to him with a vulnerable heart and you need his help to mend and strengthen yourself.
take care,
-Ll
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 7, 2007, at 13:31:42
In reply to I am so hurt, I told my T I am not coming back, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 15:01:42
Slugdoo!
All of this sounds awful, just awful. I can't blame you for NEVER wanting to see that man again.
I mean, I could sit here all day and make excuses and reasons for his behaviour - but at the end of the day, he is a professional and should be expected to act like one.
You have a right to be treated fairly and with dignity. I can only imagine how I would react if someone told me that if I died they wouldn't go to my funeral.
I've heard some bad therapy stories, and this is another one.
Good for you for thinking enough of yourself not to put up with that.
Good for you.
Natie
Posted by sunnydays on August 7, 2007, at 14:31:02
In reply to HOLY CRAP!!!!, posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 7, 2007, at 13:31:42
Why is everyone saying to never see him again? In almost any other profession in the world, people are allowed to have moments of being unprofessional, and as long as they apologize and sincerely work hard to recover from that, they are forgiven. Why shouldn't T's get the same grace? Yes, their job is more important than some, but they are only human. No matter how much training they have gone through, they can't be expected to be perfect, however much we would like them to be. If he doesn't apologize, that's a different story, but I really think if he seems remorseful and tries hard to work to gain her trust back, that sd could try to work this through with her T.
sunnydays
Posted by 10derheart on August 7, 2007, at 16:54:04
In reply to Re: I thought it was just a bad dream » slugdoo, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 7, 2007, at 12:13:40
Llupsie,
I think this is a brilliant theory, and so well-explained. You might really have something here. I especially liked this:
>>He's taken it a step further though, and is trying to turn his heart off at the end of each day at the office, thinking that this will be good for his health in the long run.<<
I'm so glad you wrote this post.
SD,
I've wanted to post but don't know what to say. I guess others have said most of the parts of what I'm thinking. Your first post made me feel ill reading it, I mean, from the sheer emotion conveyed as to how his words cut you :-( It felt like I was there and it was pretty bad. I think I would have not even been able to walk out of there unassisted. You are really more resiliant than you give yourself credit for, including in the face of this trusted, loved (yes, I think so) T. suddenly wounding you in such a blunt and unexpected way.
You are here. You posted. You read. You slept. You told DH about it. You are putting one foot in front of the other.
I'm so sorry. I won't defend him, but give some thought to Llurpsie's words. Sounds so very plausible to me. For an athletic, vibrant (sounds like from all you've posted here) reasonably healthy guy, he may be really feeling scared and out of control right now. That should NOT allow for such hurtful, and IMO, incorrect statements to you - NO WAY - but an explanation of his own humanity getting the better of his T-side, well, maybe it at least makes it seem less nasty and awful. He should have reserved that impulsive vulnerable stuff for his wife, but he messed up.
Don't know what else to say right now. I pray he'll rethink what happened and realize what he did and try to make it right, if you even want to hear it. (((SD)))
Posted by 10derheart on August 7, 2007, at 16:56:21
In reply to Re: HOLY CRAP!!!!, posted by sunnydays on August 7, 2007, at 14:31:02
I feel just that way, too, sunny, and you said it so eloquently :-)
Maybe it's the shock of reading how SD described the conversation that got to many posters? And when part of it is about something so inherently emotional and loaded as death and funerals, well, it's maybe quite triggering. I know I literally felt my stomach clench and had tears in my eyes when I read her initial post, knowing they have a special relationship as many here do with their Ts, as I do, as you do, to imagine hearing those sorts of cold-sounding things....:-(
All (civil) POVs are good here, I think. Outrage and anger and hurt validated, of course, yet also some empathy for a T. that *may* (we can't know, but are trying to give him the benefit...) be very much not himself right now, and SD was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I hope everyone keeps offering up all sorts of thoughts and ideas. That seems to be one thing so unique and supportive about this board.
Posted by slugdoo on August 7, 2007, at 17:29:24
In reply to Re: I thought it was just a bad dream, posted by 10derheart on August 7, 2007, at 16:54:04
Oh, Tender, I am sorry I got to you and others here, I was just trying to unload, I didn't realized how others would be affected by it, I don't want to hurt anyone. Should I have used a trigger? I didn't even think of that at the time I was so in shock.
I am sure his next appointment of seeing his heart doc. was effecting him with me, it happened before. Remember that? How that one time he was outright rude to me? He did appolize for that. He was worried because last time they took a tube down his nose and shocked his heart, and he was anxious that it could happen again.
So I wonder if that was the case this time. But I told him after we discussed this, DO NOT SCHEDULE ME before those kind of exams. He even told me that he thought he was okay, and didn't realize it was effecting his clients, and that he now know that it did. So why the hell did he do it again after I told him not to? I would rather have him cancel than be a total *ss during my appointment. I don't know if any of this is the case, but I just can't take that from him. It hurts to the core.
I have also been thinking that our relationship is getting to the point where it has blurred the lines of professional and friendship with stricter boundries. It did feel good, but I also see how it can really hurt me too. I love him very dearly and am grateful for all the good stuff he hashelped me doe, but now that relationship is hurting me, and I need to stop it. It is so hard because I freakin adore him so much. I hope my new T will work with me on this. I am going to tell him what happened, but I won't tell him who my (old T, that sounds weird ) is because they probably know each other. Plus this new T works in the same office as one of my professiors this semesters and last year.
This will be different kind of environment, my T had a secretary that he shared with lawyers on the same floor, this new T, is in an restored old house with lots of T's and a office staff. So it will take time getting used to. But you know what, my gut feeling is I did the right thing, even if it is killing me inside, but a small part of me is feeling relief today.
So I am sure he didn't tend to hurt me on purpose, he isn't that way, but he did, and too many times too, our relationship just got to friendly. I knew too much about him. I think I want to tell this new T, don't tell me anything unless I ask about yourself. Don't act like my friend either, and if you are attracted to me, refer me to someone else, okay. ;-)
Posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 22:56:44
In reply to More, posted by slugdoo on August 6, 2007, at 16:49:12
WOOO, slugdoo. First, you said your therapist said he does like you. Second, he did not say he doesn't care about you outside the sessions. He said he doesn't go around thinking about you all the time or the other people he sees. I realize it seems he must not care; I was where you are once upon a time. I also know that just because I did not go around thinking about patients after hours, it did not mean I didn't care. If a therapist went around thinking about patients 24-7, that therapist would soon be ineffective and unable to help. I know that must sound weird, but it is true.
Don't give up on your therapist yet. It sounds like it was too much for him to hit you with all at once--rather blunt. Sorry about that.
Oz
Posted by slugdoo on August 8, 2007, at 4:20:21
In reply to Re: More » slugdoo, posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 22:56:44
> WOOO, slugdoo. First, you said your therapist said he does like you. Second, he did not say he doesn't care about you outside the sessions.
He said he didn't
care about me period.
He said he doesn't go around thinking about you all the time or the other people he sees.
Well I know this and don't expect him to, I think you are totally misunderstanding my posts. I really don't think you know me or the situation very well so I will take it with a grain of salt as to what you said. Like I said I don't need hear anyone defending him right now. What he said was cruel and uncalled for and his behavior was unprofessional.Would you tell your "patients" that if they die you won't go to their funeral? (whether or not you do, but would you tell them that)
Would you tell them that you don't care about them whether in session or out of session? (whether or not you do, would you tell them that to their face especially after 2 1/2 years)
Would you make light of someone crying after you scared them and made you cry because they were scared of you? And how could anyone joke about someone crying for the 1st and 2nd times in the last 2 weeks of therapy of over 2 1/2 years span, where in their past history of childhood abuse would be tortured worse if they did cry and was taught NOT to cry for protection.
I don't feel there is any reason or justification of what he did. I am here for support of feeling hurt right now by what he said and did. I don't hink my T needs support right now, he isn't he one posting.
I realize it seems he must not care; I was where you are once upon a time. I also know that just because I did not go around thinking about patients after hours, it did not mean I didn't care. If a therapist went around thinking about patients 24-7, that therapist would soon be ineffective and unable to help. I know that must sound weird, but it is true.
>
> Don't give up on your therapist yet. It sounds like it was too much for him to hit you with all at once--rather blunt. Sorry about that.
>
> Oz
Posted by slugdoo on August 8, 2007, at 5:02:39
In reply to Re: More » OzLand, posted by slugdoo on August 8, 2007, at 4:20:21
I didn't mean to be snippy with you, I am just not in the best of places right now, and shouldn't have said what I said to you.
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 8, 2007, at 7:59:15
In reply to Re: HOLY CRAP!!!!, posted by sunnydays on August 7, 2007, at 14:31:02
While I may disagree with your position in this particular case, I think you bring up a good overall point:
When DO we cut our therapist some slack vs when DO we seek help elsewhere?
It's a tough call no doubt.
Especially because there are usually a lot of reasons to stay (time with T, knowledge of history, having to start over w/someone else, financial reasons etc...).
Now add to that, there may be some significant "transference" issues, issues of trust, and resistance issues on our part and sometimes it is really hard to see clearly the right thing to do.
In my therapy, there are times when my T has screwed up royally, we worked through it and we were able to continue our work. Sometimes the decisions he made to push my progress set me back a good bit.
However, one thing he never has done was to bring his own personal issues into my therapy space. In my mind, that would have been absolutely toxic to my recovery and grounds for termination.
I think we have to be able to trust that our therapist will remain as neutral as they possibly can be. We need their decisions about our therapy to be based on their professional competence and experience rather than their personal issues.
For instance, in my fourth year of therapy, my T's mother died. I had no idea until another client told me weeks later about having read the obituary.
Now I have some god awful mother issues and despite what he must have been going though, he didn't even bring it up or into my time.
I think we have a right to expect this level of professionalism, but I am interested in other's thoughts on the matter.
Natie
Posted by Dinah on August 8, 2007, at 8:58:01
In reply to When to stay, and when to move on » sunnydays, posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 8, 2007, at 7:59:15
I think needs vary a lot between clients, so it would be hard to judge. My therapist got into the habit of briefly disclosing because I was too good at picking up his mood, and blaming myself. Boundaries got shifted more during the post Katrina period where he really wasn't doing very well, but I really didn't want to stop seeing him. They're closer now to what they used to be, but I'm not sure they can ever really go all the way back. The important boundaries he keeps though. And if he didn't, I would.
I'm not sure at this point in my therapy that there is anything my therapist could do that would make me stop seeing him. Except perhaps to not be himself for a long period of time. I came close to it before he moved back, because every time I went, he wasn't really there. He didn't feel like himself, and stopping seeing him would have just been formalizing what had already happened. I think at this point, except for that, stopping seeing him would have to come on my end, because I didn't think I needed it any longer. Anything else I'd stay and fight through.
I'm not saying it's right. Or best. Not even for me and certainly not for anyone else. But it's kind of who I am.
Posted by sunnydays on August 8, 2007, at 9:12:45
In reply to When to stay, and when to move on » sunnydays, posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 8, 2007, at 7:59:15
I agree that T's should not bring their issues into the room. I do think that sometimes that can be difficult, however. I am reminded of when my T was seriously injured and called me when he was feeling sick from the pain meds. I felt so horrible that he would think he needed to call me when he felt like that (he had to hang up after about a minute because he felt like he was going to throw up). But at the same time, it really showed that he cared about me and understood that I would be really scared he was dead or something.
My T discloses quite a bit to me, but that is because I wouldn't trust him if I didn't know quite a bit about him. I think there probably have been times where his personal issues have affected him. And there have certainly been times I was ready to quit because he said something that I interpreted as meaning that I was too difficult or that he hated me. When he explained it later, it became clear that he really hadn't meant it like that, even though that's how it sounded. One time he made a sarcastic comment at a really bad moment, but he basically spent the session apologizing (I thought he was going to cry). He was explaining that sometimes when he does that I smile and that he was just trying to make me feel a little better by bringing in some humor, but obviously it backfired totally. He did so well that session with the apologizing, that I felt more trusting of him than I ever had before after that. That's why I'm such an advocate of giving a T at least one chance to make things better. I was ready to not go back after that comment, but by giving him that chance it totally changed my therapy for the better.
sunnydays
Posted by frida on August 8, 2007, at 12:28:24
In reply to When to stay, and when to move on » sunnydays, posted by Nathan_Arizona on August 8, 2007, at 7:59:15
hi..
I've read Doo's situation and I would be so devastated if my T said that to me. It's such a hurtful thing to say...and it seems to me that he was kind of...protecting himself, but not speaking truth...
It's hard :-( I'm sorry Doo that this happened. I would be devastated.
As to when to say or when to move on...
I have to agree with Dinah, but that's just who I am too. I try to fight till the end.
My T has disclosed quite a bit to me too, and it has helped strengthen the bond between us and it helped me see her more human and trust her more. She has modelled to me how to share (It's really hard for me to talk from my heart) and has shared very personal things that I value a lot. (about her childhood, past). I feel she cares and she's proven that to me. I know she thinks of me sometimes outside sessions and sometimes tells me about a movie, book, little child that has reminded her of me or something we've talked about...
But we've had really hard moments too and have had to work through them...
I think the only thing that would make me stop going would be if she says and means it that she doesn't care about me or that I'm bad or something like that....
We've had some rough times...Once she gave me an ultimatum that if I didn't talk she couldn't help me and I'd have to stop seeing her. It was bad for me to feel threatened and I felt really scared. I know now that when she says these things she just tries to make me react and come out of my isolation, even if it doesn't work.
She has encouraged me to express my anger towards her or to disagree and fight back.There have been times when her personal issues have influenced our sessions, but she has always been open and I prefer that.
For example, once I was in the elevator going to see her, and she was obviously nervous and was going to leave me a note and had to cancel our session just like that. I felt lost...but later she explained that her mother was sick and she had been called because of an emergency. (her mother died some months after that moment)
And other times she has been "absent" or not totally herself and I've noticed and she has briefly told me when something happened.She has also made mistakes and has said painful things to me which made me feel really, really bad..moments in which I wished I hadn't had a session because it just made it all wrong. But somehow we've worked through those difficulties, and re-built trust. Sometimes I've felt that it was impossible but we've managed.
I've seen my T for 7 years...and I feel grateful for the times she has disclosed something about herself...It has helped and made me trust her more.
So, I guess I'd try to fight for the relationship, but the only thing that would hold me back is if I felt she didn't care. I'd give her a chance to explain and apologize if she did something that hurt me and felt cruel. I would at least hear what she has to say.
I'm not saying this is the right thing to do...just what I feel.
Having said all this, hearing my T say that she wouldn't come to my funeral if I died, would be totally devastating. I'd expect her to have an explanation and apologize and explain why she said such a hurtful, cruel thing and destroy the trust that took so long to build.
I am sorry this happened.
Frida
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