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Re: This was a rhetorical question everyone » SLS

Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 12:29:09

In reply to Re: This was a rhetorical question everyone » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on November 7, 2005, at 8:58:13

> More and more evidence is accumulating that genetics represent a contributory factor in the expression of alcoholism.

I never denied that. Thats what I meant when I said that there was indeed a heritability componant with respect to addictive behaviours. (I'd prefer to stick with 'drinking behaviours' or 'addictive behaviours' terminology because that leaves the CAUSE of the behaviour (ie the relative contributions of nature / nurture open to debate rather than building in the ASSUMPTION that nature is the most significant component).

>I have never stated or inferred that genes were the sole determinant in the evolution of alcoholism in any given individual or sociological group.

Right. That is just as well because if you were to claim that then that would be false. I mean... Surely there has to be the environmental componant of the substance being AVAILABLE in the persons environment at the very least ;-)

>... twin studies have shown that alcoholism is heritable.

Twin studies have shown that addictive behaviour HAS A HERITABLE COMPONANT. There is a difference. It might sound picky but it is the difference between having the heritable componant thus HAVING to display the addictive behaviour, versus having the heritable componant thus BEING MORE LIKELY to display the addictive behaviour. If you are the person with that heritable componant... That is a very big difference indeed...

> Native Americans also have a genetic predisposition towards diabetes. On average, Native Americans are more than twice as likely to have diabetes as non-Hispanic whites of similar age. One tribe in Arizona has the highest rate of diabetes in the world. About 50% of these adults between the ages of 30 and 64 have diabetes.

Right then. Do you want to talk about the contribution of the environment there too? Tell me about their diet and their exercise... Once again... Heritable componant...

> Any focus on the predisposition of one population over another towards disease is important to identify. It serves to understand and treat disease; prevention being the goal. I could identify such conditions for populations all over the world. Why is bipolar disorder so prevalent in Amish populations? Diseases are not racist. Only people are.

My issue is that the main focus on differences between different ethnic / racial / cultural groups seems to be to focus on biological differences. One fairly good example of this is intelligence. The bell curve. That was a study on how intelligence seemed to be heritable. It ended up 'ranking' the 'inherited intelligence' for different ethnic groups. There is nothing wrong with such a study. The danger comes in focusing on biology so much that environmental factors aren't investigated or aren't emphasised, or are simply passed over.

The data in itself isn't racist. You are right about that. The difficulty comes when we appreciate that people interpret the data and people discuss the significance of their findings. The bell curve... Was used as justification for providing less education to african-american kids. They were thought to be innately less intelligent than white kids. The bell curve study showed that to be so... Or so it was thought. That is just one example of the dangers that come from the over-focus on biology to the point where environmental factors are passed over. I do believe... It took some guy from Wellington (New Zealand) to dispense with the bell curve conclusions...
;-)

The utility of focusing more on biology than providing a more balanced treatment of the contribution of various kinds of environmental factors may actually turn out to be something that hinders our understanding and ability to understand and treat various things. What good does it do me to know that I have inherited a disposition (because there is a heritable COMPONANT it is not determined exclusively by biology)? That is something that is outside my power to change. I can't change my biology. I can however... Change my behaviour. And my environment can be changed. Other people can help me with that. And I can take things into my own hands too. I mean... If you want to stop drinking too much a good first step would probably be to rearrange your environment so there isn't any alchohol in the house...

Or maybe you think we will be able to screen embryos for this heritability componant? Remember... It just increases the liklihood... And I would say... It increases the liklihood most significantly when certain environmental factors are met.

> For some people, it is an insatiable craving for the chemical itself that drives their decision making process. The cravings are libidinal, not cerebral.

Right.

> Sorrows have nothing to do with it.

?
They don't tend to make the cravings worse?
I remember hearing this. HALT. Don't get Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired. Those were supposed to be things that... made the 'libidinal cravings' worse. Made one less likely to resist them in the face of knowledge of the long term harm. Trouble with this analysis is that... Those things just are part of the human condition and I don't know how helpful it would be to try and arrange things so you never felt those feelings. I don't think that would be possible. What may well be possible, however, is that the knowledge that the cravings get worse under those circumstances (and knowledge that the cravings will pass) well, that might be what helps give you the strength to resist them...

> What differences must lie between the two people who choose different ways to address the same sorrows?

> Is it genetic?

> I guess it ain't that simple.

Yeah. Not nature OR nuture...
Nature AND nurture...

And there it is.

:-)

 

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