Posted by SLS on June 13, 2005, at 8:27:16 [reposted on June 14, 2005, at 22:17:35 | original URL]
In reply to Re: Exercise for severe depression, posted by linkadge on June 12, 2005, at 19:19:29
> Unfortunately it is only vigorous aerobic exercise that has been shown to have any use in severe depression.
I've been there, man. I've been there. I put in more time than the rats studied.
> One rat study showed that only after 3 weeks of daily wheel running did a significant reduction in the expression of inhibitory serotonin autoreceptors occur.I think it is important to separate out pure research from clinical research. The BDNF is nice and all, but if people in real life don't respond to a stimulus, they just don't respond. We both know how incredibly complex the body is. Looking at one physiological process and trying to extrapolate that to the entirety neglects the gestault and emergent properties.
I think the potential for exercise to produce dramatic improvements in mood is dependent on the physiology of the mood illness itself and not on the generic presentation of what people label as depression.
> There are *many* studies that have shown a possative link, and not just small studies.> (ie pay no attention to synical people :) )
It seems that we both need to learn how to spell that word properly. :-)
> It is really an instinctual reaction to become defensive when exercise is suggested. It seems, sometimes to point the finger back at us, and try to blame our depression on some kind character flaw or personal weakness.
This was one of the more important points I made in my last post. It is sabotage to believe that if exercise doesn't work, it is because we are not working hard enough and are thus lazy and inadequate.
> If you believe, like me, that depression is a whole brain disease,
Exactly! Please see above.
> ...the neuroprotective and neurorestorative effects of exercise far exceed that of any pharmacudical.
Perhaps (I question this), but even so, since when are neuroprotection and neurotrophism putative mechanisms by which antidepressant exert their therapeutic effects - or even exercise? They are not.
> Ie, we have almost no drugs that enhance GDNF (glial derived neurotrophic factor) not even lithium, but exercise doubles it quite nicely.
Exercise doesn't work for the majority of people posting here. It is as simple as that. In this population, empirically, excercise does very little to treat "severe" depression. It serves no purpose to declare otherwise.
By all means, exercise! For some people who are depressed, it will work wonders. I just don't know if we should be so optimistic for people who suffer with true MMD and BP.
The study you cited on the Hedonistic Imperative website fails to demonstrate cause and effect. The more depressed a person is, the less intense will be the exercise they perform. Bad study. It is retrospective and not prospective and without controls.
Don't confuse cynicism with scrutiny.
- Scott
poster:SLS
thread:512835
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/health/20050411/msgs/512846.html