Posted by Larry Hoover on August 20, 2004, at 7:46:02
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on August 19, 2004, at 15:22:08
> > Dear Desperate in LA,
I thought that was worthy of note. :-(
> > > This long, long post has come full circle now (back to the original topic) and is still going strong. I wonder if it's one of the longest ever on Psycho-Babble. I think there should be prizes for such an accomplishment. (How about it, Dr. Bob?)
> >
> > Not even close, Kara.
>
> Oh well, it was worth a try!It may well be the longest on this board, though. Better a big frog in a smaller pond.
> >
> > > Please, Don Pardo, tell us what we've won!
> >
> > Free advice! May be worht what you pay for it!
>
>
> So far it's been worth much more than that!!!I am glad it works like that.
> > > But seriously now, I am struggling here to get the motivation and the focus to work on a spreadsheet for my temp job. I'm embarrassed that it's taking so long but I'm having the hardest time doing it.
> >
> > Too busy on the Internet?
>
> That's definitely part of it.I hope you acknowledge the value of the social interaction, knowledge acquisition, simply being paid attention. When I do that, it's easier to move away and attend to other matters which I value (like sleep, doing the dishes, etc.). It seems that when I'm being negative about my Internet activity, that I am most drawn to it.
> > > You can't just start taking handfuls of stuff, blindly. Even Pall had a dosing schedule, that added stuff over time. I gotta find those private emails....
>
> I know - It's just that there were so many things that were recommended and I wanted to figure out, which would be the most likely to help me given limited resources. Unfortunately I'm trying to find answers to depression, adrenal fatigue and concentration problems all at once so what I'm asking for is fairly unreasonable. But then you're "Hoover, Larry Hoover."Yes, so I am. Thank goodness it's sewn into the edge of my socks. Otherwise, I forget.
> BTW, the Pall article i read was more geared towards Alzheimers but definitely some overlap for my purposes. When you corresponded with him was it specifically about adrenal fatigue?Pall has been studying neurodegenerative processes for years. It doesn't surprise me that he's looking at Alzheimer's, but I knew him from his work on chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia.
His faculty website is still not working. :-/ (that's a grumpy face, Kara)
However, some of his work is available elsewhere.
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2003/5935/5935.html
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/ID/4393/e/1/T/CFIDS_FM/
Here's one based on his work:
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/6-5/chronic_fatigue_syndrome.pdfDon't be worried about whether Multiple Chemical Sensitivity applies to you or not. The underlying biochemistry is the same. It just expresses itself differently in different people.
> > > Larry, if you were in my situation and you had limited funds, which of the following would you choose to take for motivation, focus and adrenal fatigue?
> > >
> > > Ginkgo (yes)
> > > SJW (Jarrow formula - no more Perika) (if depressed too)
> > > selegiline (don't know. probbly. metabolizes to amphetamine)
>
> Yes it does but it's probably the best shot I have of helping my depression and the concentration problems. Horrible for adrenal fatigue though? I'd be taking it in only 5 mg. dosage and with DLPA?I really don't know (about low-dose selegiline being an adrenal stressor). If you support your adrenals with the appropriate nutrients, I think you can manage things all right. You need your adrenals to work right, no matter what course of action is restorative.
> > > DLPA (yes)
> > > tyrosine (probbly)
> > > TMG and B12 (yes, to both)
> > > Enada NADH (if other stuff didn't work first)
> > > green tea extract (dunno)
> > > picamilon (dunno....probbly sedating)
>
> It's supposed to be energizing in larger doses but I haven't tried it that way yet.If it is, I bet it's from the B-vitamin, not the GABA.
> > > Coenzyme Q10 (yes)
> > > ALA (alphalipoic acid? definitely)Extra emphasis on this, as mitochondrial protectant.
> > > NAC (not sure...forget)
>
> Neuroprotective. Good to take with selegiline for the amphetamine metabolites even though selegiline is also neuroprotective.I knew it was liver protective. Makes sense it would be neuroprotective.
> > > DMAE (dunno)
> > > ALC (if it's cheap)
> > > phosphatydlserine (probbly sedating, might help with tension)
>
> I think it was in the adrenal fatigue article you recommended to me to take 800 mg. of this per day. That would be about one month's income for me. I can't even begin to imagine ... I just wonder if it's worth taking it at all.Articles are suggestive to me, never definitive. I have never seen another recommendation to take that much phosphatidylserine, ever. PS is also a neurotransmitter. I would never take that much.
> Are you familiar with the controversy over it's effectiveness now that it is made from soy rather than derived from cows?
Soya lecithin is a good source of the three other phosphatides: phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylinositol, and phosphatidylethanolamine. You'll note that the chemical names reflect their structure. They contain choline, inositol and ethanolamine, respectively. The missing one of the soy-based tetrad is phosphatidylserine. They chemically switch one or another of the add-on bits to serine, and you get phosphatidlyserine.
> Supposedly the chemical structure is not the same as it was. Dr. Sahelian thinks it's effectiveness now is questionable and he says it's not worth the expense for something that may not be doing anything for you. What do you think?
The synthetic and natural versions of PS are the same, or one or the other isn't PS. PS molecules don't come with little notes from their mother, attesting to bloodlines.
The only possible benefit of natural source materials is that they may be impure. It happens that some of the impurities are natural cofactors for the target nutrient, so it's more like taking a multivitamin instead of a single nutrient. That is an accidental effect, and is not due to chemical differences in the nutrient itself.
"Natural source" vitamin C happens to come with other impurities (what are called co-extractives), such as bioflavinoids. People had better results from natural vitamin C because they got other active chemicals, not because the vitamin C was better.
Synthetic nutrients are generally very pure, because chemists are working with very pure chemicals as a matter of course.
> > > piracetam or pramiracetam (dunno)
> > > hydergine (dunno)
> > > centrophenoxine (really dunno)
>
> Have you tried any of these so-called "smart drugs"?No. Couldn't afford them. And, I'm not even sure if they're even legal to import to Canada. I just never looked at them, in depth.
> > > digestive enzymes (yes)
> > > quercetin/bromelain (I know it overlaps but I
> > > already have some of this at home.) (for sure, then)
> > > licorice and/or other adaptogen (Licorice isn't an adaptogen. It rests the adrenals, but is only for short-term use. Adaptogens are the ginsengs, for example)
>
> ok. I'm probably going to start on the adaptogen maca again. I also have at home Eleuthero. I could only tolerate it in samll amounts. Wonder if it's worth adding that in those small amounts.I find Siberian ginseng helpful, as you say, in smallish amounts.
> I had read somewhere that it's not good if you have hypoglycemia but then I read somewhere else that it's particularly good for hypoglycemia. ARRRGGGGHHH. I have a feeling that regular Ginseng is the one not good for hypoglycemia. So hard to know who is right when you read conflicting things like that.
Oh, I know that. Such is the nature of the beast. There are many many pseudo-scientists and poseurs in the alternative field.
> I may try Ashwagandha later on after my four months on the maca but I think it's sedating rather than energizing, correct?
It was a strange mix of both, for me, if I recall correctly. Messed with my sleep.
> > > green drink (with tons of antioxidants) (sure, why not)
>
> Maybe I'll try that for one month. It has a small amount of licorice (50 mg.) in it. Have you ever tried a green drink? Are they too disgusting tasting or what?I'm just trying Greens capsules. Can't taste those. Might help, can't hurt, is my attitude.
That amount of licorice is trivial. I wonder why companies add in those little bits of this and that? <shrug>
> > > probiotics (Enzymatic Therapy pearls) (if you got 'em)
> > >
> > > I'm going to add exercise and and some cognitive therapy (jouraling).
>
> > Good ideas.
>
>
> That was suuposed to be "journaling".Really? ;-) (that's a wink)
> Trouble is I need some help with motivation to even do those things. Such a vicious circle!
That's where the patience comes in, Kara. You have to push sensibly. I look at each day, the demands for that day, and my energy budget. I have to balance the energy books for that day. If I have to dip into "savings", my energy reserves, I have to recognize the risk involved (i.e. future opportunities for doing so). If I run the account into the red, I fall down, go boom.
> > > It's not my thyroid. I'm on the right amount of hormone for that.
> >
> > Some people don't do well with synthetic thyroid hormones, despite blood work saying they should be fine. That's why some people swear by Armour.
>
> I've done a lot of research on thryoid problems including the about.com site and Mary Shomon's books as well as several other books. I agree and I usually take Armour.OK. Just making sure.
> > > I've probably forgotten a bunch of things. Keep in mind that I already have at home now quite a bit of DMAE, selegiline, Jarrow SJW, NAC, tyrosine, B12, quercetin/bromelain, Enzymatic Therapy Pearls, maca and a little bit of ALC, ALA and picamilon.
> >
> > Well, you already invested in those, eh?
>
> Yes, but just because they're here doesn't mean that they're good for my situation now.Indeed.
> > > I know that it's impossible to give me a quick answer that's going to take away all of my depression and functionality problems - but I want one nonetheless.
> >
> > I think I done OK.
>
> You done good. You always do!I don't like black and white thinking (I'm not *always* anything). I appreciate the sentiment, very much, nonetheless.
> > Patience. You didn't get sick in one day.....
> >
> > Lar
>
> I know but I do have to become functional soon. I'm running out of money. I think from your responses, though, that I'm further along in deciding a program to start with now. I have a few more things to think through. Then I'll start on it (and add on and change things as the experiment develops).Excellent!
> How about YOU? How are you doing? Hopefully the vacation was good for you.
Yes, it was. I know that I can sleep better, in a quiet environment. My own is noisy, and with the physical contrast between the two circumstances, I now know that I either have to move (I hate moving), or find a way to block the noise. I just sent away for a white noise generator. We'll see if that helps.
Otherwise, I feel rather robust. It's good to have me back. Thanks for asking.
> Have any of your tests come back yet?
MRI results next week. Bone marrow biopsy cancelled (not needed, after all). The latter would have happened yesterday, and it was cancelled on Monday. I wasn't looking forward to that one.
> - Concerned in LA:-) Got me!
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040815/msgs/379826.html