Posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2003, at 9:28:23
In reply to Re: Sleep Problems, Ron » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on December 14, 2003, at 14:55:50
> HI Larry (and Ron too)
>
> Just got back on and read the thread between you two. I hope you both are doing well and we all find our healing path. Sometimes despair is so great.
>
> larry, well it seems you and I are in the same boat as far as the sleep things goes. I have struggled trying to find something for the last 2.5 years.
>
> I have been away for awhile and for the last 9 weeks have been waiting to do my sleep study. I did it last week and the results, or lack thereof, were almost devastating. I expected something and the only thing I had was a lack of deep sleep,not caused by sleep apnea. I had hoped for some dx and there was none. The only thing that keeps me going is the remeron giving me kind of a "who cares attitude". I seem to have to numb myself to stay functional.Actually, that is a finding. If you're not getting into stage 3 and 4 sleep, you're not getting restorative sleep. And, you won't be releasing hGh and other control hormones, so your whole endocrine system gets out of whack. For people with that pattern, benzos like Restoril (tenazepam) can actually increase deep sleep, whereas they decrease it in normal people.
> When I added 15mg of remeron last spring and started using a mouth guard since I grind my teeth(I probably mentioned it before). But, I lost the mouth guard and slowly started to feel worse, hence the doc thinking I had apnea. For about two months I was yawning naturally and sleeping through my alarm. Everythin took a dive when I lost my mouth guard. So the dentist made me a new one, different style, and it gave me so much tension in my forehead.
Then it doesn't fit right. You should get him to replace it, or try to match the one you lost.
> The excercise still makes my insomnia worse, just not that day it happens a day or so later. I think the lack of deep sleep is what hurts me. My body is repairing itself. The one non-drug, supplement thing I long for eludes me still. The fatigue and muscle loss concern me a great deal.One of the effects of prolonged sleep deprivation is decline in testosterone (in males). You should get your bioavailable testosterone level measured. The results may surprise you. You may also want to complete a short questionnaire called ADAM.
http://www.conturo.com/be_core/content/journals/u/data/2003/0401/adam1.html
It identifies a symptom cluster presumptive of testosterone deficiency, not necessarily restricted to the aging effect.
> All I get from the docs are "excercise will help". Well it used to but not anymore. It is tough to know what to do.
There is a concept applied in exercise for e.g. chronic fatigue sufferers....the finger pattern. If you look at your hand, it's finger space finger space....if you exercise one day, take the next day off. If you exercise two days, take two days off. This lets your body get the rest it needs. Also, you may be exercising to exhaustion without realizing it. Don't compare your exercise level to others. Just because other people do two hours a day does not mean it's appropriate for you to do so. Cut back by a third, and see if that helps.
> I sometimes think maybe paxil could help the anxiety/gad, but ssri's scare me and cymbalta is still a know show.
>
> Larry, is your PTSD causing you anxiety and hence insomnia?I see my PTSD in terms of a symptom cluster. Insomnia is also associated with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, and I have symptoms of all three. I don't separate them, though doctors might.
I have low grade anxiety all the time, but that is inseparable from the effects of the insomnia, IMHO. If my insomnia remits, so does the anxiety. My symptoms wax and wane together, pretty consistently.
> I seem to "sleep" 7 hours, but wake up bushed.
That's the lack of stage 3 and 4 sleep.
> I also have funny eye twitches, and muscle twitches from lack of sleep. Lack of sleep takes it toll. Have you tried a low dose of remeron?
Not low dose. It made me impotent (which I will not accept), so I ditched it. I've got some left (30 mg tabs).....hmmmmm.
> I know you tried it in the past, but at what dose?
My episodic memory sucks....I don't remember for sure, but I think I started at 30, and went to 45 after two weeks. My declarative memory is still good, but episodic memory is a real problem for me.
> At least I get to sleep it just isn't as restorative as I need. I also take lithobid and tranzene(which the doc thinks) might mess up my deep sleep.
It does in some people.
> Take care of yourself and hopefully I will have the energy to keep looking. My wife is not handling things very well and I sometimes wonder if she will leave. I wouldn't blame her as the meds make me intolerable and grumpy and short tempered. Thanks to remeron my sex drive has diminished to almost nothing.
At low dose? Darn. There goes that idea.
> Peace to you both, and may a miracle find us all.
>
> johnjThanks john.
And for the record, zyprexa is unacceptable for me. It is activating me after four days.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:286464
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031204/msgs/290458.html