Posted by muffled on December 21, 2010, at 13:32:04
In reply to Re: some kind of Community Council, posted by Dr. Bob on December 21, 2010, at 12:31:07
> > I don't understand it, the formula, I just don't.
> > I like things simple...
> >
> > muffled
>
> Sigh is right!
>
> 1. Blocks are shorter. The idea of the formula is to take into account "periods of good behaviour":
> Taking that into account did make the formula more complicated. I tried to make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. :-)*Sometimes simple is best. Then its clear and understandable to all.
> 2. And there are fewer blocks now:*Indeed fewer blocks. I agree. But the fear :(, the main prob is twofold. The length is still too long(and the formula confusing). And, ugh, my brain is in low gear...and I guess a combo of the inexplicablness of them combined with the shock factor at being upbraided for something one does not even understand...and others don't either. THAT is where the anger comes in FYI....
> Regarding the council:
> This is something new, so it's hard for any of us to know what exactly we're getting into. I'm glad we're thinking it through to clarify as much as possible beforehand. I'd be happy to chat with candidates. Or to set up a chat for just candidates. The first election will be the hardest because there's more uncertainty and therefore more anxiety. After the council's in place and things are working, what being a council member entails will be clearer. The first council would be pioneers.*Oh God...PIONEERS!!! OMG!!! My inner child DANCES!!! she LOVES PIONEERS!!! OMG OMG!!! Ok....I digress LOL!
*Well FWIW I have been closely connected w/elections before, and I gotta tell those of you who choose to 'run', that seriously, it's no big deal really. Its win-win. Cuz if you don't get elected, you can breathe a big sigh of releif!!!! If you do...well, then there's that sinking feeling of'what did I get myself into????', ah...LOL, and an ego boost on the side LOL! But seriously, don't let it freak you out, elections are no big deal. Campaigning is NOT requiered. I was thinking maybe candidates could post a short post on a 'candidates' thread about why they are willing to do this job, and thats enuf.
I think a 'possible' candidates chat might be nice IMHO, but should be only open to those seriously considering to stand forward.
> Regarding "things like committee meetings", that's a good point, council members may find it a challenge to work with each other. We see that in other elected bodies. One issue they might (or might not) want to decide is whether to insist on civility to each other.* that above is so VERY Bob....you *are* consistant LOL!
I think they can sort that out for themselves...
> Speaking of civility, another issue might be what to do if a council member receives a block and asks for it to be lifted. In addition to a mailing list that includes all of them, they might want ad hoc mailing lists that include only some of them.*OK, you have lost me here....first one is obvo, it would take a majority of 3 to get that block lifted.
If members want to speak privately they can b-mail. Beyond that...it's just getting over complicated again...
> My inclination would be for them to decide internal matters like they decide about lifting blocks: with a quorum of 3 and majority rule.*To me that sounds reasonable as it's not always going to be possible to have everyone around all of the time. But again, that could be hashed out as 'details' for council to consider.
> > So Dr. Bob has specifically agreed he will grant all Council members access to the admin (software) tools the deputies had/have access to? Since that is the only way to "release" a block without waiting for him?
> I could implement a new system for them, but probably I'd confirm that they followed their procedures (had a quorum, voted, and posted their votes and decision) and then do any unblocking myself.*Well, Bob, once you have developed some trust in your council, probably you may well feel you could ease up some. My concern being that you are often not around...
> > I hate to sound like SUCH a negative pain here....but Bob is a friggin ROCK I say. Trying to make him chnge is like trying to chip away at a rock with a rubber mallet.
> > All I am seeing is alot of reluctance on Bobs part
> >
> > muffled
>
> You can catch more flies with honey than with a mallet. :-)*You WILL note that I DID say a *rubber* mallet???? I WAS being nice!! ;-)
> > This all sounds very promising. I would agree - if we get a Council with the power to modify blocks of cooperative posters who ask, that should give us what we need. Possibly, if that works well, the very long blocks, and the formula that determines them, may become obsolete. Bob might develop confidence in the workings of the Council, and gradually allow the older way of doing things to lapse. We can't be sure, of course, but effective change probably means choosing the most important thing, getting that in place, and then seeing other aspects of the situation change and adapt.
> >
> > twinleaf
>
> That's the idea, thank you for seeing and expressing it.*yep, well said.
> > I think its very commonly very hard for people to 'ask' for stuff. For parts of me to 'ask' is to expect to have something bad happen to me. I don't think I am alone in this. For parts, to ask is to beg. For parts to ask is far too much cuz who the f do I think I am, I am bad. etc etc I think this would be tough for MANY and they would just suffer in silence.
> >
> > muffled
>
> Yes, it can be very hard to ask. Asking is being vulnerable. Not asking is being safe.
>
> Hmm, standing for election could be considered asking for votes/support/validation. So this might be one reason some posters don't feel safe doing that.*oh yeah, I am the queen of safe. And at this point being vulnerable here is not an option, at least for most of me.
> > it's not about refuting his decisions. It's about a blocked poster having a chance, after having been blocked, to demonstrate to council that they are willing to abide by civility guidelines.
> >
> > Solstice
>
> Just to be clear, I'd leave it up to the council to decide how to decide. I wouldn't say they needed to consider willingness to abide by the guidelines. But they'd be free to do that if they wanted.*OK, so to be REAL clear on this...You Bob, would allow decisions by council to STAND, you will NOT override them???? Promise?
> > All I recall Dr. Bob saying about minimums is that real parole boards base it on a percent of time served.
> >
> > Dinah* I for one would still like Bob to state an actual figure of what a minimum block would be. SIMPLE numbers, not formulas. This is a HUGE point for me.
> > are you encouraging them to be so careful that they just don't take the chance of finding out how it will be? ... at the very bottom of it is the fact that this is all volunteer. If it turns out to be impossible - if Council is mistreated to the point that it's unbearable - then they can quit!
> >
> > Solstice
>
> I'm not the only one who believes there might be anger at council members. I encourage posters to consider taking a chance, but with the awareness that that's what they'd be doing. Some posters are risk-averse, and I wouldn't want to mislead them.*I am a little vague about what exactly happened for the deps. I do remember there seemed to be almost a jealousy? or something at times.
From my experience with people in 'positions', that those who stand to run, they more than likely WILL be treated differently. However, I think there CAN be a balance if one is steady, and holds true to who they are. Not easy, but doable. It will be different, but thats not always a bad thing.> > I for one am not necc. happy to have th buck stop w/you...however, you ARE the owner of this site, and somehow, somewhere, I keep feeling that maybe you are not horrible..., so ya, ultimately the buck has yo stop w/someone, and obvo then that has to be you...
> >
> > Ya, heck I'd run for council.....IF I felt I could work with the operator of this site. But I can't, cuz I don't underasand him, and I don't agree w/how he is running things....so I cannot align myself with him unless I know he is willing to change some things I feel are off base(IMHO).
> >
> > So I suppose in my way, I am just as rigid as Bob, but I have reasoning behind my thots, and I know that many here agree with some of what I say.
> >
> > So, once again, this is nothing personal to you Bob, but about how this site is run. I too would like to see it be more successful.
> >
> > M
>
> Thanks, others may also consider me "maybe not horrible" enough to prefer the status quo. :-)*Bob, you are patient with me...
Anyways...ARE those who are 'in the know' in fact happy with the staus quo??? I would say the majority are not. In my experience at a municipal level, people generally don't have a clue wassup in the background, and there is only an upswell of interest when something affects them directly. Its a small percentage of people who are more politically oriented in caring about 'the whole'. The rest are happy in their worlds.
And yes, I would run, as I have skills that I feel would be useful. BUT, some things need to made more clear before I would consider running.
> The primary task of the council would be to give the community a way to override decisions of mine, so I'd hardly see them as "aligned" with me.*so sorry to harp....but so you ARE saying their decisioons would stand?
> But there would be some working with me. I'd confirm that they followed their procedures, and it would probably be up to me to actually unblock posters. Some conditions, like a mandatory civility buddy or delayed posting, would require new features that I'd need to implement.*ewwww, we'd have to work with Bob???oh GROOOSSSS! LOL kidding! I am getting punchy and need to get back to my kids but I am really trying to get thu this long post...
> Their secondary task would definitely involve dealing with me. I'd value their input even if we disagreed -- input doesn't help if someone always agrees with you -- so again, I wouldn't see them as "aligned" with me. But they should be aware that we might disagree and I might not to do what they advise. I'd also have reasoning behind my thoughts.*UH OH!!! Now I see. I did read this thru B4 I posted, but I missed this. Or maybe I didn't. This was a very long post. I guess what I'd like to know....is if FIVE council members disaggreed w/you, and they had good reasons...well....geeze Bob, given your previous history....oh man, this could be the shortest council in history.... :( Might be salvageable if you gave *clear* reasoning....
> I think most of us want this site to be more successful. I think a community council would be a step forward. If you do, too, I invite you to join me in being that change.
>
> Bob* well, I for one still need more info.
I just think if you Bob, make the effort to make some sticking opoints really clear before this council goes ahead, it stands a MUCH greater chance of actually succeeding long term.
I just feel that if you are going to do something, then get your ducks in a row as much as possible first.
I know you to be a cagey one Bob, but it would be most beneficial IMHO if you were more transparent about certain issues that have been brought up as concerns, but that you have, as usual, kinda circled around them...
You and I are not so different in that we both seem to want to reach a broad range of people. Up to this point Bob....your success has been limited. Numbers have declined. If in fact you want greater numbers, then you are going to have to accept the knowledge of others here...
Just a question for you...WHY do you personally want greater numbers here? HONESTLY.?Whew....
My thots..
Gotta go, now I got BOTH my kids hassling me, the boy for FOOD, my daughter for crafts....
M
poster:muffled
thread:964630
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/974210.html