Posted by wendy b. on June 26, 2002, at 0:32:04
In reply to Memorial (Re: sar thread...) » Dr. Bob, posted by JonW on June 24, 2002, at 20:44:44
Dear John,
Since you have come close to suicide yourself, I appreciate your views on the subject at hand. First, I'd like to talk about Kay Jameson, who brought the subject of bipolar disorder out in the open. __An Unquiet Mind__ was a very valuable contribution to current discussions and treatment of mental illness in general, and bipolar disorder in particular.
However, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Krazy Kat that Jameson has utilized her own illness in ways that I think are unsavory at times. Yes, I know she has won the MacArthur grant, and those ARE often very special, gifted people. It's on my list of things to do, applying for one next year. But MacArthur fellows aren't perfect, and they're not gods, and their theories may or may NOT stand the test of time.
> I don't know how to ask this question without seeming insensitive, but I'll try. Do you think a memorial for people who commit suicide is a good idea? Doesn't this glorify this type of thing and so it could result in other people doing it.I don't think this has been proven definitively AT ALL. There have been studies, yes, but no convincing conclusions have been drawn yet, IMO.
>Let me quote a section of Kay Jamison's book "Night Falls Fast" which references some guidlines developed by the CDC (I think) for the media when reporting suicides. Tell me what you think:OK, we're not a news or media organization here, we're a mental health board for support and education. We don't "broadcast" and affect the way millions of people understand suicide.
> "News coverage is less likely to contribute to suicide contagion (...)I absolutely HATE that term: suicide "contagion"! Like it's leprosy or something. Suicide isn't a skin disease, or HIV, or herpes! It isn't "catching"! Sorry, I really think Jameson (or whomever thought this up) is grasping at straws with that kind of terminology...
>when reports of community expressions of grief (e.g., public eulogies, flying flags at half-mast, and erecting permanent public memorials) are minimized. Such actions may contribute to suicide contagion by suggesting to susceptible persons that society is honoring the suicidal behavior of the deceased person, rather than mourning the person's death."Again: "suicide contagion" (sic).
OK, it MAY suggest to people who are susceptible that it's honoring the person, and it may NOT. One idea on that subject is as valid as another, in my experience. AND, to go a step further, maybe we ARE in the mood to have a memorial "honoring" Sar. I honor her every day by thinking of her and wincing at the loss and wishing she were here to brighten my life again, in the unique way that she had. Yeah, I don't think we shouldn't HONOR her. I think we should. And it wouldn't be for the way she died, it would be for the way she lived...
> Anyway, just something to consider... and please, I'm not trying to be insensitive to Sar's memory or anyone mourning her death. Actually, I'm raising a question that may be significant to susceptible people.As KK says, it wouldn't instigate a susceptible person any more than posts that say: "I'm thinking I'm close to killing myself," which we see quite commonly on the boards. And then discussion ensues that actively discourages the person, most times, from doing it. Acknowledging the fact of suicide is, to me, a more helpful way of dealing with the subject than hiding from it and pretending it doesn't exist. We show that's true here every day.
>There are several guidlines that may not be followed if people are allowed to freely post their thoughts about someone's suicide. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a memorial of some sort, but care should be taken to protect this community.
>
> Just a thought,
> Jon
As for "protecting the community," are the people who are susceptible to suicide a "protected" class of individuals here? (Yes, they're protected, in that we do try to help them in a time of crisis, but I'm making another point...) Are their INTERESTS more important? What about the interests of the people who are grieving Sar's death? Don't our feelings and thoughts on the matter count too? Not more than anyone else's, but not less either. I don't think we want to glorify suicide. But remembering and honoring the person could never be harmful to the P-Babble community, if it's handled with care and thoughtfulness.Lastly, I'd like to mention is that Sar didn't believe commiting suicide was a crime or a horrible act; she said that she felt it was a right that shouldn't be taken away from us. Who's to say that a person in terrible emotional pain might not be better off gone? We discussed this at length, more than once.
Maybe, in order to honor Sar appropriately, we'd have to contemplate these thoughts, rather than pretend they don't exist. Maybe we'd have to challenge the assumption that we all agree suicide is "wrong." Maybe she's in a better place, a place that she wanted to be? I don't know. But we did talk about the right to suicide, and it's in the archives if anyone wants to read a good summary of her thoughts on the topic... Interesting in this context.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010717/msgs/7857.html
All the best to everyone who's taking the time to write about this,
Wendy
poster:wendy b.
thread:5764
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5802.html