Posted by kingcolon on July 11, 2007, at 14:08:00
In reply to Re: Heroine as atnidepressant » Squiggles, posted by Babak on July 4, 2007, at 9:01:37
> That is very interesting, I use opium on and off for over ten years and then I wanted to come off it but I kept getting this stomuch pain which wouldn't go away even after a year without opium. Finally it turned out to be related to my depression and had nothing to do with opium withdrawal as I kept telling the doctors. An increase in my Effexor dosage stopped the pain but by then I was hooked on Subutex which was hell to kick. It took a month to come off subutex.
> It was while I was on subutex that I developed this severe anhedonia. So I ma just wondering may be this anhedonia is related to Subutex & opiods which is a common withdrawal symptoms with heroine addicts but in my case it doesn't go away, not even a year after I came of Subutex and stayed clean of all opiods.
> My fear is that opiods, subutex included has permenantly changed my brain chemistry. But is this possible? Is there any documented case or evidence of such permenant change?
> It is this adhedonia which is cripling.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on this?I'm using Subutex (buprenorphine) for the past 2 months for depression (history of abuse of opioids as well). Although I see you felt you worsened on BUP, there is nothing in the literature that I can find supporting that BUP worsens or causes depression. That said, it's use in depression is mostly anecdotal. There needs to be more studies. My own reaction is that it is the only medication I've had to date that really seems to have gotten to the bottom of my anhedonia (apart from my previously abused opioids). I'd be interested in what dose you used to take--tiny doses of about 1-2 mg are effective in depression, but larger doses are necessary in actively opioid users.
You say you were "hooked" on Subutex, but there is absolutely no evidence that, taken orally in appropriate doses, it produces addiction (it DOES cause dependency with withdrawal but this is not the same as addiction). There is no euphoria anything like other opioids with it, used this way. It works on other opiate receptors besides the mu receptor, namely, the kappa receptor, and this is actively being studied for depression (kappa antagonist). It would be a shame if you incorrectly concluded you got worse on Subutex if it was really the underlying depression. Perhaps a short course of Subutex again would be helpful to see if you have no effect--if it is going to work, you should know in a week or so.
poster:kingcolon
thread:767449
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070710/msgs/768980.html