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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 18:56:22
Hi everyone,
So glad I found this wonderful site. Boy, was I wrong about being the only one having intense feelings/transference for a therapist. I see myself in most of these posts and it's comforting to know that I'm not alone.
I would like to get some feedback/reality-check from you. I've been seeing my therapist for 6 months and we've had a deep connection from the start. I don't know how much of it is transference since we're very similar on an emotional/intellectual level. AND...we're also physically very attracted to each other. We have both said that we've never met anyone like each other.
I'm unhappily married and confused about boundaries. He is married(how happy I don't know) and very serious about keeping boundaries. However, he has broken some of his rules because "I'm an atypical patient whom he sees as an equal."
Here are some of what has transpired between us (in order):
- He has disclosed some personal things about who he really is at my insistance.
- Told me that I have no idea how much it hurts him to not be able to comfort me when I'm recounting my painful past.
- Told me he strictly follows rules and boundaries with other patients, and seems somewhat confused about not following his usual rules with me.
- I don't know how much of this is erotic transference, but we're both very turned on at times.
- I told him point blank that I wanted him and he said we would never be together and I would have to "put it out of my mind".
- We genuinely enjoy each other's company and he's said that I'm the only patient he looks forward to seeing.
- I thought about leaving therapy and he has begged me not to. He said losing me would put him in a deep state of depression and he very much cares about me and just can't bare losing me.
- I've been connecting with my teacher and he has shown "jealousy" by telling me that I'm in class to learn. (OK...I do connect with my teacher, but I was also testing my T.) Asked me to not talk to the teacher so much because it's not good for me. We didn't acknowledge this but, he actually had tears in his eyes and seemed genuinely surprised by his reaction to me.
- He has finally given me a quick hug after I asked him for it. However, I don't plan on asking much. I might be off but, I feel like he should just give me a hug because he wants to.
Well, it's almost as if we're a couple when we're together in his "therapy world-office". I've had a lot of dates and relationships in the past, but I'm completely blown away by him, and how compatible we are. We would definitely be together under different circumstances.
I'm completely obsessed by him, and now I believe he definitely has deep feelings for me. He is so warm and intimate in the way he talks to me but, I can see him struggling with his feelings for me and respecting boundaries/marriage. It surfaces at times by his inconsistant behavior as he struggles with guilt and fear.
I've seen 7 other therapists in the past and never felt anything like this. Not even close. On the practical side, he's opened me up like nobody else has and I feel comfortable analyzing myself because he understands me. I've never trusted or opened up to other therapists. He really is a good analyst.
I'm so confused! I don't know if he is my therapist, husband, or boyfriend, but I love him. I don't even know what kind of feedback I'm looking for...but, can someone with similar experience give me a reality check on what's happening to me? Thank you.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by Happyflower on April 6, 2008, at 19:40:35
In reply to Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my therapist, posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 18:56:22
Hi stellabystarlight,
Welcome to Babble, and yes you will others who have gone through some of the same things. Well I am one of them, I saw my T for 2 1/2, we had an incredible connection, and we were both attractive to each other. I am leaving a lot out, a lot is in the achives here of the last 3 years.He also had a hard time keeping the boundaries, I thought I was "special", I saw him outside of the office at the gym where he would snap towels at me, wink at me and always look at me. He also told me he wishes he could be social with me. It felt great at the time because I cared for him very much. But he struggled with those feelings for me and at times would put up and take away those boundaries, especially when I would out right ask him how he felt.
One time I asked him what he thought of me, and he just got really uncomfortable and told me he didn't care about me, he wouldn't attend my funeral if I died, and I forgot what else he said, but it hurt me so bad, I quit. Found another T who I am working with now for about 9 mo. now and my personal therapy has made a lot more progress in 6 mo. than in 2 1/2 years. Proabably because I am working on me instead of working out the hot and cold of my old T and me's relationship.For 6 mo. after leaving him, doing therapy because of him, I still feel hurt and angry about what he did. What is hard now, is that I still see him at the gym. Plus I see his wife and I am so tempted to tell her what a creep her husband is, but I don't. I also have some of the same friends that he does now. I didn't know they were even his friends until he told me.
I know it would be hard to do, but I would find another T. I don't like him telling you he will become depressed if you quit, that seems really selfish of him, you aren't supposed to be concerned with his needs. And I know it sounds cool that you are the only client he looks forward to, but do you really want to have a T who doesn't really like what he does? I know T's don't look forward to SOME clients, but not all their client except for one.
Please get away from him while you can, he is married and he is playing games with you. Take it from me, you will only get more hurt in the end. Here is a poem I wrote about it. Take care of youself.
Freudenstine's Eighth Floor PSYCHOtherapy
*
*
Nothing is the same now that its personal not professional.Denied feelings are as invasive as your golden trumpet vine
Growing insanely on your backyard pergola unstained.
Does she know what you think about when you water it?
Shared Super bowl birthdays, Sunburst racing, red tomatoes andWhipping out those orthotics while Grandma Moses looks away.
You burned for me Isnt Life Strange, why? BecauseFrozen gazes at the gym tell me what you want anyway.
Seducing me as you tell me you ate that chocolate vagina,Secretly mind f*ck*ng me while inside of her dreaming of
My steamy trumpet player red lips buzzing cure.
You tell me, what she doesnt know wont hurt her.
You try to hide your burning blush when IRemembered your birthday today.
But you used to be an admitted streaker,
You are not as opaque as you always say.
She doesnt care about the worlds largest music store.I bet shed care why you had the need to bring it up.
Does she know why her backyard blueberry bush
Bears more blueberries than before?
My life isnt one of your juggling balls on your shelf,My feelings are not yours to twist on your Rubik cube,
I am not another one of your jolly joy play toy,
I am not your new fountain of youth game.
My dedicated solo was a goodbye to you,Even if you didnt show, tough.
I wish I could hate you, times two.
I have trusted you enough.
This is no land of make believe.Remember the oath to do no harm?
Does that apply to your wife as well?
Oh, yeah, you did tell me you are a very good liar.
Posted by seldomseen on April 6, 2008, at 20:09:59
In reply to Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my therapist, posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 18:56:22
I'm so sorry that this is happening to you, but welcome to babble and thanks for sharing with us.
I think it's no wonder you are confused.
His statement " I thought about leaving therapy and he has begged me not to. He said losing me would put him in a deep state of depression and he very much cares about me and just can't bare losing me." comes very very close to malpractice in my opinion.
It's so hard though, it sounds like your T is saying all the things that most of us, at some point in our therapy, would have loved to hear, but what does your gut feeling tell you?
Are you comfortable when he says these things? Do you feel responsible for the way he feels?
Frankly, my gut tells me something is amiss here, but the question is "how do you feel about it?"
Once again welcome.
Seldom
Posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 20:59:39
In reply to Re: Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my thera, posted by Happyflower on April 6, 2008, at 19:40:35
Hi Happyflower,
Thank you for the very moving poem and your reply. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that with your old therapist. "One time I asked him what he thought of me, and he just got really uncomfortable and told me he didn't care about me, he wouldn't attend my funeral if I died, and I forgot what else he said, but it hurt me so bad, I quit"...Wow, I can't even imagine the amount of pain that you must have felt and feel now. God...I'm so scared that this is where I'm headed.
I know you're right deep down...I should find another therapist. The still sane side of me just don't see how any of this "mind blowing love/transference" is helping me in anyway. I just see pain for myself, but I know that it's going to be unbelievably difficult for myself to end it.
I'm somewhat of a love addict and I don't know how to end it unless I fall in love with someone else or he does something really stupid and cruel. I don't think my therapist would ever say "I wouldn't attend your funeral if you died", but he has denied or forgotten some of the emotionally charged things he's said to me. Which seemed really cowardly and turned me off, but I excused it as struggle with fear and guilt.
I'm going to think about what you said and try to really let it sink in. I had no idea that entering therapy with this man would be like entering a twilight zone.
Thank you for your letter. Take care of yourself.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 21:34:40
In reply to Re: Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my therapist, posted by seldomseen on April 6, 2008, at 20:09:59
Hi Seldom,
Thank you for your kind reply.
I don't know about his statement "losing you would put me in a deep state of depression and I care about you and just can't bare losing you" being close to malpractice since I don't understand or agree with all these rules and boundaries. However, I also thought that he was
being selfish and making me feel responsible for his feelings when I'm the one that's hurting.Yes, it is hard. On one hand, he does make me feel like he cares about me by what he says sometimes and bending his rules. He can be very warm and loving with his words, and the way he looks at me. On the other hand, my gut is telling me that this is all just heading down a very painful road for me. I'm a full blown love-addict(he doesn't know this about me yet, he just sees me as a very loving person), and it's going to be impossible to end it unless I fall in love someone else.
My gut also says that he is very drawn to me because we are EMOTIONALLY very compatible, and he is not getting his emotional needs met by his wife. He senses that I'm able to meet his needs because we're so much alike. When he got jealous over my teacher and teared up, he quietly said to himself "I don't have a say in this because I'm not able to give you what you want."
I didn't acknowledge it, but he was visibly very broken up over it. I really do belive he's developed deep feelings for me. But...I just don't see how someone like him(a boyscout type) would ever leave everything in his life to be with me. I know I would have a hard time leaving my life even though I'm unhappily married.
I do think he enjoys my attention and has said that he finds me facinating and stimulating. Nice...but 1 hour a week love affair? That I pay for? So painfully frustrating.
I have a lot of thinking to do. I'm just so glad that I found this site. Your words are very, very comforting to me. Thank you and take care.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2008, at 22:54:21
In reply to Thank you for the welcome... » seldomseen, posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 21:34:40
I also welcome you to babble and agree with above posters. I know it will be painful for you but him getting depressed???? If he was depreesed how could he help you. I firmly believe he is also verging on malpractice just my thoughts. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2008, at 8:49:41
In reply to Thank you for the welcome... » seldomseen, posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 21:34:40
From what you're saying he says, I feel pretty uncomfortable with his responses. It's nice to hear those things, but the rules are there for a reason. You're already seeing some of the negative affects that come from a therapist not holding the boundaries and keeping the therapeutic relationship secure.
You might want to see another therapist for a consultation. I'm not sure how old this one is, but perhaps he needs some supervision here.
I can understand if you aren't willing to leave him, at this point. But if you are going to continue to see him, you may wish to tell him what he doesn't yet know. That you see yourself as a love addict. Therapy doesn't work very well without a lot of painful honesty.
If it were me, I'd also add a bit of painful honesty about *him*. I'd say flat out that it is unfair of him to make you responsible for his feelings, as you described it so well. In fact I did at one point say something along the same lines. Not that my therapist has ever been in love with me. But a situation came up where he seemed to be asking my blessing to do something that would not be really good for me, and my response was along those lines. That he wasn't being fair to me. That the rules were there for a reason. And that he should take responsibility for his own decisions. My situation was an unusual one, and my therapist is not given to behaving this way. Nor is it the client's responsibility in any way to maintain the proper boundaries. But if you aren't ready to leave, and if you see that this is hurtful to you, the only course I can see under those circumstances is to start to draw some boundaries yourself.
Leaving his wife and being with you would mean his losing everything. His family, his home, and his practice and means of livelihood. It doesn't sound, from what you said, that he is the sort of man who is willing to do all that.
Posted by raisinb on April 7, 2008, at 13:26:17
In reply to Re: Thank you for the welcome... » stellabystarlight, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2008, at 8:49:41
Hi Stella, welcome. Sorry to come late to this thread, and I'm sorry you have to deal with something so difficult.
It ounds like you know that the therapy is not as helpful to you as it should be, and that it may be in fact harmful. But knowing that, I'm sure, doesn't make it easier for you to leave a person who is important to you.
I agree with other posters that your therapist does not seem to be handling the relationship well. I obviously wasn't in the room with you, but his comments sound like they compromise safe therapeutic boundaries. At the very least, they've made you uncomfortable enough to question the treatment, and to post here.
I'd make two suggestions--first, I echo Dinah that getting a consultation with another therapist is a good idea. If you don't want to do it in person, there is a therapist named Kali Munro who does online consults. She was very helpful to me at a time when I was struggling with my own therapist.
Second, I think you might ask your therapist whether *he* is in supervision or consults with someone about you. Given the circumstances, it sounds as though he might need to, and I also think that under these circumstances, you have a right to know. If he says that he is, it might reassure you that though he is not handling things well now, he may be able to deal with his feelings and recover. Therapists are imperfect. They make mistakes, and sometimes they fail to separate their needs from their clients'. This can be fatal, as many people on this board can tell you. If they correct themselves, though, it need not be, and the repair of the relationship can be even more therapeutic than a "perfect" one (which doesn't exist anyway) would have been in the first place.
But, if it does not seem as though your therapist is or can go through this process of self-examination and recovery, you might want to consider getting a new one.
Posted by raisinb on April 7, 2008, at 13:40:42
In reply to Re: Thank you for the welcome... » Dinah, posted by raisinb on April 7, 2008, at 13:26:17
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 8, 2008, at 8:52:29
In reply to Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my therapist, posted by stellabystarlight on April 6, 2008, at 18:56:22
I totally relate. I have been in love with my t for 5 years. I could write a book at what has gone on between us. I finally (after a year) told him of my feelings for him.
I am divorced (he is married; sez he is "in love with his wife), but what I know is that his behavior does not reflect his words.
He said: "If i were not married, i would probably go for it." We have had long, deep discussions about our feelings for each other. He says "as long as we talk about it, it isn't dangerous." Oh, yes it is!
I don't like the word "transference" to me it is the Freudian/technical term for feelings for people in the past, etc.
My t doesn't remind me of ANYone else. I would have fallen in love with him, had I met him anywhere else.
We are alike in 31 different ways; it is amazing. He knows...and I know.....our attraction is on "kill"...he said: "We are both very restrained people, and will have to keep on being that way."
It is excruciating not to have him. He said once a long time ago: "Isn't it enough that I love you?!"
He has said: "You are in my heart and in my head".>WE find it hard to end the sessions and WE find it hard to say goodbye." He said: "I am torn and confused, scared and conflicted."
He is the most fascinating, amazing man I've ever met in my life,and it is unbearable to be without him.
We just returned from the American Counseling Associaton's Convention In Hawaii....
HE was there alone and I was.......he shocked me by telling me that he was looking for me; he said if he saw me (stupid therapist rule), he wouldn't acknowledge me unless I said hello to him.
He said he saw me FIVE times, but didn't say anything; he thought I looked at him and looked down (he knew I was angry by something he had said previously).....arrrrghhhh
I am a member of a Yahoo group (for therapist/transference, etc., stuff): A Most Heartbreaking Love....it is called.
I read (and concur) that the therapy room is the only place we call LOVE by another name (transference).....I don't have transference.....I am in love with a man who has revealed himself personally to me....he knows....and I know......we are soulmates (hate that word, but it is true)...I could ramble for hours here, but will stop.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by stellabystarlight on April 8, 2008, at 15:22:52
In reply to Re: Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my thera, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 8, 2008, at 8:52:29
Hi Sassyfrancesca,
OMG...You've been in love with him for 5 years? How could you stand it for that long? I've only been seeing mine for 6 months and I was ready to throw myself at him at 3 months. I can't stand the pain anymore, so I've scheduled appointments with other counselors to somehow get myself out of this mess. He is driving me crazy with the back and forth.
Would you have an affair with him if he asked? What is holding him back from being with you when he is so vocal about his feelings for you?
Talk to you soon.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 9, 2008, at 15:38:08
In reply to Re: Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my thera » sassyfrancesca, posted by stellabystarlight on April 8, 2008, at 15:22:52
> Hi Sassyfrancesca,
>
> OMG...You've been in love with him for 5 years? How could you stand it for that long?I can't....my girlfriends are in awe of me (LOL, LOL)
I've only been seeing mine for 6 months and I was ready to throw myself at him at 3 months. I can't stand the pain anymore,
I know; I have had so many conversations about "us"--told him I would rather be in pain WITH him that in pain withOUT him.
so I've scheduled appointments with other counselors to somehow get myself out of this mess. He is driving me crazy with the back and forth.
I am living "back and forth"
I call it come here, go away...now I am professional, now I am not
He has gotten physical with me (no sex); wrestling, throwing on the couch (years ago)...he is as flirty and playful as I am.......
>
> Would you have an affair with him if he asked?In an instant, and he knows it; we have discussed it.
What is holding him back from being with you when he is so vocal about his feelings for you?
He is married (LOL)...he said: "If I were not married, I would probably go for it." He sexualized our relationship years ago (meaning innuendo, etc....but also touching).
>
> Talk to you soon.Okay, Stella!
Did I tell you we both went to the (American Counseling Association Convention in Hawaii?)....when I got back (1st appt. in 3 weeks), he almost "killed" me; told me he saw me FOUR times at the convention, but said nothing (the old stupid rule about not acknowledging a client unless they acknowledge you first).
He thought i looked right a him (not) and ignored him, because he knew I was angry with him for something he said a week before, and that I was "sending him a message."
He went to the dance fabulous hotel, etc.....(he had said he was NOT going), and said he was "looking for me." I was stunned; his ethics prevent him from saying hello, but he was looking for me and said "I would have danced with you."
HUH? Instead, he danced with another woman; I feel cheated, robbed and furious......he said: "I was alone in my hotel room, and you were alone in yours, and it was successful that we didn't hook up.......I was SO tempted to call him one night and just go to his room.
I could write a book at what has happened, and I don't know what keeps me from acting on my feelings...and I told him "fear of rejection.' I don't believe he would reject me.
Talk soon!
Hugs, Sassy
>
> Stellabystarlight
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 9, 2008, at 15:38:24
In reply to Re: Hi, I'm new here...and confused about my thera » sassyfrancesca, posted by stellabystarlight on April 8, 2008, at 15:22:52
> Hi Sassyfrancesca,
>
> OMG...You've been in love with him for 5 years? How could you stand it for that long?I can't....my girlfriends are in awe of me (LOL, LOL)
I've only been seeing mine for 6 months and I was ready to throw myself at him at 3 months. I can't stand the pain anymore,
I know; I have had so many conversations about "us"--told him I would rather be in pain WITH him that in pain withOUT him.
so I've scheduled appointments with other counselors to somehow get myself out of this mess. He is driving me crazy with the back and forth.
I am living "back and forth"
I call it come here, go away...now I am professional, now I am not
He has gotten physical with me (no sex); wrestling, throwing on the couch (years ago)...he is as flirty and playful as I am.......
>
> Would you have an affair with him if he asked?In an instant, and he knows it; we have discussed it.
What is holding him back from being with you when he is so vocal about his feelings for you?
He is married (LOL)...he said: "If I were not married, I would probably go for it." He sexualized our relationship years ago (meaning innuendo, etc....but also touching).
>
> Talk to you soon.Okay, Stella!
Did I tell you we both went to the (American Counseling Association Convention in Hawaii?)....when I got back (1st appt. in 3 weeks), he almost "killed" me; told me he saw me FOUR times at the convention, but said nothing (the old stupid rule about not acknowledging a client unless they acknowledge you first).
He thought i looked right a him (not) and ignored him, because he knew I was angry with him for something he said a week before, and that I was "sending him a message."
He went to the dance fabulous hotel, etc.....(he had said he was NOT going), and said he was "looking for me." I was stunned; his ethics prevent him from saying hello, but he was looking for me and said "I would have danced with you."
HUH? Instead, he danced with another woman; I feel cheated, robbed and furious......he said: "I was alone in my hotel room, and you were alone in yours, and it was successful that we didn't hook up.......I was SO tempted to call him one night and just go to his room.
I could write a book at what has happened, and I don't know what keeps me from acting on my feelings...and I told him "fear of rejection.' I don't believe he would reject me.
Talk soon!
Hugs, Sassy
>
> Stellabystarlight
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