![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
I'm still a fairly new member, but haven't checked in in at least a month. I am desperate.
The crushing, agonizing pain of depression...I can't get a reprieve. No one understands. Everyone means well...if I get a few moments of anxiety-induced "up-ness", they are satisfied & go away, thinking I am better. I'm not better. I've reached out all I can reach out.
I'm so alone. I made the mistake of saying "suicide" to a friend years ago, & got slapped with a seventy-two hour hold in a county mental health facility for the uninsured. I'll never forget that experience. That is NOT what I need.
I feel worthless, hopeless, depondent & panicked. I can't stop crying & feeling all this grief. No medicine ever works well enough, or long enough for me. Why am I here?
I just want it all to go away. I'm so unhappy...it permeates every cell of my being. It hurts so bad...
Can anyone share experiences? Can anyone help me stay alive?? Or tell me why I should?
Posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 11:31:01
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
(((kittencat)))
>Can anyone share experiences? Can anyone help me stay alive?? Or tell me why I should?I am alive and here to tell you that this depression will pass. You can get through this day. You must be kind to yourself today. I have had weeks of crying, feeling so worthless of love, feeling so lonely, my body was this enormous weight that I could hardly throw from one side of a room to another.
I am coming out into the light now. I can envision a future for myself that is worthy and full of love. I tell you - this will also be your experience.
For me, it's been years of trying different AD, then finally going to a p-doc and a T and now an additional T. Like my own personal fan club. You will feel better about yourself and your situation.
Stay on this earth.
Posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 11:33:50
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large... » kittencat, posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 11:31:01
I have been up since 5:30 this morning. Had a panic attack around noon, then started sweating from thinking too hard??? Couldn't really tell you. And yet, though today is pretty cr@ppy by anyone's standards, I know that I'm still getting better.
Posted by Sad Panda on July 17, 2004, at 11:51:05
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
Hi Kittencat,
Keep telling yourself it will pass & dead is an awfully long time. Did they give you any medication at the county mental health facility? What drugs have you tried?
I would skip over the SSRI's & try something like Amitriptyline.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by meds4life on July 17, 2004, at 12:44:04
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large... » kittencat, posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 11:31:01
Hi Kittencat and Partlycloudy,
Partlycloudy, we have talked before. I have a message directed to you a few threads up and anyone else who would like to check it out. I think another example of PDocs just pushing pills.
I hope you are doing okay. Take at easy today and be good to yourself. I always like a good book and a bath.Kittencat,
I can truly say I have been at the point where you are at. In fact, I wrote the note and took an overdose of Trazadone and Ambien. I still can't believe I ever got to that point. I was hospitalized, which turned out to be a good thing for me because I was finally able to get on a good anti-depressant and learned a lot about myself. I finally was prompted to see a therapist (I always believed I didn't have the time) Now I make the time because I need it for me. It's just a release to talk to someone about all your bad feeling without judgement. I remember when people told me I would feel better. I listened and said "mmm, hmmm" but did not believe or absorb that information. However, please believe that there is a chance you can feel better and suicide is the ultimate permanent solution. To say I am glad I did not succeed is a huge understatement. I would have left my beautiful son behind and he would have been hurt forever by a decision I made when I wasn't able to reason normally. I remember feeling like everyone would be better off without me, which now that I am out of the depression, I know is not true. Depression can do funky things to your thinking, especially in the feeling hopeful department. A lack of hope for the future is a symptom of depression and if you can get that treated somehow that hope can come back. I know it! I will stay on meds 4 life, hence my screen name, to avoid that pit again at all costs. If you have to, voluntary get into a hospital. It really helped me to be with other people suffering and to get my meds worked out. I also stayed in an outpatient program, which was nice for support out of the hospital environment. It's scary, but fascinating when you here other people's stories. Please keep posting if you need support, I'll keep reading and watching for your posts. Sorry for the length of post, I was hoping I might say something that will help. BTW-I have a new kitten who I adore. Did you pick your screen name because you love cats?
Posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 12:50:05
In reply to Pls read Kittencat and partlycloudy, posted by meds4life on July 17, 2004, at 12:44:04
Posted by meds4life on July 17, 2004, at 13:10:57
In reply to Pls read Kittencat and partlycloudy, posted by meds4life on July 17, 2004, at 12:44:04
I know you mentioned you had a bad experience in a county health facility for the uninsured, so my advice to go to a hospital might not be the best. However, if you are insured now some of them can be quite nice. And if you are not, I could have never paid the bill without insurance. They are quite expensive and you certainly don't need financial pressure too. It sounds like you could really use someone to talk to who won't admit you. Just keep posting if necessary. One of the most frustrating things when you are in the midst of depression is mentally normal people's lack of understanding. They really don't get it. They can't unless they've been through it. Until I suffered through my first episode, I didn't get it either. Take care. PS, sorry about my grammatical and spelling errors on the last post. I really am edumacated.
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2004, at 14:15:35
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
Hi.
> I'm still a fairly new member, but haven't checked in in at least a month. I am desperate.
It seems that you have plenty of friends here.
> The crushing, agonizing pain of depression...I can't get a reprieve.
I know.
Every now and then, lie back, close your eyes, clear your mind, think of nothing, and take a long deep breath in through your nose and let it out slowly through your mouth. Just for a few seconds, let there be quiet.
> No one understands.
I know. Well, almost no one.
> Everyone means well...
I know. Poor fools.
> if I get a few moments of anxiety-induced "up-ness", they are satisfied & go away, thinking I am better.
I know. Wishful thinking.
> I'm not better. I've reached out all I can reach out.
I know. Keep reaching, though.> I'm so alone.
No. You're not.
> I feel worthless, hopeless, depondent & panicked. I can't stop crying & feeling all this grief. No medicine ever works well enough, or long enough for me. Why am I here?
That is perhaps the greatest and least answerable question that a seeking mind can ever ask. You will probably find an answer that works for you eventually, but not in the state that you are in right now.
> I just want it all to go away. I'm so unhappy...it permeates every cell of my being. It hurts so bad...
I know. It can be intense and seemingly unending. The good news is that depression can usually be treated successfully. The bad news is that it can take quite a bit of trial and error. I'm afraid that you'll have to hold on for at least a little while longer. However, this worst of times will pass. You'll see.
> Can anyone share experiences?
I really don't have the mental energy to do much more than to write this short post.
> Can anyone help me stay alive??
Yes. You have to help us help you, though. You are doing a pretty good job of that here.
> Or tell me why I should?
You'll just have to trust me on this one. You'll know why when the time comes.
- Scott
Posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 16:14:47
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
I need you guys all, so bad. You are the only ones that understand. It was the biggest surprise, accident, & gift ever, stumbling upon this website a few months ago. Scott, I remember posting to you when you were feeling the same, & planning, not long ago, and I can't believe I ever felt that positive. But you stayed. How do we do it? How do any of us do it? My only comfort is knowing, now, that I am not the only one who suffers this intolerable pain.
I am alone. No one would be left floundering if I were to die. No kids, no relationship, nothing. When I saw responses to my post, it was like having my hand held. Some comfort. I'm so scared & desperate. Life hurts me intensely. It always has. It's like a constant scream in my head & heart, even when I appear silent.
I want out...but I'm scared of that, too...
Posted by Sebastian on July 17, 2004, at 17:33:42
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
The trick is to act real. Not withdraw. Expersion of feelings are always rewarded. It makes everyone feel better. you just can't panic. Panic is a natural response to real feelings. Even if its the result of feeling you set off. People don't know how to react and you get the wrong response back, makeing you insecure. Which is what created the whole thing. You just can't expect to go and anticipat the worst , or that IS what happens. Use reverse psychology on yourself!
Posted by karen m. on July 18, 2004, at 0:53:00
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by Sebastian on July 17, 2004, at 17:33:42
so many of us have felt what you are feeling. the dark hole. all you can do is try to remember the way it feels to drink in the smell of rain, the taste of a favorite food, a wonderful movie, the neverending potential that love is around the corner... and hope. if you can do this, then you can hold on until you get on meds that work and you won't have to work so hard to stay alive.
Posted by platinumbride on July 19, 2004, at 13:20:13
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by SLS on July 17, 2004, at 14:15:35
((((((((kittencat))))))
I think those of us who have been there, or are there now DO understand. I read your post and saw a lot of myself in it.
I was hospitalized 3 years ago after a suicide attempt. I had no insurance, and I had to declare bankruptcy when I got the bill. I didn't care. I figured I would be killing myself soon after that anyway.
But when I got a good med combo that gave me some remission time, I thought to myself that I have 2 minds - the regular mind and the suicidal mind. The suicidal mind sees suicide as the solution for every problem -either internal or external. The regular mind seeks solutions to problems. But when you are in suicide mind, that is where you are and the rest feels like BS. There is no bootstrap-pulling or anything that "normal" people tell you to do. (Please forgive my use of words like "normal"......it's just my own "language")
I guess what I am trying to say is that you seem to be in that "suicide mind". But when you are feeling a bit better, you are not in that mind and can see that suicide is scary.......and very very permanent.
I am not going to pretend that everything is just ducky in my life right now, but I would like to say that while I had that remission from the depression, I managed to pull myself together enough to do a lot of dating (which was not always fun) and was fortunate enough to meet a man who wanted to marry me. He didn't even change his mind when he saw my nutty mood swings and crying spells. We just celebrated a year of marriage last week.
I could go on and on about things that happened during various remissions that made me glad I hadn't killed myself, but I won't bore you with that. I will just submit that life is full of surprises - both bad and good.
Everyone here, as you know, has had their struggles with feeling lousy and wishing it were all over. Many of us have lived guided by the suicidal mind. I hope strongly that you will very soon find meds and/or a therapist who can help you get your "normal" mind back, and maybe even take you higher than you ever though possible.
Go into a dark room and cry when you need to, but don't imagine that you are alone and no one understands. We may not be near you physically, but we are in spirit. None of us wants this burden, but we have it. The best we can do is share and comfort each other.
Diane
Posted by ravenstorm on July 19, 2004, at 20:44:05
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by platinumbride on July 19, 2004, at 13:20:13
I know how you feel.
From November of last year until about April of this year I was suicidal. Every day I thought of killing myself. It was a continous and ever present thought. This all came about because of severe and protracted paxil withdrawal. The only other time in my life that I was suicidal was as a teenager and the feeling was always a transient flashpoint. This, however, was month upon month, day upon day, hour upon hour, minute upon minute absolute torture. No one I know can understand the devastation. I had a suicide kit, I wrote the suicide notes and I held the pills in my hand everyday. The only thing that kept me from doing it was the thought of my husband having to rip through the plastic over my face after he found me.
It is now July, I am on a medication that I have partially responded to. It has taken away the suicidal feelings, for which I am grateful, but I am not who I was. I am now trying to add another med and I am sick, again. I get sick from all of them when I start. But I at least have a toe hold into being ok. Yes, I still despair, sometimes daily, of ever being myself again, but it is not the same despair that I felt when I was suicidal. There is no way I could have thought or acted my way out of being suicidal. I prayed, I meditated, I exercised, I took supplements, I got massages, I got energy work, I got accupuncture. Nothing helped until I got on a med. And it is not the right med, so now I must push on and keep trying. It is not fun. It is hard. But most of all it is breathtakingly biochemical. I was in therapy the whole time I was suicidal and the therapist kept saying: "That is just depression talking, you have to change your thinking". She might as well have told me to fly to the moon.
Do I still think about suicide. Yes, in a philosophical way. In other words, sometimes as I struggle with what the hell med to try next, or feeling even worse on a new med than I felt before, I will think, well, geeze, maybe I would have been better off if I had just done it when I was suicidal. But it has no emotional grab on me and I don't really mean it. I don't feel suicidal anymore, I just feel really sad a lot.
Really sad isn't fun, but it is manageable. You will get out of suicidal. In fact, you may go all the way from suicidal to normally happy with no really sad inbetween. It all depends on the meds and the support.
It is amazing to me how bio-chemical suicidal ideation is.
DON'T GIVE UP. We are all here to do something. Sometimes its just to learn to live in a body on planet Earth. For some of us, thats a full time challenge!
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2004, at 21:46:29
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by ravenstorm on July 19, 2004, at 20:44:05
> It is amazing to me how bio-chemical suicidal ideation is.
Yes. You are absolutely right.
There is surely more than one path that can lead to suicide, but one of them is definitely neurobiological. It is most important for mental health professionals to acknowledge the fact that these neurobiological states can be induced artificially as adverse reactions to medication.
The link below provides a foundation for this view.
http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000185/Default.htm
- Scott
Posted by Camille Dumont on July 20, 2004, at 17:49:42
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 16:14:47
As others have said the whole "get your act together, its a question of willpower, you just want attention, etc ... IS TOTAL UTTER BULL!"
Your feelings are real, your pain is real and nobody can or should tell you otherwise. Nobody can really judge the extent of what you feel because ... well, they're not you. I think it is a first important step to acknowledge that YES you are in pain and YES you are depressed and that does not make you "crazy" or "bad" or "flawed" ... no more than having red hair or brown eyes. Its just part of who you are.
Not to say that it has to be a permanent thing either. Sometimes medications can give you the support you need until you find your footing again. Couseling (with a license psychologist ... beware shaddy "therapists" ... I've heard of downright dangerous "thereapy" from ppl who "improvise" themselves therapist) can be of great help in asking yourself the right questions and examining how you feel and what you feel and why you feel like that ... because it is much easier to try and find a solution when you know what the problem is in the first place.
That being said, this is not much help when the deep dark thoughts come looming. I don't have any secret or magic "reason for living" argument for you ... if I did, I wouldn't be on meds and / posting on this board for that matter.
But the one thing that has helped me is this ... I figured that ok, maybe I don't have a reason for living right now ... I don't like myself and I don't really seem to find any reason why I should keep going .. so I decided to "create" a reason for living for myself ... well not for myself really but for another being.
Its really simple : I got pets. Doesn't really matter what kind .. in one of my "good" moods I sort of suckered myself into getting pets ... so that when I feel bad, I do have this one super totally good argument why suicide is NOT a viable option: my pets depend on me .. if I am not there (I have norwegian rats btw) ... nobody will be there for them and being rats (i.e. unappealing to most people) they will most likely be put down or die between the time people realise that I'm "missing" and "find me".
I may not care about myself most of the time ... but I feel utterly totally bound by my pets. I chose them ... they depend on me ... and as their owner it is my utmost duty to see that they are taken care of. No matter how crappy I feel, no matter how depressed I am, I DO NOT let myself slip with my pets because they have nobody else to turn to and it would be betraying my commitment to them.
Therefore, I may not have a good reason to live but I do have one heck of a good reason not to kill myself. And its a really good "mental argument" when that little dark voice tries to tell me that it would just be easier to kill myself. I just tell it to "shut up, I don't care about that because death is NOT an option ... so leave me alone".
It is perhaps only a temporary solution to a more pemanent problem ... but often the suicidal thoughts ... I mean when the urges get really bad, will pass if you manage to take your mind off of them ... and what better way than to cuddle your cat, walk your dog ... or heck .. just bawls your eyes out at them ... they don't care ... they still love you ... they still see you as the most important person in their whole wide world and they don't mind listening to you whine and cry and bitch for hours on end ... they just want you to "be" there for them. And in return they give you all their time, all their love and all their attention.
I really hope you find a way to carry on ... posting here sure is a good start ... and don't hesitate .. post and post and post ... you'll always find people who can understand what you are going through.
Posted by papeeteebooh on July 21, 2004, at 14:24:29
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large... » kittencat, posted by partlycloudy on July 17, 2004, at 11:31:01
I have a long history of feeling suicidal and made an attempt at hanging myself while a teenager. I do agree with Diana'e description. I too, am a cyclical person with ups and downs. Unforunately, when I am down, I have a selective memory and only remember everything that goes bad. In these times, it feels like only suicide makes sense and the rest is BS. But it is not. It passes. I am still struggling with this despite being on a shitload of meds but I do know that there are times when things are really well. I live for those times.
Posted by temoigneur on July 22, 2004, at 23:46:50
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
> I'm still a fairly new member, but haven't checked in in at least a month. I am desperate.
>
> The crushing, agonizing pain of depression...I can't get a reprieve. No one understands. Everyone means well...if I get a few moments of anxiety-induced "up-ness", they are satisfied & go away, thinking I am better. I'm not better. I've reached out all I can reach out.
>
> I'm so alone. I made the mistake of saying "suicide" to a friend years ago, & got slapped with a seventy-two hour hold in a county mental health facility for the uninsured. I'll never forget that experience. That is NOT what I need.
>
> I feel worthless, hopeless, depondent & panicked. I can't stop crying & feeling all this grief. No medicine ever works well enough, or long enough for me. Why am I here?
>
> I just want it all to go away. I'm so unhappy...it permeates every cell of my being. It hurts so bad...
>
> Can anyone share experiences? Can anyone help me stay alive?? Or tell me why I should?Oh baby, life can be good, let me share something with you, I have severe Anxiety, for ten years I was suffering, I've been through everything, from therapist, neurologist, ...exorcists, I'm also gay, there I just came out, and I live in an extremely conservative community. The people here pronounce homosexuals as damned. And we moved here with my mother's dysfunctional family, my grandfather was a cruel jerk, who looked for opportunities to attack others with his sarcasm and make them stumble with his loaded questions..... but kitten, I found exactly what you said, I felt all alone, at time I was desperately fighting for a reason not to kill myself, I could go into more detail, but I want to tell you that I have finally come upon an effective combination of med's and I can start putting my life together. and things are only getting better, it's like, health is beyond the sick person's comprehension, the two minds don't understand eachother, but people remember, I remeber, and I obviously don't know what you're going through, but hang in there, it can get better, there are so many advances in medicine, unfortunately psychiatry hasn't seemed to evolve at the same rate other medical disciplines have, but it is evolving rapidly all the same. A professor at a college, I was given this quote second hand, so I don't even know what he taught, but he made the ambitious statement that mental heath problems as we know them, won't exist ten years from now, what I'm going to do is give you the address of a beautiful lady in Toronto, she suffered horribly with depression, and anxiety, she wanted to die, but somehow she overcame it, just a minute, here name is Earla, she runs a support group now, she said she used to be her psychiatrist worst patient, now she's his best, there are wonders, here and now for some, here email dunBarLamont@aol.com hang in there, you're too beautiful to leave, this world needs you:)
Ben
Posted by platinumbride on July 22, 2004, at 23:52:43
In reply to Suicide looming large..., posted by kittencat on July 17, 2004, at 11:11:32
Posted by woolav on July 23, 2004, at 13:42:52
In reply to kitten, how are you feeling? (nm), posted by platinumbride on July 22, 2004, at 23:52:43
Just wanted to say suicide isnt the way out. It just hurts those around you that love you. And whether you believe or not, they do. I know what you mean about ppl not understanding how you feel. No one can that doesnt have major depression. I have tried so many drugs and they all stop working, but i am trying again. Now, with Prozac. I heard it works long term (i know ppl that have taken it for 10 years) So, its my little glimmer of hope. Keep trying, you will find something that will work. But never give up.
S
Posted by kittencat on July 24, 2004, at 3:01:06
In reply to kitten, how are you feeling? (nm), posted by platinumbride on July 22, 2004, at 23:52:43
Posted by platinumbride on July 24, 2004, at 12:44:12
In reply to Hanging by a thread... (nm), posted by kittencat on July 24, 2004, at 3:01:06
Keep posting when you feel up to it and remember that ppl really care.
Warm hugs,
Diane
Posted by ravenstorm on July 24, 2004, at 16:03:18
In reply to Re: Hanging by a thread..., posted by platinumbride on July 24, 2004, at 12:44:12
Yes, do post more if you feel well enough. In the worst of it this winter I couldn't reach out at all. It is a testament to your strength over this disease that you were able to.
I finally had to ask my husband to contact some friends from a healing circle I belonged to, because I didn't even have the energy to pick up the phone. They set up a series of times that different people would come just to be with me. I would just cry and cry and cry. There wasn't really anything they could do, and I was so embarrassed to be in the condition I was in, but they really saved my life. They didn't make the depression/anxiety any better, but once more people were involved, I felt I really couldn't kill myself anymore. It felt like I would be letting them down/ripping apart their lives if I committed suicide. Co-dependent? You bet. Did it keep me on this Earth? Yep.
Oddly enough, several years ago, one of the women who came to be with me had cancer, and I was one of the people that came to help her. When I would feel bad about them spending all this time on me, and me not really getting much better, she would remind me that I did the same for her, and at the time no one expected her to live either.
If you don't have the energy to reach out to people, just reach out to one and then have that one coordinate whatever help you need with others.
One of these women even had to come and do laundry for me, because I couldn't even do that! (And my husband wasn't being helpful in the least) I am one of the most independent people I know and that was hard for me at first. This disease can be very humbling. The fact that these women saw me like this and still loved me unconditionally humbles me more, though. Amazing.
Let people care for you. You deserve to be loved and cared for. Someday when you are well, you can return the favor.
We are all here for you.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2004, at 13:46:41
In reply to Re: Suicide looming large..., posted by papeeteebooh on July 21, 2004, at 14:24:29
> I am still struggling with this despite being on a sh[*]tload of meds...
I'm sorry that you're struggling, but please don't use language that could offend others.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.