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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 16:16:58
... am having real trouble again in marriage like last April. Unfortunately, someone I met inadvertantly is very, very distantly involved.
I can't sort my feelings out but I know I'd like some time alone to do so. Risks ruining the marriage... makes me a bad person... it's just not healthy and it was supposed to change...
I know, I know counseling.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 18:49:10
In reply to How many times can you fall in love?, posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 16:16:58
I'm on the verge of seeing this man again, just to "talk". I know it's wrong - like stealing is wrong, and all those good morals/ethics. But life is so wrong right now, and it feels like it has been for 9-1/2 years.
Posted by tina on November 5, 2001, at 19:17:23
In reply to Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 18:49:10
> I'm on the verge of seeing this man again, just to "talk". I know it's wrong - like stealing is wrong, and all those good morals/ethics. But life is so wrong right now, and it feels like it has been for 9-1/2 years.
Oh KK, this is a BIG problem. I have been there. I really have.
Every marriage is different so my advice is see a councellor about the 'wrong' feelings before things get so messed up you can't fix it. If you really are unhappy in the marriage and it's not just the depression and/or mental illness coloring your feelings, then be honest with your spouse. Don't go behind his back, please. It's not respecting yourself or him or this other man. You really need to think about the reasons that you NEED to see this other man and what he really has that you want that you can't get from your husband.
I am willing to talk about this off the board if you like. I do know what you're feeling. I went through exactly the same thing not too long ago.
Just let me know if you want to talk.
Think ALOT before doing something though, OK?Tina
Posted by Mark H. on November 5, 2001, at 19:18:26
In reply to Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 18:49:10
If you've ever been addicted to something and were able to give it up (smoking, for instance), then you already have the skills necessary for breaking off an inappropriate relationship, especially if you can see the similarities in their effect on your thinking and feelings. In the circumstances you describe, "just talking" is like "just having one more cigarette." Neither helps when it's time to move on.
Letting go is painful for awhile, and many people find they need to concentrate on getting through one day at a time (or one hour, or one night). It helps if you treat yourself respectfully and gently, as a person who needs a little extra nourishment and tender loving care at this time. Taking walks or getting other physical exercise helps. Seeking out ways to help others is good too. Hold out for something better. You have to choose to have faith in yourself and in the unknowable future.
You can do it!
Respectfully,
Mark H.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 19:23:08
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by tina on November 5, 2001, at 19:17:23
Thanks, Tina. I will think a lot about it. I may bug you offline.
I think the reason it's scary is my meds Are finally working, in general, and it doesn't seem any better. In fact, it's worse.
Based on a very unhealthy attraction to start...
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 19:26:15
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Mark H. on November 5, 2001, at 19:18:26
> Thanks for the other side, Mark.
I just feel as if it's been too long, these thoughts are constant now, and in fact I'm starting to see him as a somewhat repehensible person at times (and what will I be, if I ask for a separation?).
Posted by tina on November 5, 2001, at 22:37:47
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Mark H. on November 5, 2001, at 19:18:26
> If you've ever been addicted to something and were able to give it up (smoking, for instance), then you already have the skills necessary for breaking off an inappropriate relationship, especially if you can see the similarities in their effect on your thinking and feelings. In the circumstances you describe, "just talking" is like "just having one more cigarette." Neither helps when it's time to move on.
>
> Letting go is painful for awhile, and many people find they need to concentrate on getting through one day at a time (or one hour, or one night). It helps if you treat yourself respectfully and gently, as a person who needs a little extra nourishment and tender loving care at this time. Taking walks or getting other physical exercise helps. Seeking out ways to help others is good too. Hold out for something better. You have to choose to have faith in yourself and in the unknowable future.
>
> You can do it!
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Mark H.Wow Mark. Really insightful. I just wish your approach worked. I know what it's like to quit smoking but walking away from a relationship with a person you are obsessed with is nearly impossible. I know. I continue these kinds of relationships even though they threaten my own stability and sanity sometimes. Oh I would justify my behavior in a thousand different ways telling myself it's ok, I can handle it, it's no big deal but I knew it was a bad sign when I started hiding it from my husband, family and friends. I think an obsession with a person is extremely hard to overcome if indeed one can overcome it at all. It's too bad there's no Betty Ford Clinic for People Obsession........
Posted by Greg A. on November 6, 2001, at 10:07:13
In reply to How many times can you fall in love?, posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 16:16:58
K.
Just a quick note as I have to rush off. I didn't read your post yesterday so I was unaware that there was 'another' involved.
Take that step very cautiously. I met a younger woman, in trouble with her husband, who looked to me for advice. I wanted to give a whole lot more than that! I saw in her all the answers to my problems. I could talk to her. She was beautiful. You get the idea. (don't say mid life crisis please!) After a couple of years of torture, I woke up and saw what was really there. Not much.
I know I said in my other post that we all deserve happiness. We do, but we need to watch out where we look for it, and make sure we end up with the right prescription.Talk to you later,
Greg
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2001, at 10:49:03
In reply to Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 18:49:10
For what it's worth, I think it's important to separate the two issues. You are unhappy in your marriage. You are attracted to someone else. It would be impossible to work on both problems at once. How would you know how much of the unhappiness is caused by the attraction or how much the attraction is caused by the unhappiness. It's like buying a new car. You are supposed to negotiate a price and then talk about a trade in.
If you want to decide to evaluate your marriage, do that. Somehow, unhealthy obsessive relationships (if I read what you are saying correctly) always manage to be around later.
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 6, 2001, at 20:56:09
In reply to How many times can you fall in love?, posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 16:16:58
> ... am having real trouble again in marriage like last April. Unfortunately, someone I met inadvertantly is very, very distantly involved.
>
> I can't sort my feelings out but I know I'd like some time alone to do so. Risks ruining the marriage... makes me a bad person... it's just not healthy and it was supposed to change...
>
> I know, I know counseling.
>
> - K.Dear K.,
Do you have children?
Glenn
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 11:01:22
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love?, posted by Greg A. on November 6, 2001, at 10:07:13
Greg:
Thanks for the post. You're of course, right. I've come to my senses. Now that we have talked and are going to talk with someone else, the "other" couldn't seem farther away.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 11:03:06
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Krazy Kat , posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 6, 2001, at 20:56:09
Glenn:
Hello there. We don't have children which, in a way, makes it more difficult to stay together I think. But parents on the board may completely disagree with me.
We're going to counseling, so I think things will be better.
Thanks.
- K.
Posted by Greg on November 9, 2001, at 11:25:10
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Glenn Fagelson, posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 11:03:06
> Glenn:
>
> Hello there. We don't have children which, in a way, makes it more difficult to stay together I think. But parents on the board may completely disagree with me.
>
> We're going to counseling, so I think things will be better.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - K.Kat,
My first wife and I stayed together for a year longer than we should have for the sake of our daughter. In that year all she saw us do was argue and fight. It made her miserable. It wasn't a good reason to stay together.
I hope that things work out for you and your hubby the way they are meant to. And remember, you deserve to be happy.
Greg
Posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 12:39:13
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Krazy Kat , posted by Greg on November 9, 2001, at 11:25:10
Arrrghhhhhh!!!!!
I'm going to have to out my 4 cents in Kat.OK. First, after reading the other posts, I still sense a lot of mixed feelings. To answer your initial question "How many times can you fall in love"? The answer is: as many times as you DO!
I can honestly tell you, I still have feelings of "love" for girls I was with 20 years ago! There is no conflict for having feelings like these. The conflict arises when you ACT UPON them. You made a choice to marry your current spouse. Now, the secularists will say that you have the same choice to be "unmarried", as half of all married people, have chosen to do. I don't agree. That is like buying a food item, taking a taste, deciding you don't like it, and putting it back on the shelf. There's no honor in that. Now, the divorce rate for Christians is about the same as non-Christians,so I won't get all religious on you about what is "morally right". I do believe, however, that you do not know where you will be in life in 10 years, nor how you will feel about the people in your life. Are you going to put this marriage back on the shelf? We, as a culture, want the easy way out. We want it OUR way. But life is not that way! We have choices, sure, but mostly life HAPPENS to us, and we choose how to deal with it. What makes you a stronger person, facing a fear (or a marital problem) or running away from it? How is pure gold refined? It is made pure by burning away the impurities again and again until only the base metal remains. It is not a simple or easy or quick method. Neither is having a successful marriage. Now, you might ask what do I know about marriage problems.....which chapter do you want to hear first? Am I perfectly happy? NO! Do I have some devine RIGHT to be happy in life? NO!
Nothing worth having in life comes at a cheap price, or in other words, you get what you pay for. Do investors pull all their assets out of the market at the first hint of a downturn ?, or do they wait it out, knowing that in the long run, the investment will pay off...with interest.I may be totally against the feel-good be happy mentality of today, and I am clearly not trying to judge you (by any means)but you DID ask for input. You have read my posts before. You need to decide if my advice is of merit. I say, find a way to make the marriage work out, even if it means that YOU have to do most of the changing. The only exception I would say requires deeper consideration is a marriage that has physical violence involved in the mix. THAT will require an outside professional's intervention to resolve.
PAX
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 15:10:59
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love?, posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 12:39:13
Pax:
Thanks for the input. I agree with most of what you say, except the last few sentences. This may be because I am not religious at this juncture of my life - I don't know.
A marriage has to work for both people, imo. If we went by the concept of "even if it means that YOU have to do most of the changing", then women would Really lose out. I say this because I believe it is more difficult for women to be "selfish" and retain their own identities.
Other forms of abuse, such as verbal and even sexual, can occur in a marriage. It seems naive to me to assume that all men would treat their wives as you do, or vice versa.
I am certainly in agreement re: the need for commitment, the need to work on a marriage rather than casually throwing it away. When we married, we both agreed that that was our intention.
But, please keep in mind, that we have been married for over 9 years, and many of those years have been bad. We must find a way to almost start anew, and to break these bad habits that keep popping up.
I certainly don't feel any Right to happiness. I don't think any depressive or manic depressive would fool themselves that it is that simple. But I do have a right to a respectful and loving marriage.
- K.
Posted by Jane D on November 9, 2001, at 17:10:49
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love?, posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 12:39:13
>decide if my advice is of merit. I say, find a way to make the marriage work out, even if it means that YOU have to do most of the changing. The only exception I would say requires deeper consideration is a marriage that has physical violence involved in the mix. THAT will require an outside professional's intervention to resolve.
>
> PAXLike the intervention of whatever professional is required to finalize the divorce! Physical violence is never acceptable. - Jane
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2001, at 17:53:45
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » paxvox, posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 15:10:59
I'm really glad you and your husband were able to talk. Marriage is such hard work and periodic major maintenance is definitely necessary. But at least both of you are willing to try.
Good luck with the counseling.
Posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 20:09:55
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » paxvox, posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 15:10:59
Kat, I hope you didn't take any of my commentary as a personal affront or assesment of your marriage, it was just a vent on the casuality a lot of people have taken to THAT commitment, as well as many others! We have become too much a disposable society. Example: a gerneration ago, granparents were part of the extended nuclear family, and as such, took an active role in inculcating positive values to the kids. Now, we chuck our parents into "retirement" homes for them to rot. To quote someone (Ican't remember who) "The older I get, the smarter I realize my father was."
Anyway, I hope you can make a go of it. I acknowledge there are some "no win" scenarios where one must decide on a lesser of two evils.
PAX
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 9, 2001, at 22:16:31
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Glenn Fagelson, posted by Krazy Kat on November 9, 2001, at 11:03:06
> Glenn:
>
> Hello there. We don't have children which, in a way, makes it more difficult to stay together I think. But parents on the board may completely disagree with me.
>
> We're going to counseling, so I think things will be better.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - K.Good, I hope things will be better for you!!
Glenn
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 10, 2001, at 10:30:17
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Krazy Kat , posted by paxvox on November 9, 2001, at 20:09:55
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 10, 2001, at 10:32:06
In reply to Re: How many times can you fall in love? » Krazy Kat , posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 9, 2001, at 22:16:31
How wonderful to get some different perspectives.
I'll let you all know what happens when we meet with the priest. It will be interesting no matter what. :)
Posted by Adam on November 12, 2001, at 11:10:54
In reply to Please married/committed folk help! :), posted by Krazy Kat on November 5, 2001, at 18:49:10
Been there (not with a man, but you know what I mean.) In fact, I was faced with a rather minor version of such an issue just last summer.
All I can say is, if it feels both seductive and wrong, it probably is exactly those things, and no matter how drawn you are, it's likely to spell trouble unless you distance yourself for a while and get some perspective. Just cool your jets. Don't see this person for a while. It may be really, really hard, but just don't pick up the phone, don't drive by their place, don't sit around by yourself dwelling on it. Talk about it, like you seem to be poised to do, with a clergyman, therapist, friend, whatever, but limit your actions to that: Talk. After a while, you may find emotions that felt urgent and compelling are not so much anymore, and chances are you will approach the problem with a clearer head, and more confidence about whatever it is you decide to do.
> I'm on the verge of seeing this man again, just to "talk". I know it's wrong - like stealing is wrong, and all those good morals/ethics. But life is so wrong right now, and it feels like it has been for 9-1/2 years.
Posted by Kristi on November 13, 2001, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! :) » Krazy Kat , posted by Adam on November 12, 2001, at 11:10:54
Hi......
It's been a while. Just wondering and thinking about you. Everything pretty much the same?
Hoping your feeling a little better about things,
Kristi
> Been there (not with a man, but you know what I mean.) In fact, I was faced with a rather minor version of such an issue just last summer.
>
> All I can say is, if it feels both seductive and wrong, it probably is exactly those things, and no matter how drawn you are, it's likely to spell trouble unless you distance yourself for a while and get some perspective. Just cool your jets. Don't see this person for a while. It may be really, really hard, but just don't pick up the phone, don't drive by their place, don't sit around by yourself dwelling on it. Talk about it, like you seem to be poised to do, with a clergyman, therapist, friend, whatever, but limit your actions to that: Talk. After a while, you may find emotions that felt urgent and compelling are not so much anymore, and chances are you will approach the problem with a clearer head, and more confidence about whatever it is you decide to do.
>
> > I'm on the verge of seeing this man again, just to "talk". I know it's wrong - like stealing is wrong, and all those good morals/ethics. But life is so wrong right now, and it feels like it has been for 9-1/2 years.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 14, 2001, at 11:58:15
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! -kk, posted by Kristi on November 13, 2001, at 0:55:33
Kristi:
Thanks for the note! I am feeling better about things. We talk to someone next Monday (I had the day wrong).
Have had some horrible flu so haven't been posting as much.
How are you feeling?
- K.
Posted by Kristi on November 14, 2001, at 12:25:30
In reply to Re: Please married/committed folk help! -kk » Kristi, posted by Krazy Kat on November 14, 2001, at 11:58:15
> Kristi:
>
> Thanks for the note! I am feeling better about things. We talk to someone next Monday (I had the day wrong).
>
GREAT..... that's the best thing to do.
> Have had some horrible flu so haven't been posting as much.I'm so sorry. Drink plenty of liquids and get lots of rest. :-) What else to say? :-) Get better!
> How are you feeling?
>Not so great myself...... but thank you for caring. I am in the initial stage of being tested for Hodgkin's. But ... other than that, since my last surgery..... things are well. Taking it one day at a time!
Please take care of yourself..... and keep me updated. I may not have communicated directly to you a lot... but I do feel I know you from "lurching" :-) Kristi
> - K.
This is the end of the thread.
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